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mycomancy posted:Have you tried "getting good?" Maybe then you wouldn't lose so much to balanced cards. i am the strongest mtg player in this thread tyvm!!!!!!!!!!!
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Feb 10, 2023 18:45
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Invoke Despair is a trash card for garbage people, it does way too much and is way too good for its cost. The closest comparisons would be Casualties of War, which was 6 mana and two colors for an effect that was more conditional (targeted removal, with downside if you didn't have 6 targets) and Cruel Ultimatum, which was 7 mana across 3 colors for an effect that's kinda comparable yet mostly inferior to Invoke Despair. It's a bad card because it's too good. Invoke has ZERO downside, because at the very least it's 6 damage to your opponent, and you draw 3 cards. If you don't see why it's so absolutely broken, then you're very bad at card evaluation. The fact that black is the strongest color in standard right now makes the card even more oppressive than it already was, especially with Sheoldred on board, which turns it into a 6 damage Drain Life with card draw as its worst case scenario.
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Feb 10, 2023 19:21
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mycomancy posted:Have you tried "getting good?" Maybe then you wouldn't lose so much to balanced cards. I'm all ears for suggestions. It just seems like the only answer is counter spells.
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Feb 10, 2023 19:21
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Silhouette posted:Invoke Despair is a trash card for garbage people, it does way too much and is way too good for its cost. The closest comparisons would be Casualties of War, which was 6 mana and two colors for an effect that was more conditional (targeted removal, with downside if you didn't have 6 targets) and Cruel Ultimatum, which was 7 mana across 3 colors for an effect that's kinda comparable yet mostly inferior to Invoke Despair. It's downside is that it's a 5 mana sorcery lol The fact that format incentivizes you to play a BBBB1 card is the real issue. mcmagic fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Feb 10, 2023 |
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Feb 10, 2023 19:56
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mcmagic posted:It's downside is that it's a 5 mana sorcery lol I was gonna say the same thing actually. I haven't played standard in a really long time, is it really so slow that a 5 CMC sorcery is backbreaking? I understand mono-b decks are running pretty wild, but that still seems pretty crazy
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Feb 10, 2023 20:02
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Weird Pumpkin posted:I was gonna say the same thing actually. I haven't played standard in a really long time, is it really so slow that a 5 CMC sorcery is backbreaking? I understand mono-b decks are running pretty wild, but that still seems pretty crazy Mono or heavy black decks are very grindy and their threats once in the board either need to be removed quickly (sheoldred, gix, fleshgorger) or require you to 2 for one yourself (graveyard trespasser). There is also incidental lifegain that makes getting that last few points of damage in difficult.
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Feb 10, 2023 20:18
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Also, people can sacrifice stuff they choose to keep you from drawing cards and doing damage. More often its 4 damage, 2 cards and a 1/1 token. Or 1 card, 2 damage, the smallest creature on the board, and a planeswalker you want to get rid of. Which is pretty ok. The enchantment part is the only really unfair part of it. Black traditionally hasn't been able to do that, and drat near every standard deck has either Wedding Announcement or Fable and no other enchantments, so there's usually going to be a high value target for it, while also killing a creature and planeswalker or drawing cards. Basically, it's not broken, but it can just never miss. Which, when you compare it to the power creep of creatures that have powerful ETBs and leave behind a body, it makes sense.
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Feb 10, 2023 20:26
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If invoke despair is actually good that owns because it's a 5 cmc card that isn't a creature which leaves behind a ton of value even if instantly killed, and standard has had far too few good cards which aren't that lately.
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Feb 10, 2023 20:41
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MasterBuilder posted:I'm all ears for suggestions. It just seems like the only answer is counter spells. Playing counterspells is traditionally how you become good at magic.
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Feb 10, 2023 20:43
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Tism the Dragon Tickler posted:Playing counterspells is traditionally how you become good at magic. Oh I played mono u tempo in explorer so I know how to make someone's day worse but it is nice to change it up and touch grass every once in a while.
