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(Thread IKs: Josherino)
 
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Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


DoubleDonut posted:

Do you think it's bad if I just genuinely don't actually like talking to other people anymore

My "theory" of extroversion/introversion is that everyone has an "ideal amount of socializing per unit of time" rate (on the scale of like, idk a couple weeks or a month), and if you go too high or too low you start getting exhausted and craving either social contact or solitude. Some people want one balance, some want the other, and even people who are really extroverted eventually do go "gently caress I am so tired of others I need some peace and quiet" for example.

e: So I mean from that post alone I don't think its bad-bad, there's a lot of context that could move it either way.

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Uganda Loves Me
May 24, 2002


Pretty bummed that our parrot died. She was technically my dad's. She started pulling all of her feathers out over a year ago, and nothing was done. I did my best to socialize with her and make sure all of her needs were taken care of, but I would have liked to see her taken to someone who knew what to do. It's been very cold recently (for our area), and I think she died from the cold :( Apparently, she kept falling off her perch the day she died. I really wish someone had told me. I'm working my way through the guilt and anger. I had suggested a heater to my dad quite a while ago, and he dismissed it without considering it.

I vented to my brother about it, who said "If you feel so strongly, I wish you would have done something about it." gently caress. I know I could have tried to make that poo poo happen on my own, but I would have caught hell for it. I know she needed more than just a heater pointed at her, anyway. It's triggering to hear people complain about the cold, and incredibly upsetting when my dad does it. I hate having my input dismissed, then feeling responsible for the result.

I'm going with my dad to bury her up in the mountains around here. I don't want to guilt trip anyone, and I don't plan on saying anything when he expresses that he has no idea how this happened. Even when he goes on about "race war" and shits all over LGBT people. I'm doing my best to find acceptance. I talked to someone about it, and he said there is no "would have" universe. I think that was a great way to put it. No amount of blame will change the fact that she is gone. I think I've worked my way through most of the guilt and anger.

RIP Sasha. Here's a video I took shortly after she started pulling her feathers. You can see where she started plucking on her right leg. I brought her little traveling cage into my room so she could hang out with me. She's making her happy dinosaur noises. Toby (our dog) disapproved. I can tell he misses her though. I wish I had taken a video of me wheeling her around in the cage. She flares all of her feathers, and loudly cheers. She loved loud noises and movement. I always let her watch when I broke down cardboard boxes. She loved that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRWa6S9ZVQk

Thanks everyone for supporting each other and keeping this thread a safe space. It's been a big help to read it.

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006
That sucks UGL, sorry to hear that. If I had anyone say what your brother said to me I would've ripped them a new rear end in a top hat.

Uganda Loves Me
May 24, 2002


Thank you. Yeah, I need to deal with that. We get along when it comes to doing fun poo poo online, but he can be so loving patronizing. I was tempted to tell him that kind of thing is why I won't visit him again.

ContinuityNewTimes
Dec 30, 2010

Я выдуман напрочь
I've got one more therapy session provided by a charity then I've got to find a private therapist for twice as much money, which is not as scary as having to work up the guts to actually say what's wrong to yet another stranger

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.
i think there's a massive difference between "not wanting or needing human socialization from first principles" on one hand, and "the cost of interacting with other human beings isn't something i can bear right now even though i would like to if i weren't exhausted / in an unbearable social context / unable to communicate effectively / etc."

the former is extremely rare; it's one of the criteria for schizoid personality types but IIRC there's significant medical controversy over whether it's an accurate description even in that context

the latter is commonplace and doesn't even necessarily have anything to do with neurotype, or with personality

mawarannahr
May 21, 2019

i saw a documentary on mt athos and i think I'd be down for monasticism. there's probably a Type and id probably be happier. modernity stole this from the vast majority of this minority

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

I think on one axis you've got just social exhaustion which comes faster for some than others, and at least for me there's a little bit of guilt in some cases here- but yeah everyone's different and it's fine if you need some time. My bigger problem personally is convincing myself that people don't want me around and I should just give up entirely, which is a big problem I'm having to work through

limp dick calvin
Sep 1, 2006

Strepitoso. Vedete? Una meraviglia.
anyone have experience with getting naltrexone as a shot? I tried it in pill form but I felt like it was too easy to cheat and not take it. I feel like I’m so close to having a major shift with my booze relationship and that would help.

