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Artificer posted:So if you go fast enough theoretically you can survive infinite mines? All you have to do is outrun the shockwave of the explosion! It's genius!
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Feb 27, 2023 20:36
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EorayMel posted:It lets all the other guys know where the mines aren't now! You'd think that but apparently not, it seems to make them think "oh good, he's cleared the mine. now I can drive around him safely". I don't know if it's selection bias but I've been seeing so many videos of Russian armour getting taken out by mines in open fields lately. Probably 7-8 separate incidents this past week.
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Feb 27, 2023 21:05
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The rule is "Don't Stop in the Kill Zone"; forward is just as safe as backwards- unless you stay EXCACTLY where you've already been, you are risking just the same as forward. You are already in a plotted minefield. That means it is also preplotted for arty. You are already hosed. That track took two off route mines and a third that mobility killed. Kinda badass.
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Feb 27, 2023 21:19
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These mine things seem like real fuckers!
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Feb 27, 2023 21:26
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Dandywalken posted:These mine things seem like real fuckers! Was it my imagination or were they the ones that fire parallel to the ground instead of the ones you drive over?
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Feb 27, 2023 21:45
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bulletsponge13 posted:The rule is "Don't Stop in the Kill Zone"; forward is just as safe as backwards- unless you stay EXCACTLY where you've already been, you are risking just the same as forward. I'm pretty sure if my vehicle had just hit a mine, the option to continue likely just means hitting more mines.
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Feb 27, 2023 21:48
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CommieGIR posted:I'm pretty sure if my vehicle had just hit a mine, the option to continue likely just means hitting more mines. I’d assume that unless I follow my entry tracks back out perfectly, no matter which way I drive there are more mines ahead. And also it’s about to start raining metal, because pre-plotted artillery/mortars/lurking drones/random Ukrainians with Javelins and a level of grudge vs Russians that dwarves would be proud of, etc.
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Feb 27, 2023 21:55
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https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1622891754104975360?s=20 Don't gently caress with the USA.
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Feb 27, 2023 21:58
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Assuming that tweet thread is accurate, goddamn. An initial strike out of loving nowhere to lock them in place, helicopters effectively corralling the survivors while jets and then a Spooky pound the living gently caress out of them. I like the part about the Russian pilots trying to get permission to take off and join the fight and their leaders screaming gently caress NO since they'd be flaming wreckage before the landing gear was even in
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Feb 27, 2023 22:04
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CommieGIR posted:I'm pretty sure if my vehicle had just hit a mine, the option to continue likely just means hitting more mines. Continuing in any direction risks that. It's a damned of you do, damned if you don't, because you are going to get hit with preplotted fires. Just Another Lurker posted:Was it my imagination or were they the ones that fire parallel to the ground instead of the ones you drive over? Those are what they call Off Route mines; they are kinda like mini- Anti-Tank missiles. They are set up some small distance from the anticipated route. They have different ways to trigger, from trip to command to magnetic, but when they go off, they fire an Explosively Formed Penetrator (think molten copper bullet that shoots through armor. Not a good description, but it will do). What you saw was the launching charge backblast, then the resulting impact. E- Comrade Blyatlov posted:Assuming that tweet thread is accurate, goddamn. An initial strike out of loving nowhere to lock them in place, helicopters effectively corralling the survivors while jets and then a Spooky pound the living gently caress out of them. What's funny is that is like Day 1 ambush tactics, and was the tactic that ate their units wholesale in AFG. Take out lead, take our rear, hammer in place, with special consideration to anything that has a lot of antenna or looks important. I recall when this happened, some of the fast movers complained that there were no targets left to hit, that rotary wing and supporting fires had eliminated any targets worth the ordinance. bulletsponge13 fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Feb 27, 2023 |
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Feb 27, 2023 22:05
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Assuming that tweet thread is accurate, goddamn. An initial strike out of loving nowhere to lock them in place, helicopters effectively corralling the survivors while jets and then a Spooky pound the living gently caress out of them. Strong Bay of Pigs 'of course the air force and navy have your backs, "deniable" mercenaries! for sure!' energy Narrator: They did not.
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Feb 27, 2023 22:07
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EorayMel posted:I also wonder if the recent developments of Wagner guys complaining about, say, not getting enough ammo, was Putin's way of punishing Wagner for not taking any meaningful objective fast/good enough(could be very wrong though). Plus Putin's own paranoia(the giant empty table jokes) and self-preservation of limiting Wagner trying to get any funny ideas about their superiors. I think it's more Wagner getting the same amount as every other part of the front. Prigozhin has often alluded to his connections, but those just mean he calls in favours to get allocated more ammo than other units. They don't have a separate supply chain. PMCs are technically illegal in Russia, so Wagner only exists with the tacit permission of Putin. It seems Prigozhin vastly overplayed his hand in attacking Shoigu, biting the hand that feeds Wagner the shells.
