Ukraine: The Aristoblyats

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mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

Radical 90s Wizard posted:

holy gently caress

Yeah, that guy gets got, and so does a buddy who comes up either trying to help or is just the next guy in that stack.

I'm wondering how far away the next Ukrainian position is in that trench system, because if Ukranian Rambo here has to engage a guy assaulting another section of trench, then they're really thinly holding that trench. Same with the AFV that's about 30-40m away, are they down to RPGs in that trench line? Isn't there someone with a shot at the side armor?

I'd be interested in a translation of the radio call, that would tell us a lot about the tactical situation.

# ? Feb 20, 2023 07:40

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 15:14

Generation Internet: Jan 18, 2009; Where angels and generals fear to tread.

mllaneza posted:

I'd be interested in a translation of the radio call, that would tell us a lot about the tactical situation.

There's a couple translations of the whole video floating around on reddit. Here's the most coherent one I saw slightly edited for readibility; grammar is direct from the translation but I noted who's saying what.

quote:

I wont translate all of this.

Jk. I'll mark what war buddy said, and radio is marked.

POV: Rifle, rifle!

WB: From other side.

POV: Rifle, rifle! Gimme my rifle.

WB: Here it is.

POV: Those [slur] are approaching. Grenade, grenade. More. More. Mags for rifle. Reload, shoot. Gimme rifle. Load rpg. With pencil. (Idk that slang word). Gimme. Reload rifle. Gimme another. gently caress.

WB: Why guys arent helping?

POV: What?

WB: Why guys arent helping?

POV: Idk. Gimme grenade. Theres in corner amerikanki. [Apparently American grenades?]

WB: Take it (giving grenades).

POV: Gimme radio walkie-talkie (dunno how to translate, hope you understood).

Radio: on our way.

POV: Haki haki, need help, its urgent. Call Alex.

WB: Orcs are near hills.

POV: Yes. Gimme more ammo.

Radio: I cant connect to Alex. Do your best. to someone on other side move out, move out. Eyes, eyes (drone), do your work. Go to firing positions.

WB: Low on ammo.

POV: Alex, what can you see? (It appears Alex is drone operator).

Radio: Looks like 10 orcs are approaching.

POV: Margulis, margulis, shoot arty (?) (more like cover us), we cant pull it off. 100's ammo crate, fast. Nope, in corner, in corner. Like this, like this. Please, like this. Look out, look out.

Radio: I can see movements in (your?) direction.

POV: For Ukraine, [slur].

POV: exhausted breathing

POV: Tell that I'm confused? Nope. I killed [slur]. Encircled us here.

WB: First time in such situation.

POV: I'm too. You think I have like this each day?

quote:

Karandash (pencil) there is a type of AT rocket.

Generation Internet fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Feb 20, 2023

# ? Feb 20, 2023 08:19

Carth Dookie: Jan 28, 2013

That uh..

that really sounds like they were temporarily surrounded by russians in that trench and nearly ate poo poo. Yikes.

:staredog:

# ? Feb 20, 2023 08:24

Alchenar: Apr 9, 2008

For Ukraine, [slur] indeed my man.

# ? Feb 20, 2023 08:29

psydude: Apr 1, 2008

How about the CONSTANT stream of bullets zipping over his head and hitting the dirt around him.

# ? Feb 20, 2023 08:38

Alchenar: Apr 9, 2008

It looks like zero communications trenches and no dead ground to fall back through. Once you are under observation there's no getting out of that position.

# ? Feb 20, 2023 08:44

Fragrag: Aug 3, 2007; The Worst Admin Ever bashes You in the head with his banhammer. It is smashed into the body, an unrecognizable mass! You have been struck down.

When you hear about the legends of units calling artillery on their own positions, I never expected to ever see a first person perspective of such a situation.

I wonder how this duo got stuck on their own. Were they manning a (well-supplied) forward observation point when an IFV suddenly rolled up on them?

Also kudos to War Buddy for realising what he couldn't but managed to get himself to do what he could. It's hard to realise that less than one year ago many of these lads were working normal jobs.

# ? Feb 20, 2023 09:06

Parkingtigers: Feb 23, 2008; TARGET CONSUMER
LOVES EVERY FUCKING GAME EVER MADE. EVER.

He's not a war buddy, he's a gun butler. Dude is definitely helping.

