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Stultus Maximus posted:And target anything more specific than a time zone? Not really.
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Feb 12, 2023 03:05
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If you put a propeller on it it’s not a balloon anymore it’s a dirigible. But you’d need a heckuva prop to move something around in the jet stream, I think.
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Feb 12, 2023 03:08
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Cugel the Clever posted:I thought the initial balloon was alleged to be snooping on missile silos—did it just happen to get lucky in the jet stream to achieve the overflight? Posting out of my rear end (as usual), but couldn't you just slap a propeller on it to fine tune the course? Then it's a blimp.
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Feb 12, 2023 03:08
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facialimpediment posted:Highly likely the Chinese had some balloons and random drone-like loitering surveillance in the air for a long time. Our systems are probably set up to find fast-moving poo poo (jetliners, missiles) instead, then the Chinese lost control of their balloon. NORAD people were probably like "uh... why the gently caress didn't we see that", tuned their filters, and started finding slow, car-sized poo poo that was probably around for a while. And it's not exactly in China's interest to suddenly pull back their previously-undetected poo poo. Plus Joe's making a very clear statement
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Feb 12, 2023 03:12
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Stultus Maximus posted:Then it's a blimp. 
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Feb 12, 2023 03:16
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i still find it funny that we're more upset about balloons then we ever were officially upset about with USS Liberty
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Feb 12, 2023 03:19
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Nevermind about Montana! https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1624593417878528001?t=TF0HkaSqxMsRGdUmEBbZWQ&s=19 This is probably why NORAD didn't have their sensor thingies on the super-sensitive settings to begin with!
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Feb 12, 2023 03:24
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turning a big dial that says "Balloon Filter" on it and constantly looking back at the audience for approval like a contestant on the price is right
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Feb 12, 2023 03:49
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brains posted:turning a big dial that says "Balloon Filter" on it and constantly looking back at the audience for approval like a contestant on the price is right unironically exactly what seems to have happened facialimpediment posted:Nevermind about Montana! yeah, stuff is set up to ignore things that are not aircraft because "whoops that was swamp gas or a massive fart or a flock of migratory birds" etc. Opening the sensors up because congress got pissed about a balloon is going to lead to a lot of wasted intercepts. orange juche fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Feb 12, 2023 |
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Feb 12, 2023 03:52
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https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1624603115457597441?t=M2TsiG8IZlOsKdnAUAg9lg&s=19
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Feb 12, 2023 03:56
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What’s the cost of sending up a few F22s and the missiles(s) they fire compared to the balloons?
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Feb 12, 2023 04:00
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:What’s the cost of sending up a few F22s and the missiles(s) they fire compared to the balloons? the balloon cost is "how much does a mylar envelope and a canister of helium cost?", as they will float at around 60,000 feet with no other effort required. The F-22 is holy shitfuckingballs more expensive per hour. The big thing is whoever is floating the balloons is figuring out exactly how sensitive the detection systems that NORAD has are.
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Feb 12, 2023 04:06
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facialimpediment posted:And it's not exactly in China's interest to suddenly pull back their previously-undetected poo poo. Wait why wouldn’t it be in China’s interest to stop using them if they are being regularly shot down, especially after air defenses are tuned to find them? Seems pointless to keep violating airspace if they aren’t getting useful data, and would continue to increase tensions and not make China look great. AreWeDrunkYet posted:What’s the cost of sending up a few F22s and the missiles(s) they fire compared to the balloons? Probably significant number figure but just a rounding error to the DoD.
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Feb 12, 2023 04:07
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I just want to die as a grizzled old man in the intergalactic space war! I'll take either Starship Troopers or Randy Quaid ID4.
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Feb 12, 2023 04:09
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bulletsponge13 posted:A weekend of UFO shoot downs was not on my 2023 Bingo card https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CvURidpkCY
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Feb 12, 2023 04:29
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Hyrax Attack! posted:Wait why wouldn’t it be in China’s interest to stop using them if they are being regularly shot down, especially after air defenses are tuned to find them? Seems pointless to keep violating airspace if they aren’t getting useful data, and would continue to increase tensions and not make China look great. China can continue to figure out our general response times, what kind of poo poo we scramble/try to shoot down their stuff with (and if it works), and most importantly, the poo poo they have in the air that we still can't detect. Lots of intel value in all of that. Plus, Biden was making noises that all of this was being done without President Xi's knowledge, so it could be superhardliners that really want to increase the tensions in the first place. Really not about looking great at this point.