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Feb 10, 2023 21:13
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Counter spells is how you make sure no one is good at Magic and that no Magic is to be had at all.
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Feb 10, 2023 21:13
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A Moose posted:Also, people can sacrifice stuff they choose to keep you from drawing cards and doing damage. More often its 4 damage, 2 cards and a 1/1 token. Or 1 card, 2 damage, the smallest creature on the board, and a planeswalker you want to get rid of. Which is pretty ok. Yes I think it was maybe a mistake to give Black enchantment removal as a tertiary ability. They can handle every permanent type except for artifacts, now. I think there's plenty of time to let the meta settle before thinking it needs to eat a ban though. It's not like Mono-B was the best deck in the last standard, which was Esper soup iirc.
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Feb 10, 2023 21:20
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A Moose posted:Basically, it's not broken, but it can just never miss. Which, when you compare it to the power creep of creatures that have powerful ETBs and leave behind a body, it makes sense. I guess the thing is if it could miss at cmc 5 with a hyper restrictive mana cost it just wouldn't be playable at all though, so it doesn't strike me as really egregious. But as mentioned I don't play standard or anything so I'm not a very good barometer on whether it's healthy
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Feb 10, 2023 21:24
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Katana Gomai posted:*Omnath, Atraxa, bad, bad, bad *Bruse/Thrasios, Tymna/Thrasios, Tymna/Kraum, Thrasios/Vial Smasher, bad
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Feb 10, 2023 21:41
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mcmagic posted:It's downside is that it's a 5 mana sorcery lol It's a 5 mana sorcery in a midrange heavy meta with good mana fixing, which is why Mike N Eich posted:. It's not like Mono-B was the best deck in the last standard, which was Esper soup iirc. means nothing because there's not really an opportunity cost when most of your lands are duals that can tap for B. HOWEVER, the current meta is still coalescing because ONE has been out for like a week, so maybe super friends control or toxic aggro or some other bullshit will become top dog and invoke will fill a needed spot to help keep those kinds of decks in check But it's more likely that those decks will just play invoke too and the format will be garbage until September thank you for coming to my ted talk
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Feb 10, 2023 21:42
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Even with all the fixing, Invoke despair still does less, and is harder to cast, then Cryptic Command, which was played in 5-color decks in standard at the time. So It falls somewhere between Siege Rhino and Cryptic Command, neither of which were banned.
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Feb 10, 2023 22:31
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lmao cryptic is a counterspell that draws you one card or bounces a creature, it's nowhere near invokes power level
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Feb 10, 2023 22:45
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Silhouette posted:lmao cryptic is a counterspell that draws you one card or bounces a creature, it's nowhere near invokes power level I disagree lol.
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Feb 10, 2023 22:56
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Tism the Dragon Tickler posted:Playing counterspells is traditionally how you become good at magic. True Khanstant posted:Counter spells is how you make sure no one is good at Magic and that no Magic is to be had at all. Also true
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Feb 10, 2023 23:06
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Silhouette posted:lmao cryptic is a counterspell that draws you one card or bounces a creature, it's nowhere near invokes power level This sounds like someone who's never played with Cryptic Command. There's nothing as flexible at getting you out of any problem as Cryptic.
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Feb 10, 2023 23:08
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Yyyyeah if I'm casting a spell for 1BBBB it better do something. And even then, the most likely scenario of killing the worst creature my opponent has while dealing 4 damage and drawing 2 cards doesn't really seem all that great? If I'm throwing down a 5 mana spell that card better be winning the game or drastically swinging the game in my favor.
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Feb 10, 2023 23:11
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Cryptic is way better than invoke because it actually does something when you're behind. Invoke just pays 5 mana to kill something that costs way less than 5 and then you die - it does a lot to put the game away when you're slightly ahead, but isn't going to turn it around when you're losing.
