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i say swears online posted:hopefully just followers, 20k subs on twitch is like in the top 50 biggest That's his YouTube but yeah, I think it's followers on twitch. My mind just used the same word.
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Feb 9, 2023 03:48
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tipping my replica wehrmacht cap to my audience of 20k as they hoot and holler for me to load up the "big titty hitler" mod
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Feb 9, 2023 03:49
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Mister Bates posted:On the Western Front remains the best WW1 strategy game I have ever played, although it is also a borderline incomprehensible nightmare in which your main enemy is not the Bosch but the interface This is the sorrow and the pity of all very good strategy games. The Verdun scenario as France is incredible, truly.
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Feb 9, 2023 04:05
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I was playing Silent Victory the other night, a single player game of US submarine warfare against Japan. Between April or 42 and September or 44 my Gato class boat managed to sink 207,200 tons of Japanese shipping, including the Battleship Heibei. Unfortunately in September of 44 I was sunk after wandering into a minefield off of Japan. Such was the fate of the USS Hellfish
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Feb 9, 2023 04:25
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It really doesn't look like much, but this is one of the best gaming experiences I've had and gets a lot of the details right in a way that's incredibly engaging.  KomradeX posted:I was playing Silent Victory the other night, a single player game of US submarine warfare against Japan. Between April or 42 and September or 44 my Gato class boat managed to sink 207,200 tons of Japanese shipping, including the Battleship Heibei. Unfortunately in September of 44 I was sunk after wandering into a minefield off of Japan. Such was the fate of the USS Hellfish You might be the only person I've ever encountered who might be interested, but I've fallen in love with Beneath the Med, the sequel in the titular setting about the Regia Marina. It's such a big change from The Hunters, The Hunted and Silent Victory. It set me on a tear researching the Italian sub force, and yes, they really did have 23 different types of torpedo in service. I've been thinking about starting another game, though 207k is so far beyond what's possible there I'll have to adjust my goals. Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 04:49 on Feb 9, 2023 |
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Feb 9, 2023 04:46
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Frosted Flake posted:You might be the only person I've ever encountered who might be interested, but I've fallen in love with Beneath the Med, the sequel in the titular setting about the Regia Marina. It's such a big change from The Hunters, The Hunted and Silent Victory. It set me on a tear researching the Italian sub force, and yes, they really did have 23 different types of torpedo in service. I've been thinking about starting another game, though 207k is so far beyond what's possible there I'll have to adjust my goals. Funny you mention Beneath the Med, I do have a copy of that and was actually thinking of taking that for a spin next. Jesus 23 types of torpedoes. I wouldn't want to be an Italian quartermaster
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Feb 9, 2023 05:00
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lol I've seen this guy's videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMB6DYaJqqQ
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Feb 9, 2023 05:04
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My only ever tabletop wargaming experience (not counting playing Risk as a kid) was Trin Tragula's WW1 game, in all its goony glory. I don't remember what system it was based on.
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Feb 9, 2023 07:26
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:lol I've seen this guy's videos he's 16. is that just some weird rear end promotion thing or did they ender's game him
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Feb 9, 2023 07:33
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my dad posted:My only ever tabletop wargaming experience (not counting playing Risk as a kid) was Trin Tragula's WW1 game, in all its goony glory. I don't remember what system it was based on. I was in that game! I'm sorry that your first wargaming experience was field marshaling a bunch of barely competent goons.