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Feb 27, 2023 22:08
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bulletsponge13 posted:Continuing in any direction risks that. It's a damned of you do, damned if you don't, because you are going to get hit with preplotted fires. True, forgot about pre-spotted artillery 
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Feb 27, 2023 22:08
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I can't believe they even entertained the thought of having regular Russian military assets participate and drop all pretense of credible deniability. The US forces were also in constant contact with their Russian liaison to make sure there were no regular Russian units in the column.
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Feb 27, 2023 22:11
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1622891754104975360?s=20 The absolute bonkers part was the US used the deconfliction line to ask the Russians prior to engaging "Hey, are any of these guys approaching our base yours? Because they are about to get lit the gently caress up unless they back off." The Russian officer on the other end said that they were not, and welp.
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Feb 27, 2023 22:15
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bulletsponge13 posted:
Absolutely. My first thought on reading that was that it's like textbook perfect poo poo. I'm assuming in 20 years time it'll be pointed to as a flawless example of an ambush on inferior forces or something.
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Feb 27, 2023 22:16
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bulletsponge13 posted:damned of you do, damned if you don't I always loved the way the rifle platoon field manual broke it down Barney-style in the first paragraphs by describing the difference between a problem and a dilemma. Problems can usually be solved, but a dilemma is when you can't solve one problem without running into or causing another one, and that's when the real destruction starts and that's why artillery is the "king of battle".
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Feb 27, 2023 22:19
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bees everywhere posted:I always loved the way the rifle platoon field manual broke it down Barney-style in the first paragraphs by describing the difference between a problem and a dilemma. Problems can usually be solved, but a dilemma is when you can't solve one problem without running into or causing another one, and that's when the real destruction starts and that's why artillery is the "king of battle". DPICM gives no fucks. Neither do ADAMS or RAAMS. Dual Purpose Improved Conventional Munition (24 Anti Armor spikes, 64 bouncing betties) the other two are anti personell and anti tank mines as delivered by howitzer. Artillery has many doors ed boy.
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Feb 27, 2023 22:25
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1622891754104975360?s=20 You gotta love how he lists the whole MASSIVE fireworks and in the end it's "well, ackshually, it wasn't that bad. I'm not going to comment on how many of ours were killed".
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Feb 27, 2023 22:34
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Power Khan posted:You gotta love how he lists the whole MASSIVE fireworks and in the end it's "well, ackshually, it wasn't that bad. I'm not going to comment on how many of ours were killed". I read that the opposite - that both 200 and 600 were nowhere near the actual amount.
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Feb 27, 2023 22:36
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https://twitter.com/Flash_news_ua/status/1630319952698695681 Intelligence boss Budanov believes that China will stay out of the war and not supply Russia with anything it desperately needs, like heavy weapons or any of a number of myriad things like rocket propellants.
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Feb 27, 2023 22:40
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What does lined up and stood up in the context of that tweet regarding the wagner convoy? They stood up? Shouldn't they have taken cover and laid down? Or like tried to run? Is it a translation thing I'm not getting?
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Feb 27, 2023 22:45
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I took that as meaning "they could have laid down arms and waved a white t-shirt or something"
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Feb 27, 2023 22:47
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Artificer posted:What does lined up and stood up in the context of that tweet regarding the wagner convoy? i took it to mean the opposite of 'stood down', as in they took up fighting positions or something, translations can be a bit fucky
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Feb 27, 2023 22:55
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He means they stayed in line, against all reason and tactics, they maintained formation Or That's the way it seems to me.
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Feb 27, 2023 22:56
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zone posted:https://twitter.com/Flash_news_ua/status/1630319952698695681 I feel like in the end China won't directly engage like this other than bluster. I expect the people at the top are acutely aware that their economy is very vulnerable to sanctions regimes. They import tremendous amounts of raw materials to fuel their export economy, along with massive amounts of food. i think that they have a lot of the same social contact that Russia had (We'll let you have a comfortable middle class, just don't ask what the government is doing) along the lines of we'll uplift you out of poverty and provide jobs in the export sector as long as you obey. If something happens and those jobs collapse, it's going to be bad times. Their buddy Putin can't in any shape or form make up for the loss of Western business.