# ? Feb 20, 2023 09:17

psydude: Apr 1, 2008

I've seen this tactic in a few videos now throughout the war, where one guy is reloading RPGs/AKs/RPKs and the other is laying down a constant stream of hate. Like an AG for a rifleman.

# ? Feb 20, 2023 09:32

Fearless: Sep 3, 2003; DRINK MORE MOXIE

Entirely amateur opinion here, but it makes sense to have one shooter and one loader rather than two shooters stumbling over each other and fighting over reloads.

# ? Feb 20, 2023 09:41

Qtotonibudinibudet: Nov 7, 2011; Omich poluyobok, skazhi ty narkoman? ya prosto tozhe gde to tam zhivu, mogli by vmeste uyobyvat' narkotiki

> POV: Gimme radio walkie-talkie (dunno how to translate, hope you understood).

out of curiosity, does anyone know the original? i hear what sounds like "дай (give) РАСУ", "dai rasu"

i cant tell if that "rasu" is an acronym of sorts (whatever it's called slavic first syllable constructions, maybe "RAdio SUsomething".

maybe "связь"/"link"? it's often used in that context, and связью (instrumental case) isn't far off?

typical times in the gip ukraine war thread, tactical analysis abounds while i am lasering in on linguistics minutiae

# ? Feb 20, 2023 10:42

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

biden appears to be in kyiv?

e: yeah this video does very much appear to be in kyiv
https://twitter.com/maria_drutska/status/1627606110206148608?s=20

# ? Feb 20, 2023 10:53

A Festivus Miracle: Dec 19, 2012; I have come to discourse on the profound inequities of the American political system.

Alchenar posted:

It looks like zero communications trenches and no dead ground to fall back through. Once you are under observation there's no getting out of that position.

This is Ukraine. A place that is basically Kansas level flat in its eastern reaches. Most of the trenches I see in most videos are tree line to tree line, wind row to wind row for the exact reason that otherwise you're walking through a completely open field.

# ? Feb 20, 2023 10:57

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Herstory Begins Now posted:

biden appears to be in kyiv?

e: yeah this video does very much appear to be in kyiv
https://twitter.com/maria_drutska/status/1627606110206148608?s=20

Hoooly poo poo he actually did it, the absolute madman! That's definitely not Poland.

# ? Feb 20, 2023 11:07

Nick Soapdish: Apr 27, 2008

https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1627611940250963968?t=8Cywlnj2qlBr9HHpGVAiag&s=19

Yup, he's there

# ? Feb 20, 2023 11:59

Scam Likely: Feb 19, 2021

Goddamn you gotta respect that. Zelensky's bravery has definitely shaken up world leaders everywhere, Biden included.

# ? Feb 20, 2023 13:21

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

Bojo is a tough act to follow for better or worse

# ? Feb 20, 2023 14:03

Duzzy Funlop: Jan 13, 2010; Hi there, would you like to try some spicy products?

Help me out here, how do the logistics of that visit even work compared to a regular presidential visit.

US presidents travel with a medium army and some serious military hardware, airspace is restricted, non-commercial air-traffic is completely verboten, commercial air-traffic is severely affected, and big-rear end QRF detachments sit around on high-alert in several different places.

How does any of this work in an active warzone with a nation-state adversary? Is it a massive compromise of your overkill-levels of security and pivots entirely on secrecy and a quick in-and-out under the legal umbrella of a diplomatic mission?
Or is the easier answer that you do it all by being completely open with Russia and let them know "listen here, Jack, a piece of ordnance is even moved in the general direction of Kyiv on Monday, let alone mounted on an airframe/loaded into a barrel, the world ends"?

# ? Feb 20, 2023 14:11

kill me now: Sep 14, 2003; Why's Hank crying?

'CUZ HE JUST GOT DUNKED ON!

Duzzy Funlop posted:

Help me out here, how do the logistics of that visit even work compared to a regular presidential visit.

US presidents travel with a medium army and some serious military hardware, airspace is restricted, non-commercial air-traffic is completely verboten, commercial air-traffic is severely affected, and big-rear end QRF detachments sit around on high-alert in several different places.

How does any of this work in an active warzone with a nation-state adversary? Is it a massive compromise of your overkill-levels of security and pivots entirely on secrecy and a quick in-and-out under the legal umbrella of a diplomatic mission?
Or is the easier answer that you do it all by being completely open with Russia and let them know "listen here, Jack, a piece of ordnance is even moved in the general direction of Kyiv on Monday, let alone mounted on an airframe/loaded into a barrel, the world ends"?

