[Ukraine] EU: Nice minister, shame if something were to happen...

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Ukraine] EU: Nice minister, shame if something were to happen...

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What is the most powerful flying bug? This poll is closed.
🦋	15	3.71%
🦇	115	28.47%
🪰	12	2.97%
🐦	67	16.58%
dragonfly	94	23.27%
🦟	14	3.47%
🐝	87	21.53%
Total:	404 votes

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BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Al-Saqr you should at least play the good warhammer gam e

# ? Feb 28, 2023 06:49

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# ? May 26, 2024 11:28

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

horny for heresy

# ? Feb 28, 2023 06:52

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

capital is chaos biden is horus and we all know who the emperor is

:trump:

# ? Feb 28, 2023 06:54

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

BULBASAUR posted:

Al-Saqr you should at least play the good warhammer gam e

i already play kill team

# ? Feb 28, 2023 06:58

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

Hopefully that Rogue Trader game is good.

# ? Feb 28, 2023 07:00

16-bit Butt-Head: Dec 25, 2014

this thread loves atomic hearts and has collected all the achievements

# ? Feb 28, 2023 07:03

Nix Panicus: Feb 25, 2007

Lostconfused posted:

Hopefully that Rogue Trader game is good.

Wrath of the Righteous was buggy as hell, but way less buggy than Kingmaker at launch. Plus it took them like half the time to come out with a definitive edition with almost all of the bugs fixed. If the pattern continues I'd say Rogue Trader will be a clean game around 6 months after release. It'll probably be a *good* game at launch, but riddled with bugs.

E: I am going to give Owlcat money so they can give it to Putin and nobody can stop me.

# ? Feb 28, 2023 07:04

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

16-bit Butt-Head posted:

this thread loves atomic hearts and has collected all the achievements

atomic hearts? warhammer? lemme what I got

# ? Feb 28, 2023 07:10

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

CODChimera posted:

https://twitter.com/ChuckPfarrer/status/1630188206313418754

so first you cut off all points of entry to crimea, and then you launch a land campaign where you will presumably get the troops into crimea and keep them supplied by way of ancient magics or something

# ? Feb 28, 2023 07:13

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

Since this is the Austria-Hungary Appreciation Thread, I will share this recounting of a very good and functional democracy :v:

# ? Feb 28, 2023 07:18

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Endman posted:

Since this is the Austria-Hungary Appreciation Thread, I will share this recounting of a very good and functional democracy :

Man that must have been a good era to be an accordian & bagpipe vendor. You could set up right next to parliament and be certain you'd get enough sales to pay overhead.

We need a return to those fine days.

# ? Feb 28, 2023 07:22

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Foreign Policy: Ukraine Can Change the Future of Prosecuting Crimes of Aggression

quote:

International efforts to prosecute the crime of aggression are focusing on punishing Russian leaders responsible for their country�s invasion of Ukraine. The Council of Europe�s Parliamentary Assembly has just called for the establishment of a special tribunal to prosecute the ongoing crime of aggression committed against Ukraine, starting with Russia�s annexation of Crimea in 2014. It states that �Russian and Belarusian political and military leaders who planned, prepared, initiated or executed these acts, and who were in a position to control or direct the political or military action of the State, should be identified and prosecuted.�

But why cast the net so narrowly? Deliberately targeting civilians and nonmilitary objectives is a war crime, whereas the crime of aggression covers the totality of the attacks and all of their killings, including the killings of Ukrainian soldiers. All those involved should be held liable for aggression.

Just war theorists traditionally argue that, if anyone is to be judged for waging a war of aggression, it�s only the military leaders on the aggressive side�and in any event, it might be better to avoid divining responsibility for who started and waged the war altogether. Remaining neutral on the question of who is to blame for aggression is a typical stance for humanitarian organizations seeking to assist the victims of war, but it shouldn�t be a position for just war theorists or any tribunals grounding their arguments in just war theory.

Russia�s invasion of Ukraine should change the way theorists and prosecutors think about individual responsibility in wartime. For a while now, philosophers such as David Rodin and Jeff McMahan have been arguing that just war theory�s prevailing idea that ordinary soldiers cannot be punished just for fighting should be revised or even rejected.

Today�s reality in Ukraine, I think, demands that their view be taken seriously. The idea that individual soldiers can and should be punished for waging a crime of aggression is philosophically better than the prevailing idea in just war theory�and it is also highly practicable. It can be used by prosecutors who, when the time comes, seek to argue that Russian soldiers should be held liable for knowingly participating in killings and destruction. Here�s why we should accept it.

Under classical just war theory, as philosopher Michael Walzer recently explained, soldiers from each side should be treated equally when it comes to the act of fighting, irrespective of the justness of their side. In his words, �[S]oldiers fighting just and unjust wars are moral equals: They have the same right to fight.� Different arguments have been used to justify this idea.

