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Vermain posted:My suspicion re: Viera/Hroth is that they've deliberately decided against trying to expand their available headgear under the current system due to how difficult it is to make any non-full hats look good, and are instead saving any efforts for a revamp of how the system actually handles them in 7.0. Time will obviously tell, but I think their calculation is that any effort put into a broken system now is going to have be redone under a fixed system later, so it's better to wait until you have something workable and reprioritize your resources elsewhere. The graphics engine overhaul in 7.0 probably has something to do with it, yeah. If (if) there's already a plan in mind to fix everything related to catdad and bunny heads then, reworking every hat for them right now is probably near the bottom of the project priority list. And one random guy on the internet who can spend a few months of his free time creating a mod for it isn't a good comparison with internal art team employees who have due dates and probably other work that they've been told is higher priority.
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Feb 12, 2023 23:29
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Vermain posted:My suspicion re: Viera/Hroth is that they've deliberately decided against trying to expand their available headgear under the current system due to how difficult it is to make any non-full hats look good, and are instead saving any efforts for a revamp of how the system actually handles them in 7.0. Time will obviously tell, but I think their calculation is that any effort put into a broken system now is going to have be redone under a fixed system later, so it's better to wait until you have something workable and reprioritize your resources elsewhere. Would hardly be the first time there's an issue the playerbase constantly whines about and accuses the devs of being lazy/incompetent/indifferent over that gets fixed entirely over one single patch or new expansion.
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Feb 13, 2023 00:23
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Thundarr posted:The graphics engine overhaul in 7.0 probably has something to do with it, yeah. If (if) there's already a plan in mind to fix everything related to catdad and bunny heads then, reworking every hat for them right now is probably near the bottom of the project priority list. Also said random guy doesn't give a poo poo if everything clips to hell and back (I've seen those mods, they're abysmal for hair/ear clipping) while the art team would be rightly roasted over an open fire for doing the same.
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Feb 13, 2023 00:58
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Devs would also be working within the limitations of foresight of possible future changes where they're trying to future-proof their stuff to a degree, while mods can break whatever until some future patch breaks the mod.
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Feb 13, 2023 01:19
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they probably should take all the battle design team and re-assign them to the art team though. the skills transfer
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Feb 13, 2023 01:47
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I think it's understandable that fixing every old hat work with the new races would be a tremendous amount of work but I do not understand why they keep making new hats that Hrothgar and Viera can't wear
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Feb 13, 2023 01:54
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probably the same reason we have a valentines day event going on that's all about how important it is to express yourself specifically by mode of dress and gender expression that then dumps gender locked gear on you unfortunately smol bean indie startup square enix just can't afford to staff the team properly
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Feb 13, 2023 02:00
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Tekopo posted:P8SP1 is so bad but P2 is so very good. Yes, I wouldn't mind having another place where I can complain about savage raids
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Feb 13, 2023 02:00
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It’s entirely possible that the Valentine’s Day set isn’t new assets, which is why it isn’t rigged for both sexes and/or viera and hroth?
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Feb 13, 2023 02:03
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They just finished spending a whole lot of dev time making holiday sets from previous years equippable cross gender. I'd wager they'll have the new sets fixed by the next patch.
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Feb 13, 2023 02:05
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MadFriarAvelyn posted:They just finished spending a whole lot of dev time making holiday sets from previous years equippable cross gender. I'd wager they'll have the new sets fixed by the next patch. Maybe not next patch, but probably before 6.x is done. It's just unfortunate that it wasn't unlocked at release given the theme of the event.
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Feb 13, 2023 02:11
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Kwyndig posted:Also said random guy doesn't give a poo poo if everything clips to hell and back (I've seen those mods, they're abysmal for hair/ear clipping) while the art team would be rightly roasted over an open fire for doing the same. The one I use makes custom models so that there isn’t clipping and even edited some F!Viera ears to fit better but generally yeah the mods just tick the show on Viera button and let the ears clip and call it a day.
