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Arivia posted:the classic example on video from most of our childhoods: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDWR5RkWRTY "our childhoods," oh dear  I suppose I wasn't thinking about vampires, which I have lots of references for. Hiding from spirits, ghosts, evil influences, I saw some video a while back by the beardy guy from the british museum about mesopotamians who had magic spells to try and get rid of annoying ancestors who were haunting them but that's not exactly "hiding from" them, more of an exorcism.
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Feb 27, 2023 19:17
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Leperflesh posted:"our childhoods," oh dear There's a classic about a monk given hospitality for the night by what turns out to be a pair of monsters and when they try to find him they can't because he's chanting a sutra and he just keeps chanting all night and leaves in the morning.
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Feb 27, 2023 19:26
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Leperflesh posted:"our childhoods," oh dear i run a discord server full of zoomers and one of them said she was hungry and i said "oh you're having a snack attack eh" and she looked at me like i'd said nonsense. we're old now, leperflesh.
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Feb 27, 2023 19:29
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Off the top of my head:
Some of those are based on real folk lore, (usually think that you would do on the way back from a funeral to keep the ghost from following you back home from the cemetery) some of them are based on stuff I've pulled from fiction, and some of them my source is I made it the gently caress up. I also specifically pitched ideas that did not require or rely on charms or materials, to head off the "but your character sheet doesn't say you have a pinch of grave dirt, nyeh he heh" bad DMing bullshit.
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Feb 27, 2023 19:57
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Isn't lifesense just infrared
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Feb 27, 2023 20:11
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I thought life sense was literally seeing life (i.e. positive energy).
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Feb 27, 2023 20:13
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Capfalcon posted:I thought life sense was literally seeing life (i.e. positive energy). The 4 negative Quasi Elemental Planes are Ash, Salt, Dust, and Vacuum. Putting a layer of Vacuum on your skin has obvious issues, but any of the 3 others should work more or less. Covering enough of your body in Ash or Dust should give you a chance to roll to evade detection by the spell.
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Feb 27, 2023 20:40
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Servetus posted:The 4 negative Quasi Elemental Planes are Ash, Salt, Dust, and Vacuum. Putting a layer of Vacuum on your skin has obvious issues, but any of the 3 others should work more or less. Covering enough of your body in Ash or Dust should give you a chance to roll to evade detection by the spell.
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Feb 27, 2023 21:14
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Arivia posted:i run a discord server full of zoomers and one of them said she was hungry and i said "oh you're having a snack attack eh" and she looked at me like i'd said nonsense. we're old now, leperflesh. yeah I was 24 when the mummy came out, e.g. I'm even older is what I'm saying GimpInBlack posted:Off the top of my head: I like this sort of thing, feels folklorish and less generic than "get some amulets" even though amulets seem to have featured in a lot of different ancient cultures. In particular I like "distract the dead" with some puzzle or maze or attracting thing that they can't resist, at least for a while.
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Feb 27, 2023 21:22
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carry a living Turritopsis dohrnii in a suitable watertight container. an immortal being by definition has infinite life and will blind any undead who tries to look at it. they'll know you're there, but they won't be able to pinpoint your location.
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Feb 27, 2023 21:25
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:carry a living Turritopsis dohrnii in a suitable watertight container. an immortal being by definition has infinite life and will blind any undead who tries to look at it. they'll know you're there, but they won't be able to pinpoint your location.
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Feb 27, 2023 21:27
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Leperflesh posted:What are some examples from the real world, for how to hide from the undead who can sense you (without eyes or wearing a mummy mask or w/e) purely because you're alive? I can't so much think of examples with the dead, but it's really just an extension of "Fee, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the blood of an Englishman!" only for living things instead of the English. The monster has some unique way of knowing you're there, so there's a ritual that the locals know to counter it. You wear red and chew on verbena when going into the deep woods because fairies find the color and smell repulsive, and if a partially masked woman hiding her face asks if you find her beautiful, you have to say she's average so she doesn't kill or maim you. It's sort of a "if you invent the ship, you invent the shipwreck" situation for imaginary fantasy worlds. It takes very little effort to write a few lines of flavorful text to let the Lich do a thematically appropriate "Who dares bring the pulse of life in my domain!" but once you've published those lines, you've created a world where characters who live in it are probably aware that the undead have alternative senses. So now that you've invented Lifesense, you've invented people who have to work around Lifesense as a matter of course. Ranger Bob encounters the undead every 2-3 years, so they're not common, but he's a capable professional and knows that if you're going into the Dark Fens, you gotta wear the ashes of a poplar tree for a full day beforehand or you might as well be announcing your presence to every specter and wight for miles around. If Fantasy Mike Ehrmantraut is going after a Necromancer, part of his approach takes into account that his target has Lifesense, and that has to be tricked, baffled, or disabled, and from his experience, poplar ash ain't gonna cut it, but here's what a necromancer's not gonna expect... It's part of the innate awkwardness of a group of people pretending to be people who live in a very different world and the game has to have some necessary hedges to abstract around it. But it's a problem best solved out of character, negotiating between the DM and the players what would be common or esoteric knowledge in the imaginary world the characters have lived their entire life within.
