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What is the most powerful flying bug?
This poll is closed.
🦋 15 3.71%
🦇 115 28.47%
🪰 12 2.97%
🐦 67 16.58%
dragonfly 94 23.27%
🦟 14 3.47%
🐝 87 21.53%
Total: 404 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
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AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018

s/o to indira pissing off kissinger and nixon, and later on the sikh community

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V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

indira could have a little dictatorship, as a treat

e. the reason i hedged on it is because my knowledge of the war is pretty superficial, meaning that there's a good chance that i've been taken in by propaganda

boo boo bear
Oct 1, 2009

I'm COMPLETELY OBSESSED with SEXY EGGS

Regarde Aduck posted:

I fully support the DNR/LNR because if they lose it's likely there's gonna be a pogrom but Russia can go gently caress itself but also the DNR/LNR only has a chance because of them so it's complicated

wrong, there were never any russians in the dontesk.

lobster shirt
Jun 14, 2021

i will always support india in its military conflicts

Nonsense
Jan 26, 2007

lobster shirt posted:

i will always support india in its military conflicts

No they must be humbled and punished severely

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

that Freikorps story is a joke right.

Al!
Apr 2, 2010

:coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot:

Some Guy TT posted:

https://twitter.com/incunabula/status/1626970403963805698

read it and weep tankies no action is more evil and genocidal than destroying books in a language you dont like

hey free books

Al!
Apr 2, 2010

:coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot:
jai hind

Majorian
Jul 1, 2009

ContinuityNewTimes posted:

Some dumpy weirdo drags himself out of bed at 2PM to write an article and the elite of a nation thousands of miles away lose their poo poo

But enough about Glem...:smugbert:

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

the larouchite putinists are at it again :rolleyes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq0C6OI6llI&t=90s

https://twitter.com/RitchieTorres/status/1626684958998659073

i say swears online
Mar 4, 2005

Al! posted:

jai hind

Delta-Wye
Sep 29, 2005
good, im glad

dk2m
May 6, 2009
IMF Story Part 3 - The Origins of Russian Economic Antagonism

This is an ongoing story of my attempt to clarify international development and how we’ve ended up creating highly polarized international situation today - in modern language, we call “developed” economies the Global North and the “developing” countries the Global South.

For Part 1 - What is the IMF? https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=1&threadid=3994250&pagenumber=3275&perpage=40#post526221526

For Part 2 - Creating an Internationally Competitive Economy https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=1&threadid=3994250&pagenumber=3296&perpage=40#post526255552

In 1945, as the Bretton Woods system (later to be institutionalized into organizations like the IMF and the World Bank) was being formulated and executed, it’s very little known here in the West that there was an appetite amongst the Roosevelt administration to include the USSR into the American-led economic bloc.

The war had been a massive productive catalyst to the US economy as production skyrocketed. Across the board, the Allies were dependent on American aid from its Lend-Lease program, which exported equipment and supplies on a credit basis. This credit basis was generally given on favorable terms, but the underlying ground was shifting - it was clear that America would eventually be the only country that could fund the rest of war-torn Europe in reconstruction.

This meant that the Bretton Woods system could be negotiated entirely in favor of Washington, but Roosevelt is playing a fine game here. Knowing that systems were going to be needed to help fund reconstruction, he envisioned both an “international” fund that could settle balance of payments (that is to say, imports and exports amongst countries) as well as a “reconstruction bank” that mainly provided loans with interest rates.

The Soviet Union was no different than the rest of Europe in desperately needing development money - but moreover, the Americans had a genuine affection for the Soviet Union in those early days. In the Soviet Union, the Americans saw a strong economic partner in which the development boom in the US could continue to fund the USSR’s devastation.