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Feb 9, 2023 09:09
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Listening to Hell on Earth got me to go in on the P500 of that strategic level 30 years War game GMT is working on
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Feb 9, 2023 09:14
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KomradeX posted:I was playing Silent Victory the other night, a single player game of US submarine warfare against Japan. Between April or 42 and September or 44 my Gato class boat managed to sink 207,200 tons of Japanese shipping, including the Battleship Heibei. Unfortunately in September of 44 I was sunk after wandering into a minefield off of Japan. Such was the fate of the USS Hellfish
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Feb 9, 2023 09:31
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Tekopo posted:I love those games, I have The Hunters, Silent Victory and Beneath the Med. I ran a whole bunch of missions in an LP once for The Hunters, it was good fun but got repetitive by the end. I tried with Silent Victory as well but the narratives weren't as compelling. I found the self narrative pretty compelling, especially the desperation I would start to feel as I went through a mission without finding any targets but suddenly coming up on a few in the last box or an unlucky merchant in one of the transit boxes would be a huge relief. But drat do American torpedos suck for so much in that game. I alost exclusive enganged at medium range and at night and using anything but the steam torpedoes was a no go
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Feb 9, 2023 15:10
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Silent Hunter 4 let you "cheat" by letting the fleet boats fire the Mark 10 torps - they still ran deep, but at least they didn't detonate prematurely or had dud detonators
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Feb 9, 2023 15:19
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should have included circular runs for added spiciness
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Feb 9, 2023 15:21
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Tekopo posted:should have included circular runs for added spiciness I think I remember this actually being possible in SH4 but I might be just making it up with years of distance.
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Feb 9, 2023 15:22
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Silent Hunter 4 with the recent mods is worth revisiting IMO. The latest Fleet Boat mod (FOTRSU) and U-Boat conversion mods (KSDII, Dark Waters) are very good sub sims and bring the game up almost to modern levels. I wish people were doing this kind of work in U-Boat, because they have everything from Type IIs to IXs in the ETO and then really good simulations of S-Boats through the latest fleet boats in the PTO, pushing the old engine and lack of support from Ubisoft as far as it can go. More relevant to the thread, they simulate the many problems the Germans had with their torpedoes and detonators as well. Beneath the Med, to me, has the most gripping narrative because it's all new to me. I didn't, still don't really, know anything about the Italian boats, their capabilities, tactics, the ASW they faced. I do know from aforementioned mods, SH5, U-Boat, the Hunted lol that the Med was a death trap for U-Boats, and the Italian boats were often even bigger. As I said I don't have a game going right now but I want to hunt down the book on Regia Marina subs the designer mentions in the notes. e: SH4, SH5 and U-Boat all have circular running torpedoes, but - as in reality - it's a less than 1 in 100 error. Gyroscopes were just pretty good by 1940. There are far more issues with depth settings and detonators, which was the case. I'm always torn between the immersiveness of U-Boat and even SH-5 and the better, more detailed, simulation and crew management (even if its a pain in the rear end and they have no personality) in 4. The levels of immersion, crew personalities, things to look at, moving around the sub, in the newer titles give you more to do on patrol though, rather than plotting a zig zag, accelerating time and reading a book while you wait to spot something. Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 15:28 on Feb 9, 2023 |
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Feb 9, 2023 15:25
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beneath the med also has rules for Maiale missions: I remember going to the naval museum in Venice and a Maiale being the first thing you see when you step in edit: maiale means pig in italian
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Feb 9, 2023 15:27
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Tekopo posted:beneath the med also has rules for Maiale missions: I remember going to the naval museum in Venice and a Maiale being the first thing you see when you step in lol that the British named their copy Chariot and the Italians were much more frank about what the deal was. e: Also a bit of trivia, the first Italian submarine after the war was a US Fleet Boat that was classified as a dockyard generator or something to get around treaty limitations imposed on Italy. The US and Italians went to some pretty funny lengths to keep the charade going too. There was a great article about it on one of the now-defunct Harpoon Database Encyclopedia websites. If it helps, it was hosted on whatever site also had the only decent article on Malafon, the Cold War French anti-submarine "missile" that suspiciously resembled a torpedo with wings.    (CMO doesn't allow it as an anti-surface weapon so I really need to hunt down that article, which says it was possible) Anyways, it was a great read up on the emergence of the post-war Italian submarine force.