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Feb 27, 2023 22:59
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Artificer posted:What does lined up and stood up in the context of that tweet regarding the wagner convoy? I am wondering the same, it looks like the twitter thread is verbatim from google translate. This is the original text if we have any russian speakers in the house: В аккурат полуночи с 7 на 8 февраля отряды начали выполнения задачи. Пошла техника с пехотой. Начала работать артиллерия. Как вдруг по колонне 5-го штурмового отряда прилетает с неба и никто даже не понимает откуда. По классике противник замкнул колонну, уничтожив головную и замыкающую единицу техники. Почему колонна тогда выстроилась и встала – я не знаю. Факт в том, что несмотря на то, что «музыкантам» удалось продвинуться, поджаться под завод, чтобы американцы не могли бить по нам и одновременно себе – ребята не успели. Позже станет ясно, что за всем этим мимо нашего ПВО наблюдал ударный БПЛА MQ-9 «Reaper». E: I think China could probably get away with supporting the Russians but won't because they have more to gain from one of their largest resource rich neighbors bleeding themselves dry shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Feb 27, 2023 |
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Feb 27, 2023 23:15
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shame on an IGA posted:I am wondering the same, it looks like the twitter thread is verbatim from google translate. This is the original text if we have any russian speakers in the house: In this context it means “the column has formed a line and stopped moving”
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Feb 27, 2023 23:24
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I took it to mean stayed in formation instead of trying to break the gently caress out? The narrators incredulity kinda gave me that impression, and it goes back to what Sponge was just saying about the minefields, if you find yourself in a place called the "killzone" you really need to try to be anywhere else. But most likely you are already way beyond hosed.
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Feb 27, 2023 23:55
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I see thank you. The most insane part of that thread was their strat of "If we just run up close enough they wont be able to bomb and artillery us into oblivion without risking bombing and artillerying themselves." Surely that's not considered a legitimate strategy nowadays?
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Feb 28, 2023 00:00
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KirbyKhan posted:War bad KirbyKhan posted:War bad! You're allowed to use more than two words. In fact, going forward it'll be a requirement if you choose to post in this thread. Bear in mind this is a spirit of the law over the letter of the law kind of subforum.
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Feb 28, 2023 00:03
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Artificer posted:I see thank you. Sure it is, but positions will also absolutely call in artillery fire on themselves anyway if they're about to be overrun. There's an example of a trench with two Ukrainians in it that's getting overrun about ten or twenty pages back in this here thread - and the audio released by the Ukrainian MoD has them calling for a strike on their own position as a final "gently caress you" to their attackers.
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Feb 28, 2023 00:07
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McNally posted:You're allowed to use more than two words. In fact, going forward it'll be a requirement if you choose to post in this thread. I’m not sure if his subtext is “war bad, Ukraine give up” because like duh fighting a war in your own country is the worse. I’d love to hear more on his position.
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Feb 28, 2023 00:48
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Kesper North posted:Sure it is, but positions will also absolutely call in artillery fire on themselves anyway if they're about to be overrun. There's an example of a trench with two Ukrainians in it that's getting overrun about ten or twenty pages back in this here thread - and the audio released by the Ukrainian MoD has them calling for a strike on their own position as a final "gently caress you" to their attackers. At that point it's also a numbers game. Danger close might kill you, but it's probably less likely than the attackers killing you, especially if you have cause to doubt your wellbeing as a prisoner of war.
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Feb 28, 2023 00:53
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Artificer posted:I see thank you. C-wire and other obstacles* are meant to prevent this from happening. Multiple lines of it with no clear way through/around, berms, picking a good spot to set up shop (high ground, natural barriers to movement, etc.). It should never just be open ground between you and whoever is assaulting your position, there should always be some sort of obstacle between you and whatever idiot is charging you. *military obstacles: here’s a primer. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstacles_to_troop_movement
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Feb 28, 2023 00:58
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china should provide weapons, to ukraine
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Feb 28, 2023 01:06
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Icon Of Sin posted:C-wire and other obstacles* are meant to prevent this from happening. Multiple lines of it with no clear way through/around, berms, picking a good spot to set up shop (high ground, natural barriers to movement, etc.). C-wire is a motherfucker to try to move through, and it can have all kinds of party favors attached to it that make noise, fire flares, or just loving explode. Assaulting a fortified position is never going to be easy.
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Feb 28, 2023 01:29
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:C-wire is a motherfucker to try to move through, and it can have all kinds of party favors attached to it that make noise, fire flares, or just loving explode. Assaulting a fortified position is never going to be easy. Consta-grabya wire
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Feb 28, 2023 01:33
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Taerkar posted:At that point it's also a numbers game. Danger close might kill you, but it's probably less likely than the attackers killing you, especially if you have cause to doubt your wellbeing as a prisoner of war. There's also ways to minimize that especially if you have some creative people on the gunline and FDC. Steel rain comes to mind. As does the FPF (final protective front, think cyclic fire but with howitzers) if they're too close. ICM in the wire if the cannons are about the be overrun. This involves aiming straight up and running.
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Feb 28, 2023 01:40
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ded posted:china should provide weapons, to ukraine I've seen the pictures of that Chinese shoulder fired ATGM glowing cherry red, mere fractions away from exploding, and the rifle that causes bullet tumble nearly from barrel exit. What I'm saying is, the Chinese should absolutely provide weapons to Russia. Like. Right now. Yesterday, even.
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Feb 28, 2023 01:56
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