Some ethicists claim that soldiers are not responsible for the unjustness of their cause because they have been told that their war is just and they are under a duty to fight. The assumption is that belief in a war�s justice coupled with a duty to fight endows all soldiers with an equal right to fight.

But the importance of the right to fight is being overtaken by a human rights perspective arguing that the human right to life is more salient. The United Nations� Human Rights Committee stated in 2018 that lives taken as part of a war of aggression represent violations of the right to life.

At one level, the 2018 text is a plea for recognition that the only morally acceptable reason for taking a life is an immediate need to defend a life. But at another level, it forces a reconsideration of the assumption that, in wartime, soldiers have some sort of legal entitlement to kill. If killing soldiers in an act of aggression is now a violation of human rights law, then claiming that a soldier on the aggressor�s side is blameless and cannot be held liable for exercising a soldier�s right to kill makes no sense.

Neither does appealing to a soldier�s belief in the justness of their cause. People expect autonomous individuals to reflect on their actions and have their beliefs respected, whether or not they are soldiers. Clearly, conscripts coerced into fighting should not be judged in the same way as someone who has knowledge of plans to launch an aggressive war and who have the power to shape or influence such a war. But soldiers who are asked to fulfill their responsibilities under the laws of war are also smart enough to be aware of the unjustified destructiveness of a war of aggression. Their claimed beliefs in its justness should not be a reason to let them off the hook.

Another explanation commonly used to conclude that soldiers should not be punished just for fighting is that, if soldiers from the unjust side are liable to be punished for waging war no matter their battlefield behavior, then they have no incentive to spare civilians. If I�ll be punished anyway, a soldier might think, why behave well?

However, this is a poor argument for the claim that soldiers shouldn�t be punished just for fighting. It overlooks the fact that soldiers who are inclined to commit war crimes against civilians rarely think about the prospect of punishment�and in any event, the machinery for prosecuting war crimes represents an additional layer of criminal accountability rather than an alternative.

Lastly, it has been suggested that soldiers should not be punished for fighting because it is their duty to do so. In Walzer�s view, soldiers have a duty to follow rules and to kill. This inherent servitude makes it impossible to think of the act of fighting itself as a crime that soldiers can be held responsible for: In other words, �their war is not a crime.� But this exculpation of soldiers from the aggressor�s side seems ripe for revision in the 21st century.

The case for punishing soldiers who engage in a crime of aggression, regardless of whether they commit war crimes, is already starting to play out in the real world. In 2016, Ukraine convicted two Russians for, among other things, the crime of conducting an aggressive war. Yevgeny Yerofeyev and Alexander Alexandrov had been in the Russian armed forces with the rank of captain and sergeant respectively. They participated in the conflict in eastern Ukraine on the side of the so-called Luhansk People�s Republic and were both sentenced to 14 years of imprisonment.

While they were both pardoned a month after their convictions and exchanged for a Ukrainian pilot, the use of the crime of waging aggressive war is a reminder that the crime of aggression is not a dead letter. Although these prosecutions have been seen by many officials as exceptional, they suggest that another approach to just war theory is possible.

More recently, the prosecutor general of Ukraine announced in February that his office calculated that Russians were involved in 66 crimes related to waging aggressive war. They had a total of 637 suspects who were representatives of Russia�s military and political leadership. In turn, they state that this category includes ministers, deputies, military command, officials, and heads of law enforcement agencies.

In 1946, at the end of World War II, the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg made the point: �[Nazi leader Adolf] Hitler could not make aggressive war by himself. He had to have the co-operation of statesmen, military leaders, diplomats, and business men. When they, with knowledge of his aims, gave him their co-operation, they made themselves parties to the plan he had initiated. They are not to be deemed innocent because Hitler made use of them, if they knew what they were doing.�

Although the tribunal felt that some defendants had not gone beyond mere support, 12 defendants were found guilty of the charge that they participated in the planning, preparation, initiation, and waging of wars of aggression. They included on the military side Adms. Erich Raeder and Karl D�nitz. So when prosecutions were brought at the end of World War II for waging a war of aggression, the net was cast beyond the top leaders. But who should be caught in this net today is still not clear.

The U.S. Military Tribunal in the High Command Trial stated in 1948 that �[s]omewhere between the Dictator and Supreme Commander of the Military Forces of the nation and the common soldier is the boundary between the criminal and the excusable participation in the waging of an aggressive war by an individual engaged in it.� In the end, this tribunal did not consider that the generals in the dock should be convicted for aggression-related charges, saying this was not an issue of rank but rather that they themselves had not been in a position to shape or influence policies. The tribunal instead convicted 11 of them of war crimes and crimes against humanity.

