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id was one of the many companies that took in a lot of Prime-era refugees from Retro, and Doom 2016 gets more and more Prime-ish as it goes. Doom 2016 (not Eternal) is the closest modern reference point for what I want Prime 4's gunplay to be like - I don't want the series to come back and still be the same plinky Zelda-with-nerf-guns barely-a-FPS thing, it needs to have real combat and the kinds of skill/dexterity-based challenge that are missing from the Prime games but more and more prevalent in the 2D games.
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Feb 22, 2023 06:10
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galagazombie posted:How is it that Retro perfected how to do a map for 3D spaces back in 2002 and absolutely no one has done anything similar. Prime/2/3 has the most easy to use, sensible and readable map in 3D game history and no one has ever even tried to rip it off. It’s not like “rotating 3D map” is a concept specific enough for Retro to copyright. What’s the deal? I was wondering the same drat thing the other day, it's a good question.
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Feb 22, 2023 06:12
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:id was one of the many companies that took in a lot of Prime-era refugees from Retro, and Doom 2016 gets more and more Prime-ish as it goes. I was pretty happy with the pace/shooting challenge of the Prime games despite coming from PC FPS like Doom and Quake, and sort of worry that it might take something away to amp up the action too much, but after Dread kind of pushed the combat skill part of 2D Games, I think I kind of like this idea. Also, I think Doom 2016 does show that you can build a game for faster action while still having levels structured for exploration.
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Feb 22, 2023 06:27
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Doom 16 as a Metroid game is some loving chefs-kiss poo poo
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Feb 22, 2023 06:42
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Oh God dammit I just realized the ending to doom eternal is "no John you are the demons"
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Feb 22, 2023 06:45
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galagazombie posted:How is it that Retro perfected how to do a map for 3D spaces back in 2002 and absolutely no one has done anything similar. Prime/2/3 has the most easy to use, sensible and readable map in 3D game history and no one has ever even tried to rip it off. It’s not like “rotating 3D map” is a concept specific enough for Retro to copyright. What’s the deal? It's not really the only example, the maps in Metroid Prime are pretty much exactly like the maps from the Descent series that came before it, starting back in 1995. And more recently off the top of my head Zelda BotW had something similar for the dungeons.
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Feb 22, 2023 08:29
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Returnal also has a very Prime-y approach to its map. The Primes' map system is very readable, but I think that partly stems from these games being mostly a series of small rooms that have an underlying geometry that's both simple and rarely overlapping, making them very easy to represent in abstracted 3D.
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Feb 22, 2023 08:51
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Item Getter posted:It's not really the only example, the maps in Metroid Prime are pretty much exactly like the maps from the Descent series that came before it, starting back in 1995. And more recently off the top of my head Zelda BotW had something similar for the dungeons. The Armored Core series had the same thing for most of its run, starting in '97. Controls weren't the best, but you had good, detailed 3D maps that you could freely control, and they even marked your targets if you had the right parts in your mech. It only abandoned the setup for 4 onward. Kind of made sense for most of 4 and For Answer, since they had fast movement and mostly open fields, but a couple of levels were a pain without the old maps, and 5 went further by also taking away radar. Made some levels more obnoxious than they had to be, especially with 5 returning to huge maps.
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Feb 22, 2023 08:51
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Metroid Prime being the source of Phazon who flew on a meteor from the planet Phazon to take over other worlds kinda sorta makes sense in the context of 2 and 3, but yeah the original lore is a mess. The only explanation for it being similar to a Metroid or even summoning Metroids at the end is that those were the strongest things on Tallon IV except they weren’t there yet when the meteor landed so 
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Feb 22, 2023 14:16
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MechaX posted:It seems like that they tried to retcon the Space Pirates reaching MP first despite the crater only having one entrance (honestly you could probably explain this away by saying the Pirates brute-forced their way to it with unsafe tunnels that Samus doesn't have the time to find or reliably navigate) Nah, in both versions of the lore the pirates aren’t supposed to have made it into the crater at all, which is why they’re looking for the artifacts. A lot of the inconsistencies can probably be chalked up to the fact that Prime 1 had a really rough development process and Retro had to crunch hard in order to get it done galagazombie posted:How is it that Retro perfected how to do a map for 3D spaces back in 2002 and absolutely no one has done anything similar. Prime/2/3 has the most easy to use, sensible and readable map in 3D game history and no one has ever even tried to rip it off. It’s not like “rotating 3D map” is a concept specific enough for Retro to copyright. What’s the deal? I’ve definitely seen other games do the same thing but also it’s not a totally perfect solution. 1) The map rotating around the player instead of being fixed to a compass direction can make things disorienting for some people, as is the case with 2D maps that don't align to a compass direction 2) Orbiting the map vertically in certain ways can cause an optical illusion where the eye can’t differentiate the front face of an object from the back face of an object, making it feel like the camera’s movement has inverted and confusing the player. 3) On big maps, especially tall ones, distant rooms can get in the way of where you’re trying to look, and can look closer than they actually are. You can see this in Prime 2 with Torvus Bog.
