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Volmarias posted:Being fired and immediately locked out via an email sent at 2am PST isn't a great thing. That's honestly wild. I've read stories like this many times, and I find the inhumanity and complete disregard for professional conduct stunning. My current work contract includes a four month notice period for either side, during which we'd have the opportunity to do a clean hand-over and organise a replacement (job for me, worker for them), or mutually dissolve the contract. I honestly have no idea how you can run an organisation that just chaos monkeys its own workers. Like, morally, but also organisationally. It's setting a bonfire to institutional knowlege.
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Feb 10, 2023 22:53
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Antigravitas posted:That's honestly wild. I've read stories like this many times, and I find the inhumanity and complete disregard for professional conduct stunning. These are the same companies that complain when potential candidates ghost them, or quit and don’t give notice. The hypocrisy used to be funny, now it’s just tiring.
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Feb 10, 2023 22:58
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OddObserver posted:I suspect you have to believe that to get an MBA. That's the other wild part about all of this. The Google tech stack is infamously complicated and unique, so it takes them a long time to gey new hires up to speed. Despite that, Google just got rid of probably a couple dozen person-millenia of expertise for no discernable reason.
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Feb 10, 2023 22:59
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Will this get tech workers to finally organize? Probably not. They'll just be mad about their peers who they perceive as the ones who should have been fired, as if anyone cares.
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Feb 10, 2023 23:07
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Antigravitas posted:I honestly have no idea how you can run an organisation that just chaos monkeys its own workers. Like, morally, but also organisationally. It's setting a bonfire to institutional knowlege. There are a lot of people also wondering this. FWIW, technically it was 3 (in NY) months of notice, to be served as gardening leave. I can understand immediately locking out people who now have a very strong albeit irrational motive to gently caress things up, and the ability to do so. It's not unreasonable to think they might send every person in the company hello.jpg, individually, from their personal accounts too. What I DON'T understand is how no one in my team, including my manager, was given a way to get in contact with me, even to say sorry. When I said this was a surprise to everyone, I mean it. A chunk of the company was just snapped out of existence (:thanosarg:). Fortunately, I knew other googlers that were still employed, so I was able to get contact info to them that way, but people who were still relatively new and didn't have those personal connections probably had no way to actually contact anyone. If they were lucky, they learned about the discord after the fact via the news, or someone who actually cared was able to track them down. Absolutely galaxy brain lack of empathy or even understanding of the concept of "perhaps the person on call should be able to have that handed off" instead of the whole team for that service just... no longer existing. One very long and rude DiRT exercise to see just how resilient the company is. Completely and utterly divorced from seeing or caring about consequences.
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Feb 10, 2023 23:11
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I had a recruiter email from google sitting in my inbox from a couple of weeks ago. I emailed them back and said “after how google treated their employees with the random layoffs, I am going to decline.” The email bounced so I assume the recruiter also got axed. 
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Feb 10, 2023 23:14
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FlapYoJacks posted:I had a recruiter email from google sitting in my inbox from a couple of weeks ago. I emailed them back and said “after how google treated their employees with the random layoffs, I am going to decline.” The email bounced so I assume the recruiter also got axed. Yes, apparently a number of applicants had their recruiters snapped, with no handoffs to know who to contact. Galaxy brain poo poo.
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Feb 10, 2023 23:16
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Volmarias posted:Yes, apparently a number of applicants had their recruiters snapped, with no handoffs to know who to contact. Lmfao. This is such a cluster gently caress.
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Feb 10, 2023 23:18
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Everywhere’s getting Muskified now. I guess it’s easier to just run stuff on vibes.
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Feb 10, 2023 23:20
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Listen, I can count the money I am paying each day in salaries, not the potential money lost from retraining people, gutted teams limping along without key staff, and declining morale. It matters way more to them that they are getting outmaneuvered in the media by Microsoft.
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Feb 10, 2023 23:38
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Antigravitas posted:I honestly have no idea how you can run an organisation that just chaos monkeys its own workers. Like, morally, but also organisationally. It's setting a bonfire to institutional knowlege. The answer is: Poorly. You raise stress and churn across the company and now everyone's less productive in the long run and your best talent either got fired in the chaos or is looking for other jobs at companies that aren't so dysfunctional. But for the people at the top making these demands all they see and care about are the short term gains (that they steal for themselves) and then golden parachute out when things finally break.
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Feb 11, 2023 00:00
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Antigravitas posted:That's honestly wild. I've read stories like this many times, and I find the inhumanity and complete disregard for professional conduct stunning. Execs are terrified of sabotage, theft of data, and other potential malfeasance at the hands of workers fired or laid off against their will. It's created a culture in which cutting off an employee's access before they even know they're fired is seen as the standard way of handling those departures. I think there's also something to be said for how a lot of these companies are just flailing around doing whatever, hiring massive numbers of people and starting tons of projects on the off chance that maybe one of them will be a hit. That leaves the projects on shaky ground when markets get tight (or even just when the execs' whims change) but it also encourages a flaky attitude toward the people. As long as they leave enough people to keep the ads flowing and keep their core service from going down, they can cut everything else and not feel like they have to worry.
