|
Vulture Culture posted:Pedigree doesn't matter. I'm not even sure that impact matters once you start putting big companies on the resume, because so much is due to chance and circumstance and how well your particular team is supported and positioned to thread political needles. If you work in developer tooling, platforms, engineering productivity, what I'm gonna be looking for as a resume screener or hiring manager is your ability to be an agent of change, to identify improvements and get them done, and to keep pushing even when the company is dead-set on just doing whatever it's always done. Well, this is going to be a problem. I don't really have a lot of pull or influence, and I don't have the latitude to go off and do my own thing. Every year I tell my team lead and manager I want more feature design, more responsibility, more latitude to tackle it as I see fit, and every year I get a head nod and then nothing comes of it. At the same time, since my title isn't team lead or architect, I feel like I'm stepping out of line whenever I contradict the people who do, and that means if I want to have impact, I need to work many more hours implementing what I want to happen entirely by myself in order to build an ironclad case that it will be good and not cost extra developer hours, all in addition to working on what they want me working on, which they keep piling on in terms of routine feature work, presentations, support, etc. So I just feel like a junior developer. That's going to make this a lot harder, because I have way too much experience for my capabilities.
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 17:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 22:02 |
|
|
carry on then posted:Well, this is going to be a problem. I don't really have a lot of pull or influence, and I don't have the latitude to go off and do my own thing. Every year I tell my team lead and manager I want more feature design, more responsibility, more latitude to tackle it as I see fit, and every year I get a head nod and then nothing comes of it. At the same time, since my title isn't team lead or architect, I feel like I'm stepping out of line whenever I contradict the people who do, and that means if I want to have impact, I need to work many more hours implementing what I want to happen entirely by myself in order to build an ironclad case that it will be good and not cost extra developer hours, all in addition to working on what they want me working on, which they keep piling on in terms of routine feature work, presentations, support, etc. So I just feel like a junior developer. That's going to make this a lot harder, because I have way too much experience for my capabilities. Then just stay at your current job forever and never try anything different I guess 
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 17:46
|
|
|
Jose Valasquez posted:Then just stay at your current job forever and never try anything different I guess I mean, that's what I'm literally stuck doing. As the poster just established, I don't have enough skills for my experience and it sends a very negative signal. Hope I don't get laid off! e: if table stakes is "how many times did you single handedly change the direction of your team" my answer is zero, and I don't project it's going up any time soon. I've got too much to do as it is. carry on then fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Feb 14, 2023 |
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 17:49
|
|
|
what are the steps you have taken to get a therapist or get prescribed antidepressants
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 17:50
|
|
|
carry on then posted:Every year I tell my team lead and manager I want more feature design, more responsibility, more latitude to tackle it as I see fit, and every year I get a head nod and then nothing comes of it. At the same time, since my title isn't team lead or architect, I feel like I'm stepping out of line whenever I contradict the people who do, and that means if I want to have impact, I need to work many more hours implementing what I want to happen entirely by myself in order to build an ironclad case that it will be good and not cost extra developer hours, all in addition to working on what they want me working on, which they keep piling on in terms of routine feature work, presentations, support, etc. Just say this in the interview. This is like perfect fodder for spinning negatives into positives. "Why are you looking for a new job?" "I want more responsibility, more autonomy, more ability to make an impact towards the success of the company."
