UKMT Winterval 2023 - Fisking the Trussay - The Something Awful Forums

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT Winterval 2023 - Fisking the Trussay

Renfield: Feb 29, 2008

Anyone remember the promises made by people with similar religious views, during the US Supreme Court hearings, when they all swore under oath that they had no intention of going anywhere near Roe v Wade ?

I'd give her assurances the same weight..

# ? Feb 21, 2023 16:45

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# ? May 26, 2024 11:58

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Like I said, I don't believe her, certainly not to the point where I would not simply vote for someone who has better thoughts, but the interview style is utter dogshit for baby brain journalists who operate like phone menu systems.

# ? Feb 21, 2023 16:46

Gonzo McFee: Jun 19, 2010

Darth Walrus posted:

https://twitter.com/skippy_0h/status/1628001973193637888?s=46&t=Su0XL_8lbFN4oUmDXVLsHQ

Starting to wonder what lessons about the Holocaust the Holocaust Education Trust exists to impart.

It's the story of how the Jews got jumped into being white, along with the Irish and the Italians.

# ? Feb 21, 2023 16:59

Bobstar: Feb 8, 2006; KartooshFace, you are not responding efficiently!

Reveilled posted:

It was weirdly sad, especially contrasted with that other article about the taliban fighters who are utterly miserable because they had to transition into office life without the brainwashing.

Sounds like the end of The Shield

# ? Feb 21, 2023 17:16

Gonzo McFee: Jun 19, 2010

https://twitter.com/sunny_hundal/status/1628024482530041861

You know I'm starting to wonder if these people weren't being honest about their views on bigotry.

# ? Feb 21, 2023 17:26

Angepain: Jul 13, 2012; what keeps happening to my clothes

I'm sure we can definitely trust the politician who has already said she'd vote against gay marriage and said some incredibly sus things about exemptions to conversation therapy bans to keep her personal morality to herself

# ? Feb 21, 2023 17:34

History Comes Inside!: Nov 20, 2004

I like my politicians amoral, personally.

Then you know they�re just doing whatever makes them and their friends the most money and all the damage they�re doing to the vulnerable on the way is just a happy accident, rather than targeted persecution for persecution�s sake.

# ? Feb 21, 2023 17:37

The Question IRL: Jun 8, 2013; Only two contestants left! Here is Doom's chance for revenge...

Gonzo McFee posted:

https://twitter.com/sunny_hundal/status/1628024482530041861

You know I'm starting to wonder if these people weren't being honest about their views on bigotry.

....Okay, so you don't think people should be judged for their religious beliefs.
But you do think it's okay for the (possible) Scottish First Minister to be basically telling your own child that "they are wrong for existing."

# ? Feb 21, 2023 17:48

The Wicked ZOGA: Jan 27, 2022; Can't post for 4 days!

"we are essentially driving out religious conservatives from leadership"

Poggers

# ? Feb 21, 2023 17:51

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

There is a weird presumption that people should vote for politicians who admit they have beliefs that the voter does not like, as long as they claim they won't act on them.

But there is no explanation for why they shouldn't just vote for politicians who hold beliefs the voter agrees with? If your beliefs just aren't market competitive then why would they win elections?

The complaint doesn't seem to be coherently about the framing of the interview but specifically that people might not vote for her if she says that. Which uh... tough poo poo?

# ? Feb 21, 2023 17:52

Gonzo McFee: Jun 19, 2010

https://twitter.com/sunny_hundal/status/1628024875766931458?s=20

Ah I see. So really Corbyn should have said "I hate the Jews, personally, but I promise to do nothing about it as its not a popular view" and Sunny would have been fine with it.

Incredible posting.

# ? Feb 21, 2023 17:53

The Wicked ZOGA: Jan 27, 2022; Can't post for 4 days!

I would ensure that people with unpopular, socially illiberal positions cannot effect changes in the law, by not voting for them

# ? Feb 21, 2023 17:55

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

The Wicked ZOGA posted:

I would ensure that people with unpopular, socially illiberal positions cannot effect changes in the law, by not voting for them

Bigot extremist! Kill them!

# ? Feb 21, 2023 18:03

Julio Cruz: May 19, 2006

love to point out how bad it is that people won't vote for someone with unpopular views

# ? Feb 21, 2023 19:10

Bobby Deluxe: May 9, 2004

Gonzo McFee posted:

https://twitter.com/sunny_hundal/status/1628024875766931458?s=20

Ah I see. So really Corbyn should have said "I hate the Jews, personally, but I promise to do nothing about it as its not a popular view" and Sunny would have been fine with it.