In thinking about accountability for violence in Ukraine, people should not only consider all the lives lost but should also think about all those who are responsible. Of course military and political leaders will not lightly abandon the idea that people should not be punished for participating on the unjust side. The traditional just war response to the difficulty of determining which side is just has always been that soldiers cannot be punished solely for fighting because both sides will always consider their cause to be just and there is no one to sit in judgment on sovereign states. Who, after all, will determine which side is just?

Instead of stressing a right to fight or the equality of soldiers, just war thinkers seeking to reflect contemporary reality will have to consider the liability of individuals for waging a war of aggression. Prosecutors and tribunals will inevitably have to be selective about whom to prosecute. Such choices, as law professor Adil Haque points out, will be made using law and morality.

Those thinking about the morality of killing in war might reconsider the mantra that soldiers are entitled to kill and reflect on the reality that those who wage war are being targeted for prosecution�and that any concept of a traditional right to fight has been overtaken by the right to life. However many individuals are eventually prosecuted for waging war in Ukraine or for war crimes and crimes against humanity, the way people think about the individual responsibility of soldiers is changing.

# ? Feb 28, 2023 07:23

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

well, let's see if this theory of "grunts on the ground should be individually and personally culpable for their actions in war as violations of human rights" goes anywhere with the USMC being what it is

# ? Feb 28, 2023 07:24

Cuttlefush: Jan 15, 2014; gotta have my purp

16-bit Butt-Head posted:

this thread loves atomic hearts and has collected all the achievements

bioshock and all bioshocklikes suck rear end

# ? Feb 28, 2023 07:26

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Cuttlefush posted:

bioshock and all bioshocklikes suck rear end

I quite liked Outer Worlds. Even if the wheels started to come off the game design after the first third.

Wait I'm getting an update through my earpiece from NATO command. Oh, apparently that's the wrong kind of game and my opinions are terrible.

# ? Feb 28, 2023 07:28

Cuttlefush: Jan 15, 2014; gotta have my purp

that's falloutcore. i havent played it but im pretty sure thats what people say

# ? Feb 28, 2023 07:29

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Cuttlefush posted:

bioshock and all bioshocklikes suck rear end

Systemshockalikes, and they all suck except for system shock and it's sequel

# ? Feb 28, 2023 07:30

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

It's definitely a fallout like where you pick up every single bit of garbage and litter that isn't nailed down.

# ? Feb 28, 2023 07:30

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Slavvy posted:

Systemshockalikes, and they all suck except for system shock and it's sequel

Holy poo poo you just reminded me the remake is due out this March. Hopefully. Maybe. Unless its yet another false hope.

Wow that kickstarter was a little while ago.

# ? Feb 28, 2023 07:33

Cuttlefush: Jan 15, 2014; gotta have my purp

Slavvy posted:

Systemshockalikes, and they all suck except for system shock and it's sequel

correct. but because they suck they should be called bioshocklikes. so as to not sully the name

actually prey was pretty good

# ? Feb 28, 2023 07:34

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Never have hope is universally useful advice imo

# ? Feb 28, 2023 07:35

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Lostconfused posted:

It's definitely a fallout like where you pick up every single bit of garbage and litter that isn't nailed down.

Did anyone ever make a mod where the crafting recipes get changed to stuff like "one old sock, a discarded toilet brush and an empty tube of toothpaste" to craft ammo, along with changing the loot tables, just to poke fun at it?

# ? Feb 28, 2023 07:36

Cuttlefush: Jan 15, 2014; gotta have my purp

didnt fallout 3 have a gun that just took straight junk as ammo

# ? Feb 28, 2023 07:36

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Cuttlefush posted:

correct. but because they suck they should be called bioshocklikes. so as to not sully the name

actually prey was pretty good

Prey sucked because it was made by people who live at the office and made a game about the only place they know, so you're just walking through offices looking at emails. Also just devastatingly lazy enemy design and a boring plot.

# ? Feb 28, 2023 07:36

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

Slavvy posted:

Prey sucked because it was made by people who live at the office and made a game about the only place they know, so you're just walking through offices looking at emails. Also just devastatingly lazy enemy design and a boring plot.

also what happened to your avvie i liked the cute UFO

# ? Feb 28, 2023 07:43

Danann: Aug 4, 2013

Masno posted:

Prices in Mariupol, many locals write that the prices are about the same as in other parts of Russia

_{(from t.me/NovichokRossiya/25668, via tgsa)}

Looks pretty cheap when converted to dollars.