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Feb 11, 2023 00:30
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Is Google's money still largely from advertising, YouTube (advertising), and I guess Android? Gmail and Google flights, Google docs are all handy but it seems like a ton of effort is just paid school projects
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Feb 11, 2023 00:32
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All the money and effort invested into processes to cut disgruntled employees off ASAP would to me seemingly be much better invested in humane processes to treat your staff better that ensure you don't have employees that disgruntled in the first place. But then again I don't have an MBA or work for McKinsey or Accenture I guess...
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Feb 11, 2023 00:43
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Blut posted:All the money and effort invested into processes to cut disgruntled employees off ASAP would to me seemingly be much better invested in humane processes to treat your staff better that ensure you don't have employees that disgruntled in the first place. I mean, yes and no... some people, no matter how well you treat them, are going to take a layoff hard and could respond to it by doing some hosed up poo poo, up to and including showing up with a gun and going on a spree shooting. It would be nice to do it nicely, but I also get why some employers feel they shouldn't go that route.
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Feb 11, 2023 00:49
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Most management decisions are based around management insecurity and incompetence. I'd say it was money but that only counts if it's the most direct, obvious money. Anything that's not immediately obvious and they'll happily throw away money to save a few bucks on one thing.
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Feb 11, 2023 00:55
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PT6A posted:I mean, yes and no... some people, no matter how well you treat them, are going to take a layoff hard and could respond to it by doing some hosed up poo poo, up to and including showing up with a gun and going on a spree shooting. It would be nice to do it nicely, but I also get why some employers feel they shouldn't go that route. Laying off people while spending billions on stock buybacks is also incredibly slimy and lovely. Perhaps Google shouldn't do that?
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Feb 11, 2023 01:06
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FlapYoJacks posted:Laying off people while spending billions on stock buybacks is also incredibly slimy and lovely. Perhaps Google shouldn't do that? Agreed, I’m just saying that why you do the layoff is a different question from how you do the layoff.
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Feb 11, 2023 01:20
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FlapYoJacks posted:Laying off people while spending billions on stock buybacks is also incredibly slimy and lovely. Perhaps Google shouldn't do that? Yes, but have you considered, and I can't emphasize this enough, number go up?
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Feb 11, 2023 01:22
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PT6A posted:I mean, yes and no... some people, no matter how well you treat them, are going to take a layoff hard and could respond to it by doing some hosed up poo poo, up to and including showing up with a gun and going on a spree shooting. It would be nice to do it nicely, but I also get why some employers feel they shouldn't go that route. Suddenly laying off people when their health insurance is dependent on their job is a lot more likely to result in death than a workplace shooting where the management was nice. You're giving them the benefit of the doubt where none should be given. No manager is thinking of shootings. They're thinking they want to get it over with so they don't to have bad fee fees about destroying lives. What a bizarre take.
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Feb 11, 2023 01:23
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Every corporate process I've encountered is hostile to institutional knowledge. Keeping that in mind, you wouldn't care who or when you ax them as long as everyone was following the perfect process laid upon high. It's absolutely core to corporate management to be apathetic to an individuals knowledge and worth.
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Feb 11, 2023 01:38
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BlueBlazer posted:Every corporate process I've encountered is hostile to institutional knowledge. Keeping that in mind, you wouldn't care who or when you ax them as long as everyone was following the perfect process laid upon high. people are just widgets. you can get another one and it will be just as good.
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Feb 11, 2023 01:40
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Volmarias posted:Yes, but have you considered, and I can't emphasize this enough, number go up?  
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Feb 11, 2023 01:44
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uber_stoat posted:people are just widgets. you can get another one and it will be just as good. This must explain why our contractor to full time employee ratio is approaching 10:1.
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Feb 11, 2023 01:45
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OddObserver posted:I suspect you have to believe that to get an MBA. My first career job was at a big-ish defense contractor (no, not Raytheon or Northrup) and shortly after there was a new head for our division. He immediately shuffled the org chart for? ?? reasons. The guy who mentored me said it happens every time. MBA types have no real ideas or skills so they re-arrange the chairs to prove to their bosses that they're doing something. The only thing that matters is that it helps them climb the ladder.
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Feb 11, 2023 01:54
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shoeberto posted:My first career job was at a big-ish defense contractor (no, not Raytheon or Northrup) and shortly after there was a new head for our division. He immediately shuffled the org chart for? ?? reasons. Yeah as an executive you need to have a "project" to move up. I've seen three CMOs in a row at my company do literally the same project under different names.