John Gaddis, Harvard and Yale Military History professor posted:

"Reconversion to the production of consumer goods would be at best a painful process, and could be disastrous, for no one knew whether the American economy could maintain full employment in peacetime. The Soviet Union needed heavy industrial equipment, partly to rebuild its war-devastated economy and partly to satisfy its people’s long-denied desire for more consumer goods. Moscow could solve its reconstruction problems, it appeared, by placing massive orders for industrial equipment with American firms. Filling these orders would help the United States deal with its own postwar reconversion problems and, in the process, would begin to integrate the Soviet Union into the multilateral system of world trade to which Washington attached such great importance. Both countries, it seemed, had a strong interest in promoting this most promising of economic partnerships."

Similarly - in the USSR, there was an appetite and recognition of the strong need of both countries to integrate into the American-led Bretton Woods system of international development.

An article in 1944 issue of USSR’s Planned Economy posted:

“Our country is importing merchandise from abroad and exporting articles of our production. After the war, our trade with foreign countries will greatly increase. Therefore the USSR is interested in the stability of the capitalistic currency and in the restoration of the economic life of foreign countries. . . . Short-term credit by the Monetary Fund and the stimulation of long-term credit by the Bank for Reconstruction will contribute to the development of trade relations between the USSR and other countries. The USSR is interested in this as much as foreign countries.”

For clarity in technical definitions, the IMF is what’s known as a “monetary fund” and the World bank is the “long term credit fund”. The IMF’s role is to settle and balance of payments, which set currency valuations amongst nations. This is extremely important as creates boundaries on a what a country can import/export on a financial basis and it also sets domestic spending policy by pegging domestic currency against an internationally recognized "standard". The World Bank is a more “traditional” long term lender of credits, in which standard interest rates apply.

John Maynard Keynes was involved in the new Bretton Woods system, but since he was part of the British delegation that the Americans viewed as a peer-competitor, he often lamented at the “single currency” nature of how the Americans wanted to set up the new order. In his mind, having a single currency, the US dollar, become the reserve currency that would fund the reconstruction of Europe was ripe for eventually dominating the world. He proposed a “basket of currencies” based on individual countries that would act as an international currency that would limit this unipolar domination. As an aside, this is now exactly what BRICS is proposing.

The Russians knew that this was a possibility but like all of Europe, war-weariness and a need to get on with life was a pragmatic way to let the Americans have what they want - we’ll figure out the rest later.

So how exactly could a closed, Communist economy work within the context of a liberalized free-trade system? Surprisingly enough, it was thought that the Bretton Woods system would actually work better with the USSR as it didn’t have currency fluctuations and the central government provided nearly risk free transactions. Western exporters viewed these as technical advantages - they could rely on the government, rather than private capital, to pay on time and because the government had a monopoly on export prices, Western exporters could always expect what their profits could be.

As a foreign policy goal, the US also thought it was key to keep Russia in its camp - an international order with Russia not aligned will only bifurcate the world order. By giving Russia favorable long term credits, and developing the USSR as an ally, it would not only have a long term business partner, but would prevent the USSR from undermining the system with its own version of Bretton Woods.

What happened? Ultimately it was the inflexibility of the American system to allow for autonomy. While it’s true that the Russians wanted, and even desired an economic partnership with the US, it could not allow the total dominance of the US that would harm the domestic economy. A feature that the Soviets saw very early on in this system is the way in which this “free-trade” system would benefit American producers by forcing open domestic markets in Europe, A demand of the Americans to qualify to join the Bretton Woods system was to force European agriculture to switch its products grain to dairy and vegetables, allowing American producers to sell grain and ultimately keep Europe import dependent.

Import dependency would then transfer into political power, as now the Americans would have leverage over the internal politics of a country. In order words: “[we] did not fight the deadliest war in history in order to make the world safe for British merchants and American exporters. This is perhaps one of the basic reasons why [we] refused the American invitation to participate in the projected International Conference on Trade and Employment.”

Foreign Minister Molotov posted:

'“The principle of so-called equal opportunity has become a favorite topic of late. [Take] Rumania, enfeebled by the war, or Yugoslavia, ruined by the German and Italian fascists, and the United States of America, whose wealth has grown immensely during the war, and you will clearly see what the implementation of the principle of “equal opportunity” would mean in practice. Imagine, under these circumstances, that in this same Rumania or Yugoslavia, or in some other war-weakened state, you have this so-called equal opportunity for, let U.S. say, American capital – that is, the opportunity for it to penetrate unhindered into Rumanian industry, or Yugoslav industry and so forth: what, then, will remain of Rumania’s national industry, or of Yugoslavia’s national industry?