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Feb 13, 2023 02:28
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Thundarr posted:Maybe not next patch, but probably before 6.x is done. It's just unfortunate that it wasn't unlocked at release given the theme of the event. It's so that you too can go through the painful process of wearing an outfit that doesn't fit, and then experience the joy of finally getting to wear what's right for your soul. But yeah it'll get fixed soon probably
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Feb 13, 2023 02:31
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Tamba posted:
grats gamer
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Feb 13, 2023 03:59
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It's fun to spot re-used skeletons, I just noticed another one. P6 is the same model as E8S. The neck's what I pinged on. 
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Feb 13, 2023 04:48
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I'm curious what the overreation by the design team is going to be to this tier, since there has been a ton of criticism about it from the start. 7s and 8s part one were both awful to prog: 7s especially was extremely boring until the last 2 mins (which is abysmal since there's like...9 minutes of just tankbusters!). And then you have 8s part 2 which was very snappy, with very original mechanics and probably the only remotely challenging healing checks I've seen in savage. Hopefully we aren't going back to healers being afk for 99% of the fight again; however, I know pf is clamoring again for that.
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Feb 13, 2023 04:50
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Firebert posted:I'm curious what the overreation by the design team is going to be to this tier, since there has been a ton of criticism about it from the start. 7s and 8s part one were both awful to prog: 7s especially was extremely boring until the last 2 mins (which is abysmal since there's like...9 minutes of just tankbusters!). And then you have 8s part 2 which was very snappy, with very original mechanics and probably the only remotely challenging healing checks I've seen in savage. Hopefully we aren't going back to healers being afk for 99% of the fight again; however, I know pf is clamoring again for that. 7 would be such a good fight if you just spread the harvest out throughout the fight like Relativity in E12S's second half. I'm hoping for just 12 savage to just be weird and new from the get go. No split fight just make it original from the get go.
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Feb 13, 2023 04:53
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:7 would be such a good fight if you just spread the harvest out throughout the fight like Relativity in E12S's second half. It would still be overly long, but yeah it would improve the fight markedly. There's a reason why they should put all of the interesting mechanics like 3 mins into the fight! Light rampant sucked but you saw it very quickly in prog!
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Feb 13, 2023 04:59
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Firebert posted:It would still be overly long, but yeah it would improve the fight markedly. There's a reason why they should put all of the interesting mechanics like 3 mins into the fight! Light rampant sucked but you saw it very quickly in prog! I'm fine on the length of it, especially with how much of a blitz 5 and 6 were even during early prog (I think we cleared both without ever seeing the enrage timers) it's the pacing of it that kills it.
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Feb 13, 2023 05:01
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Bruceski posted:It's fun to spot re-used skeletons, I just noticed another one. Going to be overly cautious with EW spoilers here but: The omicrons reuse FFXI's caturae skeletons.  
Kazy fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Feb 13, 2023 |
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Feb 13, 2023 05:09
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kitten emergency posted:It’s entirely possible that the Valentine’s Day set isn’t new assets, which is why it isn’t rigged for both sexes and/or viera and hroth? Male roegadyn have just the same problems as male hrothgar. It's clearly more a matter of 'they weren't able to put in the work for the more extremely varied body types', and unlike a lot of the playerbase, the developers actually do remember that hrothgar and male roegadyn exist and can't be considered an afterthought.
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Feb 13, 2023 05:16
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Another thing to remember about the hat stuff and lot of other little QOL tweaks is that they're still having to support the decade-old PS4 and its limits, and they've made no secret about how many weird kludges they've had to make to keep things under the memory limits. It wouldn't surprise me in the least that they have to use Exactly This Many Bytes and no more or else the entire game breaks, while meanwhile it doesn't matter one bit modding it in on a PC since you don't have to worry about any of that. If they ever drop PS4 support you'll probably see a lot of QOL stuff dropping all at once, kind of like what happened when they ditched PS3 access.
