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serious gaylord
Sep 16, 2007

what.

BalloonFish posted:

https://twitter.com/MartynBrunt/status/1625161983619174401

This is someone's good thread on how the dreaded 15-minute City is actually something that was essentially the standard mode of existence until quite recently, which also serves as a rather depressing case study in what's happened to a lot of communities over the past 20 years or so.

I subjected a previous version of this thread to a long Abe Simpson-style moan when I went back to the bit of Hampshire I grew up in and found that in virtually every village in the district all the shops and services had gone and the entire area was one big dormitory with the occasional gastro-pub, estate agent and petrol station. In the early 1990s, even out in the sticks, if you include cycling in that 15 minute timeframe there was little need to use the car or travel big distances. Now I assume the people who live there get their shopping delivered, do it on the way home from work in Southampton, Winchester or Portsmouth or drive to a supermarket in Fareham, Hedge End, Bursledon, Eastleigh or some other soulless sprawl.

I remember that post and it struck a chord with me, especially since the last time I went back to the area I grew up it was very very similar.

Parade of shops at each end of my road. A slightly longer walk and there was another row of shops with the best chippy in town. Literally could buy everything you needed.
Even then if you wanted to walk for about 15-20 minutes in all directions you'd end up at a much larger shopping area and indoor market. Small supermarkets, blockbuster etc.

Increase the walk to 30 minutes and you could then get a swimming pool, a million football fields and parks and even a laser quest.

Last time I was there was probably the late 00's, maybe 08 if I had to guess. The shops at the end of the road had all been turned into flats. The chippy was still there but all the other shops were either derelict or once again flats.

The indoor market was you guessed it, flats with a smallish Tesco and a smattering of shops on the ground floor.

Where I am now is okay but I don't think I could walk to everything. Bike or scooter would be fine though. Bus certainly.

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NotJustANumber99
Feb 15, 2012

somehow that last av was even worse than your posting
How does away supporters at football games work? You could only play your neighbouring 15 minute zone which would be a good reason to zone in hexagons rather than squares to maximise opponents.

It would mean big popular bands like Coldplay and u2 would have to do much smaller gigs for the benefit of only a few neighbouring zones at once, provided they could secure travel permits to stage the gigs of course.

Perhaps we could have open top buses touring zone perimeters with musicians playing from there, interspersed with tannoy messages relaying the fines for anyone found out of zone.

Guavanaut
Nov 27, 2009

Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998



Toilet Rascal
Put the away pub near the train station like they do anyway.

Danger - Octopus!
Apr 20, 2008


Nap Ghost

serious gaylord posted:

Last time I was there was probably the late 00's, maybe 08 if I had to guess. The shops at the end of the road had all been turned into flats. The chippy was still there but all the other shops were either derelict or once again flats.

Yeah, 15 minute cities or (to use a less loaded term), the kind of villages that for example Edinburgh has across the city doesn't really work when developers are desperate to cut public transport, knock down any amenities and just put up block after block of student accomodation or convert everything to airbnbs so tourists can uber to/from other parts of the city.

smellmycheese
Feb 1, 2016


Can we hope these pledges will be marked somewhere permanently? Some form of stone monument perhaps?

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Danger - Octopus! posted:

Yeah, 15 minute cities or (to use a less loaded term), the kind of villages that for example Edinburgh has across the city doesn't really work when developers are desperate to cut public transport, knock down any amenities and just put up block after block of student accomodation or convert everything to airbnbs so tourists can uber to/from other parts of the city.

Turns out, when you make the private sector responsible for building housing for profit, they build nothing but enough housing to maximise profit?


I've never understood that we rely on private developers for every building project in this country, including government ones. You'd think some kind of "National Housing company" focused and funded to the goal of building high quality housing rather than maximum profit new build estates would be a no-brainer housing pledge, especially given how much people like to grumble about new builds.

Skarsnik
Oct 21, 2008

I...AM...RUUUDE!