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Feb 22, 2023 14:54
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Augus posted:2) Orbiting the map vertically in certain ways can cause an optical illusion where the eye can’t differentiate the front face of an object from the back face of an object, making it feel like the camera’s movement has inverted and confusing the player. Ok this one gets me a lot. I keep thinking something is wrong with the controls and why tf aren’t they working right, then it suddenly works right again (and apparently was the entire time, I’ve just got dumb eyes).
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Feb 22, 2023 16:28
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Icon Of Sin posted:Ok this one gets me a lot. I keep thinking something is wrong with the controls and why tf aren’t they working right, then it suddenly works right again (and apparently was the entire time, I’ve just got dumb eyes). That happens to me also. If I close my eyes for a couple seconds, it stops. The Phazon Mines map having multiple floors makes it really difficult to look at in the 3-D model.
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Feb 22, 2023 20:43
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Icon Of Sin posted:Clearly the train wreck of a story being constantly edited is a metaphor for Samus’ DNA by the end of Dread "I've got something like twelve parents by now and all of them are better Dads than Raven Beak."
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Feb 22, 2023 20:46
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galagazombie posted:How is it that Retro perfected how to do a map for 3D spaces back in 2002 and absolutely no one has done anything similar. Prime/2/3 has the most easy to use, sensible and readable map in 3D game history and no one has ever even tried to rip it off. It’s not like “rotating 3D map” is a concept specific enough for Retro to copyright. What’s the deal? Item Getter posted:It's not really the only example, the maps in Metroid Prime are pretty much exactly like the maps from the Descent series that came before it, starting back in 1995. And more recently off the top of my head Zelda BotW had something similar for the dungeons.
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Feb 22, 2023 20:54
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Icon Of Sin posted:Lol the Metroid wiki says it was actually a Metroid, and cites the Metroid Prime art booklet from 2009, but the chozo lore says something along the lines of “the worm came with the asteroid that spelled our demise”. I kinda thought both were true, like "The Worm" is a malevolent essence of Phazon or a Phazon parasite within the meteor, and it infused itself into a big strong Metroid, and the final result is what we meet as Metroid Prime. Then it becomes Dark Samus, right? Dark Samus emerges from the corpse of Metroid Prime after it drank the Phazon Suit off Samus, so it could be "the worm", right
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Feb 22, 2023 21:40
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The thematically 'best' 3D map is the one in Control because its uselessness fits for a building that doesn't respect physical laws. Hyped to pick up my physical copy of Switch Prime tonight.
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Feb 22, 2023 21:46
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Tender Bender posted:I kinda thought both were true, like "The Worm" is a malevolent essence of Phazon or a Phazon parasite within the meteor, and it infused itself into a big strong Metroid, and the final result is what we meet as Metroid Prime. Yes, Dark Samus is Metroid Prime fused with Samus’s Phazon Suit, which it pulls from her in the ending. Spoilers for a 20-year-old game!! The idea that it could absorb Samus’ suit is based on the original lore where the Space Pirates got it to fuse with a bunch of beam weapons but then had to seal it back in the crater when it got too powerful. That’s also why its exoskeleton kinda looks like a beam pirate! I suppose it isn’t too farfetched to think that it absorbed some Chozo technology when it impacted the planet, that just wasn’t addressed in the new lore.