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Feb 9, 2023 15:34
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:I was in that game! I'm sorry that your first wargaming experience was field marshaling a bunch of barely competent goons. (check your PMs, I think I sent you relevant one a while ago) For those interested, here's a link to the observer thread for the game, you can follow other links from there if you want to. It was a fun game! No need to feel sorry, heh. Herding 20-ish goons around against 20-ish other goons was an interesting experience. Ironically, I think my lack of experience with wargames genuinely helped me there, lol, since I approached it less as a "I'm the brilliant mind in charge of the grand battleplan" thing and more of a "I'm a glorified middle manager pretending to know what he's doing, trying to keep the guys under me who do know what they're doing pointed in the general direction of the orders from above (AKA mission objectives)". More of my effort was dedicated to keeping people on the same track, keeping their plans from having too many moving parts, and maintaining morale, rather than looking at the map, and for the most part with better results than had I done differently. The best orders in the world don't matter if they're not actually executed. Relations with my division commanders were tense at first, and I was genuinely worried I'd get coup-d out of leadership lol, but we built up a solid grudging respect by the end of the game. I remember you doing pretty well at your task in the game? iirc I found you annoying at the time due to your (at the time) tendency towards seing imminent DOOM everywhere, but having you assigned as someone whose job is to tell me how our plans can go wrong worked out pretty well. You also did a very solid job as a deputy commander after glorious elan of the French led General Mon Pere (me) into machine guns at the end.  My big regret about that game is that I came in with the expectations that Trin will be sharing things we talked about during the game, my perspective, predictions, reasoning, difficulties, etc in the observer thread. Figured it'd be a nice counterpart to the after-the-fact nature of the irl memoirs of generals who were writing about what happened just as much as they were making GBS threads on their rivals and making themselves look more competent by coming up with retroactive justifications. And he shared none of it in order to maintain audience suspence. :/ Was a very rude surprise when I showed up in the observer thread after the game was over. The game was in part inspired by Trin and I discussing prejudices about WW1 and the annoying "they were all blundering idiots" narrative. Now, admittedly, goons aren't the best group to use to disprove this, but I think the game did a solid job at demonstrating the main point, especially the significance of the delay between being things happening, finding out about it, and being able to actually react to it, while relying on fairly unreliable communications, especially when on the offense. My favorite part is that it had cavalry that was both wildly more successful than irl on the western front (because the German team metagamed 'ww1 cavalry sucks', they took none of the actual precautions that caused cavalry to suck during ww1), with Germans losing half their artillery to a poor choice of time and place for redeploying and a French cavalry unit that could take initiative from behind a reverse slope that launch a surprise charge, and also had a cavalry charge catastrophically fail at the end because the German team did eventually, after a lot of flaing around and panicking, actually take the precautions that obsoleted cavalry. In retrospect, it's kind of hilarious how much both teams represented two stereotypes of WW1 commanders. The German team was having constant stress problems and breakdowns over setbacks they had, with players cycling out of the game, while the French/British team was fairly sanguine for the most part, almost to the point of being callous about losses in a way that'd be... almost as demoralizing to know as a soldier being commanded by as as the German HQ's breakdowns would be. I will note that the game left me... disappointed in NATO military guys' competence. Like, regardless of my opinion of NATO's role in the world, I assumed that guys who did planning related things would be, you know, actually good at that. They ended up being the most difficult people to work with, and prone to drawing an infinite amount of hypothetical map lines that didn't amount to anything in practice. Wargamers ended up being a lot more down-to-earth in that regard. Since I'm already posting about this - remember the guy who was accused of cheating, but it remained kind of ambiguous since he backed out of the game afterwards? He was absolutely, 100% cheating. To people not in the know - the guy was reading not only the other thread but also the offsite 'hq' we used to work with the map and discuss things in a more chat-like manner than the more official and rigid "Here's your orders, follow them" kept in the thread for ease of coordinating. The German commander noticed that one of his guys was acting really suspicious with sudden 'flashes of insight' that he confirmed (after the game when he was allowed to read the other side's stuff) were conveniently timed with our own conversations, brought his worries up with Trin, Tin talked to me, and I set up a trap to get the guy to tell on himself during round 2 (the vote for the new commander, with a few little tricks included) - he bought it hook, line, and sinker, and I will remain smug about catching him in the act like that for the rest of my days. my dad has issued a correction as of 18:39 on Feb 9, 2023 |