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 17:55
|
|
|
sim posted:Just say this in the interview. This is like perfect fodder for spinning negatives into positives. A+
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 18:05
|
|
|
carry on then posted:Well, this is going to be a problem. I don't really have a lot of pull or influence, and I don't have the latitude to go off and do my own thing. Every year I tell my team lead and manager I want more feature design, more responsibility, more latitude to tackle it as I see fit, and every year I get a head nod and then nothing comes of it. At the same time, since my title isn't team lead or architect, I feel like I'm stepping out of line whenever I contradict the people who do, and that means if I want to have impact, I need to work many more hours implementing what I want to happen entirely by myself in order to build an ironclad case that it will be good and not cost extra developer hours, all in addition to working on what they want me working on, which they keep piling on in terms of routine feature work, presentations, support, etc. So I just feel like a junior developer. That's going to make this a lot harder, because I have way too much experience for my capabilities. Leadership isn't dictation. And it's not something that happens to you. You need to work on your personal poo poo. I would no hire someone with the type of negativity you're bringing to the table because it's likely a drain on morale. You also seem like someone that takes a lot of energy to manage, which isn't what I'm generally looking for. You also don't sound like someone that's very good at hiding this behavioral pattern through a series of interviews. Get therapy. Figure out yourself and how to be happy. Or at least content. After that, try to figure out why you're stuck following and what it means to lead. But until you sort your issues out that won't matter.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 18:06
|
|
|
carry on then posted:I mean, that's what I'm literally stuck doing. The only thing keeping you where you are is you. Even if your estimate of how interviewers in other companies would value your skills was accurate (which it's not), there is nothing stopping you from developing more skills either at your current job or outside of work. Ultimately, it comes down to this question: do you want to make your life better, or do you just want to complain about it? And if it's the latter, then this thread is not a thread where we give emotional support. Go to E/N for that.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 18:17
|
|
|
Therapy won't make me not an uncreative sheep who can't lead. I just don't know how to change that without either getting fired or burning out or both. It sounds like the skill I need to build is leadership but I don't know where or how to do that. Like, I get that it's not dictation, but it still requires having better ideas than everyone else. They don't teach better ideas in school and I guess I missed when I was supposed to be learning them already. I guess my question is how do I practice leadership when I'm expected to follow directions? carry on then fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Feb 14, 2023 |
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 18:33
|
|
|
So is this just a humiliation fetish? If not, get therapy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 18:37
|
|
|
Have you ever thought about working on a little personal project to shore up your skills? This doesn't take another 40 hours a week to do. I did it for my last job hunt, 2 hours Saturday mornings, 2 hours Sunday mornings, barely ever affecting existing weekend plans. After a little while I had a personal project that could demonstrate all the things my last job didn't let me do much of. I even dare say it was fun.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 18:42
|
|
|
carry on then posted:Therapy won't make me not an uncreative sheep who can't lead.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 18:46
|
|
|
what did your boss say when you told them that you would like to take on more leadership responsibilities?
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 18:54
|
|
|
carry on then posted:I guess my question is how do I practice leadership when I'm expected to follow directions? If you are stifled in attempts to grow in your current position - and that includes not being given the opportunities to grow your design and leadership skills - then you will need to change positions in order to grow - either internally to your current company or somewhere else. The immediate moment may not be the best timing, but you can commit to the eventual course of action - to look for an environment more supportive of your growth - and bide your time until the right moment. If you truly are at a place that won't let you grow your design or leadership skills and you choose not to act then you are going to be stuck in place forever.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 18:58
|
|
|
Achmed Jones posted:what did your boss say when you told them that you would like to take on more leadership responsibilities? When I raised the concern that given our feature roadmaps it looked like I'd be doing routine work all this year, the response was something to the effect of, I'll keep that in mind, but we all have to eat the poo poo sandwich sometimes and do the routine work, and it wouldn't be fair to the rest of the team. I didn't argue, but right now half the team is currently researching and designing the next new interesting feature, and the rest of the other half is gaining responsibilities outside the team. I had one solo project last year that went well but didn't really make much of a splash publicly. I think I'm viewed as someone who will always work what I'm assigned and never complain, while still finding time to bring knowledge to the team and do community presentations, while also being the one in charge of the support queue. I'm guessing there's a resistance to letting me get too far afield for too long, because it might open an opportunity to leave the team and then they wouldn't have me handling the support.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 19:16
|
|
|