Incredible posting.

The same way everyone was extremely calm and normal about Corbyn being a republican.

# ? Feb 21, 2023 19:13

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

You cannot prove that corbyn would not have decapitated the queen with a curvy foreign sword if he had won. You CAN NOT prove it.

# ? Feb 21, 2023 19:19

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Gonzo McFee posted:

https://twitter.com/sunny_hundal/status/1628024875766931458?s=20

Ah I see. So really Corbyn should have said "I hate the Jews, personally, but I promise to do nothing about it as its not a popular view" and Sunny would have been fine with it.

Incredible posting.

Just a perfectly spherical liberal.

https://twitter.com/sunny_hundal/status/1628029027502985216

And what will you do when the racists say "Sunny Hundal looks foreign and shouldn't be allowed to express anything" Sunny?

# ? Feb 21, 2023 19:24

Gonzo McFee: Jun 19, 2010

Rational Hitler

# ? Feb 21, 2023 19:55

Tijuana Bibliophile: Dec 30, 2008; Scratchmo

Well the question of whether a politician is able to effectively advocate for policy that's entirely contradictory to their personal faith comes down to how much faith you have in that individual politician. Thus, since both are questions of faith, neither of them can affect policy, rendering the objection moot. Moot I say

# ? Feb 21, 2023 19:55

Tijuana Bibliophile: Dec 30, 2008; Scratchmo

Gonzo McFee posted:

https://twitter.com/sunny_hundal/status/1628024875766931458?s=20

Ah I see. So really Corbyn should have said "I hate the Jews, personally, but I promise to do nothing about it as its not a popular view" and Sunny would have been fine with it.

Incredible posting.

That's one sizzling steamer of a take right there jesus

# ? Feb 21, 2023 19:58

The Perfect Element: Dec 5, 2005; "This is a bit of a... a poof song"

Such bizarre thinking... Like, the whole point of democracy is that the people elect politicians that will represent their views. If, in general, peoples views are contrary to those of religious politicians, then, well, sucks to be them. Democracy is doing its job.

# ? Feb 21, 2023 20:06

Bobstar: Feb 8, 2006; KartooshFace, you are not responding efficiently!

Guavanaut posted:

Just a perfectly spherical liberal.

I was pleased to see the Paradox of Tolerance comic posted in the replies... and less pleased that he took from it "this refers only to literal Nazis" :sigh:

# ? Feb 21, 2023 20:14

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

"Can I offer you some apples?" asked the tree eagerly.

"gently caress off, you goddamn Nazi," said the child.

The racist tree was upset, because while it was very racist, it did not personally subscribe to Hitler's fascist ideology.

The Perfect Element posted:

Such bizarre thinking... Like, the whole point of democracy is that the people elect politicians that will represent their views. If, in general, peoples views are contrary to those of religious politicians, then, well, sucks to be them. Democracy is doing its job.

No you have to be grown up. Grown up is when you hold your nose and vote for someone who is a member of a rabidly intolerant fringe church because that's the tough decision.

It's important that this only works in one direction though. The rabidly intolerant fringe church doesn't have to support you or your existence at all and you can't complain about that because freedom.

# ? Feb 21, 2023 20:18

domhal: Dec 30, 2008; 0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin. All he has managed to do is make himself *sad*. It has, however, made him into a very, very smart boy with something like a university degree in Truth. Instead of building Communism, he now builds a precise model of this grotesque, duplicitous world.

OwlFancier posted:

There is a weird presumption that people should vote for politicians who admit they have beliefs that the voter does not like, as long as they claim they won't act on them.

Then something happened that no one expected. The SNP membership voted for Forbes anyway. And no one - not the media, or the party elite - could explain it.

I just felt that paragraph had the cadence of an Adam Curtis thing

# ? Feb 21, 2023 20:19

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

The ideal society is one that is constantly skirting the border of nazism but does not actually enact it.

And presumably the ideal politician is one which believes all the worst things but never actually does them, because this shows great personal character, unlike simply believing good things and doing them, that is too easy.

# ? Feb 21, 2023 20:20

kingturnip: Apr 18, 2008

"You see, if a leader actually wants to kill every Muslim in the UK, but has to settle for merely throwing them all into concentration camps, that's democracy working as it should do", says Sunny Hundal, who finds this sort of progress encouraging.

