TG as an Industry: A pendulum swing against the excesses of Rule 0 culture

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > TG as an Industry: A pendulum swing against the excesses of Rule 0 culture

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Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

They're kind of a weird selection of words to begin with. The only one that's already the most common term for what it's describing is Wizard, otherwise Warrior / Thief / Priest seems a lot more intuitive.

Even D&D has bounced between different terms for categorizing or sub-categorizing player classes depending on which edition and version you're looking at.

1e AD&D - Magic-user
2e AD&D - Mage (category of Wizard)
3e D&D - Wizard

1e AD&D - Thief
2e AD&D - Thief (category of Rogue)
3e D&D - Rogue

I personally always preferred Mage, but when Sorceror was introduced in 3e I guess that was too generic? idk

# ? Feb 11, 2023 16:25

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# ? May 25, 2024 09:54

hyphz: Aug 5, 2003; Number 1 Nerd Tear Farmer 2022.

Keep it up, champ.

Also you're a skeleton warrior now. Kree.; Unlockable Ben

Ah, Cypher games love this. Vector / Nano / Spinner? Really?

# ? Feb 11, 2023 16:28

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

I have a vague recollection of a game where your stats were Fighter / Rogue / Mage, directly

# ? Feb 11, 2023 16:30

hyphz: Aug 5, 2003; Number 1 Nerd Tear Farmer 2022.

Keep it up, champ.

Also you're a skeleton warrior now. Kree.; Unlockable Ben

gradenko_2000 posted:

I have a vague recollection of a game where your stats were Fighter / Rogue / Mage, directly

Dungeon Master (the CRPG) did that I think..

# ? Feb 11, 2023 16:46

CitizenKeen: Nov 13, 2003; easygoing pedant

gradenko_2000 posted:

I have a vague recollection of a game where your stats were Fighter / Rogue / Mage, directly

It also used them for the name: Warrior, Rogue and Mage

# ? Feb 11, 2023 16:49

Jimbozig: Sep 30, 2003; I like sharing and ice cream and animals.

gradenko_2000 posted:

I have a vague recollection of a game where your stats were Fighter / Rogue / Mage, directly

I don't know, but that just got me started thinking about a silly little idea: 3-bit classes.

Your stats are magical/godly/naughty, and they are 1 or 0.

000 = fighter
001 = thief
010 = paladin
011 = ???
100 = wizard
101 = witch/warlock
110 = cleric
111 = necromancer?

What is 011?

# ? Feb 11, 2023 17:06

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Tybalt

# ? Feb 11, 2023 17:07

Adeptus: May 1, 2009

Jimbozig posted:

What is 011?

My vote's for Bard.

# ? Feb 11, 2023 17:08

Magnetic North: Dec 15, 2008; Beware the Forest's Mushrooms

Jimbozig posted:

What is 011?

Televangelist.

# ? Feb 11, 2023 17:11

Countblanc: Apr 20, 2005; _{Help a hero out!}

Belmont

# ? Feb 11, 2023 17:13

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Jimbozig posted:

I don't know, but that just got me started thinking about a silly little idea: 3-bit classes.

Your stats are magical/godly/naughty, and they are 1 or 0.

000 = fighter
001 = thief
010 = paladin
011 = ???
100 = wizard
101 = witch/warlock
110 = cleric
111 = necromancer?

What is 011?

I'd have put warlock in 011, witches 100, and wizards are obviously 101.

# ? Feb 11, 2023 17:25

CitizenKeen: Nov 13, 2003; easygoing pedant

With all the time this thread spends obsessing over 4E, it should be obvious that 011 is the Avenger.

# ? Feb 11, 2023 17:30

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

The problem is whether an absence of naughty necessarily implies the presence of nice. Clearly we need 3-trit class system, perhaps represented visually with some form of cube.

# ? Feb 11, 2023 17:36

GlyphGryph: Jun 23, 2013; Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.

Splicer posted:

The problem is whether an absence of naughty necessarily implies the presence of nice.

No, you're reading it wrong, we're trying to identify the class that has maxed out naughtiness AND niceness but no magical ability.

# ? Feb 11, 2023 17:57

Lemniscate Blue: Apr 21, 2006; Here we go again.

