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Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007
I almost monkey paw wish since LotR is going to be standard, they just weasel Magic into the setting, Llanowar elves chilling in Lothlorien, Wormtongue Compleated, Wrenn and Treebeard etc.

JawnV6 posted:

I never did a purpose-built Alchemy deck so it's just constant surprises of "wait why's that cost 1 more. For _one_ more card????"

I get them sometimes in packs when they throw in the alchemy copy too, and I always have to flip back and forth several times to see what they flipped since adding the alchemy symbol to the name text changes the formatting and it's usually for cards I haven't played with to be familiar with. I guess alchemy packs make it relatively easy to collect playsets of them but limited to only alchemy formats which usually means you still need a good normal collection.

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Jabor
Jul 16, 2010

#1 Loser at SpaceChem
The thing is that spellbooks have a bunch of dogshit cards that nobody would ever really put in their deck, but that you still need to think about and play around after a spellbook card makes them relevant.

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?

Khanstant posted:

I almost monkey paw wish since LotR is going to be standard

it's not though, if i read correctly

flatluigi
Apr 23, 2008

here come the planes

Jabor posted:

The thing is that spellbooks have a bunch of dogshit cards that nobody would ever really put in their deck, but that you still need to think about and play around after a spellbook card makes them relevant.

if they're bad enough that they wouldn't go in decks they're too bad for people to actually pick them as their spellbook choice, and if they're worth picking someone's probably running it somewhere (or a roughly equivalent card)

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005

Try reading some manga!


Clever Betty
hell, it's about tahm

flatluigi posted:

it's not that I think they're equivalent myself but it's that I can't articulate a reason why spellbooks bug me that isn't also a problem with tutoring a card or even just drawing a card normally anymore and I'm not sure what even exactly changed about my perspective from what it used to be
I think it's poo poo like that one tome alchemy card that can just get you lightning bolt and counterspell and dark ritual and such every single turn and iirc costs 2 colorless to cast. I think if those sorts of cards were "draw 1 of 15 random cards" rather than "here's 3 of the 15, pick one" it wouldn't feel so bad since they could brick more frequently.

Jabor
Jul 16, 2010

#1 Loser at SpaceChem

flatluigi posted:

if they're bad enough that they wouldn't go in decks they're too bad for people to actually pick them as their spellbook choice, and if they're worth picking someone's probably running it somewhere (or a roughly equivalent card)

Nobody's putting Giant Growth in the sort of constructed deck that's playing a bunch of spellbook card generation.

flatluigi
Apr 23, 2008

here come the planes
I think that one card both of you brought up is def the worst designed spellbook card but also it's weirdly the one that I find easiest to remember b/c it's all random iconic one mana spells? I think it really shows that it's the first one they made though b/c whoof

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?
what's a good standard starter deck? save for the free packs, none of my collection is legal anymore :[

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



I think the spellbooks are annoying because they almost never brick. You can never draw a 15th land off them. Most of the time you can't get a 1-drop that is only good on turn 1. usually you're getting a creature that even if its a vanilla 2/2, at least has synergy with the thing that made it or other cards on the board.

At worst, they suck because they can generate cards you can't even put in your deck, like giving everyone Time Warp in brawl, or giving people mythics in artisan.

rickiep00h
Aug 16, 2010

BATDANCE


Giving you cards that aren't legal to build with in the format is stupid bullshit.

Charity Porno
Aug 2, 2021

by Hand Knit

flatluigi posted:

this used to bug me but someone jokingly told me once 'wait until you hear about the mechanic "draw a card" and how many options THAT can be' and I haven't really recovered

Well no, they are limited to cards they actually put in the deck and not new subsets of 15 cards some of which are good and some of which are dogshit and also they arent gonna get a land.

Edit: I wanna be real clear I loving hate Alchemy as a concept and I hate the effect it has on Arena's "eternal" formats but I have less problem with Alchemy cards that are clear on their effects than I do with the random monkey cheese bullshit of spellbooks

Charity Porno fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Feb 22, 2023

Silhouette
Nov 16, 2002

SONIC BOOM!!!