carry on then posted:I used the wrong term then. Whoever is looking at resumes deciding who to call for interviews. Since the name is known to be bad, they'll read it, roll their eyes, think "oh yeah, that's what our product really needs, to get older, more bloated, and slower". Crumple crumple crumple. I'm a resume-looker who put in a decade in the Java mines working on the nastiest bloated enterprise apps. If I see a resume like that my reaction would be "cool, a company I actually heard of" before I look at the bullet points of what you actually did there. If anyone in the technical interviews says "I didn't like this guy because he touched a web sphere" then they're going to get a stern talking to about interview rubrics and bias.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 19:16
|
|
|
carry on then posted:When I raised the concern that given our feature roadmaps it looked like I'd be doing routine work all this year, the response was something to the effect of, I'll keep that in mind, but we all have to eat the poo poo sandwich sometimes and do the routine work, and it wouldn't be fair to the rest of the team. I didn't argue, but right now half the team is currently researching and designing the next new interesting feature, and the rest of the other half is gaining responsibilities outside the team. I had one solo project last year that went well but didn't really make much of a splash publicly.  Lots of people have given you lots of good advice on how you could use your experience to get a better job. Listen to them and do that.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 19:31
|
|
|
carry on then posted:Therapy won't make me not an uncreative sheep who can't lead. I just don't know how to change that without either getting fired or burning out or both. It sounds like the skill I need to build is leadership but I don't know where or how to do that. Like, I get that it's not dictation, but it still requires having better ideas than everyone else. They don't teach better ideas in school and I guess I missed when I was supposed to be learning them already. Think about what you want to do and then think about what conditions would make that happen. This way you reduce a big vague problem to smaller slightly less vague problems. Keep doing this till the smaller problems are simple enough that you can just do them and then go down the list and do them all.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 19:46
|
|
|
oliveoil posted:Think about what you want to do and then think about what conditions would make that happen. This way you reduce a big vague problem to smaller slightly less vague problems. Keep doing this till the smaller problems are simple enough that you can just do them and then go down the list and do them all. I mean, I know how to take a high-level approach, or even just a problem, and work down to concrete solutions. My struggles are with identifying problems I can solve, or coming up with new capabilities I think our product should have, as well as trying to convince people they're worth pursuing in the face of a full backlog of things we already have buy-in from product management for. I've never been good at pushing past that initial denial in the rare case I do have something I think we should do.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 19:54
|
|
|
I think there also value in looking at what you CAN change, doing it, then crowing about it. I was in a similar position to you a year ago, where I wanted to be a lead but didn’t know how to stand out. How I stood out - without even really “making someone see it my way” or “convince someone of this or that” was to look at my systems critically and make some good changes. Like, I think we don’t have enough tools for reliably reproducing bugs in one of my features, so I wrote a test suite for QC to use. Told my boss all about it, talked about it in standups, etc. Literally nobody has EVER used that test suite but it got called out on my review that year as a great initiative and made me look like someone who has opinions about how we should be doing things. This year my review was all about trying to find a lead position for me in the org (I did other similar things throughout the year as well, it’s not like you just do one thing and you’re set). PS don’t tell anyone but I’m not even really a great programmer. Apparently if you can keep a ton of balls in the air without dropping them too hard then they’ll still make you a senior, at least where I am
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 20:02
|
|
|
Took advantage of a 1x1 with my team lead to bring up a few points related to this thread and had what I feel like was a more productive discussion on finding something I can be the design lead for. No promises yet but if it turns out well I have something I want to work on and if it doesn't I have a little more proof that I need to move on. Artemis J Brassnuts posted:I think there also value in looking at what you CAN change, doing it, then crowing about it. I was in a similar position to you a year ago, where I wanted to be a lead but didn’t know how to stand out. How I stood out - without even really “making someone see it my way” or “convince someone of this or that” was to look at my systems critically and make some good changes. Like, I think we don’t have enough tools for reliably reproducing bugs in one of my features, so I wrote a test suite for QC to use. Told my boss all about it, talked about it in standups, etc. I think I've done okay with this in terms of small scale things (changes to our HTML reports, containerizing the builds to hopefully put us on the path of owning fewer VMs as a team, etc.) but I've worked with some people who can go off and find improvements that change the whole way the team does development so I've always felt I'm in the shadow of that and need to come up with something just as big. But of course if it's big, then it's really hard for me to do on my own and still make all my usual deliverables. I also feel a bit of a disconnect where I really value good UI/UX but it's never a priority for the product as a whole, or if it is it's immediately time to call someone else and I never get a chance to work on it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 20:39
|
|
|
carry on then posted:I guess my question is how do I practice leadership when I'm expected to follow directions?