# ? Feb 28, 2023 07:43

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

They're taking away the tank

quote:

Since the anniversary of the beginning of the war in Ukraine, a destroyed Russian T-72 tank has stood in Berlin. According to the police, he has now been picked up again. Next stop is the Netherlands.

https://twitter.com/derspiegel/status/1630426334177693696

# ? Feb 28, 2023 07:44

izagoof: Feb 14, 2004; Grimey Drawer

Slavvy posted:

Systemshockalikes, and they all suck except for system shock and it's sequel

# ? Feb 28, 2023 07:45

Cuttlefush: Jan 15, 2014; gotta have my purp

Slavvy posted:

Prey sucked because it was made by people who live at the office and made a game about the only place they know, so you're just walking through offices looking at emails. Also just devastatingly lazy enemy design and a boring plot.

Well I've never really worked in an office so that's novel to me. I don't remember that much of the game being offices though.

# ? Feb 28, 2023 07:46

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Lostconfused posted:

They're taking away the tank

https://twitter.com/derspiegel/status/1630426334177693696

Let me guess they're going to send it to Ukraine as is lol

Hey you wanted tanks right? Have another one.

# ? Feb 28, 2023 07:47

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

crepeface posted:

also what happened to your avvie i liked the cute UFO

Some loser got me a NAFO dog and I'm too dumb to know how to restore my previous av so I just set it to blank.

# ? Feb 28, 2023 07:48

Nix Panicus: Feb 25, 2007

gradenko_2000 posted:

well, let's see if this theory of "grunts on the ground should be individually and personally culpable for their actions in war as violations of human rights" goes anywhere with the USMC being what it is

The US will never allow this to apply to their armed forces and will declare war on anyone who tries to apply this standard under any circumstances

# ? Feb 28, 2023 07:51

Gulping Again: Mar 10, 2007

Nix Panicus posted:

The US will never allow this to apply to their armed forces and will declare war on anyone who tries to apply this standard under any circumstances

# ? Feb 28, 2023 07:56

HiroProtagonist: May 7, 2007

CODChimera posted:

any actual war updates?

you have pundits itt creating content in real time what more do you want

# ? Feb 28, 2023 08:03

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Nix Panicus posted:

The US will never allow this to apply to their armed forces and will declare war on anyone who tries to apply this standard under any circumstances

Hell they won't even let their people be held criminally liable for things like hit & runs on Britain. Or similar.

quote:

The collision became the subject of a diplomatic dispute when Sacoolas left the country shortly after the incident and the US embassy said she had diplomatic immunity as the wife of a US agent working in the UK.[10][18][16][31] According to Sky News someone at the US embassy told Sacoolas to leave the UK.[32] The Washington Examiner reported that Jonathan Sacoolas did not work for the National Security Agency, and that the Sacoolas family lived in Northern Virginia in the area of the Central Intelligence Agency Langley headquarters.[33]

Wikipedia link. gently caress yeah. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death...less%20driving.

Don't worry though. It was finally resolved 3 years later. Justice was served!

quote:

LONDON � A court case involving a tragic traffic accident that became an international diplomatic dispute, requiring the attention of two U.S. presidents and three British prime ministers, concluded Thursday with a British judge sentencing American driver Anne Sacoolas to eight months� incarceration, with the term suspended, meaning essentially no jail time.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/12/08/anne-sacoolas-harry-dunn-sentenced/

# ? Feb 28, 2023 08:03

CODChimera: Jan 29, 2009

Cerebral Bore posted:

so first you cut off all points of entry to crimea, and then you launch a land campaign where you will presumably get the troops into crimea and keep them supplied by way of ancient magics or something

sounds like a mission for the Fellas

# ? Feb 28, 2023 08:29

BrotherJayne: Nov 28, 2019

So those dudes they've been beating and throwing into white vans, they're gonna capture Crimea? (Is it Crimea, or The Crimea?)

Like, I think if they drug my rear end into a van while I was trying to shop, there is a decent chance I'd try to swim home.

# ? Feb 28, 2023 08:38

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

Slavvy posted:

Some loser got me a NAFO dog and I'm too dumb to know how to restore my previous av so I just set it to blank.

there�s a way to restore an old av without buying it again?

# ? Feb 28, 2023 08:39

redneck nazgul: Apr 25, 2013

Endman posted:

there�s a way to restore an old av without buying it again?

you can sometimes just go back through the incremented file name and find them, other times it takes some work

# ? Feb 28, 2023 08:43

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# ? May 26, 2024 11:28

Comrade Koba: Jul 2, 2007

Lostconfused posted:

They're taking away the tank

https://twitter.com/derspiegel/status/1630426334177693696

man I wonder what it cost to drag an entire t-72 all the way from ukraine to berlin and the netherlands and how much refugee aid for actual ukrainians that money could have bought

# ? Feb 28, 2023 08:47

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Ukraine] EU: Nice minister, shame if something were to happen...

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