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Bobby Deluxe posted:I personally think they've overestimated how many players can be arsed to have to think about what they're doing all the time Yeah, this. It's good that there are activities in the game you can just jump into in an instant regardless of what you have equipped. Requiring you to craft a custom build for each activity or even for a new week of the same activity would be a mistake
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Feb 21, 2023 21:57
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Maybe, but additional power seems to be part of the plan, since we can only get up to 1810 from gear, but have a max effectiveness of up to 1820 for some content. it feels more like they are trying to go the direction you are wanting, but they can't just flip a switch overnight. Power is probably extremely load-bearing and just removing it would commit them to a year or more of the current system without any meaningful changes while they work out the new system internally. This feels like duct tape to try to get most of the way to a system they want without breaking everything in the process.
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Feb 21, 2023 22:03
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haveblue posted:Yeah, this. It's good that there are activities in the game you can just jump into in an instant regardless of what you have equipped. Requiring you to craft a custom build for each activity or even for a new week of the same activity would be a mistake from a completely casual, armchair perspective it kinda feels like they came up with these difficulty changes then finally said, "maybe this necessitates some sort of baked-in load-out manager?" e: it also very much reminds me a bit of the struggle that goes on between PoE devs and players every few seasons/leagues. The lead dev wants the game to always be challenging and a huge chunk of the recurring player base just wants to go fast and watch big number go bigger, which seem like two wholly incompatible desires. Lib and let die fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Feb 21, 2023 |
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Feb 21, 2023 22:05
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Saltagreppo is excited about the changes which means they’re poo poo
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Feb 21, 2023 22:19
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RocketRaygun posted:it feels more like they are trying to go the direction you are wanting, but they can't just flip a switch overnight. Power is probably extremely load-bearing and just removing it would commit them to a year or more of the current system without any meaningful changes while they work out the new system internally. Like, if they wanted to get most of the way to the system, why are they increasing the power cap for the expansion? I can't really wrap my head around what design or tech allows them to make all these difficulty changes, but not skip increasing the power. Just feels like this is going to make the start of lightfall that much more annoying as you deal with your entire gun collection needing infusion.
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Feb 21, 2023 22:29
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Also funny to be like 'we care about accessibility, also we are removing the lowest difficulty setting.'
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Feb 21, 2023 22:34
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I think it'll be good. I would've brought back each Ls Having a weapon to grind if I was taking a pass over them but w/e my only concern is with making lake of shadows and arms dealer GM too much harder than their current state: I think it's healthy to have some softballs that can serve as someone's first GM.
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Feb 21, 2023 22:34
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A potential area of fucky-wucky is that some, but not all, Dungeon and Raid activities don't have a 'Normal' mode. They have a 'Legend' mode as the lower difficulty option. I have to imagine that's on Bungie's radar, but that would be quite funny if on Day 1, Duality and Vow of the Disciple suddenly had -15 power deltas and shot up to 1830 power level Nitpick here but I also feel like Master Nightfall and Grandmaster Nightfall are an annoying distinction. Especially now that forced delta is a part of Master content. It always seemed weird that Master was the hardest version of a Raid or Dungeon, and was the source of adept gear, but for Nightfalls you have to do the GRANDmaster mode for Adepts. They can't get rid of the distinction as long as they want The Hardest Raid to be +20 but The Hardest Strike to be +25, but the whole thing just reeks of bad design
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Feb 21, 2023 22:47
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On the other hand, we are frequently reminded that onscreen text is at best loosely related to the actual activity config, so it’s more likely that “legend” has multiple context-dependent meanings for a time
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Feb 21, 2023 22:58
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Oxyclean posted:I dont think they need to Ctrl+F Delete "Power" probably because they did that before they decided to remove power. Not to mention they get literally millions of players for expansions that expect to be able to make number go up. The seasonal stuff isn't for the bulk of the people that buy expansions. It's for the average joe who rotates around games and likes to see progress bars fill up for a month before going to another progress bar go up simulator like warzone.