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Feb 22, 2023 21:57
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Shiroc posted:The thematically 'best' 3D map is the one in Control because its uselessness fits for a building that doesn't respect physical laws. i like Alien Isolation because the map kind of sucking weirdly makes the game more tense
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Feb 22, 2023 21:58
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Sockser posted:Doom 16 as a Metroid game is some loving chefs-kiss poo poo From: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjlU_krhS74
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Feb 22, 2023 21:59
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Is there any resource that summarizes the lore changes between Prime releases? Like I don't really care about regional modifications, but like Prime 3 addresses a lot of the origins of the impact crater meteor in Prime 1, but in my head now it was "always" a leviathan that impacted Tallon IV even though I don't think they used that terminology until Prime 3.
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Feb 22, 2023 22:09
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I think the trilogy version is the one that ended up remastered, so this is possibly what you’re looking for. https://www.metroidwiki.org/wiki/Chozo_Lore
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Feb 22, 2023 22:25
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Almost done replaying Super Metroid for the first time in like 10 years. This game is much breezier than I remembered, and/or I must have some muscle memory left over from then. I'm playing it with a map of secrets, so that may be part of it. I feel like the initial dive down to Norfair then back to the Wrecked Ship is amazing, 10/10, but it turns into much more of a slog afterwards. Maridia wasn't that bad but again I'm using a map, I can't imagine what trying to play this blind would be like. Going back to Brinstar for item collection was sort of a slog too. I have killed Draygon and got the Plasma beam, I may just go kill Ridley and end the game now and not bother with any more item collection Also starting to play SOTN at the same time, having never played any Castlevania game before. I'm only a little bit in, but this is already a fascinating contrast with SM. I like the goofy rear end anime gothic tone, this is much less actually scary than SM. Combat feels better than SM, graphics are better, and RPG menus for equipment and items is flawed but better than pressing the select button constantly. It's interesting how much more influential SM seems to have been than SOTN on modern game design though
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Feb 22, 2023 23:09
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Super Metroid came out 3 years before SotN, it's clear that the latter was influenced by the former. However, I'd argue that SotN was equally as influential, with the much snappier movement defining expectations of how much action such a title should have, and a much more expanded item/build system being the basis for a lot of other games in the combined genre.
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Feb 22, 2023 23:15
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Xenomrph posted:Oh yeah I have an OLED so I guess that’s out haha. Nah I don't think the 3DS supports game maker games like that, it's built for something that has better specs, there's a Vita port if you have a Vita, or Steam deck. Or if you have a powerful android phone or tablet there's builds for those. AM2R can run on most semi-cracked/open platforms. Windows, Linux, Android, Vita, Switch (hacked) are the main platforms. There's probably a macOS port as well, but I don't know about it.
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Feb 22, 2023 23:45
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icantfindaname posted:Almost done replaying Super Metroid for the first time in like 10 years. This game is much breezier than I remembered, and/or I must have some muscle memory left over from then. I'm playing it with a map of secrets, so that may be part of it. I feel like the initial dive down to Norfair then back to the Wrecked Ship is amazing, 10/10, but it turns into much more of a slog afterwards. Maridia wasn't that bad but again I'm using a map, I can't imagine what trying to play this blind would be like. Going back to Brinstar for item collection was sort of a slog too. I have killed Draygon and got the Plasma beam, I may just go kill Ridley and end the game now and not bother with any more item collection I kind of appreciate that the game throws in a big mazelike area to mix things up, and I like having it in a very cavernous mellow environment. Kind of sucks that there's gently caress all to collect other than ammo upgrades and basically everything left is gated by Draygon, so your reward for exploring is... Spring Ball? Yeah, lame. The grey door on plasma beam is a bullshit move.
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Feb 23, 2023 00:02
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MatchaZed posted:Nah I don't think the 3DS supports game maker games like that, it's built for something that has better specs, there's a Vita port if you have a Vita, or Steam deck. Or if you have a powerful android phone or tablet there's builds for those. AM2R can run on most semi-cracked/open platforms. Windows, Linux, Android, Vita, Switch (hacked) are the main platforms. There's probably a macOS port as well, but I don't know about it. Oh hey I actually have a Vita coming in the mail RIGHT NOW. 