# ? Feb 21, 2023 20:30

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

It is especially funny in context of his pinned tweet.
https://twitter.com/sunny_hundal/status/1587010415661391879?cxt=HHwWjoC9hZLkmIYsAAAA

# ? Feb 21, 2023 20:37

Jaeluni Asjil: Apr 18, 2018; Sorry I thought you were a landlord when I gave you your old avatar!

Reveilled posted:

It was weirdly sad, especially contrasted with that other article about the taliban fighters who are utterly miserable because they had to transition into office life without the brainwashing.

Some years ago (maybe 15-20! Time has no meaning anymore!) a cache of taliban (IIRC) paperwork was found and each unit had budgets and fighters had to submit receipts and there were receipts for all sorts of things such as packets of sweets, bottles of water etc. as well as a unit's 'pension' payments to widows and orphans! It was very bureacratic.

# ? Feb 21, 2023 20:38

Tomberforce: May 30, 2006

Yeah I have two kiddos and we haven't got married in part as a deliberate gently caress you to that regressive fuckwittery tbh (also that poo poo is expensive).

# ? Feb 21, 2023 21:56

Gonzo McFee: Jun 19, 2010

https://twitter.com/POLITICOEurope/status/1628126912752091142

UK jumping in to give a defence of homophobia, transphobia and even hatred of unmarried couples!

lmao remember when they had you convinced that they gave a poo poo about antisemitism?

# ? Feb 21, 2023 21:56

Endjinneer: Aug 17, 2005; Fallen Rib

If there's only a 10% chance a politician you despise will enact the thing you hate, you should definitely vote for them because there's a 90% chance they'll do what you want instead. Fact.

Overheard today:

Trainmoron posted:

They're putting mesh screens around playgrounds so the asylum seekers can't see in. They're not reporting it because they don't want you to know about it

Oh yeah? Mesh? Like, metal but with lots of holes in? That's definitely not to stop balls and things getting kicked into the road, and also non-climbable?

# ? Feb 21, 2023 22:05

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Asylum seekers see using radio waves, that's why there's 5G everywhere.

# ? Feb 21, 2023 22:16

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Why would "they" report on the minutae of playground renovations?

# ? Feb 21, 2023 22:35

Tomberforce: May 30, 2006

I posted a little while ago about the letters that my mother in law showed me a few days ago which were written by her Uncle who was killed fighting in the Spanish Civil War with the International Brigade. The letter dates from December 1937 and he was killed around Aragon in March 1938. He was clearly a deeply committed and idealistic member of the CPGB and the letter outlines in detail his rationale for his Socialist worldview and he goes on to make some eerily prescient observations (even going as far as to use the word holocaust - in a letter from 1937) about the coming global storm. He was 23 when he was killed but he writes with an eloquence beyond his years. I thought it was a genuinely fascinating document both for its observations of the situation of the time and the prevailing relevance of many of the themes. I thought some of you might find it interesting too!

This is the first page of the letter - it's 11 pages so I will just post my very imperfect transcription for the rest of it.

quote:

10/12/1937

Dear Aunt and Uncle,

I have received letters from both John and Hilda, imploring me to give up this �silly Communism� as I am in danger of losing my job.
Apparently I am suspect of basking in the sunshine of high brow dilettantism and of embarking on the �road to ruin�. This is not an attempt to be funny.
I have been accused almost in these terms of playing at Socialism. This is not surprising considering that my critics have no knowledge of socialism or
for that matter of the relations between man and man in the process of production. I have replied to my brother and sister and attempted to make the
position clear and I should like to explain to you very clearly just why I am not in the least intimidated by these criticisms or the possibility of losing my job.
When I first became a socialist I did so because I thought it was rather a clever clever thing to do and I used to hang about holding intellectual discussions
with charming little boys in bowler hats who have now graduated into pillars of the Church and excellent sidesmen (excluding those, of course, who subsequently
cut out all the swagger and got down to business). In other words I was playing with socialism.

But since I have been a member of the Holborn Branch of the C.P. I have had a lot of ???? knocked off and a considerable amount of common sense knocked
into my head. Like many other occupations. The people who enter for the fun of the thing get ? against some practical work and either collapse altogether or revise
themselves in such a way as to make them equal to the job. The first thing that happened to me was that I was given a great deal of practical work.
Canvassing, selling the Daily Worker on a street corner, envelope addressing, Trade Union work (I am a member of the Shop assistants Union) stewarding at meetings,
taking a ???? class, helping to organize socials and dances writing ????? and pamphlets, and organizing literature sales in the point shops in Fleet St. The result was that
I was learning more from the printers than they were learning from me. Being broad minded they bore with my pomposity for a while and gradually taught me what the working
class movement is and what loyalty to that movement means. The result is that wherever I go in the working class movement now instead of gentle toleration on their part there
is a mutual trust and as a party comrade I am expected to behave like a man and I�m treated like one.

