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Xerol posted:Next time around I might make it a liquid tank of some kind instead. Part of me wants to use crude for it since there's so much and I'm not really using a lot of it but having it all down at -30 when I finally do want to start a petroleum boiler is not going to be fun. Water/pwater wouldn't be able to get cold enough to chill the fridge. Guess I could use post-boiler petroleum but I'd need to pre-chill it so as not to overtax the aquatuners (at which point I would need to start burning the petroleum for power). If you swap out the mafic rock in your cool box (2 in your picture) with water, you get a lot more mass and temperature stability. 1000 kg of ice per square instead of the 100 from the rock. Will take forever to freeze, but you could just brute force it with more aquatuners.
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Feb 23, 2023 12:37
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Dunno-Lars posted:If you swap out the mafic rock in your cool box (2 in your picture) with water, you get a lot more mass and temperature stability. 1000 kg of ice per square instead of the 100 from the rock. Will take forever to freeze, but you could just brute force it with more aquatuners. For cold applications, soil shift plates are also good. 800kg, high conductivity and SH.
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Feb 23, 2023 18:17
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I thought ice transferred heat much worse than water would though. Update on the 32 dupe challenge: everyone starved to death in all 3 test games so far. Can't get mealwood planted fast enough and the space you need means you're going to be in areas where some of it immediately gets temperature stifled. Might have to resort to microbe mushers but that ends up eating up a huge amount of labor that I need to be using for digging for algae, muckroot, and metals.
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Feb 23, 2023 20:36
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32 sounds like no fun at all. After your muckroot is gone that’s 160 mealwood to farm.
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Feb 23, 2023 20:40
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I really enjoyed my last 100-dupe challenge run, but that was the "accept all dupes" version so the ramp was way more manageable. I think if you're really pushing for that heavy start you'll need those quick calories from mushers, I just can't think of an easy way to push past those early cycles otherwise. In theory you'll still have at least half your dupes free, so you can still make a ton of progress on building sustainable food production. I leaned hard on slime caps last time, maybe there's an alternative start that works better?
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Feb 23, 2023 20:47
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I had originally just been going with whatever 32 random dupes the mod threw at me (I'm using one that just lets you adjust the number of starting dupes), but after the first failure I rerolled anyone who was flatulent (the pressure of the random natural gas packets was really mucking up the mealwood and algae diffusers) and after the second I made sure to start with a few pre-rolled skills: hard digging, advanced research, cooking, and crop tending. Unfortunately I forgot to make sure I had advanced research on the 3rd attempt and ended up starving before I could get a farm station researched. Oxygen has generally been no problem. It only takes 6 and change algae diffusers at full capacity to keep 32 dupes breathing (and the difference early on is made up with oxylite and polluted water offgassing). The CO2 is more of a problem, one that I've been mitigating by digging a gigantic sink for it (and incidentally uprooting a lot of seeds and muckroot). Haven't lasted long enough to get a carbon skimmer running but I think I will need several in the long run. I've been doing these attempts on Rime so there's also the option of digging the sump into one of the colder biomes and freezing all the carbon dioxide. Which has also been the problem with food: the mealwood has been dying because of cold, not heat. You do start with a decent enough area that's warm enough but early on you need that space for your oxygen production, research, and bathrooms - you just don't have the time budget to put those anywhere but near the pod. That's why my strategy next time is going to be to run right at the fertilizer station, so I can get more mealwood out of the same area (and less labor per mealwood). And also to make the starting seeds go farther, which has been another problem. Bristle blossoms are actually even better once you can get past 7-8 cycles, less labor for more calories and they tolerate the cold slightly better than mealwood. But insulated tiles take a long time to get running so I end up starving before I can wall off the cold. The other thing was trying to get ranching going ASAP. By picking a dupe or two that starts with ranching it's just a matter of getting the research up. The basic design I follow uses mechanical airlocks as the floor for fancy automation stuff later on but I think rather than trying to futureproof a colony that may not last 10 more cycles, just getting a really basic one running to start meat production faster would be better. Plenty of time and labor available to dig out the room in advance. Should even be plenty of labor to run incubators without smart automation since you can just throw more hamster wheels at the power problem.
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Feb 23, 2023 21:21
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Francis John did a spaced out with double calories and went hard on hatch ranching from the start, focus on incubating eggs and getting many ranches up asap. Crews of dupes on wheels powering incubator banks giving exponential growth of food, which farming can't match.