Used to regularly walk to that tesco at 3am in my pj's with the munchies

Angrymog
Jan 30, 2012

Really Madcats

Sheerness and a lot of the Isle of Sheppey is a bit poo poo, but I do have everything basic I need in a 15 minute walk - small shops, supermarket, leisure centre, GP, (MIU hospital is in a 15 minute drive), nature, cinema (okay, they only show one film a week, but it's still a cinema), museums, library, theatre, train station. It's really convinienent.

Brendan Rodgers
Jun 11, 2014




Nothingtoseehere posted:

Turns out, when you make the private sector responsible for building housing for profit, they build nothing but enough housing to maximise profit?

Private profit will destroy everything, forever, even if we survive a million years into the future, private profit will have to be constantly fought against, as a concept. Even if we colonise the entire galaxy, everything we build will be threatened by the externalisation of costs and the internalisation of benefits. It is a psychic disease of the mind and soul.

Bobby Deluxe
May 9, 2004

I think I've said before but Winchester, when I lived there as a student was a 15 minute city in the sense that the road system in town was so abysmal that it just made more sense to walk everywhere. It was also the size of a small town (i.e. walkable) but because it's technically a city with a university, most major brands wanted to be located there so the shops were actually useful.

Also probably helps that most of the people who live/work there are obscenely rich. Again when I lived there something like .5% of the population were unemployed?

Tijuana Bibliophile
Dec 30, 2008

Scratchmo

Brendan Rodgers posted:

Private profit will destroy everything, forever, even if we survive a million years into the future, private profit will have to be constantly fought against, as a concept. Even if we colonise the entire galaxy, everything we build will be threatened by the externalisation of costs and the internalisation of benefits. It is a psychic disease of the mind and soul.

Only way to escape is to find the right crypto and hodl until you're on top

Jaeluni Asjil
Apr 18, 2018

Sorry I thought you were a landlord when I gave you your old avatar!

Angrymog posted:

Sheerness and a lot of the Isle of Sheppey is a bit poo poo, but I do have everything basic I need in a 15 minute walk - small shops, supermarket, leisure centre, GP, (MIU hospital is in a 15 minute drive), nature, cinema (okay, they only show one film a week, but it's still a cinema), museums, library, theatre, train station. It's really convinienent.

Broadly similar here but no train station for 20km and no hospital for about the same (and this is also off the beaten track for the crappy public transport that does exist.)
Dire lack of clothes shops as previously commented.

Mebh
May 10, 2010


There are at least 15 places near me that will deliver various flavours of doughnuts, crepes or waffles covered in chocolate bars or nutella etc.

I assume that is where all the local businesses have gone, since in Sheffield house prices are cheap. The best money must be mixing eggs, flour, water and nutella together and repeatedly selling it for 9 quid to someone like me on a sunday night while I'm stoned.

Bobby Deluxe
May 9, 2004

Brendan Rodgers posted:

Private profit will destroy everything, forever, even if we survive a million years into the future, private profit will have to be constantly fought against, as a concept. Even if we colonise the entire galaxy, everything we build will be threatened by the externalisation of costs and the internalisation of benefits. It is a psychic disease of the mind and soul.
I was thinking about this earlier, wondering why it's impossible for us as a species to unite and take on the kinds of projects that could tackle (for example) climate change, and then you realise that there is a trillion dollar global industry profiting from us not doing that, which has more ad / propaganda budget than probably most countries combined.

And you can't even opt out because as long as the thing you try to do harms their bottom line, there will always be a reason for them to try and destroy you - financially, reputationalky, or depending on how desperate they are or how well known you are, physically.

And I know that's something we've always known intellectually - like I doubt anyone's mind was blown reading that, but it just loving sucks internalising what it means for us as a species.

Like there being an energy crisis and people can't afford their bills while energy suppliers profits are tripling, and the governments who could be doing something about it just bleat about how that's against the rules, and they can't possibly change the rules or they'll lose public support - it says so on this survey conducted by the shell group! And that's assuming that the politicians in question want to help and are just stupid, as opposed to the ones who side with fossil fuel companies to get cushy speaking positions after they leave office.

I think a lot about Nick Clegg and that video of him saying they wouldn't create a nuclear reactor because it wouldn't be online until 2022. How many lives that might have saved this last winter. How many people immiserated or in poverty it could have helped.