But what is this communism that it means so much to me? It is our mutual struggle for a better life and an end to the more appalling miseries that beset us today.
It is the struggle against the impending doom of imperialist war. And it is at this particular stage above all the working class against fascism.
Everywhere I go on the streets of London I meet and talk to people whose lives are weighed down by the price of food and whose constant anxiety is food and shelter.
The ???? need of millions of us in security from starvation in its many aspects and war. There are 12,000,000 people in this country living on less that �3 per week and
thousands who haven�t seen a days work in years. The ugly conditions of industry have sapped the vitality of vast areas and dejected the people who live there.
For many more the conditions of employment are to come cap in hand to our rulers and be grateful for our natural rights. On the land, as you very well know, a labourer gets on
the average 35s per week and the small farmer is at his wits end to keep going because of the ??? rent and tithe system and the impossibility of finding a market.
??? are suicidal because the only goods we can exchange are used articles for ??? are agricultural goods. The more we prohibit imports of agricultural produce the less
we export in industrial goods. This means less profits, less wages, less means of consumption, less market for home produce and so the vicious circle.
Already in industry over-production has been reached as witness the secret ???? of the federation of British Industries to leading manufacturers.

This means sooner or later slump and the only thriving industry is steel. Steel for guns and for the capitalist, that�s the only way out. These guns threaten you and me and unless
all of us do something about [it] we shall be in the middle of the most dreadful holocaust imaginable. You must realize that war means that we are all in the front line.
In every military college in Europe it is being taught that future objectives are civil populations. Panic must be struck in the enemy. I ask you to envisage the effect of an air raid on London.
Millions of the people will scatter in the home counties searching for food, and there will be no food. This is no idle fantasy of my own it is the considered opinion of Winston Churchill
one of the most far seeing of the ruling class who gave voice to this opinion in the House of Commons. ?? he saw this as an example of the necessity for fascism
(the militarization of the whole nation in preparation for war on the ??? of Nazi Germany). You may say yes but we all know this and the national Government is a peace force.
That�s just what it isn�t! The national Government like Hitler realized the contradiction of capitalist society want in an age of plenty.

They realise that only Socialism can end this system but Socialism means divesting them of the privileged position and they�ll hang on to that to the last drop of working class blood.
How has Hitler been able to come to power? By the encouragement of international capital (Jews as well). The capitalists in Germany were threatened with Socialism to such an extent
that nobody could maintain power unless he put forward a socialist sounding programme. Hitler was clever enough to do this and called his party the National Socialist Party.
He just said to the workers put me in power and I�ll right every wrong and because the leaders of the Germany Labour Party were weak and didn�t realise the implications and the fact that
Hitler was actually ??? English and German capitalists they lost the confidence of the masses of the people for just that short space of time to allow the fascist to get to power.
Once in they murdered the Trade Union leaders, the Communists, the working class Jews as scapegoats and interned hundreds of middle class thinkers who were brave enough to oppose them.
They regimented the whole nation under the iron rule of the �leaders�, forced down wages �Guns not butter� says Goering and blackmailed the British capitalists for loans by threatening the
wrath of the working class and promising an attack on the land of the Soviets. These are the people who with Italy and Japan that our ruling class have seeked to ally with.
Recognition of Franco, Hitler -Halifax talks, vitriolic attacks on the Soviet Union in the press. All these things serve a purpose. Owing to the antagonism between all imperialisms
it is only possible to form an alliance at the expense of another power. The other power in the long run is the Soviet Union. Take the Japanese invasion in China, some of the
conservative elements have supported the collective front against Japan because they are stealing our markets in China. But the more far seeing members of the cabinet say no.
If China wins she goes Bolshevik and we get nothing. If Japan wins she can�t supply all Chinas needs and we get a rake off if we play our cards right.
Then if any of the fascist power threaten the empire we divert them against the Soviet Union. Sooner than later the expansionist Germany will press for more colonies,
however, and the stronger she gets the more insistent will become her demands. Again the ruling class realizes this and that is why we are rearming to crush Germany as in 1914-1918.
And that is where you and I are being led up the garden path for the protection of capital in the name of �defence�. What shall we do about it? Unite all the forces for peace in the country
and turn out the national Government. Enter the Franco-Soviet alliance and draw all the minority nations in Europe to our side and present a front to the fascists �They shall not pass�.
This in itself does not prevent war it gains time, however, and time is very valuable. The fight for peace and the fight for socialism are indissoluble. If the fascist cannot expand they have to
relate production with consumption in their own countries and this they cannot do. The longer the peace the nearer to Socialism. Socialism once achieved throughout Europe means no more war.
This is the crux of the whole issue the profit making system means antagonism and the bloody conflict for markets.
The system of production for use means concord, security, and hope for millions. Compared with the world state of socialism, all previous history has been the prehistory of mankind.
In Socialism mankind has mastered the Frankenstein�s monster of economy and we begin for the first time in History to live. Fascism is the last degraded ditch of monopoly capital.
It is the most dire barbarism that can befall mankind, with its glorification of war and worship of money.