Said another way - we let the Americans go into a war-torn country, and they export their cheap goods into it - what would remain of its industry? There would be none. This fear of letting America being able to dictate the economic and political autonomy would cause alarm amongst Soviet leaders, but it is entirely justified - the Americans themselves set up the system in order for them to be able to do just that.

It’s other allies, such as Britain and France, did not have the capacity to fight against this and it eventually led to the collapse of the British Empire at the American’s insistence of allowing it’s Sterling Area to be opened up to American exporters - now, Americans could sell its goods to huge markets like India and could easily undercut British prices due to it’s vastly superior manufacturing base. The final blow to Britain was by forcing the British to own the war debt that it placed on its colonies - it could no longer impoverish India and would instead take on all of the war debt that it owed the United States. This war debt was only paid off in 2006.

By containing it’s allies, America used it’s economic leverage to keep them subservient to American power which lasts to this day. Consequently, by trying to economically isolate the Soviet Union after it balked, it brought about the drive for Soviet planners to gain self-sufficiency. These nationalistic economic policy aims of the United States that won out, and it’s one-sided nature on who the winner would be, would prove to split the world down the middle for a near century.

dk2m has issued a correction as of 20:28 on Feb 18, 2023

i say swears online
Mar 4, 2005

lobster shirt posted:

i will always support india in its military conflicts

阿鲁纳恰尔邦属于中国

Isentropy
Dec 12, 2010

Palladium posted:

i mean, who in the global south is stupid enough to sell weapons to someone who can't obviously pay

Does PH have any arms manufacturers. I wouldn't say that's stupid more like "take everything not nailed down"

ContinuityNewTimes
Dec 30, 2010

Я выдуман напрочь

Majorian posted:

But enough about Glem...:smugbert:

He's not dumpy

Best Friends
Nov 4, 2011

feels not great that the only political space in the west open to “the war in Ukraine should end by negotiation” is the far right. also seems like an own goal, politically, since that’s a perfectly normal opinion to have outside of the halls of power and the opinion pages.

Regarde Aduck
Oct 19, 2012

c l o u d k i t t e n
Grimey Drawer
well we all knew the western organised left were poo poo, we just didn't know how poo poo

like we all thought it was just lack of will to power but it appears like it was just a case of selling out when the stars aligned. Some big brains decided this was a genuine light vs darkness moment that would unite all the political spectrum in harmony. Maybe if they support THIS war they'll give us health care?

lobster shirt
Jun 14, 2021

dk2m posted:

IMF Story Part 3 - The Origins of Russian Economic Antagonism

great post

AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018

V. Illych L. posted:

indira could have a little dictatorship, as a treat

e. the reason i hedged on it is because my knowledge of the war is pretty superficial, meaning that there's a good chance that i've been taken in by propaganda

Was she a dictator? I think she contributed to India becoming what it is now, but the 1971 conflict is one of the most just wars that India has fought.

She was quite literally fighting against a genocidal force, this conflict still has ramifications in the subcontinent to this day.

Al!
Apr 2, 2010

:coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot:

Regarde Aduck posted:

well we all knew the western organised left were poo poo, we just didn't know how poo poo

like we all thought it was just lack of will to power but it appears like it was just a case of selling out when the stars aligned. Some big brains decided this was a genuine light vs darkness moment that would unite all the political spectrum in harmony. Maybe if they support THIS war they'll give us health care?

american "workers" have so much more to lose than their chains. their comfort depends on the industrial scale exploitation of the third world and the environment

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

more hersh interviews!
https://twitter.com/RaniaKhalek/status/1626884525077958656

https://twitter.com/cnsnews/status/1626714369290645504
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4BuMaGlKp0

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

more criticism!
https://twitter.com/eoin_mc_sweeney/status/1627020406010814465
https://twitter.com/tonymc39/status/1626926507523203074
https://twitter.com/im_PULSE/status/1626969623307460608

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1626769869176967170

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004

Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration
Nap Ghost

Best Friends posted:

feels not great that the only political space in the west open to “the war in Ukraine should end by negotiation” is the far right.