The worst spell book card is Key to the Archive, because it's a Firemind Vessel that also always seems to give my opponent whatever bullshit card they need to ruin whatever I'm doing

It's also colorless, so it can go in any deck

Pseudoscorpion
Jul 26, 2011


Silhouette posted:

The worst spell book card is Key to the Archive, because it's a Firemind Vessel that also always seems to give my opponent whatever bullshit card they need to ruin whatever I'm doing

It's also colorless, so it can go in any deck

I used to just scoop when they played it. Now I just sleeping hedron emote at them to express my disdain.

Auto-scooping privileges now go to Rusko, Clockmaker HBrawl decks.

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005

Try reading some manga!


Clever Betty

rickiep00h posted:

Giving you cards that aren't legal to build with in the format is stupid bullshit.
on the other hand, Oracle of the Alpha is my second favorite magic card ever printed designed, it's really goofy but fun. In conclusion, alchemy is a land of contrasts

!Klams
Dec 25, 2005

Squid Squad

Captain Invictus posted:

on the other hand, Oracle of the Alpha is my second favorite magic card ever printed designed, it's really goofy but fun. In conclusion, alchemy is a land of contrasts

Lol, yeah, oracle is the only one I play with. I did have a game where I cast one, drew a card and it was time walk. Cast time walk, killed them on the next go. And I thought, like, man. That sucked.

Retcon
Jun 23, 2010

Had a HB recently where i almost had my opponent dead and then they got 3 Light of Hope in a row from their Tome of the Infinite.

moderately tilted from that one

MeinPanzer
Dec 20, 2004
anyone who reads Cinema Discusso for anything more than slackjawed trolling will see the shittiness in my posts
I plopped a single Tome of the Infinite in my historic UW affinity deck and it’s won me way more games than I would ever have anticipated. I can tutor for it with Fiddlebender when necessary and it’s invaluable in breaking deadlocked slow games.

Most of Alchemy is dumb bullshit but I have to admit that its impact on historic is minor enough to be tolerable (which I presume was precisely the designers’ aim).

generatrix
Aug 8, 2008

Nothing hurts like a scrape


From the ONE survey. I wouldn’t mind if draft and set boosters got combined, as long as it was a replacement for the two, and not in addition to them.

My friends and I did try sealed with set boosters once, and it was a bit rough not having as many commons to fill all the roles. But if sets are designed with the new distribution in mind then it would probably be fine.

Algid
Oct 10, 2007


flatluigi posted:

if they're bad enough that they wouldn't go in decks they're too bad for people to actually pick them as their spellbook choice, and if they're worth picking someone's probably running it somewhere (or a roughly equivalent card)

Draw a generally below rate card is still draw a card, it's also only below rate relative to power level in a vacuum, drafting gives you much better chances of a 3 drop when you want a 3 drop instead of drawing your efficient 1 drop from your deck. The real problem is there's no way for anyone to play around it without unreasonable mental load. You see 4 swamps across from you in standard and you have a good idea what's in their deck even aside from what you saw so far. You see four swamps and a xander's wake trigger instead and the number of possible cards you're facing just increased significantly.

The real atrocious alchemy designs are the stuff that could easily be real cards though. Traumatic prank could have been an enchantment with an etb trigger, but instead we're stuck with lovely 3 mana treacheries with no real upside in standard. Same with something like the red obliterator where it could have exiled x from the top or even flipped until x nonland if you want to emulate seek.

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005

Try reading some manga!


Clever Betty

generatrix posted:



From the ONE survey. I wouldn’t mind if draft and set boosters got combined, as long as it was a replacement for the two, and not in addition to them.

My friends and I did try sealed with set boosters once, and it was a bit rough not having as many commons to fill all the roles. But if sets are designed with the new distribution in mind then it would probably be fine.
this sounds like the most likely scenario for future sets(2024 and beyond) so they can cut down on types of product produced, the one thing they'd definitely need to change is the set booster "theme" bullshit, because draft/sealed with that would result in hilariously lopsided decks per person. like the NEO iirc had a type of set booster that could have like 4 or 5 uncommon sagas in it replacing basically all the commons.

Serf
May 5, 2011


I'm feeling like these new Masters precons are gonna be the most expensive they've ever printed. Put the free spell cycle in there again with some more pushed stuff and a limited print run? Easy money.

Vidmaster
Oct 26, 2002



Serf posted:

I'm feeling like these new Masters precons are gonna be the most expensive they've ever printed. Put the free spell cycle in there again with some more pushed stuff and a limited print run? Easy money.