America Inc.
Nov 22, 2013

I plan to live forever, of course, but barring that I'd settle for a couple thousand years. Even 500 would be pretty nice.

StashAugustine posted:

My bigger problem personally is convincing myself that people don't want me around and I should just give up entirely, which is a big problem I'm having to work through

I do worry sometimes that people have criticisms of me but aren't saying them. I've literally asked people straight up "is there anything about me you don't like?".

I'm not the kind of person that gets into arguments or fights, but at the same time I feel like I've accumulated some bad habits out of a lack of self-awareness because no one points them out besides my therapist. Some people just don't really care about you that much or will talk about you behind your back instead.

That being said, I keep trying to make friends anyway. If people can't tell you what they're really thinking that's on them.

America Inc.
Nov 22, 2013

I plan to live forever, of course, but barring that I'd settle for a couple thousand years. Even 500 would be pretty nice.
Something I found annoying today: I was doing a run, and at the end of the run I wanted to sit down. There was a bench with a lady sitting at one end. I was thinking at first that I didn't want to bother her, but I also just wanted to sit down. I sit on the bench on the other side, and the lady immediately gets up like I was sweating tear gas.

Was I a dick for sitting down? It's so petty but it annoys me. I also get to thinking is it because I'm black?

Ice Phisherman
Apr 12, 2007

Swimming upstream
into the sunset



America Inc. posted:

Something I found annoying today: I was doing a run, and at the end of the run I wanted to sit down. There was a bench with a lady sitting at one end. I was thinking at first that I didn't want to bother her, but I also just wanted to sit down. I sit on the bench on the other side, and the lady immediately gets up like I was sweating tear gas.

Was I a dick for sitting down? It's so petty but it annoys me. I also get to thinking is it because I'm black?

You are not a dick for sitting down. Parks are public places and benches are public seating. If you want to sit, tired or not, you should be able to even if it's right next to someone. I mean, not on someone's picnic blanket or whatever, but sitting next to someone on a park bench is totally reasonable and normal. Everyone has a right to use public spaces. You, her, everyone.

Also while she might have left due to racism, maybe entertain the idea that it also wasn't. Maybe you were just super sweaty and she didn't accidentally want to get sweated on. Maybe you started her because she wasn't paying attention and suddenly there you are. Maybe she just wanted to be alone. There are tons of valid reasons that aren't racism. I mean it could've been, but it also might not have been.

No one can tell you what happened except her, but whatever, you'll probably never see her again.

Ice Phisherman has issued a correction as of 08:34 on Feb 21, 2023

Uganda Loves Me
May 24, 2002


I got nearly 11 hours straight of sleep last night. It's the first good sleep I've had in a very long time. Usually I'm glad to get 5. We buried our bird in a meadow under a huge oak tree. I was dreading the trip, because it was with my dad. He was kind and respectful, though. I think the combination of putting that behind me, and getting sunlight and exercise really helped. I can't remember the last time I felt so relaxed without putting a chemical in my body.

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

America Inc. posted:

I do worry sometimes that people have criticisms of me but aren't saying them. I've literally asked people straight up "is there anything about me you don't like?".

I'm not the kind of person that gets into arguments or fights, but at the same time I feel like I've accumulated some bad habits out of a lack of self-awareness because no one points them out besides my therapist. Some people just don't really care about you that much or will talk about you behind your back instead.

That being said, I keep trying to make friends anyway. If people can't tell you what they're really thinking that's on them.