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Feb 12, 2023 04:32
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This is a false flag by the MIC to build a new aerial radar array or somesuch high expense boondogle. I can't imagine learning US response times is worth the smoke that would come from launching a bunch of balloons into US airspace. I wasn't aware that the US flew missions over Canada, however. Do we have some kind of standing joint defense resolution or something like that?
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Feb 12, 2023 04:38
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NORAD
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Feb 12, 2023 04:56
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facialimpediment posted:China can continue to figure out our general response times, what kind of poo poo we scramble/try to shoot down their stuff with (and if it works), and most importantly, the poo poo they have in the air that we still can't detect. Lots of intel value in all of that. Plus, Biden was making noises that all of this was being done without President Xi's knowledge, so it could be superhardliners that really want to increase the tensions in the first place. Really not about looking great at this point. I agree it is generating useful intelligence, but is also a very hostile act that is getting a lot of the US population and political establishment fearful and irritated which could lead to meaningful damage to China, far beyond the value of air defense data could be worth. I’d understand if the flights weren’t being detected, and I’m sure we are doing something similar, but Gary Powers being busted made the US lose a lot more face than the Soviets did. Grip it and rip it posted:I wasn't aware that the US flew missions over Canada, however. Do we have some kind of standing joint defense resolution or something like that? Yeah, Canadian airspace is part of NORAD as Canadian NORAD Region (CANR). Makes sense as any serious intrusion especially during the Cold War would likely be aimed at the US and it would be strongly in Canada’s interest to help, especially as they’d get the benefit of the world’s largest military budget for their national defense. Like why they don’t need a nuclear program and can have a relatively small Navy despite having the world’s longest coastline.
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Feb 12, 2023 05:08
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Hyrax Attack! posted:Yeah, Canadian airspace is part of NORAD as Canadian NORAD Region (CANR). Makes sense as any serious intrusion especially during the Cold War would likely be aimed at the US and it would be strongly in Canada’s interest to help, especially as they’d get the benefit of the world’s largest military budget for their national defense. Like why they don’t need a nuclear program and can have a relatively small Navy despite having the world’s longest coastline. And it gave us a good Rush song Distant Early Warning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrDj5XvZXX4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distant_Early_Warning_Line
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Feb 12, 2023 05:32
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:What’s the cost of sending up a few F22s and the missiles(s) they fire compared to the balloons? Probably under $10k for the balloon, and 95% of that going to whatever sensors it's carrying. You can get smaller surplus military/NOAA weather balloons for around $100, the most expensive component would probably be a satcom modem. Comedy option is it's all running off a Xiaomi Pro 13 in a pelican case and it just uploads whenever it gets a cell signal.
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Feb 12, 2023 12:11
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Hyrax Attack! posted:I agree it is generating useful intelligence, but is also a very hostile act that is getting a lot of the US population and political establishment fearful and irritated which could lead to meaningful damage to China, far beyond the value of air defense data could be worth. I’d understand if the flights weren’t being detected, and I’m sure we are doing something similar, but Gary Powers being busted made the US lose a lot more face than the Soviets did. Well the US literally said they’d shoot down the Russian bombers over our southern airspace if we didn’t join, and that’s where everyone live. As for the size of the navy, that’s more of a budget thing. Nobody has a navy the size of the US’s, coastline or not, because nobody spends that much on defence.
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Feb 12, 2023 14:15
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FrozenVent posted:If you put a propeller on it it’s not a balloon anymore it’s a dirigible. dirigibles have a rigid structure to which lighter than air floatation devices are attached. Think the Graf Zeppelin. A balloon that gets its shape from surface tension (like most balloons) that has some means of propulsion is a blimp.
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Feb 12, 2023 14:37
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FrozenVent posted:Well the US literally said they’d shoot down the Russian bombers over our southern airspace if we didn’t join, and that’s where everyone live.   #obey
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Feb 12, 2023 15:14
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FrozenVent posted:If you put a propeller on it it’s not a balloon anymore it’s a dirigible. Jet stream isn’t that high. At 60,000 feet plus, air currents are comparatively docile and slow.
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Feb 12, 2023 16:40
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https://www.cbsnews.com/news/turkey-earthquakes-building-contractors-arrested/ Normally, I'd be all about this. This screams "Turkey moves to cover up massive corruption and fraud scheme." e: In summary, Turkey rounded up 130 contractors for imprisonment in the wake of the earthquake within six days of it occurring. SquirrelyPSU fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Feb 12, 2023 |
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Feb 12, 2023 16:48
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I kinda feel like Turkey makes decisions on coin flips. At least they're not arresting seismologists and geologists, like Italy did a decade and change ago.