But god forbid we ever do anything that might make things better for the people.

Jaeluni Asjil
Apr 18, 2018

Sorry I thought you were a landlord when I gave you your old avatar!

Bobby Deluxe posted:

I was thinking about this earlier, wondering why it's impossible for us as a species to unite and take on the kinds of projects that could tackle (for example) climate change, and then you realise that there is a trillion dollar global industry profiting from us not doing that, which has more ad / propaganda budget than probably most countries combined.

And you can't even opt out because as long as the thing you try to do harms their bottom line, there will always be a reason for them to try and destroy you - financially, reputationalky, or depending on how desperate they are or how well known you are, physically.

And I know that's something we've always known intellectually - like I doubt anyone's mind was blown reading that, but it just loving sucks internalising what it means for us as a species.

Like there being an energy crisis and people can't afford their bills while energy suppliers profits are tripling, and the governments who could be doing something about it just bleat about how that's against the rules, and they can't possibly change the rules or they'll lose public support - it says so on this survey conducted by the shell group! And that's assuming that the politicians in question want to help and are just stupid, as opposed to the ones who side with fossil fuel companies to get cushy speaking positions after they leave office.

I think a lot about Nick Clegg and that video of him saying they wouldn't create a nuclear reactor because it wouldn't be online until 2022. How many lives that might have saved this last winter. How many people immiserated or in poverty it could have helped.

But god forbid we ever do anything that might make things better for the people.

Same when people talk about world peace. It'll never happen, way too many vested interests (money, power) in perpetuating the war machine.

Facehammer
Mar 11, 2008

smellmycheese posted:

Can we hope these pledges will be marked somewhere permanently? Some form of stone monument perhaps?

The Keir Menhir

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

Only Kindness
Oct 12, 2016
5 pledges
5' pledges
5'' pledges

Also is there anything more pathetic than a political pledge.

forkboy84
Jun 13, 2012

Corgis love bread. And Puro


Only Kindness posted:

5 pledges
5' pledges
5'' pledges

Also is there anything more pathetic than a political pledge.

The Labour left

Tindalos
May 1, 2008

Nothingtoseehere posted:

You'd think some kind of "National Housing company" focused and funded to the goal of building high quality housing rather than maximum profit new build estates would be a no-brainer housing pledge, especially given how much people like to grumble about new builds.

"You mean building homes for benefit scroungers and migrants! I had to pay for my house and it never did me any harm! It's all these shiftless young people not wanting to buy their own homes!"

It's a great idea, but it's moving things from the private sector to the public one, so it's easy to understand why it would be seen as anti-business and be savaged by the media. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be done, just it's an uphill struggle.

ItohRespectArmy
Sep 11, 2019

Cutest In The World, Six Time DDT Ironheavymetalweight champion, Two Time International Princess champion, winner of two tournaments, a Princess Tag Team champion, And a pretty good singer too!
"When I was an idol, I felt nothing every day but now that I'm a pro wrestler I'm in pain constantly!"

shouldn't starmer make 20 pledges at the very least?

i was promised 20 of something or other

team overhead smash
Sep 2, 2006

Team-Forest-Tree-Dog:
Smashing your way into our hearts one skylight at a time

Tindalos posted:

"You mean building homes for benefit scroungers and migrants! I had to pay for my house and it never did me any harm! It's all these shiftless young people not wanting to buy their own homes!"

It's a great idea, but it's moving things from the private sector to the public one, so it's easy to understand why it would be seen as anti-business and be savaged by the media. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be done, just it's an uphill struggle.

Extend Right To Buy to privately rented houses/apartments. 1) gently caress all landlords 2) you can use the resultant crash in private building to rationalise paying for building public housing.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

loving with the rental market is pretty close to top of my political desires because I want to hear the lamentation of the landlords.

Only Kindness
Oct 12, 2016
Landlords provide housing though, according to landlords, which is, you might say, the ultimate act of philanthropy.

Of course what's really happening is the tenants are paying off the landlord's mortgage and, as such, gifting them a free house, so, really, who's actually being philanthropic here?