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Feb 27, 2023 21:30
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Precambrian posted:I can't so much think of examples with the dead, but it's really just an extension of "Fee, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the blood of an Englishman!" only for living things instead of the English. The monster has some unique way of knowing you're there, so there's a ritual that the locals know to counter it. Something similar to the 'counter' aspect would be the phrase Kuwabara kuwabara. It's basically "knock on wood" or "Swiper, No Swiping!"
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Feb 27, 2023 21:37
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Precambrian posted:I can't so much think of examples with the dead, but it's really just an extension of "Fee, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the blood of an Englishman!" only for living things instead of the English. The monster has some unique way of knowing you're there, so there's a ritual that the locals know to counter it. You wear red and chew on verbena when going into the deep woods because fairies find the color and smell repulsive, and if a partially masked woman hiding her face asks if you find her beautiful, you have to say she's average so she doesn't kill or maim you.
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Feb 27, 2023 21:40
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Splicer posted:I've cut it off where it gets iffy. You don't need to create "lifesense", you can just write down "Senses: Other (see description)". Sight, hearing, echolocation, these are all real world senses so having specific rules about them makes sense. Something like tremorsense is decent enough, a lot of things hunt by vibration despite us not having a specific word for it so throw something in there. But there's absolutely no reason why skeletons and vampires and lichs necessarily detect nearby humans using the same "Lifesense" and labelling it as such is silly. I think this is an arbitrary condemnation of the idea basically, that presumes some stuff. If you decide for your fiction that they all detect living people the same way, and give it a keyword, you can then conveniently use that keyword for a whole class of magic items or spells or a specific skill or whatever, and you can reference a standardized rule in the index and from monster descriptions etc. as previously discussed. Having each undead thing have its own, specific, potentially different from the others in subtle or significant ways, way of detecting you could add richness and flavor or it could just be irritating and unnecessary complication. So is "lifesense" necessary? Depends on the game. Keyworded rules aren't necessary if they almost never arise in play. They're handy if they arise very frequently. In a campaign that centers around the undead I could see it being a handy standardized rule to work with.
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Feb 27, 2023 21:48
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"Lifesense" is just the ability to sense either positive or negative energy. That all living things and undead(negative) things have.quote:Lifesense allows a monster to sense the vital essence of living and undead creatures within the listed range. The sense can distinguish between the positive energy animating living creatures and the negative energy animating undead creatures, much as sight distinguishes colors.
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Feb 27, 2023 21:49
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Precambrian posted:I can't so much think of examples with the dead, but it's really just an extension of "Fee, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the blood of an Englishman!" only for living things instead of the English. The monster has some unique way of knowing you're there, so there's a ritual that the locals know to counter it. You wear red and chew on verbena when going into the deep woods because fairies find the color and smell repulsive, and if a partially masked woman hiding her face asks if you find her beautiful, you have to say she's average so she doesn't kill or maim you. I mean, this all works in the narrative style. But PF2e is not ideal as a narrative style game (although just like 5e, it doesn't openly commit to either style in order that it can play both sides; and people do play it as a mixture or an alternation and enjoy it, so hey) I mean, yes, Knights of Lastwall does suggest that you can become hidden to Lifesense by smearing ash over your body.. but it's a 3-action activity tied to an Archetype Feat for the Knight Reclaimant Archetype and is likely to require at least 7th level (because it has a Master skill rank requirement). So the idea that it could be used by a character with none of these things as an explanation for Foil Senses or for just "choosing to take action to avoid special senses" seems unsatisfactory in terms of following game design intent. And other suggestions have consistency problems. Hide behind cover.. well, Tremorsense can detect you on the other side of a wall if you're generating vibrations on the ground, so can Lifesense? Dunno, the game doesn't bother to give that detail about how it works. That said if someone in a game I was running came up with the idea of using immortal or exceptionally long-lived creatures to Dazzle Lifesense then I'd probably give it to them because sod it, that is some UA-grade exologic.