No idea but I wouldn�t be shocked if there was a squadron of raptors flying CAP over Kyiv while he�s on the ground.

# ? Feb 20, 2023 14:14

psydude: Apr 1, 2008

Duzzy Funlop posted:

Help me out here, how do the logistics of that visit even work compared to a regular presidential visit.

US presidents travel with a medium army and some serious military hardware, airspace is restricted, non-commercial air-traffic is completely verboten, commercial air-traffic is severely affected, and big-rear end QRF detachments sit around on high-alert in several different places.

How does any of this work in an active warzone with a nation-state adversary? Is it a massive compromise of your overkill-levels of security and pivots entirely on secrecy and a quick in-and-out under the legal umbrella of a diplomatic mission?
Or is the easier answer that you do it all by being completely open with Russia and let them know "listen here, Jack, a piece of ordnance is even moved in the general direction of Kyiv on Monday, let alone mounted on an airframe/loaded into a barrel, the world ends"?

I'm guessing the secret service and DSS have been prepping for this for months and keeping specific dates secret to prevent it from leaking back to the Russians.

What I'd be curious about is how they actually got to Kyiv. I mean, we all know Joe loves trains, but...

# ? Feb 20, 2023 14:17

Wickerman: Feb 26, 2007; Boom, mothafucka!

What I read from the NYT was that he took the train from Poland to Kyiv. There was also something about US warplanes circling on/near the Polish-Ukrainian border. Wouldn't be much of a surprise if they had a QRF in Poland as well.

# ? Feb 20, 2023 14:20

Grand Fromage: Jan 30, 2006; L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?

I'm sure there's serious security, but also I really don't think Russia is at "let's assassinate the US president" levels of crazy.

# ? Feb 20, 2023 14:27

psydude: Apr 1, 2008

https://www.economist.com/briefing/2023/02/19/the-west-is-struggling-to-forge-a-new-arsenal-of-democracy

Something something professionals talk logistics:

(extremely good and long article that I've edited down a bit to the most salient points)

quote:

Iam a bomb technician,” reads the t-shirt draped over a chair at Scranton Army Ammunition Plant in Pennsylvania. “If you see me running try to keep up.” In fact, it is the bomb technicians who are scrambling to keep up, as America transfers huge quantities of munitions to Ukraine, for use in the war with Russia. The factory in Scranton makes the steel casing of m795 155mm howitzer shells, of which America has given Ukraine more than 1m over the past year. But even such prodigious quantities of ammunition are not enough: Ukraine is firing roughly as many shells in a month as America can produce in a year.

...

With both Russian and Ukrainian forces dug in, the war over the winter has settled into an artillery duel. The Ukrainians reckon that they are on the receiving end of about 20,000 shells and rockets a day. They have managed to maintain a barrage of about 5,000-6,000 most days—similar to the annual procurement of a smaller nato member before the war—although the blitz may be diminishing as both sides seek to conserve ammunition.

...

Ukraine will soon be dependent on what the American and European arms industries can manufacture (plus a few shells scrounged by America from allies in Asia, such as South Korea, which has a sizeable arms industry but strict export rules). Currently, America is capable of making about 180,000 155mm shells a year, while Europe, according to Bastian Giegerich of the International Institute for Strategic Studies, a think-tank, cranked out about 300,000 last year. All told, that constitutes barely three months’ consumption for Ukraine.

...

Part of the problem is a tendency, among both politicians and soldiers, to prioritise purchases of “platforms”, eg, ships and planes, over the munitions that they fire. “You can’t buy nine-tenths of a ship,” says Eric Fanning, a former Pentagon official now at the Aerospace Industries Association, a lobby group, “But you can buy nine-tenths of the number of missiles you need.” Munitions thus become the “bill-payer” of weapons procurement, explains Stacie Pettyjohn of cnas, a think-tank.

...

As a result of such efforts, says Mr Bush, production of Stinger shoulder-fired surface-to-air missiles will increase six-fold (from very low levels); that of Javelins (anti-tank weapons that helped to halt the Russians’ initial offensive) will double; ditto for himars launchers, which have also proved their effectiveness in Ukraine, destroying arms dumps, command posts and barracks far behind the front lines.