Yeah that's all similar to stuff I've been working through with my therapist (so if nothing else you're not alone with it.) I actually think that being the kind of person who avoids arguments (which generally isn't a bad thing) makes it worse since you're always wondering if people are doing the same thing to you. I think theres also an element that if youre feeling uncomfortable or rejected tou want someone to blame and if you're not an aggressive person the most obvious culprit is yourself. So yeah I guess just know this isn't just you, it seems like a common pattern among a certain combination of personality type and sadbrains. One thing my therapist also brought up last session that I've been trying to think about is that maybe I should try speaking my mind more and think less about what people would think negatively and more about maybe someone there is going through something similar and needs to hear it from someone else.

Witeldram
Feb 22, 2022

Gave my two weeks' notice to my operations manager today. She seemed understanding and supportive of my decision, but I'm deathly anxious of telling my other two supervisors about it, especially given that they're kinda the reason why the job got toxic for my mental health.

Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010


I had my first counselling session yesterday and I have never been able to open up like that before. It's left me so raw and just gaping for two days now.

Witeldram
Feb 22, 2022

Flipswitch posted:

I had my first counselling session yesterday and I have never been able to open up like that before. It's left me so raw and just gaping for two days now.

Congrats on your first therapy session!

The first one is always the hardest imo, there's a lot to unload and reveal to someone you had never met before, and it can be an overwhelming feeling. It gets better as you get to know your therapist more.

Ice Phisherman
Apr 12, 2007

Swimming upstream
into the sunset



Flipswitch posted:

I had my first counselling session yesterday and I have never been able to open up like that before. It's left me so raw and just gaping for two days now.

I had a similar experience. Not the first time because that was a meet and greet, but the sessions after that. For first three months of therapy I'd have stress headaches afterwards that usually lasted at least twelve hours and I'd be basically useless for the rest of the day. And those first few months were me constantly reliving trauma that'd I'd experienced.

I did a lot of self-care before therapy and especially afterwards. If you're able, I really suggest planning out some sort of self-care activity. For me it was a mix of eating my feelings, driving around and writing.

After months of constantly feeling like poo poo, I transitioned to permanently feeling better and feeling more functional. I still have anxiety, but anxiety attacks are much more rare than they used to be and I feel like I'm finally turning my life around.

The beginning part where you deal with feelings and potentially trauma really sucks, but if you're open and do the work it really makes a big difference.

AceOfFlames
Oct 9, 2012

My parents finally came to visit for the first time since the pandemic and I couldn't clean up enough meaning they got to witness my borderline hoarder hovel. They are going to spend the rest of the week long visit cleaning and they fear they won't have time to finish. I feel so loving ashamed.

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.

Uganda Loves Me posted:

I got nearly 11 hours straight of sleep last night. It's the first good sleep I've had in a very long time. Usually I'm glad to get 5. We buried our bird in a meadow under a huge oak tree. I was dreading the trip, because it was with my dad. He was kind and respectful, though. I think the combination of putting that behind me, and getting sunlight and exercise really helped. I can't remember the last time I felt so relaxed without putting a chemical in my body.

I'm glad you were able to find peace at the end of this awful thing ULM, you helped give the critter the best life you could and that's all we can do.

Ace: I've felt similar situations before, it sucks, but sometimes everyone needs help with "basic" things "you should just do on your own". A little bit of trash left over get joined by another, and another, and then its too overwhelming and depressing to look it at. Don't feel ashamed for needing and receiving help, everyone needs a support network.

--------
So online was depressing me, I decided "Hey, I'll go outside and touch grass"

Literally, in the front lawn, along the road, are a bunch of state, fed, and local cops busting a group of migrants. There were 8-12 feral pigs in the yard. A chopper thunders overhead. :cripes:

I also realized at this point when I go outside and look at strange lights in the sky, it actually is feds in helicopters looking for aliens. :shepface:

Considering the primary point of my anxiety and depression is having no agency and being constantly hosed with by authority figures, dealing with a retired cop dad and mom from a family of cops and going outside to see more cops flexing on people has NOT been helping my brain. I feel overwhelmingly crushed. Its hard to be a socialist beyond mutual aid and charity work (not that that's wrong, just insufficient in of itself) when I don't think this much police authority can be successfully defied.