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Feb 23, 2023 21:39
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Echo Ridge Gaming did a 50 dupes for 50 cycles challenge and IIRC he used several microbe mushers in the beginning. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XTRC8C4u70
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Feb 23, 2023 21:44
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Coolnezzz posted:Echo Ridge Gaming did a 50 dupes for 50 cycles challenge and IIRC he used several microbe mushers in the beginning. Yeah this was actually what inspired me to try this (and the 75 dupe attempts that never got past about 25 cycles). What I'm doing differently, and part of why I'm starting with fewer dupes, is I want to turn this into a sustainable long-term colony, not just getting to 50 cycles by the thinnest margins. OzyMandrill posted:Francis John did a spaced out with double calories and went hard on hatch ranching from the start, focus on incubating eggs and getting many ranches up asap. Crews of dupes on wheels powering incubator banks giving exponential growth of food, which farming can't match. Yeah this is the longer-term plan, but I have to survive long enough to research ranching first. So the whole focus on farming is getting up to about cycle 20-30 when the ranches will be able to start providing some of the calories needed.
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Feb 23, 2023 21:57
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I have spent half an hour trying to google this and not finding any useful information: how many asteroids are there on a fully explored starmap? The wiki has a list of possible asteroid types but I'm not sure if one seed will have all of them, some of them, more than one of some of them? e: Another hour later and I did manage to figure it out. For future reference it's 8 for the "classic" style clusters, 9 for SO-style and 11 for moonlets. I was wondering this because now that I've managed to get the 32 dupe start stable over 100 cycles, I want to extend this to a "no printing dupes" challenge where you start with enough to put a colony of 4 on each asteroid, with that being the end goal, and one extra to send through the tear. So that will be 37 for a 9-asteroid cluster. But that doesn't include frozen friends, or the hermit. Starting with 35 shouldn't be much harder than starting with 32, right? Xerol fucked around with this message at 13:10 on Feb 27, 2023 |
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Feb 27, 2023 12:17
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Can you please rephrase your question to more like "how much harder will 3 extra dupes be?" so we can all quote it for the thread title?
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Feb 27, 2023 15:22
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Oxygen Not Included - Will more dupes make it really hard
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Feb 27, 2023 21:10
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I'm back at the game after a year-long break. I do have the Spaced Out! DLC. I'm at 71 cycles, 6 dupes. The asteroid looks like this:  I need to tackle the chlorine areas, and I've never done that without dumping the chlorine all over the base, with bonus of killing off the chlorine-dwellers. Is the correct approach to set up an anteroom with a gas pump and filter that stores the chlorine, then enter from above? That way any leakage gets caught.
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Feb 28, 2023 00:12
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You can use a water lock if you want, if you don't want to do it the hacky way you can just build a literal U bend and fill it with water using a hand pump and bottle emptier. That will prevent any gas transfer.
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Feb 28, 2023 00:15
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You can also use a mod that makes airlock doors airtight. I wouldn't play without it, personally
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Feb 28, 2023 00:17
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Panty Saluter posted:You can also use a mod that makes airlock doors airtight. I wouldn't play without it, personally Oh, yeah, I use that mod, too. Maybe I should just trust it. Second question: I have a lovely cool-salt-slush geyser. If I want to tap it, what should I make the pump out of to keep it from being destroyed by freezing?
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Feb 28, 2023 00:36
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Material of the pump doesn't matter too much to avoid freezing, it is the state change of the liquid in the pipes that will cause damage. The biggest danger here is sending the liquid through a desalinator without heating it first.
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Feb 28, 2023 01:00
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Smiling Demon posted:Material of the pump doesn't matter too much to avoid freezing, it is the state change of the liquid in the pipes that will cause damage. The biggest danger here is sending the liquid through a desalinator without heating it first. I'm actually planning on using it to send a cooling loop around the base, no desalination required. e: nvm surfboard question. Arsenic Lupin fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Feb 28, 2023 |
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Feb 28, 2023 02:17
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Re: chlorine, you can also enter the chlorine area from the top and dig it out from top to bottom with no protection if you have high oxygen pressure at the top — either by pumping in oxygen or by having the ambient pressure be high outside before you break in. Also if you don’t want to bother with filtering, storing, and/or pumping the chlorine to space, and you have at least one saltvine (*cough* checktheteleporterworld) and a little sand, you can get the chlorine compressed near the bottom of the chamber you make, plant a saltvine there, and wait a few dozen cycles.