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Feb 21, 2023 23:18
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Well, due to sunsetting, they have to keep power. The Difficulties have to be quantified so that a sunset piece of gear will make the Number lower. If they got rid of quantified levels and just had fixed 'difficulties' regardless of gear/artifact, they would effectively UnSunset all gear Even if/when they totally retire the climb and the grind, they'll have to leave it as a final Number so that sunsetting's stain can live on
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Feb 21, 2023 23:23
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RocketRaygun posted:probably because they did that before they decided to remove power. Not to mention they get literally millions of players for expansions that expect to be able to make number go up. But they could just choose to not make the power go up. It cannot be a technically hard thing to change if they were able to "suddenly" decide to add all the difficulty changes. There's also millions of players who expect a bunch of content to be a cakewalk - so I don't think the expectation of a power climb is very important - it hasn't been for a long time since it was downplayed in WQ with the way legend campaign worked. "Make number go up" isn't fun if it doesn't actually translate to anything. Like, for awhile now, pretty much all power increases accomplish is making you engage with the economy to spend upgrade modules or possibly play with new guns that drop. Repeating myself, but the fact they're adding more light cap/penalty activities just makes me sour that I'll have so many things I'll need to infuse up just to not be at a disadvantage. I realize you won't have a satisfying answer for me since you are not John Bungie, but you gotta agree it's kind of silly.
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Feb 21, 2023 23:45
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power level is not technically load bearing at all, but it is design load bearing. They can't take it out till they are sure that they have many other bar go up to replace big bar go up destiny: bar go up
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Feb 21, 2023 23:53
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I don't think many people would care if they effectively unsunset everything now, given the weapon power creep. Nobody's going to cry about that Go Figure they sharded. Especially if they bring back reprised Season of the Dawn and Forge weapons first.
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Feb 21, 2023 23:59
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Oxyclean posted:But they could just choose to not make the power go up. It cannot be a technically hard thing to change if they were able to "suddenly" decide to add all the difficulty changes. There's also millions of players who expect a bunch of content to be a cakewalk - so I don't think the expectation of a power climb is very important - it hasn't been for a long time since it was downplayed in WQ with the way legend campaign worked. "Make number go up" isn't fun if it doesn't actually translate to anything. I agree it's silly. I just get it in a weird way. It's not a perfect solution but it's better than nothing. Seasons aren't getting the power increase. They are just "not raising the power level" but that's only for stuff post-lightfall. This leads me to believe there are other elements in Lightfall that they are considering (like a wave of every day players who don't play this game as a hobby) and want to give them something like watching a number go up.
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Feb 22, 2023 00:02
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Junkenstein posted:I don't think many people would care if they effectively unsunset everything now, given the weapon power creep. Nobody's going to cry about that Go Figure they sharded. oh my god people would freak the gently caress out if bungie unsunset guns that they had deleted because they though that those guns were useless. Granted, Y2 perks aren't great in the current meta and the addition of an Origin Trait kind of soft sunset guns before that addition, so really it's not a big deal that those guns are gone... But boy people will freak out that they deleted their Blast Furnace or whatever and bungie unsunset the gun.
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Feb 22, 2023 00:05
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Junkenstein posted:I don't think many people would care if they effectively unsunset everything now, given the weapon power creep. Nobody's going to cry about that Go Figure they sharded. A nonzero amount of people on Reddit would scream bloody murder and also threaten all of bungie with the same, if they dared to unsunset.
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Feb 22, 2023 00:09
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Eh, some people might get upset, but they'll get upset about anything. Making a kludgy change rather then the right one cause a few nerds might get mad is silly. Powercreep of perks and origin traits should do most of the work to solve the issues of sunset guns. Like, why am I going to care too much about Hamemrhead when I have a Commeration that basically does the same thing but probably better? But yeah, the other angle is to just pull an Opulent/Ikelos and re-issue old fan favorites. "Nooo your old Ikelos has an now impossible roll!" Someone says as I yeet every 1.0.2 gun into the trash.
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Feb 22, 2023 00:11
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People bitching about a change and throwing a fit in the steam reviews or on various forums is not a concern for you or I, but it probably is from bungie's perspective and they want to avoid making people mad (because mad people dont spend money). I wouldn't discount it as a reason for not undoing sunsetting or trying to navigate around that issue.
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Feb 22, 2023 00:15
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RocketRaygun posted:But boy people will freak out that they deleted their Blast Furnace or whatever and bungie unsunset the gun. lmao delete my Blast Furnace what do you think I am, a terrorist? besides I kept two 
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Feb 22, 2023 00:27
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I still have my Midnight Coup because it was my first raid drop. Used it on the Leviathan in Haunted because it set your power level there.
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Feb 22, 2023 00:31
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All they have to do is add some kind of power level disadvantage to all currently sunset guns just like the one they are adding to activites.