Trauts
May 1, 2010
Learning to keep a clean living space is one of the easier and more mentally beneficial habits to acquire. It also keeps other people from looking at you like "how tf do you live like this". Throw poo poo away once you're done with it, clean up messes when you see them, vacuum occasionally...it's not that hard. I used to be terrible about it but that was honestly mostly just a cop out on my part, I definitely could have cleaned and would have been happier for it. Unless you're physically incapable of moving, getting up and cleaning your living space will make you *way* less miserable than just sitting on it. Or worse, have someone else see it and then having to deal with the mess on someone else's terms, with them helping and seeing all the mess.

Just something to consider.

AceOfFlames
Oct 9, 2012

Well that last part is out of the bag but them cleaning everything is helping and it should be easy for me to maintain it.

Uganda Loves Me
May 24, 2002


Every now and then I think of "kipple" from Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep.

quote:

“Kipple is useless objects, like junk mail or match folders after you use the last match or gum wrappers or yesterday's homeopape. When nobody's around, kipple reproduces itself. For instance, if you go to bed leaving any kipple around your apartment, when you wake up the next morning there's twice as much of it. It always gets more and more."

...

"No one can win against kipple," he said, "except temporarily and maybe in one spot, like in my apartment I've sort of created a stasis between the pressure of kipple and nonkipple, for the time being. But eventually I'll die or go away, and then the kipple will again take over. It's a universal principle operating throughout the universe; the entire universe is moving toward a final state of total, absolute kippleization.”

Keep in mind that's what you're up against, so don't be too hard on yourself.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


So I just posted this in the NYC LAN thread (I work for city government) but I figure I may as well post it here since its driving me insane.


---
I'll be honest, my union (OSA) has been completely disappointing. I've been having repeated disputes with management over workplace safety (i.e. they don't believe in it, I do) and over procedures not being followed by management in these disputes, and OSA's consistent stance is relations between workers and management is not the union's business. They have recommended I continue to talk one on one with management (which is a farce, it is one on many with me being the one), resign, or at most take it up with the state board of human rights. They consider anything other than contract negotiations just outside their perogative, including the enforcement of that contract. It's been pretty demoralizing.
---

And just, beyond the very personal level where I'm effectively being pushed out of a job I expected to hold for another 30 years, its just incredibly demoralizing from a left wing perspective. My union is one of those unions that people use as a model and I've in the past talked about it in organizing spaces as a real true benefit that other people can gain if they, too, have the boldness and daring to organize in their workspaces. And as soon as I have something I want from that union, the union tells me to take a fuckin hike. I feel not only like I got pretty screwed, I also feel hopeless about trying to do anything about workplaces for anybody else and I feel guilty about having functionally done free PR for an organization that is less than advertised.

I understand there's a difference between 2 party union and 3 party union models and I'm clearly suffering the consequences of 3 party union structure, but at the same time it seems to be the dominant model and I don't even begin to understand how I'd counteract this. I know the words to say about, the catechism of "just build solidarity" and "persuade people to your politics" and "agitate for a better world," but I do not know a single IRL person who gives a poo poo about any of that. I've spent a lot of time around people who say those words but even the ones I consider close friends are pretty open about considering that all to be simply words that describe who they like to affiliate with, words that have no associated actions. And its not like I don't know plenty of people! I'm a highly extroverted person in a big city who, back when I had more faith in things, was in multiple socialist orgs. Intersectional action was always intellectual, people would do solidarity with oppressions they were not under as horse trading to get solidarity back to the oppressions they were under. Collective action was always a mirage created in the mind out of a bunch of individual actions.