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Feb 9, 2023 18:32
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Frosted Flake posted:Silent Hunter 4 with the recent mods is worth revisiting IMO. The latest Fleet Boat mod (FOTRSU) and U-Boat conversion mods (KSDII, Dark Waters) are very good sub sims and bring the game up almost to modern levels. I wish people were doing this kind of work in U-Boat, because they have everything from Type IIs to IXs in the ETO and then really good simulations of S-Boats through the latest fleet boats in the PTO, pushing the old engine and lack of support from Ubisoft as far as it can go. More relevant to the thread, they simulate the many problems the Germans had with their torpedoes and detonators as well. I just want a version of U-Boat where I don’t have to play as the Nazis
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Feb 9, 2023 19:50
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Woah woah woah, nobody told me there was a 20-man staff exercise on the forums. If you needed an Artillery Bde chief or aide... alas 🥺
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Feb 9, 2023 19:50
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my dad posted:I will note that the game left me... disappointed in NATO military guys' competence. Like, regardless of my opinion of NATO's role in the world, I assumed that guys who did planning related things would be, you know, actually good at that. They ended up being the most difficult people to work with, and prone to drawing an infinite amount of hypothetical map lines that didn't amount to anything in practice. Wargamers ended up being a lot more down-to-earth in that regard. It's because you have a few exercises a year (at most) that require real planning, the rest are Go to Area X of the Training Area, refresh individual and unit skills Y, expend Z amount of ammunition at the same part of the Impact Area we use for every exercise, and that scales to the Bde and Div exercises. When they do try actual planning we have serious real world risks such as when they did not do engineering recce for an "opposed" river crossing (because they did not consult Bde Engineering Staff to get estimates, ran out of time and went ahead without rather than EndEx) and risked some serious accidents, as well as not being able to provide food, or even water, so some combat elements for almost 36 hrs. That's one of many, many accidents, or near accidents (provided summer diesel for arctic exercise, entire radio net goes down during a storm) caused by improper planning but the reason is planning takes time. Time that is spent doing an incredible amount of daily tasks, that are only manageable because they become formulaic and routine. This is a common problem across militaries, Robert E Lee didn't even have a staff because he thought officers should be "busy" doing "more important" things. It's really hard to make the case for tabletop exercises, doctrine study, whatever else, when someone is needed in the bullpen to shuffle paperwork around, someone needs to supervise work in the gun shed, someone needs to go to Ottawa for a headquarters billet, someone needs to get sent to the school, or to be course officer on a basic training course etc. Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 19:58 on Feb 9, 2023 |
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Feb 9, 2023 19:54
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Mister Bates posted:I just want a version of U-Boat where I don’t have to play as the Nazis doesn’t one of the silent hunters have an American pacific campaign
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Feb 9, 2023 19:57
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Raskolnikov38 posted:doesn’t one of the silent hunters have an American pacific campaign but seriously SH 4 does, and it's probably the best. It also has the German U-Boats in the Indian Ocean though.
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Feb 9, 2023 20:00
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I only played sh3 and sierra’s uboat sim from the 90s
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Feb 9, 2023 20:01
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Frosted Flake posted:
hahaha, nicely done
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Feb 9, 2023 20:02
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Frosted Flake posted:It's because you have a few exercises a year (at most) that require real planning, the rest are Go to Area X of the Training Area, refresh individual and unit skills Y, expend Z amount of ammunition at the same part of the Impact Area we use for every exercise, and that scales to the Bde and Div exercises. When they do try actual planning we have serious real world risks such as when they did not do engineering recce for an "opposed" river crossing (because they did not consult Bde Engineering Staff to get estimates, ran out of time and went ahead without rather than EndEx) and risked some serious accidents, as well as not being able to provide food, or even water, so some combat elements for almost 36 hrs. Sounds like NATO needs an office assistant tbh How does this interface with the thing about Soviet tactics being based on a simple emergent system whereas NATO would have had to perfectly prepare every single defense, in the event of a fulda gap type scenario? I'm referring to the article posted somewhere on this forum written by the guy who used by the book Soviet tactics in war games to the endless dismay of NATO players.