Output of 155mm shells will triple and possibly increase six-fold, to over 1m a year, as the Pentagon sets up another production line in Texas and issues contracts to a firm in Canada. But much of the extra capacity will not be available until 2024 or even 2028. “I think the American economy is capable, and knows how to do this,” declares Mr Bush. “It’s simply a matter of time. It’s not a new thing. Industrial mobilisation in world war two and the Korean war also took time.”

A similar process is under way in Europe. Armin Papperger, boss of Germany’s Rheinmetall, says his firm can quickly lift production from 70,000 to 450,000 shells a year or more, having recently agreed to buy Expal Systems, a Spanish ammunition producer. Rheinmetall is also setting up a new munitions plant in Hungary. csg, a Czech arms manufacturer that produced 100,000 shells last year, is hoping to boost its output to 150,000 this year. A Norwegian firm, Nammo, could also increase production. Former Warsaw Pact countries are even toying with reopening factories to make 152mm munitions, so Ukraine can keep using its Soviet artillery.

But for all the talk of urgency, European governments have not been signing many procurement contracts. Mr Papperger says he is prepared to “pre-finance” some of the investment required to accelerate production of shells and missiles, but there are limits to what private companies will do without firm orders.

...

Even at newly accelerated rates of production, according to Seth Jones of the Centre for Strategic and International Studies (csis), an American think-tank, replacing the 8,500 Javelins that Ukraine has received will take nearly seven years. As for Stingers, Ukraine has already received as many (1,600) as all buyers bar America over the past 20 years. The Pentagon will probably order more advanced alternatives instead of Stingers for itself, but to replace those used in Ukraine would take more than six years

...

The difficulties often lurk in the second and third layer of suppliers. They are often highly specialised but small enterprises. The barriers to entry for new firms are high because of the exacting certification required to provide equipment to the armed forces and other peculiarities of doing business with defence ministries. This means that particular widgets in weapons are often made by only one firm, raising the risk of a breakdown. Bottlenecks include shortages of labour, semiconductors, tools, sub-components and more.

...

Bill LaPlante, the Pentagon’s under-secretary for acquisition, says America will increasingly have to think of including surge capacity when it buys weapons. “We have to be comfortable with the fact that what we may be building may not be used.” Industry executives note that, with foresight, it is cheaper to store tools than to build them anew. In the end, though, the capacity to surge will come at a cost; maintaining the ability to build weapons quickly tomorrow means having more expensive ones today.

...

But standardisation and joint procurement are hard, all the more so when they are attempted across national borders. nato has been banging the drum for it for as long as anyone can remember. The European Defence Agency was set up in 2004 to boost collaboration among European Union members. But it has no authority, and must rely on persuasion. Only about 18% of eu defence spending is collaborative.

...

Russia’s armament factories are not waiting to negotiate contracts with the Kremlin; they are already working round the clock. Sanctions may be impeding them from buying the microprocessors needed for precision munitions (hence reports that allies of Russia, such as Kazakhstan, have been taking huge orders for Western domestic appliances to strip them of their chips and pass them on to Russian arms firms), but few would bet against Russia scraping together enough shells for the next offensive and the one after that. Mr Putin no doubt subscribes to Stalin’s dictum “quantity has a quality all its own”.

As for China, over the past 20 years it has been building up the world’s largest stockpile of precision-guided land-based missiles. It wants to prevent American sea and air forces, particularly carrier groups, from coming to Taiwan’s rescue during a Chinese blockade or invasion. To counterbalance the Chinese arsenal, America would need large stocks of long-range precision missiles of its own, to threaten Chinese naval forces from beyond the range of China’s formidable air defences.

These are not the sort of weapons being sent to Ukraine, so the effort to defend one American ally is not jeopardising the security of another. But America still does not have nearly enough of them. csis has modelled a conflict with China in the Taiwan Strait in which America exhausts its inventory of long-range air-to-sea missiles in less than a week. This year the Pentagon is planning to buy just 88 such missiles. It currently takes two years to produce most of the relevant munitions, Mr Jones points out. And those lead times are for the delivery of the first missiles not the last ones.

Would China, too, have trouble staying in the fight? It has by far the world’s largest manufacturing capacity and has little compunction about bossing private firms about, let alone state-owned enterprises. It also has the advantage of deciding when an invasion would occur.

Wars are won or lost for all sorts of reasons. Leadership, tactics, morale, logistics and technology all play their part. But running out of ammunition before the other side is never a winning strategy.

# ? Feb 20, 2023 14:30

stealie72: Jan 10, 2007

Grand Fromage posted:

I'm sure there's serious security, but also I really don't think Russia is at "let's assassinate the US president" levels of crazy.