I don't know, I'm not hosed right now even though I'm probably going to leave a steady, stable career for some uncertainty, its just frustrating that for all that theory and all those hundreds of hours of marches and actions and so on, all of it amounted was as meaningful as watching sports and when I could benefit from collective action, even from a strong, old organization built for collective action, the best thing I can do is just do it myself.

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006
lol resolving disputes between workers and management is literally the union's only business, sorry your union sucks, sounds like libs infected it

AceOfFlames
Oct 9, 2012

I'm starting to think that maybe my insistence on my lack of beliefs is simply because I am tired of having my opinions consistently dismissed. Every time I give an opinion to my family, they try to contradict it or dig up everything I say in the past to discredit it. I just want a normal conversation where I can say things and the people around me make the polite assumption that unless I am saying something literally insane it's the truth, not something like

"you know, that far right dude has some good points"
Me: "leaving the moral questions aside, what makes you think he should be in charge"
"He won't, people don't put those people in charge"
Me: "But they did, across the world"
"but they are always beaten back, besides, what's the problem?"
Me: "I just think all emotion should be removed from politics. It should be as boarding as dirt. There should be no exalted rhetoric"
"There's a teachers strike on tv, are you saying that's the sort of rhetoric you don't like?"
Me "You were just saying you disagreed with them"
"I'm just saying"
Me: "So why is it that when I yell it's always bad?"
"Because we are talking"

Imam so loving sick of this. I just want to have whatever opinions make it so no one ever tells me I am wrong ever again, especially my family. I guess this is an impossible task. How do I stop wanting this? How do I figure what to believe without involving emotions?

2DCAT
Jun 25, 2015

pissssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssss sssssssssssssssssss sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssss sssssssssssssss

Gravy Boat 2k
I'm sad and want to :justpost:

My longtime partner of 7 years broke things off with me. Moved across the country to be with her... Now I find myself sad because I'm losing my best friend, sad because I know no one in this city, and sad because the city I moved to is very expensive.

I signed a 13mo lease that starts in a month to see if I can manage in this city by myself. I'm taking a series of work trips across the country for the next 30 days because riding out the next 30 days of our lease prior to when we can terminate is painfully awkward and depressing.

Anyways... Yeah... Just sad...

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

2DCAT posted:

I'm sad and want to :justpost:

My longtime partner of 7 years broke things off with me. Moved across the country to be with her... Now I find myself sad because I'm losing my best friend, sad because I know no one in this city, and sad because the city I moved to is very expensive.

I signed a 13mo lease that starts in a month to see if I can manage in this city by myself. I'm taking a series of work trips across the country for the next 30 days because riding out the next 30 days of our lease prior to when we can terminate is painfully awkward and depressing.

Anyways... Yeah... Just sad...

Ugh that sucks, solidarity. Hope you can get it together and feel free to vent here if you're having trouble. Do you have any interests you could use to find people to hang out with?

2DCAT
Jun 25, 2015

pissssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssss sssssssssssssssssss sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssss sssssssssssssss

Gravy Boat 2k

StashAugustine posted:

Ugh that sucks, solidarity. Hope you can get it together and feel free to vent here if you're having trouble. Do you have any interests you could use to find people to hang out with?

Thants. That's the saddest part for me is that I literally know no one in this city. I teleworking too, so it's not as if I even have coworkers to be around.

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

2DCAT posted:

Thants. That's the saddest part for me is that I literally know no one in this city. I teleworking too, so it's not as if I even have coworkers to be around.

I'd look around for hobby groups- do you exercise or do outdoor stuff, do you play board or miniature games, maybe just look around for book clubs? I got lucky finding a scifi book club on meetup.com (a random suggestion from a therapist) and it's been kinda helpful, plus I've been playing some mini wargames with a few people at local stores

Jorge Bell
Aug 2, 2006
Why stay there if you have a fully remote job? You can move to somewhere cheaper and/or with friends and family if nothing's tying you to where you're at.