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Feb 13, 2023 07:25
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Asimo posted:Another thing to remember about the hat stuff and lot of other little QOL tweaks is that they're still having to support the decade-old PS4 and its limits, and they've made no secret about how many weird kludges they've had to make to keep things under the memory limits. It wouldn't surprise me in the least that they have to use Exactly This Many Bytes and no more or else the entire game breaks, while meanwhile it doesn't matter one bit modding it in on a PC since you don't have to worry about any of that. If they ever drop PS4 support you'll probably see a lot of QOL stuff dropping all at once, kind of like what happened when they ditched PS3 access. eh Memory Limits™ was mostly a PS3 issue. PS4 has 8GB of combined memory to work worth (PS3 was 512MB combined). PS4 isn't really holding the game back in anyways, because they're still going to design for PCs that also only have 8GB of RAM. The biggest thing holding back QoL updates is probably spaghetti code combined with the lack of man hours to focus on it. New things are always going to be prioritized over QoL, because people sub for new stuff and not-so-much for QoL updates.
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Feb 13, 2023 07:30
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Asimo posted:Another thing to remember about the hat stuff and lot of other little QOL tweaks is that they're still having to support the decade-old PS4 and its limits, and they've made no secret about how many weird kludges they've had to make to keep things under the memory limits. It wouldn't surprise me in the least that they have to use Exactly This Many Bytes and no more or else the entire game breaks, while meanwhile it doesn't matter one bit modding it in on a PC since you don't have to worry about any of that. If they ever drop PS4 support you'll probably see a lot of QOL stuff dropping all at once, kind of like what happened when they ditched PS3 access. New Vegas is famous for poo poo that doesn’t work because PS3/360 memory limits that you can mod out really easily on PC. New Vegas modded is famously a very stable application. Also, being an MMO, you’re targeting people playing the game on potato computers just as much as you are targeting people playing on a NASA supercomputer.
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Feb 13, 2023 07:31
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the game being old as gently caress, hastily built on the smoldering ruins of 1.0 in hardcore crunch conditions, and microsoft excel 97 probably being a critical development tool definitely aren't doing anyone any favours yeah
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Feb 13, 2023 07:35
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Oneiros posted:and microsoft excel 97 probably being a critical development tool if there's a story here and not just a joke, I would love to hear it
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Feb 13, 2023 07:39
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Volkova III posted:if there's a story here and not just a joke, I would love to hear it Yoshi-P did all his director planning stuff for ARR in one enormous Microsoft Excel worksheet after realizing there was basically no planning of 1.0 beyond the broad strokes. quote:In the No Clip documentary, Yoshida explains that, in order to meet the impossible deadline for A Realm Reborn, he broke every development task into its smallest constituent parts and then had each developer give a minimum and a maximum estimate for how long it might take to complete. All of that was collected into an enormous spreadsheet that factored in everything from meetings to bathroom breaks to give Yoshida a complete yet granular view of FF14’s development. https://www.pcgamer.com/how-final-fantasy-14-clawed-its-way-back-from-disaster-to-become-2020s-best-mmo/ Luigi Thirty fucked around with this message at 07:44 on Feb 13, 2023 |
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Feb 13, 2023 07:42
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it's a half-joke but iirc there's been some mention of excel (probably not 97) being used for a lot of things it really shouldn't be so, you know, standard excel usage <e> also yeah apparently yoship had an incredible excel planning the 2.0 rebuild/launch
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Feb 13, 2023 07:43
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Volkova III posted:if there's a story here and not just a joke, I would love to hear it All of the static reference values for things like conversation strings, item properties, etc. are accessed via several massive Excel spreadsheets, which require specialized plugins to make them operational due to them exceeding the basic size limit of Excel. I'm told it was apparently fairly common practice in Japan for a long time, but I couldn't say for sure.
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Feb 13, 2023 07:44
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Vermain posted:All of the static reference values for things like conversation strings, item properties, etc. are accessed via several massive Excel spreadsheets, which require specialized plugins to make them operational due to them exceeding the basic size limit of Excel. I'm told it was apparently fairly common practice in Japan for a long time, but I couldn't say for sure. Abusing Excel is a proud Japanese business pastime, yeah. https://twitter.com/ndr_tw/status/1106852946182955008 It’s something to do with how natural it is to format fixed-width text in Excel as opposed to Word and that it’s easier to produce consistent documents of consistent size for faxing around. Now there are a lot of businesses that do everything in Excel because that’s just How It’s Done. Luigi Thirty fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Feb 13, 2023 |
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Feb 13, 2023 07:45
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Macaluso posted:Shoulda made hats work instead of the new Ultimate IMO If you zoom out far enough you wouldn't even notice the ears clipping.