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 20:47
|
|
|
Any advice on interviewing? I was caught up in this round. I've had this job in a senior software developer role for over ten years and haven't really been looking too hard at jobs all this while. Fortunately I won't be laid off for some months and will have severance, so I have a bit of time. Any other advice than "hit up leetcode/neetcode, view system design youtube videos" and whatnot?
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 20:56
|
|
|
phongn posted:Any advice on interviewing? I was caught up in this round. I've had this job in a senior software developer role for over ten years and haven't really been looking too hard at jobs all this while. Fortunately I won't be laid off for some months and will have severance, so I have a bit of time. Build the narrative you want to tell employers and practice telling the story.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 21:03
|
|
|
carry on then posted:I mean, I know how to take a high-level approach, or even just a problem, and work down to concrete solutions. My struggles are with identifying problems I can solve, or coming up with new capabilities I think our product should have, as well as trying to convince people they're worth pursuing in the face of a full backlog of things we already have buy-in from product management for. I've never been good at pushing past that initial denial in the rare case I do have something I think we should do. >I know how to take a high-level approach, or even just a problem, and work down to concrete solutions Cool. We'll call this your problem-solving algorithm. >identifying problems I can solve Problem identification is a problem in itself. Apply problem-solving algorithm. Now you have identified problems you can solve. >coming up with new capabilities I think our product should have This is also a problem. I could say just use your problem-solving algorithm but in my experience this one is tricky because it relies on creativity. In my experience creativity depends a lot on how you currently feel and this can be played with somewhat. Coffee and a walk seems to help for me sometimes as does coffee and a shower. If you've ever had shower thoughts, try to think about work in the shower and see if anything comes to mind. If you have ever noticed a period of your life when you felt more creative then it might help to think about what your nutrition, exercise, outdoor light exposure, sleeping, indoor (blue light) light exposure and overall health state was like at the time and see if you can reproduce any of those factors. >trying to convince people they're worth pursuing in the face of a full backlog of things we already have buy-in from product management for Of all the problems you listed, this one is probably easiest to apply the problem-solving algorithm to because pursuasion is one of those things where people have written a lot about what works. If you've "never been good" at it then the good news is you're probably good at reading or you wouldn't be here, so apply the problem-solving algorithm to finding good material, reading it, and applying it. oliveoil fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Feb 14, 2023 |
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 21:40
|
|
|
carry on then posted:Took advantage of a 1x1 with my team lead to bring up a few points related to this thread and had what I feel like was a more productive discussion on finding something I can be the design lead for. No promises yet but if it turns out well I have something I want to work on and if it doesn't I have a little more proof that I need to move on. carry on then posted:I think I've done okay with this in terms of small scale things (changes to our HTML reports, containerizing the builds to hopefully put us on the path of owning fewer VMs as a team, etc.) but I've worked with some people who can go off and find improvements that change the whole way the team does development so I've always felt I'm in the shadow of that and need to come up with something just as big. But of course if it's big, then it's really hard for me to do on my own and still make all my usual deliverables. By the way, make sure you aren't hoarding ideas because you're worried about having to share vision/credit with people who will execute on them faster than you. Getting the team to prioritize one of your ideas is a good way to make sure you get time and space to actually work on it. The hard part is that this is a collaborative enterprise that's also like ten cats trying to eat from the same bowl, and it takes some feedback and norm-setting to get what you want from it. carry on then posted:I also feel a bit of a disconnect where I really value good UI/UX but it's never a priority for the product as a whole, or if it is it's immediately time to call someone else and I never get a chance to work on it. What happens if you just start making merge requests to fix warts or minor bugs that bother you?