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Feb 11, 2023 01:58
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shoeberto posted:My first career job was at a big-ish defense contractor (no, not Raytheon or Northrup) and shortly after there was a new head for our division. He immediately shuffled the org chart for? ?? reasons. Random re-branding as well is a big thing that MBA types love to do when they're put in charge of a new place. Last branding was instantly recognizable to our clients, well liked by everyone, and we'll have to spend millions on changing everything with our branding on it. Whatever. New person in charge new branding. There's such idiotic pettiness to it all.
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Feb 11, 2023 02:04
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withoutclass posted:This must explain why our contractor to full time employee ratio is approaching 10:1. My company calls our offshore contractors "resources" and I've started pushing back on that poo poo every time I hear it. Just a pointlessly dehumanizing term for somebody who is much more vital to the business than some middle manager.
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Feb 11, 2023 02:19
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One way to make it more likely that tech workers will unionize is to treat them interchangeably. It's worked for QA in more and more games companies!
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Feb 11, 2023 02:46
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Chieves posted:who is much more vital to the business than some middle manager. How dare you! The next time a headcount reduction comes along, you will be top of the list! I have also put you on a performance improvement plan, and no, I haven’t looked at your metrics. By the way, meet your new coworker that I hired for 20% more than you are currently making for the same role. You will not be receiving a raise to make up the difference.
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Feb 11, 2023 02:56
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Chieves posted:My company calls our offshore contractors "resources" and I've started pushing back on that poo poo every time I hear it. Just a pointlessly dehumanizing term for somebody who is much more vital to the business than some middle manager. I still really hate the term human resources. I don't know who came up with it,but gently caress em, know and forever. Only "good" thing you can say about it, it is the way lot of people in the corporate world think about employees.
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Feb 11, 2023 03:03
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Even if you buy that layoffs were necessary (I don't), there were better ways of handling them. They could have just said "We need to do layoffs. Here's the severance package we are offering. If you want to take it, go ahead, and you'll be saving a coworker". That would:
Yeah, you can't then use layoffs as an excuse to get rid of your low performers, but as discussed above, it seems like Google didn't do that anyways.
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Feb 11, 2023 03:03
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Well, the layoffs were more or less to make employees afraid of their livelihood and quiet down any idea workers might have had of having rights, like one company probably went " fire the ones that would not go to office" and another that did wfh instead " they go to the office too much", or just bullshit excuses.
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Feb 11, 2023 03:11
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There was very little thought to them. We have very few QA already and we lost some of them. We also lost our only security guy, and a good manager that had just started 2 months ago. We also lost a backend engineer leaving us down to only a few folks left for the backend support rotation. I like doing a good job and trying to make poo poo better for our customers but it's pretty hard to maintain good faith when it feels like whoever is driving the ship isn't.
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Feb 11, 2023 03:36
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dr_rat posted:I still really hate the term human resources. I don't know who came up with it,but gently caress em, know and forever. Only "good" thing you can say about it, it is the way lot of people in the corporate world think about employees. My company calls it "people ops" which I kinda like as an alternative. Most HR that I've experienced otherwise has been pretty dehumanizing.
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Feb 11, 2023 03:46
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The thing with HR is that they get brought in spend most of their time dealing with highly lovely situations or insurance (which is poo poo, that's the joke). Even when they're involved in hiring, they deal with a lot of lovely candidates before they talk to the one who will actually get hired. Definitely don't go to HR if you want help finding a compassionate resolution to a problem, but also I see how they got there.
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Feb 11, 2023 04:02
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FlapYoJacks posted:Laying off people while spending billions on stock buybacks is also incredibly slimy and lovely. Perhaps Google shouldn't do that? It was also illegal, with good reason, until Reagan came into office and proceeded to lay the groundwork to gently caress the country into the ground over the long term.
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Feb 11, 2023 05:22
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shoeberto posted:My company calls it "people ops" which I kinda like as an alternative. Most HR that I've experienced otherwise has been pretty dehumanizing. We do "People and Culture" and also have a Chief Diversity Officer. She rocks and gets us a great speaker every month. Last month we had Vanessa Williams talking about being an angel investor for POC. Idris Elba spoke about his production house that focuses on minority creatives; our CEO broke the ice by asking the James Bond question. We also had Major General Charles Bolden, a USMC aviator during Vietnam, an astronaut, and the first black head of NASA. We try.
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Feb 11, 2023 05:45
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Edit: Wrong subforum. Thought I was somewhere else.
Sundae fucked around with this message at 08:26 on Feb 11, 2023 |
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Feb 11, 2023 06:21
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shoeberto posted:MBA types have no real ideas or skills so they re-arrange the chairs to prove to their bosses that they're doing something. The classic I have seen I have heard called "the washing machine." Turn vertical teams into horizontal teams and vice versa. It just tumbles the organization all at once.
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