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

also kinda related to my last post, dealing with a lot of depression/anxiety/boredom recently has massively increased my miniature painting output

AceOfFlames
Oct 9, 2012

Holy gently caress, even though my brother and my mom don't get along the minute we are all in the same room they dump on me. Just countless of toddler level of condescending advice, stuff that doesn't apply to my life and if i try to argue other wise they say i am a "pessimist" and if i argue I am "too sensitive". They treat my like a freaking 6 year old, even telling stories of me doing dumb crap as a child. My mom will even start with "Ace hates when i say this, but...". I just want to be treated like a loving adult but because I am "family" this is how I am supposed to be treated.

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

AceOfFlames posted:

Holy gently caress, even though my brother and my mom don't get along the minute we are all in the same room they dump on me. Just countless of toddler level of condescending advice, stuff that doesn't apply to my life and if i try to argue other wise they say i am a "pessimist" and if i argue I am "too sensitive". They treat my like a freaking 6 year old, even telling stories of me doing dumb crap as a child. My mom will even start with "Ace hates when i say this, but...". I just want to be treated like a loving adult but because I am "family" this is how I am supposed to be treated.

I'm not really sure if I have good answers for you but I hope venting here can help- it sucks to feel like you're alone and I hope you know from people here that you're not the only one who feels the way you do.

Personally I've been dealing with a host of minor health problems- my sinuses have been swollen for like a week now, still dealing with a lot of digestion/gas/fatigue issues and it's frustrating to deal with, especially since I don't really know how to react to it or who I can talk to about it

America Inc.
Nov 22, 2013

I plan to live forever, of course, but barring that I'd settle for a couple thousand years. Even 500 would be pretty nice.

2DCAT posted:

Thants. That's the saddest part for me is that I literally know no one in this city. I teleworking too, so it's not as if I even have coworkers to be around.

These tips might help:
1. start exploring the city by yourself if you can't bring along a friend. Build up a set of spots you like to go to, coffee joints, parks, museums etc. Then when you meet new people, suggest going to those places with them.
2. When you get someone's contact, prefer their social. If you have to get a phone #, suggest that they take a picture of you so you're not just a name and a number. Then ask if you can take a picture of them.
3. Avoid texting at all costs. Either call them or make a voice recording. Text loses a lot of subtlety and people may get the wrong impression. If you're texting too much and for too long, people will subconsciously forget you're even human and stop caring. If you really have to text, use some emojis.
4. Be initiating conversation and hangouts. Don't wait for someone to bring you along and don't be the quiet dude or the one people are babysitting. But if someone invites you to stuff, of course go along of you want to.
5. When going to new social settings, prefer bringing a friend. Especially if you're a dude, going by yourself can appear creepy. If you have friends already, people will assume you have a good reputation.
6. Don't talk poo poo about other people. Don't get involved in drama. Be the one defusing. Listen and stay calm. If someone insults you let it slide off. Be magnanimous.
7. Let people talk about themselves and demonstrate vulnerability so they will as well.
8. If you're going to a meetup and you're new, show up early before people start forming their cliques. Talk to everyone.
9. Obviously go to poo poo you're actually interested in.
10. for same gender friends (assuming you're with mostly straight people, I don't know about queer dynamics), don't be afraid to pat them on the back or hug. nah that's dumb, just hug everyone.
11. say people's names often so you remember and because people like the sound of their own name.
12. if you have social anxiety, don't try to control it. Embrace it even.

It's all about bringing value to relationships, being respectful and thoughtful, strength and confidence, and demonstrating a good reputation.

Obviously everybody's different and different scenes have different social dynamics, but I think these apply broadly to human relationships.

America Inc. has issued a correction as of 07:09 on Feb 27, 2023

Segata Sanshiro
Sep 10, 2011

we can live for nothing
baby i don't care

lose me like the ocean
feel the motion

:coolfish:

2DCAT posted:

I'm sad and want to :justpost:

My longtime partner of 7 years broke things off with me. Moved across the country to be with her... Now I find myself sad because I'm losing my best friend, sad because I know no one in this city, and sad because the city I moved to is very expensive.