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Feb 10, 2023 23:11
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Silhouette posted:Invoke Despair is a trash card for garbage people, it does way too much and is way too good for its cost. The closest comparisons would be Casualties of War, which was 6 mana and two colors for an effect that was more conditional (targeted removal, with downside if you didn't have 6 targets) and Cruel Ultimatum, which was 7 mana across 3 colors for an effect that's kinda comparable yet mostly inferior to Invoke Despair.  Never before has a card been so aptly named. The last line doesn't say "Target opponent gains two salt counters and concedes the game." Eat the damage or sac the perms then kill your opponent. mycomancy fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Feb 10, 2023 |
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Feb 10, 2023 23:21
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Silhouette posted:lmao cryptic is a counterspell that draws you one card or bounces a creature, it's nowhere near invokes power level You're right, Cryptic Command is on a much higher power level than Invoke Despair.
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Feb 10, 2023 23:27
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I play Teaching of the Kirin, Fable, Ob Nix. You play Invoke. I made this meme a while back just waiting to use it, but I think this might be the closest to relevancy it'll get. 
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Feb 10, 2023 23:28
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Cactrot posted:You're right, Cryptic Command is on a much higher power level than Invoke Despair. both are fine for standard tbh
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Feb 10, 2023 23:40
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mcmagic posted:both are fine for standard tbh I agree, but If both were in standard, I don't think anyone would be playing Invoke Despair.
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Feb 10, 2023 23:46
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FWIW if you're an Invoke Despair hater the mono-W deck in Standard is pretty good and 1) doesn't run it and 2) doesn't lose to it.
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Feb 10, 2023 23:57
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Silhouette posted:It's a 5 mana sorcery in a midrange heavy meta with good mana fixing, which is why Post the deck you are playing
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Feb 11, 2023 00:19
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Its okay to not like a card and even more okay to have wrong opinions about the card you don't like.
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Feb 11, 2023 00:27
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I like Sheoldred and Invoke at the moment because you can play a mono black toxic aggro deck up til 4 mana and then play Shelly and Invoke and people get so pissed at the bait-and-switch that they concede. This is not good deck building advice, but it is a very fun troll deck.
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Feb 11, 2023 00:32
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I think I need to try this deck out, I was always missing a few pieces for the Rakdos standard decks and Monoblack aggro wasn't good last set. I want to play some white decks but always lack too many prices and looks like I still do this time around haha. Plus I picked up an extra Invoke during the brief Kamigawa draft recently.
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Feb 11, 2023 00:48
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I'll have to give that a try, maybe with some wandering emperor sleeves.
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Feb 11, 2023 01:04
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I just use the precons to complete quests, but in unranked Standard I'm seeing a lot of Golgari, Selesnya, or Mono-Black Toxic decks and they all look fun. Most of them just use a bunch of commons and uncommons too. If paper Standard was still around I'd definitely build one to chill at FNM.
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Feb 11, 2023 01:12
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more cardmarket AI magic card decks featuring MTGRemy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEyZH3299tg&hd=1 It's the last time they're playing with AI cards I guess, which is a shame, I love these stupid videos of theirs.
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Feb 11, 2023 01:47
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Pulled one of them shiny phyrexia logo foils with Jin-Gitaxis on it plus a Tyrranx Rex. Feels good.
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Feb 11, 2023 02:51
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wait, so all five praetors are possible pulls in ONE boosters? does this mean Vorinclex is legal in standard again?
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Feb 11, 2023 04:05
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Captain Invictus posted:wait, so all five praetors are possible pulls in ONE boosters? does this mean Vorinclex is legal in standard again? Only in draft.
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Feb 11, 2023 04:06
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that's a bummer, kinda weird that only one of them is rotated out while the rest are in standard sets. also vorinclex is the most fun of the lot
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Feb 11, 2023 04:10
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Captain Invictus posted:that's a bummer, kinda weird that only one of them is rotated out while the rest are in standard sets. It would probably bust the toxic/proliferate decks even more, even though they probably don't want a 6 mana anything right now. Flavor-wise it is a little weird though, yeah.
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Feb 11, 2023 04:28
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