They could do that, or they could give us yet another round of Theros Temple reprints and a couple C-list mythics that cost $2. I’m preordering them anyways because I like collecting all the commander precons, but I doubt they’ll be packed with massive value.

mcmagic
Jul 1, 2004

If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Rinkles posted:

what's a good standard starter deck? save for the free packs, none of my collection is legal anymore :[

Mono blue shitters.

Balon
May 23, 2010

...my greatest work yet.
Hey I’m giving away a copy of the “Look at the Kitties” con-exclusive Secret Lair. Details on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/cmdrmechanic/status/1628423157034909699?s=46&t=djPJ5PaEvCQV63C3v-57Iw

LifeLynx
Feb 27, 2001

Dang so this is like looking over his shoulder in real-time
Grimey Drawer

Balon posted:

Hey I’m giving away a copy of the “Look at the Kitties” con-exclusive Secret Lair. Details on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/cmdrmechanic/status/1628423157034909699?s=46&t=djPJ5PaEvCQV63C3v-57Iw

Is the only way to get that at the con? My Rin and Seri deck needs this. Entered!

TotalHell
Feb 22, 2005

Roman Reigns fights CM Punk in fantasy warld. Lotsa violins, so littl kids cant red it.


There’s also another very relevant MTG-related giveaway going, with a good cause attached: Prof of Tolarian Community College is running his annual TransLifeLine donation drive on Twitter. If you donate you have a chance to win a bunch of stuff.

I figure it’s worth sharing the word here to let people know about good cause they may want to donate to. So enter Balon’s giveaway above and then check this tweet to donate some money and potentially win some MTG swag:

https://twitter.com/tolariancollege/status/1628439307806720000?s=46&t=fs2SzXItU0WOe0BNNQqcjQ

HootTheOwl
May 13, 2012

Hootin and shootin

TotalHell posted:

There’s also another very relevant MTG-related giveaway going, with a good cause attached: Prof of Tolarian Community College is running his annual TransLifeLine donation drive on Twitter. If you donate you have a chance to win a bunch of stuff.

I figure it’s worth sharing the word here to let people know about good cause they may want to donate to. So enter Balon’s giveaway above and then check this tweet to donate some money and potentially win some MTG swag:

https://twitter.com/tolariancollege/status/1628439307806720000?s=46&t=fs2SzXItU0WOe0BNNQqcjQ

https://twitter.com/BasicMountain/status/1628463874478575616?s=20

Balon
May 23, 2010

...my greatest work yet.

LifeLynx posted:

Is the only way to get that at the con? My Rin and Seri deck needs this. Entered!

Ya, only available at Magic Cons!

Vidmaster
Oct 26, 2002



LifeLynx posted:

Is the only way to get that at the con? My Rin and Seri deck needs this. Entered!

There was also a "festival in a box" secret lair offering, which has the kitties pack, a convention mystery booster box, a playmat, and some other random crap in it. I think it was $250 or something, but hopefully that means some folks will be reselling the kitty packs when it ships.

Chamale
Jul 11, 2010

I'm helping!



Rinkles posted:

what's a good standard starter deck? save for the free packs, none of my collection is legal anymore :[

You could try this no-rare Burn deck, or there's a competitive Mono-Blue Tempo deck with only 7 rares in the maindeck.

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

i ran that mono-u tempo deck for a daily and got roped at least twice, which never happens when im running my usual rdw.

so you know its good

Xenolalia
Feb 17, 2016



sorry if this is too technical, but does anyone have suggestions wrt playing monoblack in standard right now? I'm a very casual player generally but i've spent the last week and a half playing arena seriously and I am just absolutely stuck in a cycle of getting up to D1 and then immediately getting filtered back down a rank or 2. I've never really been at this level of seriousness about magic before.

elbkaida
Jan 13, 2008
Look!

Xenolalia posted:

sorry if this is too technical, but does anyone have suggestions wrt playing monoblack in standard right now? I'm a very casual player generally but i've spent the last week and a half playing arena seriously and I am just absolutely stuck in a cycle of getting up to D1 and then immediately getting filtered back down a rank or 2. I've never really been at this level of seriousness about magic before.

Try looking up some youtube videos where high mythic players play the deck and see what they do differently. You can also install 17lands or something else that can record your games and then go over them after to see if there was a winning play that you missed. If you want post them in the arena thread or here for people to pick apart. Is it a particular matchup you're having trouble with?