I signed a 13mo lease that starts in a month to see if I can manage in this city by myself. I'm taking a series of work trips across the country for the next 30 days because riding out the next 30 days of our lease prior to when we can terminate is painfully awkward and depressing.

Anyways... Yeah... Just sad...

I'm really sorry dude. I love your music, was she same girl who lended her vocals to some of your songs?

I don't have any advice bc I am still still homeless and broke in this awful place and people keep taking my poo poo if I don't keep it with me at all times. I've managed to hit a kind of equilibrium with the mental health stuff otherwise. I just wake up and get ready for my brain to let me have it. I've gotta figure something out this year bc god drat.

T Zero
Sep 26, 2005
When the enemy is in range, so are you
I can't sleep. I go to bed and stare at the ceiling for hours. I start to drift off at 6 am and then wake up for work at 7:30. I'm constantly drowsy. Caffeine doesn't do poo poo. And yet, I can't even fall asleep when I try to nap. I also don't have the mental energy to do anything else when I'm supposed to be sleeping. I'm struggling to focus enough to read. I daydream vividly and talk to myself constantly. This has been going on for years now.

Yes, I do stare at screens all day but I try to enforce sleep hygiene, which isn't helping. I don't have apnea. I don't drink. I exercise daily. My weight is fine. Doctor has moved me to my third sleep med (generic lunesta) which gives me maybe an extra hour or two of sleep. They want me to do a sleep study, but my insurance is notorious for fighting people over it. I might just have to save up for it.


AceOfFlames posted:

Holy gently caress, even though my brother and my mom don't get along the minute we are all in the same room they dump on me. Just countless of toddler level of condescending advice, stuff that doesn't apply to my life and if i try to argue other wise they say i am a "pessimist" and if i argue I am "too sensitive". They treat my like a freaking 6 year old, even telling stories of me doing dumb crap as a child. My mom will even start with "Ace hates when i say this, but...". I just want to be treated like a loving adult but because I am "family" this is how I am supposed to be treated.

You deserve to be treated with respect. That your family doesn't is their failure, not yours.

Cuttlefush
Jan 15, 2014

gotta have my purp

T Zero posted:

I can't sleep. I go to bed and stare at the ceiling for hours. I start to drift off at 6 am and then wake up for work at 7:30. I'm constantly drowsy. Caffeine doesn't do poo poo. And yet, I can't even fall asleep when I try to nap. I also don't have the mental energy to do anything else when I'm supposed to be sleeping. I'm struggling to focus enough to read. I daydream vividly and talk to myself constantly. This has been going on for years now.

Yes, I do stare at screens all day but I try to enforce sleep hygiene, which isn't helping. I don't have apnea. I don't drink. I exercise daily. My weight is fine. Doctor has moved me to my third sleep med (generic lunesta) which gives me maybe an extra hour or two of sleep. They want me to do a sleep study, but my insurance is notorious for fighting people over it. I might just have to save up for it.

have you ever been able to sleep/wake with no set alarm for a few weeks? was there any pattern, or did you end up with like a 24/12 wake/sleep cycle? have you been like this since you were a kid? was there some specific onset? have you ever been able to keep a normal sleep/wake cycle? are you eventually passing out and sleeping for 16 hours or something? how much sleep do you think you get a week?

it's incredibly hard to get a sleep study done, let alone get insurance to pay for it. it's even harder to get the kind that would actually diagnose circadian rhythm disorders. the big one is apnea. there are a few other sleep/breathing things I think too. sleep studies are also pretty dependent on how much of a poo poo the practitioners doing it will give. Also polysomnography for insomnia is.. I mean, it makes sense to try if initial measures aren't working but there's not a whole lot a one night study can reveal if you know you're fully awake into the morning.