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Feb 22, 2023 00:33
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Honestly, removing power could be as simple as just hiding the number to the player, and making any non-sunset guns and armor get treated as "at power" and any sunset guns are still going to be at the relative but hidden power floor and function exactly as they do now. Put a little warning on them in place of the power display that they'll function with a penalty.
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Feb 22, 2023 00:38
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Un-sunsetting would make me uninstall forever and never look back. These enemy changes are some real money paw poo poo. Make champs easier then put in a system where you still have to conform your load out because somebody at Bungie hates when you have control over your own build. "Seasonally" rotating surges is loving crazy
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Feb 22, 2023 00:52
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"Certain weapons do 25% more damage" is an interesting choice for Master Raids & Dungeons. Didn't they just recently say they were done with things like Particle Deconstruction that created a Gun Of The Season meta?
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Feb 22, 2023 01:02
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the opposite iirc, think they like it also the real monkeys paw is the match game changes "we heard you hated match game so we removed it!*" *and added it everywhere
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Feb 22, 2023 01:09
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victrix posted:the opposite iirc, think they like it Except it's not going to be anywhere near as severe as Match Game. It's going to be on par with Gambit.
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Feb 22, 2023 01:16
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Match Game is absolutely not the same as the new system lol The new system is the same as what we've had in Gambit forever. Yeah, 50% damage with mismatched weapons is not amazing, but also surprisingly not that bad. At parity (Delta 0) you could shred matched shields in Gambit in a couple shots, and unmatched in a few more. It makes matching elements far more useful but does not make mismatched weapons useless like Match Game did. The matching subclass thing is a thing they're trying, we'll see if it works out. They're clearly using Light Fall as a "gently caress and around and find out" period, and they're trying a tonne of new things. Some of these are gonna be great, some bad. But after the volume of statements that they need to change things up I'm glad they're trying stuff. The power stuff is clumsy but I also understand. Separating things by soft-cap, powerful and pinnacle is gonna be useful for data collection while trying the new system more than anything I feel. Surges seem... interesting? Strand and either Void or Solar weapons and abilities are getting a boost, which is neat, but using one of the two SURGE ELEMENTS(TM) will also net you +25% Kinetic damage. They really want us using kinetic weapons lol. I wonder if after the first season they're just gonna have 2 rotating subclasses, which would be a lot nicer than being forced to use one subclass for an entire season and have a single other option each week.
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Feb 22, 2023 01:30
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I'm still mildly surprised they didn't pair the shield elements with two elements, because there are so few strand and stasis shields in the game (I can't even recognize stasis shields at a glance)
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Feb 22, 2023 01:32
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victrix posted:I'm still mildly surprised they didn't pair the shield elements with two elements, because there are so few strand and stasis shields in the game (I can't even recognize stasis shields at a glance) There are no stasis Shields in the game, in fact No stasis Shields was a conscious decision as they did not want to split Match Game a 4th direction We'll see if this frees them up to have stasis and strand Shields now!
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Feb 22, 2023 01:37
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The stasis shields people found in the game were bugged, not actually meant to be stasis shields. They are introducing strand shields. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say they're rolling out stasis and strand shields to a lot of stuff in the update. As long as they don't have 3+ elements for shields in a strike/nightfall/whatever it'll be fine, because otherwise someone is gonna have to not BE SURGING if they want to match them. Which would be loving dumb. If they keep shields types to 2 then it's totally fine and there's no issues. Edit: In the Vidoc they explicitly showed Strand shields.
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Feb 22, 2023 01:37
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syntaxfunction posted:Edit: In the Vidoc they explicitly showed Strand shields. In Lightfall, you will be discovering another aspect of Darkness - something completely new, something no one in the history of the universe has ever found before! Except for all your enemies, they will have all developed shields that use it immediately. They're really good at that.
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Feb 22, 2023 01:41
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I had wondered what the point of Stasis Primaries was going to be, with Kinetics now doing 10% more damage than them And it appears to answer is "you might need one to crack a Stasis shield" Lame
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Feb 22, 2023 01:44
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Hopefully they're gonna do more with Stasis (like give us more grenades and melees and poo poo) especially with verb interaction and weapons, like we have with the light subclasses. Without some verb interaction most energy weapons (with the new kinetic buff) would fall into the "just for shields" territory, same as stasis. They've got a new perk for Void weapons to give Volatile (plus Repulsor Brace rules) so hoping they do some more with Stasis. They kind of need to. I'm looking forward to hotswapping weapons to optimise shooties. Especially things like the Dares weapons which literally have Hot Swap. It seems like it'll be way more active and engaging. I just think basic Vanguard Ops playlist should be easy mode at +5 delta or something, throw everyone a bone.