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Feb 9, 2023 20:02
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Raskolnikov38 posted:doesn’t one of the silent hunters have an American pacific campaign in that case you're whitey sent to kill the yellow man ww2 convoy raiding doesnt have any good guys
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Feb 9, 2023 20:02
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Slavvy posted:Sounds like NATO needs an office assistant tbh Well, the idea with them having those formulas was that they could put reserve officers in a slot, they would be trained in consulting the charts and tables and would be able to competently execute operations, including planning, by virtue of having a theoretical understanding plus the references. Shattered Sword gave probably the best definition of doctrine when it explained it as a system to know what people above, below and beside you in the chain of command, and neighbouring you in the actual terrain, are likely to do, given a certain situation. Everybody will act in accordance with shared principles, basically. The Soviet system of manuals and monographs just took that further by having a core of extremely good staff officers, really academics and scientists in uniform, systematize all of these military problems, put them in manuals and tables to make sure that anybody could be a good enough officer. It's a different distribution and dissemination of institutional expertise. They all have formulae for how long planning by each person in a staff should take for given situations, what we call The Estimate, and then what references each person in a given role should consult. I guess it's a different way of thinking about it but it came from the Soviet experience of turning a population of illiterate peasants into a society of engineers in a generation. Turning things into technical skills rather than intellectual pursuits, if that's a good way to describe it? Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3 posted:in that case you're whitey sent to kill the yellow man USNI has a title on the use of submarine deck guns in the PTO, and as gunnery is something I'm interested in, and everybody on the subsim forums disparaged deck guns ("why did they even have them?" "Only good for hanging clothes!" etc.) but I've always found them useful, I decided to take a look. It records nearly every use of deck guns by American submarines against Japanese merchants. First, way more common than people were saying, so I was validated. Second, some very useful information on the 3, 4 and 5 inch guns, as well as AA mounts. More importantly, most of those encounters were, shall we say, not great. “Mush Morton was not the only Allied submarine commander to order the shooting of survivors. Before the Wahoo’s assault on the Buyo Maru, the British submarine Torbay made analogous attacks in the Mediterranean. On its second patrol in the Aegean Sea during July 1941, the Torbay made a series of gun attacks on schooners and caďques carrying German troops, sometimes killing survivors. Paul Chapman, a Torbay officer, later described one of the attacks, tersely noting, “The troops were not allowed to escape: everything and everybody was destroyed by one sort of gunfire or another.” "The Torbay’s commander, Anthony Cecil Capel “Tony” Miers, resembled Morton in physicality and disposition. In a sense Miers, like Morton, might be characterized as a spiritual descendant of the berserkers—enraged Viking warriors who went too far in the heat of battle. Like Morton, Tony Miers made no attempt to conceal the killings and received a hero’s welcome when he returned to port. The recent battle for Crete, in which German aviators were accused of strafing British survivors in the water, created little mood for generosity toward the enemy. Andrew Cunningham, commander in chief of the Mediterranean Fleet, praised the patrol as “brilliantly conducted.” ... "The two represented one extreme on a continuum. There were other U.S. submarines at least implicated in the shooting of survivors. After sinking a “fishing-patrol boat” in June 1943, crew on the USS Sculpin took potshots at Japanese clinging to wreckage in the water. On one occasion the USS Bergall fired on a lifeboat with its 20 mm gun After dispatching a patrol boat in the early hours of 27 January 1945. The patrol report claimed that the crewmen believed the lifeboat empty when they opened fire, although the evidence of an eyewitness is ambiguous. He claimed that they destroyed the lifeboat in part to conceal the submarine’s presence in the area.” ... Also, they did not differentiate between Chinese, Korean, Thai and Filipino sailors, and junks and sampans carrying military goods and fishing boats, for example. The stuff they thought about Asian maritimers is buried in chapter 10, but oof. Book is Surface and Destroy: The Submarine Gun War in the Pacific. Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 20:19 on Feb 9, 2023 |
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Feb 9, 2023 20:10
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Tekopo posted:should have included circular runs for added spiciness Its an optional rule in Silent Victory but I was keeping it simple
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Feb 9, 2023 20:20
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my dad posted:I will note that the game left me... disappointed in NATO military guys' competence. Like, regardless of my opinion of NATO's role in the world, I assumed that guys who did planning related things would be, you know, actually good at that. They ended up being the most difficult people to work with, and prone to drawing an infinite amount of hypothetical map lines that didn't amount to anything in practice. Wargamers ended up being a lot more down-to-earth in that regard. Reminds me of when the Cubans told the Soviets in I think Angola that their plans were too loving complicated and would get hosed up in the execution because they drew more than 3 arrows.