# ? Feb 11, 2023 18:00

homullus: Mar 27, 2009

Lemniscate Blue posted:

# ? Feb 11, 2023 18:21

Gravitas Shortfall: Jul 17, 2007; Utility is seven-eighths Proximity.

homullus posted:

# ? Feb 11, 2023 18:43

hyphz: Aug 5, 2003; Number 1 Nerd Tear Farmer 2022.

Keep it up, champ.

Also you're a skeleton warrior now. Kree.; Unlockable Ben

Now that comic had some good ideas for changing up the standard classes.

# ? Feb 11, 2023 18:46

CitizenKeen: Nov 13, 2003; easygoing pedant

Lemniscate Blue posted:

How do I read this chart? Is it saying that a Wizard is a 10 Fighter?

# ? Feb 11, 2023 18:49

Lemniscate Blue: Apr 21, 2006; Here we go again.

Gravitas Shortfall posted:

What comic is this?

# ? Feb 11, 2023 18:59

hyphz: Aug 5, 2003; Number 1 Nerd Tear Farmer 2022.

Keep it up, champ.

Also you're a skeleton warrior now. Kree.; Unlockable Ben

Lemniscate Blue posted:

What comic is this?

DIE.

# ? Feb 11, 2023 19:06

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

What was that company who was going to �publish a timeline� about a series of lovely events and just never did and people forgot about it (apparently including me)?

# ? Feb 11, 2023 19:07

Lamuella: Jun 26, 2003; It's like goldy or bronzy, but made of iron.

hyphz posted:

Now that comic had some good ideas for changing up the standard classes.

They work pretty well in the rpg too. Haven't played it yet but it's very well constructed.

# ? Feb 11, 2023 19:08

Cassius Belli: May 22, 2010; horny is prohibited

Subjunctive posted:

What was that company who was going to �publish a timeline� about a series of lovely events and just never did and people forgot about it (apparently including me)?

Green Ronin, regarding their association with C. A. Suleiman. Searching this thread for Ronin Timeline will turn up more details.

# ? Feb 11, 2023 19:14

admanb: Jun 18, 2014

Subjunctive posted:

What was that company who was going to �publish a timeline� about a series of lovely events and just never did and people forgot about it (apparently including me)?

No, that was Green Ronin Publishing.

Who, iirc, did sever their business relationship with the outed predator, and the timeline was supposedly going to explain why one of their executives(?) went hard defending him.

# ? Feb 11, 2023 19:17

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

Right! Thanks!

# ? Feb 11, 2023 19:23

Lemniscate Blue: Apr 21, 2006; Here we go again.

CitizenKeen posted:

How do I read this chart? Is it saying that a Wizard is a 10 Fighter?

I started to write a thing about how to read a triangle chart and then realized that this one is actually pretty badly made as a triangle chart so it got too complicated and confusing. The short answer is no, the horizontal lines apply to the fighter axis so a Wizard is max "mage" min "rogue" and "fighter". That's just how a triangle chart works, but it's hard to wrap your head around it the first time you see one.

I used to have to dedicate half of a class period or more to making sure my environmental science students could read the soil texture triangle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXp8Lg0SFPQ

# ? Feb 11, 2023 19:24

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Subjunctive posted:

What was that company who was going to �publish a timeline� about a series of lovely events and just never did and people forgot about it (apparently including me)?

Was that Green Ronin? Over something involving C.A. Suleiman?

That'll teach me to not hit refresh.

# ? Feb 11, 2023 19:35

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

GlyphGryph posted:

No, you're reading it wrong, we're trying to identify the class that has maxed out naughtiness AND niceness but no magical ability.

If you think godlyness and niceness are synonyms then I have some bad news about most of human history, both actual and mythic.

# ? Feb 11, 2023 21:49

Farg: Nov 19, 2013

SirFozzie posted:

This is how the whole thing turned out:

Shareholders: MAKE NUMBER GO UP.

Execs: Well, we have the 50th anniversary edition of OneDnD coming in 2024. We're playtesting One D&D now for it's release

Shareholders: Too slow. MAKE NUMBER GO UP FASTER.