My first though when the news broke was "maybe Zelensky can finally get a little fresh air for the afternoon, because even Putin isn't crazy enough to kill a US president."

# ? Feb 20, 2023 14:46

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

Duzzy Funlop posted:

Help me out here, how do the logistics of that visit even work compared to a regular presidential visit.

US presidents travel with a medium army and some serious military hardware, airspace is restricted, non-commercial air-traffic is completely verboten, commercial air-traffic is severely affected, and big-rear end QRF detachments sit around on high-alert in several different places.

How does any of this work in an active warzone with a nation-state adversary? Is it a massive compromise of your overkill-levels of security and pivots entirely on secrecy and a quick in-and-out under the legal umbrella of a diplomatic mission?
Or is the easier answer that you do it all by being completely open with Russia and let them know "listen here, Jack, a piece of ordnance is even moved in the general direction of Kyiv on Monday, let alone mounted on an airframe/loaded into a barrel, the world ends"?

Subquestion what actually happens if the world's most unlikely piece of shrapnel takes him out? Does all of Russia turn to silver glass?

# ? Feb 20, 2023 14:48

BIG HEADLINE: Jun 13, 2006; "Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

Comrade Blyatlov posted:

Subquestion what actually happens if the world's most unlikely piece of shrapnel takes him out? Does all of Russia turn to silver glass?

Not until after Kamala sends Putin a "thank you" message through the Hotline on the DL.

But no, the world wouldn't instantly explode. There's an acknowledgement of risk in doing anything like this for a head of state.

BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Feb 20, 2023

# ? Feb 20, 2023 14:54

Handsome Ralph: Sep 3, 2004; Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!

psydude posted:

I'm guessing the secret service and DSS have been prepping for this for months and keeping specific dates secret to prevent it from leaking back to the Russians.

What I'd be curious about is how they actually got to Kyiv. I mean, we all know Joe loves trains, but...

He took a train, and the Russians were told a few hours ahead of time Biden would be visiting Kyiv so they could avoid any issues.

Wonder how that phone call went.

# ? Feb 20, 2023 14:59

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

Handsome Ralph posted:

He took a train, and the Russians were told a few hours ahead of time Biden would be visiting Kyiv so they could avoid any issues.

Wonder how that phone call went.

I hope it was full-on Diamond Joe poo poo.

# ? Feb 20, 2023 15:02

Icon Of Sin: Dec 26, 2008

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

I hope it was full-on Diamond Joe poo poo.

�Listen Jack, I�m going to Kyiv for a fuckin� ice cream cone and to do some sick burnouts in my trans-am. gently caress with either of those, and about a thousand suns rise in Moscow before the day�s up. Deal with it.�

# ? Feb 20, 2023 15:08

Handsome Ralph: Sep 3, 2004; Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!

I want to imagine the phone call boiled down to. "Hey just a heads up, Biden's going to Kyiv in a few hours. gently caress around, and find out. Or don't." click

And maybe part of it was? But I'm sure the real contingency is if the Russians even hinted they might try pulling something, Secret Service would pull the plug real quick.

# ? Feb 20, 2023 15:11

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

But this is just going to put him in range of Yuri�s psychic towers :tinfoil:

# ? Feb 20, 2023 15:13

Blistex: Oct 30, 2003; Macho Business
Donkey Wrestler

Handsome Ralph posted:

He took a train, and the Russians were told a few hours ahead of time Biden would be visiting Kyiv so they could avoid any issues.

Wonder how that phone call went.

"Listen Blyat"

# ? Feb 20, 2023 15:14

Arc Light: Sep 26, 2013

Comrade Blyatlov posted:

Subquestion what actually happens if the world's most unlikely piece of shrapnel takes him out? Does all of Russia turn to silver glass?

Presumably, many of us in this thread would become interesting scorch marks for a future civilization to discover. With any luck, I'd have just enough time to rush home and finally try a new method of poaching an egg that I've been telling myself I'd try (and putting off for years) to make Eggs Benedict. I have a standing agreement with some of the guys at the 8th Air Force AOC that, in exchange for letting them skip the queue for comm support, they would in turn give me a heads-up if the nukes start flying. Given that I live in a major city, I'd put my odds of surviving a nuclear attack near zero percent. Having previously served as part of the US Air Force's primary nuclear bomber force, I can say with confidence that I'd rather die instantly in the initial exchange rather than survive it to die slowly in what comes next.