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



If you're getting up to d1, then after that it's just a matter of playing enough games. There's not a huge difference in skill between diamond and mythic. Just keep playing and you will eventually hit it. Examining your own play and trying to improve never hurts though.

Edit: Sometimes I'll be bored at work and watch youtube videos like 'pro mtg player tries to rate hearthstone cards" or whatever. It's kinda funny that non-magic players have like a 30% chance to correctly evaluate magic cards, but magic pros have like a 75% chance to correctly evaluate hearthstone or runeterra or ygo or whatever.

A Moose fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Feb 23, 2023

Cactrot
Jan 11, 2001

Go Go Cactus Galactus





TotalHell posted:

There’s also another very relevant MTG-related giveaway going, with a good cause attached: Prof of Tolarian Community College is running his annual TransLifeLine donation drive on Twitter. If you donate you have a chance to win a bunch of stuff.

I figure it’s worth sharing the word here to let people know about good cause they may want to donate to. So enter Balon’s giveaway above and then check this tweet to donate some money and potentially win some MTG swag:

https://twitter.com/tolariancollege/status/1628439307806720000?s=46&t=fs2SzXItU0WOe0BNNQqcjQ

Just casually raising over a hundred thousand dollars in less than a day is very cool.

Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011

BRRREADSTOOORRM!
I'm not anyone is interested but I've had some time to dig through Hasbro's 22 deck and thought I'd share some thoughts;

FY22
Net rev +3%
EBITDA -7%

Q4
Net rev +22%
EBITDA +6%

Kamigawa, New Capenna and Dominaria all passed the $100M threshold in 22, Brother's War hasn't yet and is pacing below the other three sets. It'll get there but with it not being the most current set the pace isn't likely to improve.

40k decks were a huge success and have had three reprints so far. Licensing costs were called out as a detriment to EBITDA and the after market price hike leads me to expect the Dr. Who decks will be priced in line with the Commander Masters precons instead of the 40k ones.

Digital revenues are flagging, I'd expect more resources being thrown at older set Remasters on Arena to offset lulls between paper set releases.

Q3 dogged hard this year, not having a standard release was blamed in part so I wouldn't be surprised if they announced another Standard set timing shake up for 24. I don't think they'd try to do another Core set in July but they might try pushing the September set to August.

For this year they probably going to be pushing Commander Masters hard to carry the quarter. If you've had your eye on an expensive Commander staple that wasn't reprinted in 22 I'd hold off for now.

With the gulf between Net and EBITDA I'd also expect another price hike coming. Special sets first then over to Standard sets sometime in 24.

Salvor_Hardin
Sep 13, 2005

I want to go protest.
Nap Ghost
This format...

I do not like this format.

Mezzanon
Sep 16, 2003

Pillbug

Salvor_Hardin posted:

This format...

I do not like this format.

What format?

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



I don't usually play standard, but is Vat of Rebirth seeing any standard play right now? It seems like one of the better reanimate spells we've gotten in standard in a while, especially while blood tokens and treasures are pretty easy to get. Depending on your draw, it can go off turn 4 or 5 like most other reanimation spells they print into standard, but if someone wraths or exiles your big creature, it can just keep reanimating stuff. Like you don't just go off and hope they have an answer, its also a backup plan. Seems like there's enough sacrifice stuff to keep putting counters on it.

Or is it better to just bend over backwards to be able to cast Invoke Justice?

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fadam
Apr 23, 2008

A Moose posted:

I don't usually play standard, but is Vat of Rebirth seeing any standard play right now? It seems like one of the better reanimate spells we've gotten in standard in a while, especially while blood tokens and treasures are pretty easy to get. Depending on your draw, it can go off turn 4 or 5 like most other reanimation spells they print into standard, but if someone wraths or exiles your big creature, it can just keep reanimating stuff. Like you don't just go off and hope they have an answer, its also a backup plan. Seems like there's enough sacrifice stuff to keep putting counters on it.

Or is it better to just bend over backwards to be able to cast Invoke Justice?

I’ve seen lists with both (not at the same time) but the lands are good enough that casting Invoke Justice isn’t too hard and in some matchups a Portal is a better reanimate target than Atraxa or Titan so it’s my preference.

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