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2023 23:48
|
|
|
UI/UX is tough because it takes buy in from a lot of people who want to do different things, and there are a lot of people who will try to essentially craft a good sentence, but not pay attention to the paragraph, let alone where the whole arc could go. Like, filtering the data is over in the Analysis tab, but Mean Removal is in the Configuration tab. If you can clearly and compellingly explain why you like a UI, and have some non-overlapping organizing principles, then you can have some really good poo poo. You'll still have to fight with folks who'd just rather not explain any changes to the customers, but you'll have some good poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2023 05:36
|
|
|
just code an app and put it on github
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2023 05:47
|
|
|
or just update your LinkedIn, mark yourself as looking, and maybe send out a few resumes before wasting more time at a dead end job trying to troubleshoot something that is an imaginary problem
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2023 06:18
|
|
|
I've been very choosily starting to look at listings and listen to recruiters again, and I am astounded by the sheer number of companies that continue to not put any compensation ranges at all on their tech job listings, especially in contrast to California making it a requirement now. I've been wondering if I should start just flatly rejecting them for that reason... it's awfully tempting.
Roadie fucked around with this message at 08:29 on Feb 15, 2023 |
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2023 08:26
|
|
|
When recruiters reach out I ask for salary first. If they won't give it to me I reject the offer at that point. None of this "what are you looking for" bullshit. When I am looking for postings myself, I won't apply to anything that doesn't have a salary on it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2023 08:41
|
|
|
It's a very easy conversation with recruiters, "what are they offering?" is usually enough.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2023 11:32
|
|
|
They don't put it out there because they know they can't compete on comp. It's a warning sign in this market.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2023 14:29
|
|
|
No comp should be a big red flag yeah. Especially if the recruiter has been in the job more than 3 months (seems like all of them). Especially for senior roles Junior roles less so, but still alarming
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2023 14:43
|
|
|
I've found that in general, recruiters nowadays spend no time building relationships, and they have no patience for people who are passively looking or take any longer than absolutely necessary throughout the process—in a contracting market, the ones that survived at their companies are too under the gun to make numbers. A company with a ~$30B market cap booted me out of their process last year because I took a couple days to respond to an email. They want people who are ready to leave their job right now, and this is fully considered in their calculus when they gently caress around on salary transparency.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2023 15:56
|
|
|
it's the recruiting equivalent of when scammers make it super obvious to weed out the people with some common sense
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2023 18:22
|
|
|
On one hand, playing their game makes you signal desperation or being bottom of the barrel material, on the other, my capable friend has been having real trouble landing a lateral move due to capitalists exerting downward pressure on salaries via coordinated layoffs.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2023 00:51
|
|
|
gbut posted:, on the other, my capable friend has been having real trouble landing a lateral move due to capitalists exerting downward pressure on salaries via coordinated layoffs. Could be a local market issue? Looking at doing a lateral move, no shortage of recruiters chatting with me right now
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2023 03:08
|
|
|
Andy Jassy just announced mandatory return to office 3x a week starting May 1 for all Amazon employees. I’ll be curious what they will do to me because I’m not going back. Guess it’s time to hit LeetCode again, which is a huge bummer because I love my current team and project and I’m up for a promotion in Q2.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2023 19:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 22:02 |
|
|
Lol didn't they only say a few months ago they wouldn't force people back?
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2023 19:23
|
|