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Feb 9, 2023 21:34
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I am enjoying the Soviet campaign in Dotmod for Cold Waters, although I really wish there was a Soviet option for the 1968 campaign or a China option for the South China Sea campaign. I think EpicMod has both but also a whole lot of people on the Internet are saying it's bad and I shouldn't use it. I am not a fan at all of the campaign forcing you to start in what is basically a WW2-era German Type VII in 1984 and expecting you to just deal with it, but it's pretty trivial to mod the mod by editing a text file.
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Feb 9, 2023 21:48
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Anyone got recommendations for good premodern tactical wargames for phones
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Feb 9, 2023 22:31
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Mister Bates posted:I am enjoying the Soviet campaign in Dotmod for Cold Waters, although I really wish there was a Soviet option for the 1968 campaign or a China option for the South China Sea campaign. I think EpicMod has both but also a whole lot of people on the Internet are saying it's bad and I shouldn't use it. EpidMod is good, as in well made, but also bad, as in doesn’t credit minimods or whatever. No ethical consumption under periscope depth.
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Feb 9, 2023 22:40
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Frosted Flake posted:USNI has a title on the use of submarine deck guns in the PTO, and as gunnery is something I'm interested in, and everybody on the subsim forums disparaged deck guns ("why did they even have them?" "Only good for hanging clothes!" etc.) but I've always found them useful, I decided to take a look. It records nearly every use of deck guns by American submarines against Japanese merchants. Wtf deck guns are great because it's free tonnage whenever you run into unescorted single merchants. You get to sink them without worrying about dud torps or missing your shots.
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Feb 9, 2023 22:56
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Really sad to think about how industrialisation made it impossible to force the merchants to strike their colors and sail them home with a prize crew
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Feb 9, 2023 23:04
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my dad posted:Since I'm already posting about this - remember the guy who was accused of cheating, but it remained kind of ambiguous since he backed out of the game afterwards? He was absolutely, 100% cheating. To people not in the know - the guy was reading not only the other thread but also the offsite 'hq' we used to work with the map and discuss things in a more chat-like manner than the more official and rigid "Here's your orders, follow them" kept in the thread for ease of coordinating. The German commander noticed that one of his guys was acting really suspicious with sudden 'flashes of insight' that he confirmed (after the game when he was allowed to read the other side's stuff) were conveniently timed with our own conversations, brought his worries up with Trin, Tin talked to me, and I set up a trap to get the guy to tell on himself during round 2 (the vote for the new commander, with a few little tricks included) - he bought it hook, line, and sinker, and I will remain smug about catching him in the act like that for the rest of my days.
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Feb 9, 2023 23:05
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I'm running a Pacific War game at the moment where I've tried to give the players as little information about the rules as possible, where I run all of the rules and where I've added additional fog of war, over even the one that the base game rules have, and I've been really hoping no one cheats because it would be extremely easy to do
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Feb 9, 2023 23:16
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Slavvy posted:Really sad to think about how industrialisation made it impossible to force the merchants to strike their colors and sail them home with a prize crew ultimate admiral age of sail has your desire covered
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Feb 9, 2023 23:47
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