[Time?] Our fight for socialism will be fraught with trouble and suffering. As it is the members of the Communist International have been persecuted to such an extent that the Spanish
inquisition pales into insignificance in comparison but it is an honorable fight and I have pledged myself to play my part in it.

Foremost in the struggle for years has been the British working clas with its tremendous traditions of loyalty and courage. As Engels said, �Once the British working class becomes conscious
of its mission there is not a power on earth that will withstand it for a day�. Well that�s how I feel atbout it and I don�t intend to bow the knee to the rapscallions at Shell -Mex or any
other money-kinds for that matter My life as a revolutionary will be a dangerous one (already my letters are opened) but surely you wouldn�t have me cut and run.

P.S I am staying at Langes over xmas but I�ll come up and see you.

Bert.

Tomberforce fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Feb 21, 2023

# ? Feb 21, 2023 22:52

HopperUK: Apr 29, 2007; Why would an ambulance be leaving the hospital?

That's incredible, thank you so much for writing that up.

e: the missing word is 'critics'. It is not surprising considering that my critics have no knowledge of socialism

# ? Feb 21, 2023 22:55

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Great letter, "Fascism is the last degraded ditch of monopoly capital." is
:discourse:

OwlFancier posted:

Why would "they" report on the minutae of playground renovations?

Nonces go to playgrounds to look at kids.

They also do other far worse things, but I guess the implication is that asylum seekers are also looking at kids in playgrounds, therefore by the transitive property of the evil eye becoming nonces.

Fortunately this can be stopped with a Faraday cage.

# ? Feb 21, 2023 23:11

Tomberforce: May 30, 2006

HopperUK posted:

That's incredible, thank you so much for writing that up.

e: the missing word is 'critics'. It is not surprising considering that my critics have no knowledge of socialism

Makes sense cheers!

There is a second shorter letter dated from just before his deployment which I'll endeavour to type up soon too.

If anyone is curious and wants a link to the google drive link for the full letter feel free to hit me up.

# ? Feb 21, 2023 23:16

Private Speech: Mar 30, 2011; I HAVE EVEN MORE WORTHLESS BEANIE BABIES IN MY COLLECTION THAN I HAVE WORTHLESS POSTS IN THE BEANIE BABY THREAD YET I STILL HAVE THE TEMERITY TO CRITICIZE OTHERS' COLLECTIONS

IF YOU SEE ME TALKING ABOUT BEANIE BABIES, PLEASE TELL ME TO

EAT. SHIT.

Guavanaut posted:

Great letter, "Fascism is the last degraded ditch of monopoly capital." is

Nonces go to playgrounds to look at kids.

They also do other far worse things, but I guess the implication is that asylum seekers are also looking at kids in playgrounds, therefore by the transitive property of the evil eye becoming nonces.

Fortunately this can be stopped with a Faraday cage.

One wonders if a similar effect can't be achieved in a more portable manner. Like with a head covering made out of some lightweight metal - say, aluminium, perhaps.

# ? Feb 21, 2023 23:20

killerwhat: May 13, 2010

Tomberforce posted:

This is the first page of the letter - it's 11 pages so I will just post my very imperfect transcription for the rest of it.

Thanks for this, it�s fascinating and impressive. Such a young man to be so well read, considered, and eloquent.

# ? Feb 21, 2023 23:46

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# ? May 26, 2024 11:58

Julio Cruz: May 19, 2006

https://twitter.com/jessphillips/status/1627969170070544385

of course Jessflaps' tweets have gifs of her in them. of course

# ? Feb 21, 2023 23:59

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