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Feb 28, 2023 04:44
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Does the magma layer here mean I have no petroleum? Because that would suck.
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Feb 28, 2023 18:59
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Does the magma layer here mean I have no petroleum? Because that would suck. Oil is going to be on your second planetoid (depending on your starter planetoid). That there is the barren biome which has a bit of refined iron in it. Having no oil on your starting planetoid adds some spice to the game that makes for different strategies compared to vanilla ONI. It took me a while to get used to it myself.
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Feb 28, 2023 19:08
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Coolnezzz posted:Oil is going to be on your second planetoid (depending on your starter planetoid). That there is the barren biome which has a bit of refined iron in it. Having no oil on your starting planetoid adds some spice to the game that makes for different strategies compared to vanilla ONI. It took me a while to get used to it myself. The bummer is that I haven't found the personnel transporter yet. Materials, yes, personnel, no.
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Feb 28, 2023 19:13
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Might not even be on that second planetoid either. But that's the challenge
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Feb 28, 2023 21:06
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Arsenic Lupin posted:The bummer is that I haven't found the personnel transporter yet. Materials, yes, personnel, no. It's in the top right of the screenshot, that crane arm thing is always in the upper teleporter room. SO maps also aren't very large in general so unless you're really hurting for labor it's worth sending exploratory tunnels/ladders around to reveal most of the map before too long. Also helps to know where your hot/cold biomes are so you can insulate off/tap into the temperature differences. Leaky oil fissures suck in the long term but they're actually pretty great for getting enough plastic to do a few turbines and comfy beds, or petroleum to fill cooling loops, which is why it's something I've been specifically looking for on new maps. You just won't be able to rely on them for power. ---- Challenge update: the 32 dupe base made it to around 105 cycles when the update broke something (probably mod-related) on the map and now it just won't load anymore. I will come back to it at some point (probably as the 35+2 settle-all-worlds challenge) but I've moved on to inventing even dumber challenges. I still have never beaten the game or done most achievements, I just find it fun to pick a limitation and play for a few hours on one map and then move on. The one I'm doing right now I call "Superspecialists" - you can only print dupes that have a single interest, and that skill is the only* one they are allowed to perform. They can take other skills on the tree (in particular to unlock prereqs for mechatronics/ranching, but also in general for the stat buffs if they seem useful), but can't put anything other than disabled priority on the labor list for them. They're also not allowed to start with any skills. The labor priority exceptions are: -Seems builders can dig out under build commands even if they have digging completely disabled. So they're not allowed to take any digging skills, and can only dig tier 0 tiles and only to dig what they're there to build. With digging disabled they just won't respond to any dig-only commands. You can cheese this by queueing up builds and then cancelling them once the digging is done, but in the spirit of the challenge I'm not going to do that. So there will be ladders everywhere. -Everyone gets "low" priority in life support and toggling, and "very low" in tidying, supplying, and storing, otherwise nothing would ever get done. But their selected skill is going to receive by far the highest priority and so they will only do those when their other jobs are all taken care of. -Mechatronics engineers are allowed lowest build priority once they have the skill unlocked and the tech is there for them to have jobs to do, otherwise sweepers etc. just never get built. -Diggers can get lowest priority on attacking until you have a rancher, then they are the only ones who can do that. -You can dig out one tile of sandstone before setting labor restrictions, so you have something to queue up ladders with. It's really made the starting choices interesting. You absolutely need to take a builder, otherwise nothing will ever happen. Similarly, you need an operator to run on your first power wheel, otherwise you'll never get coal generators researched**. For the third dupe it seems you have two realistic options: a digger, so you can do something that isn't spamming ladders everywhere to make living space (and eventually break out of the granite prison), or a researcher, so you can, well, do anything in the long run. I've ended up going with the ladder base and a researcher, because in my test games so far it's impossible to rely on getting any dupe with a single interest within the first 30 cycles or so, let alone one that's actually useful to the early base. You won't have anyone able to harvest planted or wild crops until you get a farmer, but anyone with supplying can plant crops and fully grown crops will drop on the ground after a few cycles of being fully grown. I might use a mod to reroll pod dupes since waiting until cycle 45 to get a 4th dupe and do anything other than build ladders and research isn't much of a game at all.