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Feb 12, 2023 16:58
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CRUSTY MINGE posted:I kinda feel like Turkey makes decisions on coin flips. I was about to bring up the Italy thing too
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Feb 12, 2023 17:20
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I feel like it's part of the validation behind the acceptability of racism against Italians in recent years. Or at least a close second behind the influence it's had on New Joisey. It's almost like they want all the old Polish jokes to become about themselves.
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Feb 12, 2023 17:37
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CRUSTY MINGE posted:I feel like it's part of the validation behind the acceptability of racism against Italians in recent years. Or at least a close second behind the influence it's had on New Joisey. It's almost like they want all the old Polish jokes to become about themselves. It has made more waves outside of Italy than Italy itself, people stopped taking/caring about it in country three months afterwards.
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Feb 12, 2023 17:44
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Rightfully so, though. What geologist or seismologist would even bother considering moving to Italy after that? It's like jailing firemen for fire existing. Not even the firemen, the dispatch officer that takes the call.
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Feb 12, 2023 17:56
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WTF, wrong thread
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Feb 12, 2023 18:00
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CRUSTY MINGE posted:
That sounds hosed up! Was it a case of morons in charge somehow thinking that the only reason disasters happened was that the seismologists and geologists weren't doing their jobs, like night watchman asleep at their desks while robbers freely come & go? (Cause that's kinda how dumbshits think about things like IT security) E: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/italian-scientists-get/ They were eventually acquitted/conviction overturned, after a judge originally sentenced them to six years each for manslaughter. The Eyes Have It fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Feb 12, 2023 |
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Feb 12, 2023 18:22
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Iirc something like the seismologists failed to warn them about the earthquake. Like that's a thing in Italy. It's only really a "thing" in Japan, and only in certain areas, with a very expensive field of sensors, and even then you might have a few minutes at best. And the japanese aren't charging scientists over random acts of nature.
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Feb 12, 2023 18:26
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CRUSTY MINGE posted:Rightfully so, though. What geologist or seismologist would even bother considering moving to Italy after that? It's like jailing firemen for fire existing. The people involved in that lawsuit were the ones that signed(here is a hint from a Italian public servant, never sign any document in any official capacity unless you have insurance to cover whatever damages will incur if you gently caress up) the certifications for the protezione civile(think a shittier FEMA) risk assessment. At the time the protezione civile boss (Bertolaso) was pretty much considered a saint so anything that would have made them look bad was to be destroyed. Seismologist and the like has always been the first people to be thrown under the bus but rarely in official form like Aquila, even in disasters like Vajont the geologists didn't catch as much flak as in 2012.
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Feb 12, 2023 18:29
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It wasn't a lawsuit, they were criminally charged and convicted of manslaughter.
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Feb 12, 2023 18:32
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McNally posted:It wasn't a lawsuit, they were criminally charged and convicted of manslaughter. Yeah, we use the equivalent word for lawsuit for both civil and penal charges proceedings in Italian, sorry if I miswrote. SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Feb 12, 2023 |
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Feb 12, 2023 18:37
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SlowBloke posted:(here is a hint from a Italian public servant, never sign any document in any official capacity unless you have insurance to cover whatever damages will incur if you gently caress up Don't do this in the US either. You sort of take it for granted as a junior guy, because most of the time its your boss's boss that's signing that stuff and they get insurance under the corporate umbrella. The company I started off at offered that umbrella to all employees with the caveat that you couldn't have a side hustle using your seal. Once out of that company I realized that was very much not industry standard. I sealed some minor things for the first time recently and, while fun as a novelty, I will be getting professional liability insurance in the future if I find myself in that situation again. SquirrelyPSU fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Feb 12, 2023 |
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Feb 12, 2023 18:50
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SlowBloke posted:Yeah, we use the equivalent word for lawsuit for both civil and penal charges proceedings in Italian, sorry if I miswrote. Ah, gotcha. In American English, a lawsuit is a civil action.
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Feb 12, 2023 18:57
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McNally posted:Ah, gotcha. In American English, a lawsuit is a civil action. Which begs the question, what is the American English term for penal charges? "Criminal charges brought" is what I came up with after a few minutes of thought. AP is probably the best arbiter of this.
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Feb 12, 2023 19:05
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