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Feb 13, 2023 08:29
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Alder posted:We got new island hairs a few months ago. Delayed response, but those cuts came in 6.2. I feel like they've done at least one new haircut for every patch as far back as I can remember, my question is if they've started skipping to expand V and H cuts.
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Feb 13, 2023 10:23
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Emzedoh posted:Delayed response, but those cuts came in 6.2. I feel like they've done at least one new haircut for every patch as far back as I can remember, my question is if they've started skipping to expand V and H cuts.
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Feb 13, 2023 10:43
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Client-side databases are all worked on in Excel, ranging from stuff like all the text displayed in the client to the range of Provoke. You can see all this data dumped into csv form in this github repo. The databases are exported to a proprietary binary format when they're shipped with the client. We know the data is stored in Excel sheets because all the client code that accesses them is named poo poo like ExcelModule and in one of the many developer interviews/presentations (think GDC-style, but somewhere in Japan, iirc) they've actually shown one of the sheets, although I can't be hosed to go find the images right now. A benefit here is that it allows people who know gently caress all about how the game client actually works to edit all kinds of data, and they were able to rapidly spin it up without a bunch of custom tooling. The Excel code itself lives outside the client namespace which suggests it originates in another project. The 2.0 client really isn't all that spaghetti. There's basically none of 1.0 left over, its probably got more stuff adapted from DQ10 then 1.0. Nearly everything I've reverse engineered in the client makes sense. There is some pretty funny hard coded action stuff (mudras, loss-of-control status effects, some other one offs) though. There's a quote from the FF16 dev team that they initially used UE4 for the game then moved to an upgraded version of FF14 (presumably since they were more familiar with it). If that's actually true - and we won't really find out until 16 comes out on PC - I wouldn't be surprised if the 7.0 update is mostly backporting some of FF16's rendering upgrades to 14. This isn't really magic though since they can't really take advantage of it without updating every single texture in the game and obviously 14 is still a PS4 game and 16 isn't.
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Feb 13, 2023 12:41
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aers posted:Client-side databases are all worked on in Excel, ranging from stuff like all the text displayed in the client to the range of Provoke. You can see all this data dumped into csv form in this github repo. The databases are exported to a proprietary binary format when they're shipped with the client. I'd like to add that this is not unusual. Well, perhaps their direct export of an excel sheet to an internal data sheet is but the use of excel is not at all. Excel is like the biggest non bespoke game design tool and its not even close. You take spreadsheets away from game designers and the videogame industry will collapse overnight.
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Feb 13, 2023 12:45
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Tzarnal posted:You take spreadsheets away
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Feb 13, 2023 12:47
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I think the example I saw was that the path over the disappearing floor from the last boss of Dohn Mheg is drawn in excel
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Feb 13, 2023 17:29
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to be honest i prefer p8s phase 1 over phase 2. phase 2 just feels very brains off for nearly everything outside of Natural AlignmentFirebert posted:Hopefully we aren't going back to healers being afk for 99% of the fight again; however, I know pf is clamoring again for that. i know there's been a bit of healer flight in pf as the scrubs got filtered out, but is that an actual popular opinion? virtually every healer main and tank main i talked to enjoyed actually getting to push their kit more instead of the usual old "time to hit the ogcd aoe heal/reprisal" spiel that made up the first tier
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Feb 13, 2023 17:50
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P8SP1 is janky in a bad way, and I don't particularly find gaze mechanisms all that interesting personally. P8SP2 is really inventive, and is easier in that it is a puzzle fight rather than an execution fight, but is still interesting to reclear unlike other puzzle fights such as (slight spoiler) Endsinger EX. The only time I enjoyed that fight was when I was doing it blind and hated it afterwards.
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Feb 13, 2023 18:03
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I wanna get back into ex3 because I think the weapons look okay but also I've been visited by a time traveler from the future and they tell me the glow that the crafted version gets will kick rear end when they come out in 6.5
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