In all seriousness, though, I'd think this was an incredibly real example of FAFO. I'd suspect Russia was warned that the US president would be in Kyiv and it would be an unfathomably bad idea to attack while he's there.

# ? Feb 20, 2023 15:32

Stultus Maximus: Dec 21, 2009; USPOL May

psydude posted:

https://www.economist.com/briefing/2023/02/19/the-west-is-struggling-to-forge-a-new-arsenal-of-democracy

Something something professionals talk logistics:

(extremely good and long article that I've edited down a bit to the most salient points)

I wonder how much of the shortage of shells is due to lack of air power. The US and probably all of NATO have a warfighting model that stresses achieving air superiority and using air support. Ukraine has to do all of its strikes with rocket and gun artillery.

# ? Feb 20, 2023 15:36

bulletsponge13: Apr 28, 2010

I'm going to swing a guess that the 'pencil' requested in the footage is an Anti Personnel rocket; they look vaguely pencil.

The standard HEAT rocket produces little shrapnel. I can tell you with 100% certainty that you can be exposed and have one detonate within arms reach and still be in the fight.

# ? Feb 20, 2023 15:47

Valtonen: May 13, 2014; Tanks still suck but you don't gotta hand it to the Axis either.

Stultus Maximus posted:

I wonder how much of the shortage of shells is due to lack of air power. The US and probably all of NATO have a warfighting model that stresses achieving air superiority and using air support. Ukraine has to do all of its strikes with rocket and gun artillery.

I doubt this has anything to do with it; even European NATO powers have found themselves short of munitions anytime things get dicey- I think French ran out of bombs in Syria?

It is just the basic math and preparedness for ammo use between Iraqi freedom 1-15 and near-peer war. It�s like preparing alcohol for watching hockey on your couch by yourself but ending up in a whole frat party instead with 55+attendees. If you plan for one and the other happens your plans need to re-adjust and the West still has not revved up the wholesale scaling of production that the Cold War thread has argued about whether it exists or not because it is a big deal to start it up.

# ? Feb 20, 2023 15:56

psydude: Apr 1, 2008

Valtonen posted:

I doubt this has anything to do with it; even European NATO powers have found themselves short of munitions anytime things get dicey- I think French ran out of bombs in Syria?

It is just the basic math and preparedness for ammo use between Iraqi freedom 1-15 and near-peer war. It’s like preparing alcohol for watching hockey on your couch by yourself but ending up in a whole frat party instead with 55+attendees. If you plan for one and the other happens your plans need to re-adjust and the West still has not revved up the wholesale scaling of production that the Cold War thread has argued about whether it exists or not because it is a big deal to start it up.

Yep. I edited it out, but the article alludes to the issues the UK and French faced during Libya, and how the US also struggled in Syria and Northern Iraq during the ISIS campaign. So the problems aren't restricted to artillery, but are also present in all aspects of the ammunition stockpile. Most worrisome, the last couple of paragraphs point out that the US would exhaust its long range missile supplies in the first couple of days in a war over Taiwan.

# ? Feb 20, 2023 16:00

Infidelicious: Apr 9, 2013

IMO the second guy in the dugout would've been in the way if he was being be more active.

That's a really small fighting position that isn't set up for the direction most of the fight is happening; having to be more cognizant of each other to avoid friendly fire or blocking each other's shots, or if a grenade landed in the trench would've made them less effective.

# ? Feb 20, 2023 16:05

Tiny Timbs: Sep 6, 2008

Infidelicious posted:

IMO the second guy in the dugout would've been in the way if he was being be more active.

That's a really small fighting position that isn't set up for the direction most of the fight is happening; having to be more cognizant of each other to avoid friendly fire or blocking each other's shots, or if a grenade landed in the trench would've made them less effective.

If the ammo buddy had gotten hurt they probably both would�ve been hosed

# ? Feb 20, 2023 16:20

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 15:14

Alchenar: Apr 9, 2008

Infidelicious posted:

IMO the second guy in the dugout would've been in the way if he was being be more active.

That's a really small fighting position that isn't set up for the direction most of the fight is happening; having to be more cognizant of each other to avoid friendly fire or blocking each other's shots, or if a grenade landed in the trench would've made them less effective.

Oh poo poo you are right, the BMP has driven up behind their position hasn't it?

# ? Feb 20, 2023 16:31

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