(The same goes for every other situation where poorer folks subsidise the wealth of others i.e. every other situation.)


Also, Dickie Davies Eyes. I mean, Dickie Davies died. Also Munch.

Bobby Deluxe
May 9, 2004

The forum energy technologies is attempting to produce unlimited green energy by exposing mumsnet posters to the nearby edstones.

Gorn Myson
Aug 8, 2007






"Landlords provide housing" is something you hear a lot but landlords take the next rhetorical step and will say that if you make things difficult for them then there will be less people to provide houses, thus less houses.

And it's such a stupid thing to believe, as if landlords ceased to exist then so would the houses, but they do believe it.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

Landlords provide housing if you hollow them out and climb inside them like a camel.

Only Kindness
Oct 12, 2016
Dickie Davies' eyes: a coin on each one? goddamn I had thirty years and I don't have one ready RIP though, he seemed likeable enough.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Landlords aren't even the one providing the service most of the time - that's the letting agents. And managing a supply of rental property is a useful service, but that's not what landlords do. They just acquire a BTL, pay a letting agent to do all the work, and pocket the money while announcing they are housing providers.

Phigs
Jan 23, 2019

If a landlord didn't win the bid for a house and put it up for rent, how would anyone live in it?

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Phigs posted:

If a landlord didn't win the bid for a house and put it up for rent, how would anyone live in it?

If a tree fell in a forest and crushed a landlord, would anybody care?

smellmycheese
Feb 1, 2016

This midwit is taking heavy fire after he decided to write an “in praise of the CUKTIGs” anniversary tweet

https://twitter.com/timfarron/status/1627463881424572420?s=46&t=ytiMJPYT-aQ3-ZN0gbdFvQ

ronya
Nov 8, 2010

I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.
https://twitter.com/GabrielCorsetti/status/1627158826519785473

anti-Britisher positioning in India slowly morphing from a trope of the Congress left to the right is, I think, an unappreciated shift in Britain

the last time pro-Western liberals were the main opposition to a Congress-by-default India was, what, the late 1960s/early 1970s? by the 1980s the Hindutva conservatives were clearly ascendant and today they are the India government

Microplastics
Jul 6, 2007

:discourse:
It's what's for dinner.
My eyes just slide off the words

Private Speech
Mar 30, 2011

I HAVE EVEN MORE WORTHLESS BEANIE BABIES IN MY COLLECTION THAN I HAVE WORTHLESS POSTS IN THE BEANIE BABY THREAD YET I STILL HAVE THE TEMERITY TO CRITICIZE OTHERS' COLLECTIONS

IF YOU SEE ME TALKING ABOUT BEANIE BABIES, PLEASE TELL ME TO

EAT. SHIT.


Microplastics posted:

My eyes just slide off the words

They are actually quite simple words this time.

I do find it odd Modi would attack the BBC/the UK government like that, is there anything in particular which is causing the shift?

Guavanaut
Nov 27, 2009

Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998



Toilet Rascal
The BBC should be funded by China. It would be better than licence fees, western libs, or oil theocracies funding it, and even if they let the camp guards in XUAR do a show it'd probably be less bigoted than the current BBC content on Roma and Travellers.

1965917
Oct 4, 2005

Little game where you guess property values and then feel :smith: because you are very very wrong.

https://propertyguessr.fun/locations

smellmycheese
Feb 1, 2016

Private Speech posted:

They are actually quite simple words this time.

I do find it odd Modi would attack the BBC/the UK government like that, is there anything in particular which is causing the shift?

The BBC released a documentary a few weeks investigating Modi’s fascist gangs and chums

Mebh
May 10, 2010


1965917 posted:

Little game where you guess property values and then feel :smith: because you are very very wrong.

https://propertyguessr.fun/locations

Sheffield wins again for having actually sane prices.

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Diet Crack
Jan 15, 2001

LauraK saying "That's quite a charge" when someone mentioned Boris is a Liar on her show..

just lmao, there's only a many months long investigation and mountains of supported evidence Laura. Glad they gave you your own show so you can continue being a vapid oval office.

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