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Feb 27, 2023 22:12
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Splicer posted:But there's absolutely no reason why skeletons and vampires and lichs necessarily detect nearby humans using the same "Lifesense" and labelling it as such is silly. Well, none of those creatures have lifesense, so... EDIT: They do all have darkvision, though. Your argument of "well it doesn't exist in the real world so every instance has to be completely unique in mechanics" should apply there too, right? Zurai fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Feb 27, 2023 |
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Feb 27, 2023 22:50
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Zurai posted:Well, none of those creatures have lifesense, so... 
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Feb 27, 2023 23:30
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Splicer posted:I was replying directly to a post which used those as examples. I stand by my argument about where the post in question's logic went cockeyed, and apparently Pathfinder stands with me The post you responded to didn't mention either vampires or skeletons. And no, Pathfinder doesn't stand with you, because your logic should apply equally well to darkvision, as I mentioned.
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Feb 27, 2023 23:33
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Leperflesh posted:What are some examples from the real world, for how to hide from the undead who can sense you (without eyes or wearing a mummy mask or w/e) purely because you're alive? a hand of glory is a thieves tool that makes you invisible to anyone you present it to. it's made from the dried/pickled hand of a hanged criminal and turned into a candle. presumably this works on undead as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_of_Glory
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Feb 28, 2023 00:19
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Just hide behind Gazerbeam's skeleton. Easy.
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Feb 28, 2023 03:34
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If only it were intelligencesense we’d all have nothing to worry about
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Feb 28, 2023 03:36
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Leperflesh posted:What are some examples from the real world, for how to hide from the undead who can sense you (without eyes or wearing a mummy mask or w/e) purely because you're alive? I'd go with an Apotropaic ward of some kind. The symbolism is still eye-based but you could argue that it extends to all evil senses.
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Feb 28, 2023 07:35
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just do some harrow nonagesimus cosplay maybe with sick shades if your biceps are huge
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Feb 28, 2023 09:01
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hyphz posted:. And other suggestions have consistency problems. Hide behind cover.. well, Tremorsense can detect you on the other side of a wall if you're generating vibrations on the ground, so can Lifesense? Dunno, the game doesn't bother to give that detail about how it works. Also, while not entirely clearly written Im absolutely positive the default is that vision types don't go through solid objects. Basically the default is that the rules for line of effect and line of sight always apply. And before you whine about me making stuff up: quote:t can't detect soulless bodies, constructs, or objects, and like most senses, it doesn't penetrate through solid objects. MadScientistWorking fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Feb 28, 2023 |
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Feb 28, 2023 15:56
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MadScientistWorking posted:As far as I can tell there are only two sense that penetrate through solid objects. Tremorsense and I swear that there's one lets you see ghosts in walls. "hearing" and "scent".
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Feb 28, 2023 16:12
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MadScientistWorking posted:Yeah its entirely specific about that. Tremorsense if its listed as an imprecise sense can only detect the presence of a creature and not its exact location meaning that you could be hidden. Tremorsense as a precise sense can detect a creature. Sixth sense is the one that lets you find ghosts and such in walls, but it's still hidden.
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Feb 28, 2023 17:45
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Seventh sense is the one that gives you access to the essence of your Cosmo.
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Feb 28, 2023 18:13
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What sense allows me to detect thetans?
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Feb 28, 2023 18:32
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Bottom Liner posted:If only it were intelligencesense we’d all have nothing to worry about TG as an Industry: My senses detect no intelligence within
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Feb 28, 2023 18:34
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TG as an Industry: Too stupid for ghosts to find us
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Feb 28, 2023 18:39
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Leperflesh posted:"our childhoods," oh dear I pulled up a file today in Dropbox and the app told me "Last edited 21 years ago." I don't know what the keyword should be for feeling ancient.
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Feb 28, 2023 20:12
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Isn't Dropbox only something like 15 years old?
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Feb 28, 2023 20:42
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Moving a file doesn't count as editing.
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Feb 28, 2023 20:48
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Starfinder Definitely Not 2e incoming: https://twitter.com/paizo/status/1630679767459438599
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Feb 28, 2023 22:51
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Lamuella posted:Starfinder Definitely Not 2e incoming: hey cool, hopefully a starfinder I won't find incredibly tedious to play and think about.
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Feb 28, 2023 22:57
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Hopefully they’re using the term “blending” in the sense of “reduced to a fine slurry whose original form is utterly obliterated.”
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Feb 28, 2023 22:57
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That's a suprise, because I honestly thought Starfinder was just a cover product for Pathfinder 2e, and not something they were going to keep supporting.
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Feb 28, 2023 23:04
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If it doesn't use the pf2e action point system it's DoA for most people anyways.
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Feb 28, 2023 23:05
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