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Feb 23, 2023 01:03
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The 3D maps in Metroid Prime are pretty good on a room-to-room level but rapidly fall apart in larger areas like Phazon Mines or when attempting to represent the relationships between zones. I will say that Breath of the Wild uses a very Prime-esque map that replaces the 2d minimap when you're inside Hyrule Castle.
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Feb 23, 2023 01:30
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Blackbelt Bobman posted:Yes, Dark Samus is Metroid Prime fused with Samus’s Phazon Suit, which it pulls from her in the ending. Spoilers for a 20-year-old game!! Ahh yeah that makes sense. drat I love Prime DoctorWhat posted:The 3D maps in Metroid Prime are pretty good on a room-to-room level but rapidly fall apart in larger areas like Phazon Mines or when attempting to represent the relationships between zones. I think the map works really well in large areas, wrapping up the Artifact Hunt and I can pretty easily chart a course across the sprawl of Chozo Ruins or Phendrana. The problem with Phazon Mines' map is the problem with the zone in general, the rooms are all pretty samey and non-descript in terms of their size/shape. The other areas have big memorable landmarks that you can recognize in the 3D map.
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Feb 23, 2023 05:52
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Xenomrph posted:Oh hey I actually have a Vita coming in the mail RIGHT NOW. The vita is epic.
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Feb 23, 2023 05:56
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Feels Villeneuve posted:The vita is epic. Is there a dedicated Vita thread I should know about for all my hacking and home brewing needs?
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Feb 23, 2023 06:27
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Just got all the artifacts, checking my log book, noticed two ???'s pretty early in the list. I didn't realize the war wasps from the Hive Mecha and Incinerator Drone were both unique scans. I'd have 100% completion otherwise. Dammit lol.
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Feb 23, 2023 14:53
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Tender Bender posted:Just got all the artifacts, checking my log book, noticed two ???'s pretty early in the list. I didn't realize the war wasps from the Hive Mecha and Incinerator Drone were both unique scans. I'd have 100% completion otherwise. Dammit lol. Thats me with the tentacle that Flaaghra creates
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Feb 23, 2023 15:02
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DeafNote posted:Thats me with the tentacle that Flaaghra creates Metroid Prime 2 is full of multi-stage bosses that require multiple scans and can summon enemies who also have to be scanned lol they really made Prime 2 unnecessarily complicated.
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Feb 23, 2023 15:26
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Blackbelt Bobman posted:Metroid Prime 2 is full of multi-stage bosses that require multiple scans and can summon enemies who also have to be scanned lol they really made Prime 2 unnecessarily complicated. The thing is that you get burned by it once and never forget and are always on the lookout. At least until you haven't played the game in a dozen+ years and it fades from your memory, lol
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Feb 23, 2023 15:38
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Shout-outs to the Quadraxis scan that's "his head again, but stunned this time"
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Feb 23, 2023 17:05
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Xenomrph posted:Is there a dedicated Vita thread I should know about for all my hacking and home brewing needs? Not a dedicated thread, but we have a general console/handheld homebrew/hacking thread here.
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Feb 23, 2023 17:24
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Simply Simon posted:Shout-outs to the Quadraxis scan that's "his head again, but stunned this time" I still have my players guides for both MP and MP2, I gotta look that poo poo up because lol MP2 was relentless. I definitely only got 100% in MP Remastered because I had the guide book lol
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Feb 23, 2023 17:29
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That there are missable regular enemies in all the Prime games remain the most consistent game decision in them.
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Feb 23, 2023 18:09
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Missable logs and things you'll also miss for having missed those logs is one of those recurring mechanics that's, like there are two kinds of gamer; the ones that resolutely do not care about filling out the log book and are capable of pushing past the compulsion to make number go up and meter get filled, and the ones that will play through the whole game, enjoy themselves, then realise they've missed something, and then feel very bad about the game they just enjoyed playing through. Or sometimes they're the ones that do manage to tag everything but are tense the whole time right up until that 100% notif pops, and it's like you can breathe again. And it's just, why in the ever loving gently caress would you continue to design games this way? What you have created is a misery generator. There is nobody who is grateful for the log book working this way. A game mechanic that players are expected to be able to ignore is a mechanic that should not be in the game.
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Feb 23, 2023 19:01
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Would have been fixed by a boss rush mode.
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Feb 23, 2023 19:14
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