Execs: Um, we have D&D Beyond...

Shareholders: DOES THAT MAKE NUMBER GO UP FASTER?

Execs: Maybe?

Shareholders: MAYBE IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. MAKE NUMBER GO UP. FAST.

Jock Exec: That's because we're not doing enough to monetize our brand

Exec: Wha? We're the highest selling brand of RPG's out there..

Jock Exec: Precisely. RPG's are D&D. D&D are RPG's. If people are playing RPG's it's because of D&D. They need to pay us. Besides, look at all the D&D WE'RE not getting paid for..

Exec: Like what?

Jock Exec: Critical Role. Third Party supplements. Other RPG systems. They're taking money from us, and I want their lunch money, just like the old days..

Execs: Um, you may not want to annoy gamers..

Jock Exec: What are going to do, complain? Throw a few of them in lockers, and they'll fold. Switch em all to a subscription. If they want to play online, they have to use us. That way we get paid every month instead of on a release schedule. If they don't pay us, they can't play D&D and thus can't play RPGs.

Execs: This is a bad idea...

Shareholders (Holding up a Cthulhu like tentacle) Wait. Pay us every month? THIS MAKES NUMBER GO UP?

Jock Exec: Yes.

Shareholder: DO IT. MAKE NUMBER GO UP.

(a couple weeks later)

Shareholders (now looking angry/hungry): NUMBER HAS NOT GONE UP. NUMBER HAS GONE DOWN. WHAT HAPPENED TO NUMBER GOING UP?

Jock Exec (sweating): It's just a temporary setback, by a few online folks

Exec: Who have caused Number Going Down because they don't like our plans to wall them in and change the paradigm.

Jock Exec: They'll fold. They have to, what are they going to do, not play D&D?

Exec: Just about every D&D adjacent book has done record sales.

Shareholders: WAIT. (eldritch symbols appear)

Jock Exec: ooooh boy.

Shareholders: SO YOU SAY THAT OUR NUMBER GOES DOWN AND OTHERS NUMBERS GO UP BECAUSE OF THIS PLAN?

Jock Exec (weakly) no

Execs: (loudly) Yes.

Shareholders: Then fix. NUMBER MUST GO UP.

Jock Exec: (crying) but our monetization... We can't let them terrorize us out of this..

Execs: By terrorize, you mean, not buying our stuff, and buy other people's stuff?

Jock Exec: Yes?

Shareholders: WE HAVE HEARD ENOUGH. TELL GAMER PEOPLE THAT THEY DID NOT CHANGE OUR PLAN, THEN CHANGE PLAN. JOCK EXEC, PLEASE COME WITH US. BRING TARTAR SAUCE. WE HUNGER.

Jock Exec: Does this mean I don't get a golden parachute?

i dont think this happened at all

# ? Feb 12, 2023 00:50

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

homullus posted:

This got an out-loud chuckle from me and an embarrassing attempt at explaining the joke to my spouse, well done.

# ? Feb 12, 2023 01:11

Bruceski: Aug 21, 2007; The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Farg posted:

i dont think this happened at all

But they made silly voices and everything, it must be true!

# ? Feb 12, 2023 01:20

Megazver: Jan 13, 2006

i thought it was a mild wholesome chuckle, stop bullying them

# ? Feb 12, 2023 01:38

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

011 is Rasputin (Russia's Greatest Love Machine)

# ? Feb 12, 2023 09:28

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

The classes should clearly be Hero, Homeless Guy and Detective.

# ? Feb 12, 2023 10:53

Improbable Lobster: Jan 6, 2012; "From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.; Buglord

Megazver posted:

i thought it was a mild wholesome chuckle, stop bullying them

Wholesome?

# ? Feb 12, 2023 12:28

Megazver: Jan 13, 2006

sensible, sorry

# ? Feb 12, 2023 12:42

moths: Aug 25, 2004; I would also still appreciate some danger.

Suits inevitably make stupid decisions about somebody else making (what they think should be) their money.

GW and Chapterhouse, Privateer Press and their Chinese manufacturers, White Wolf/MET and the LARP circuit, and now WotC and the entire peripheral D&D industry.

# ? Feb 12, 2023 15:18