General Milley at least has said this is what will end the war. Negotiated settlement. He’s a pretty prominent government official.

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

it looked like the right half of the column was all who won the war but i'm not googling to confirm

Delta-Wye
Sep 29, 2005
i have a theory about people conspiring to call things conspiracy theories that are actually conspiracy FACT

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

Best Friends posted:

feels not great that the only political space in the west open to “the war in Ukraine should end by negotiation” is the far right. also seems like an own goal, politically, since that’s a perfectly normal opinion to have outside of the halls of power and the opinion pages.
there is a tiny fragment of a political space from a left-liberal perspective outside the united states in the west, but yes the liberals and socdems and demsocs are indistinguishable on pro-war narratives. refusing to entertain the notion that russia did not bomb its own pipelines is cosmically hilarious
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1625866283471327233

Delta-Wye
Sep 29, 2005
goddamn you'd think all you whiny tankies would be more in favor of sending tanks

no pleasing some people

AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018

die linke

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

and to be fair the published dsa stance from the beginning of the conflict is that the us should not escalate the conflict with arms and funding, but they are basically a non-entity and even allow pro-war politicians to trade on their branding with zero chastising or threats to withhold their mediocre support

Nonsense
Jan 26, 2007

the time for peace has passed. Putin must surrender and turn himself over to The Hague.

Cpt_Obvious
Jun 18, 2007

i say swears online posted:

holy poo poo we've build 900 f-35s? I would have guessed in the high dozens

That's 2 trillion dollars right there.

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

the only sitting politician that is against escalating the war and not brazenly "rightwing" that im aware of in the entire united states is a seattle council member that plans to leave office soon

OctaMurk
Jun 21, 2013
Vietnam now gleefully using Seymour Hersh’s piece of nonsense as propaganda. Well done Seymour.

Nonsense
Jan 26, 2007

Sy Hersh’s career is effectively over.

fanfic insert
Nov 4, 2009

dk2m posted:

It's been a while since I've done a long economics/IMF effort post, but I ducked out of this thread months ago when things were getting way too personal and haven't really checked back in

is this still the right place for that? or is there now a separate thread for that? i never did get the economics story up to the fall of the USSR and Gaidar, along with the IMF's so called shock therapy and post-soviet malaise amongst the warsaw pact counties. imo, it's an important factor of material reality that is animating this conflict

the ussr had a gaidar?

BadOptics
Sep 11, 2012

mlmp08 posted:

Su-17/22 has a "so ugly it's cool" thing going on.

When you free feed your MiG-21 you end up with a Su-22.

lobster shirt
Jun 14, 2021

fanfic insert posted:

the ussr had a gaidar?

thats how russia ended up banning gay propaganda, powerful and accurate gaidar technology

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

Commenting on the pipeline article, Hersh told Democracy Now!:

"It's a tiresome game to me. So what happens is I do my story on Substack. I wouldn't even think -- I'm embarrassed to say it after all those wonderful years I had at the New York Times -- I wouldn't even think of taking a story like this to the New York Times.

"They've decided that the Ukraine war is going to be won by Ukraine, and that's what their readers get, and so be it. That's their call."

Later in the interview he said, "The bottom line is, the stories I've been getting about the war, particularly beginning in the fall -- and that's what gets interesting -- have been pretty dire. The Russians -- I think the end is just a question of time right now. It's a question of how many more people Zelensky wants to kill of his own people. It's going to be over."

"I don't think there's any chance that Putin wants to take over Europe," said Hersh. "He wants to have Ukraine tamed. But he's not interested in doing anything more. I may be in a minority about that."

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Lord of Pie
Mar 2, 2007



ganondorf, go home, you're drunk

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