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Feb 22, 2023 01:54
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Meiteron posted:In Lightfall, you will be discovering another aspect of Darkness - something completely new, something no one in the history of the universe has ever found before! The very first cutscene after you learn to use Strand has some enemies running out, grabbing all your green string off the ground, and wearing it on their heads
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Feb 22, 2023 01:59
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syntaxfunction posted:Hopefully they're gonna do more with Stasis (like give us more grenades and melees and poo poo) especially with verb interaction and weapons, like we have with the light subclasses. Man at some point if stasis and strand are just going to have all the characteristics of Energy weapons, and enemies can now have Stasis and Strand Shields, what the hell are stasis and strand doing in the top slot??
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Feb 22, 2023 02:03
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Meiteron posted:In Lightfall, you will be discovering another aspect of Darkness - something completely new, something no one in the history of the universe has ever found before! The witness: “oh actually i know that dumb poo poo here’s some shields against it”
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Feb 22, 2023 02:03
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Man at some point if stasis and strand are just going to have all the characteristics of Energy weapons, and enemies can now have Stasis and Strand Shields, what the hell are stasis and strand doing in the top slot?? Two reasons: 1) If they go in slot 2 then it's gonna be a hella crowded slot. 2) It feels like slot 1 is Darkness and slot 2 is Light, at this stage. 2b) Kinetic is clearly the third darkness subclass duh. But realistically it's the first point, things get messy otherwise. Edit: Also is it just me or is SURGIN just Acute Burn without the incoming damage penalty? Just keep the incoming damage penalty and there's a more balanced system lol. They just added extra Kinetic damage to Acute Burns and removed the penalty. Weird. Edit 2: Oh I guess that's what Threats are now. They just split Acute Burns into two separate modifiers. Alright then. I'll refrain from tantrums until we find out what "extra health and harder to stagger" mean numerically. If they added an extra 5% health, eh whatever. If it's 25% then that's a lil silly. syntaxfunction fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Feb 22, 2023 |
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Feb 22, 2023 02:06
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Double post because the more I read into the post the more I feel this is a far lesser issue than thought. To account for Surges and Overcharges they have increased enemy health and ability to be staggered. How much, we don't know. Could be 5%, could be 100%, no idea. With the way Surges have been specified to work they increase the elemental damage of the SURGIN element. So if we're rolling Strand (all season) and Void then we're getting +25% damage to abilities of that element as well as weapons of that element. It seems a little restrictive, until you add in Overcharged weapons. These explicitly do NOT stack with SURGIN. Overcharged weapons also give +25% damage. Kinetics receive the boost if your subclass is a SURGIN one. But that doesn't mean that you need to be SURGIN to get the Kinetic boost. This is because they have specified Overcharged weapons come from Artifact Champ weapons and activity selection. Given we get roughly 6 artifact weapon archetypes each season (and I expect that to continue) then at least six archetypes are going to receive +25% damage increases, regardless of Kinetic or Energy and regardless of the element type. And again, this doesn't stack when you're SURGIN, so you're getting the boost from being a champ weapon OR from SUGARIN. And then there's activity weapons. It could be one archetype, or two (as Dares has sometimes), so we're probably getting at least one additional archetype that gets a big boost. Between all these as far as weapons go it will probably be difficult to not get a 25% buff to all weapon damage. The real pain is whether you get the boost to your ability damage based on whether your subclass is SARGIN or not. And until we know how much health they're giving the enemies we don't know if it's even an issue.
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Feb 22, 2023 02:30
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:There are no stasis Shields in the game, in fact There are stasis and strand shields in the b-roll released with the Vidoc for various gaming news outlets. You can see them in the gamespot preview video, which just repeat-plays clips of that b-roll. sadly, they don't put the b-roll on dropbox anymore so we can't just download it as easily as we could in the previous expansions. EDIT:  I should also note, there were stasis shields in the Beyond Light b-roll too. They just didn't ship when the game came out. I believe at launch time for WQ there was a Scorn dude in a public event that had a Stasis shield, and Bungie hotfixed it to Arc. RocketRaygun fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Feb 22, 2023 |
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Feb 22, 2023 02:45
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