I've had a hosed up sleep cycle from childhood which is totally fine if I can flex my life around it when I need to but it gets progresively hosed up if I need to adhere to a strict sleep/wake cycle. I've had times where I'd just be awake for most of a week because I was required to be awake pretty much opposite of where I was in my sleep cycle. No idea if that's the case for you, but if you did just get a job or or something where you work 12s or something that could exacerbate some sleep issues you were previously able to cope with.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circadian_rhythm_sleep_disorder?useskin=vector might be worth checking out. These are very rarely actually diagnoses, but they're probably a lot more common and varied than that would indicate. I think goon doctor might also have a sleep issue thread? At any rate, my condolences. Chronic insomnia is miserable. Having to work, come home, know you wont be able to sleep even though you're dead zombie tired, and repeat... it's no good :smith:

thehandtruck
Mar 5, 2006

the thing about the jews is,

T Zero posted:

I can't sleep. I go to bed and stare at the ceiling for hours. I start to drift off at 6 am and then wake up for work at 7:30. I'm constantly drowsy. Caffeine doesn't do poo poo. And yet, I can't even fall asleep when I try to nap. I also don't have the mental energy to do anything else when I'm supposed to be sleeping. I'm struggling to focus enough to read. I daydream vividly and talk to myself constantly. This has been going on for years now.

Yes, I do stare at screens all day but I try to enforce sleep hygiene, which isn't helping. I don't have apnea. I don't drink. I exercise daily. My weight is fine. Doctor has moved me to my third sleep med (generic lunesta) which gives me maybe an extra hour or two of sleep. They want me to do a sleep study, but my insurance is notorious for fighting people over it. I might just have to save up for it.

just by process of elimination it sounds emotional/psychological. im sure the insomnia is a factor but, are you facing down big life stuff? depression, loss, etc? sometimes people have a big ol' thorn in them and when they get it out the sleep comes easy

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T Zero
Sep 26, 2005
When the enemy is in range, so are you

Cuttlefush posted:

have you ever been able to sleep/wake with no set alarm for a few weeks? was there any pattern, or did you end up with like a 24/12 wake/sleep cycle? have you been like this since you were a kid? was there some specific onset? have you ever been able to keep a normal sleep/wake cycle? are you eventually passing out and sleeping for 16 hours or something? how much sleep do you think you get a week?


Poor sleep is something that I've struggled with since high school. I was always the kid dozing off in morning classes. I would go to bed at a reasonable time but take hours to fall asleep. But until recently, I did actually fall asleep for a solid block of several hours. I also used to be able to nap after work/school to catch up. Now, it just feels like my brain won't switch off. I also keep snacking in the middle of the night because I'm awake and bored. Since the pandemic, it's all gotten worse.

I have fitbit sleep tracker which isn't very good at tracking sleep because it registers periods where you're motionless as "sleep." But even that shows I'm getting ~5 hours of sleep on average on weeknights. Keep in mind these are not solid blocks of sleep, just totals:



Until a few weeks ago, I did consistently wake up without an alarm or ahead of my alarm. Now mornings are getting harder and I'm pushing my alarm back. I'm on a hybrid work from home/office schedule and on home days, I'm basically rolling out of bed and straight to my desk at 9 am.

On weekends, I try to sleep in as much as I can. The longest block of sleep I've had in the past 3 months is from 7 am to 11:45 am on a Saturday.

thehandtruck posted:

just by process of elimination it sounds emotional/psychological. im sure the insomnia is a factor but, are you facing down big life stuff? depression, loss, etc? sometimes people have a big ol' thorn in them and when they get it out the sleep comes easy

This is something I hadn't even considered. I ruined several very promising relationships in the past few years, including a breakup before the pandemic started, and I've been regretting my actions a lot. I didn't think I'd be literally losing sleep over it though since I've always had some trouble sleeping.


Thank you both btw

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