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Mar 2, 2023 21:52
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Yeah, 'start with 11x starting population' sounds like a fun and interesting challenge, that one just sounds like I could be playing a fun game, or doing the dishes, or driving a railroad spike through each foot, instead.
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Mar 3, 2023 19:16
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It has been fun in its own way, it's really made me focus on having a smaller, more compact base since you can't just core out the entire starting biome and call it a day. Having fewer dupes to provide food and oxygen for has made it a very relaxing experience (especially compared to the 32 dupe start). Unfortunately regardless of the starting conditions, this is a game where time is never on your side, so waiting 45-60 cycles to see a dupe that can get your food supply expanding or plastic production going before the base overheats is still a problem. I think as a compromise to keep most of the spirit of the challenge going I'm still not going to reroll most printing pod options, but allow myself to reroll for a specific dupe every 15 cycles. Wonder if I could start without a researcher then, instead go builder/digger/operator, and get the researcher on/before cycle 15. They won't have much to do until that happens, but at least we'll be able to plan out the basic parts of the base a bit quicker.
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Mar 3, 2023 19:47
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How do you start a 30+ dupe challenge? Is there a mod for it?
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Mar 4, 2023 03:29
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I used a mod that had way too many settings for what I needed, but one of them was to change the number of starting dupes. I think it was this one but I'm not at my main PC to check right now, but the screenshots look correct. Is there currently any way to get more supply closet items? I've started papering all my private bedrooms with various patterns using the few wallpaper skins I have now but I want more. And also the puft bed. e: Here's some of the patterns I came up with. Probably should've taken the screenshot before the beds went in, oh well. 
Xerol fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Mar 5, 2023 |
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Mar 5, 2023 02:16
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That's uhhh a lot of pufts I guess we're having (renewable) mushrooms 
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Mar 18, 2023 15:32
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Really wish the game wouldn't force a restart when mods I have disabled are updated.
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Mar 21, 2023 09:59
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Would moving from my starting asteroid to the teleporter world have any unintended consequences? Maybe with late game rocketry? My teleporter asteroid has water, oil, and volcanoes, and I might just hop over permanently.
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Mar 23, 2023 19:08
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Until you get all the amenities up you might have morale issues, so it might be better to scrub a few dupes that have morale bonuses for digging and building and send them over to build a great hall, nice bathroom, etc. before sending everyone else over. You could probably leave a few people on the original base to teleport food over until the new colony gets self-sufficient. You might want to leave a skeleton crew there permanently anyway just to maintain things.
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Mar 23, 2023 19:17
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And rocket platforms are rocket platforms. Doesn’t matter where they are (except for range purposes, of course).
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Mar 23, 2023 21:05
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It's the range thing I'm worried about. Wondering if that 3 hex difference is enough that I'd need an extra fuel tank to reach some of the further locations on the starmap, or anything.
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Mar 23, 2023 23:06
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Well if so you could pretty easily build a rocket platform on your starting asteroid and just use it as a refueling station. It’s got the teleporter so you can even send fuel there without dupes. Will range be an issue? possibly, early in your space career. Later on, nah.
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Mar 24, 2023 03:40
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New update out, mostly meteor-related. Guess I'm starting a new map this weekend. Thought up another dumb challenge: limiting the number of tiles you're allowed to dig and/or build in a cycle. This limits the resources you have available in a couple of ways, by quantity and by location (in the early game) and makes using space efficiently more of a factor. Was thinking of starting with a limit of 40 per cycle, that gives you enough to hopefully get metal in the first cycle and enough minerals and space to build bathrooms, pitcher pumps, and beds. I think it will also help with focusing the base design and not just digging out large areas for the sake of it, as well as not tying up a lot of labor in digging out big empty areas. Carbon dioxide is probably going to be a problem to deal with early as well.
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Mar 31, 2023 04:31
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klei posted:
I take it nobody proofread this before posting
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Mar 31, 2023 05:11
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 My rovers died as they lived, in scalding hot hellfire.
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Apr 16, 2023 00:50
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It is every rover's final duty to go into the piss.
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Apr 16, 2023 02:03
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 Not exactly how I intended this build to go, but it's better this way. At least it's cooler for them.
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Apr 16, 2023 18:03
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