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CommieGIR posted:That guy has a torniquet on his leg Paging Vaha to this thread
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Mar 1, 2023 19:29
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Set posted:Yesterday Yle released an interview with a unnamed Finnish officer who had gone to Ukraine to train Ukrainian troops. Considering this interview almost immediately lead to a rebuttal interview, also released on Yle, from the earlier mentioned Major General Toveri, as well as a docent in military sciences, it seems to have made some waves in certain circles. To summarize his opinions, Russia will most likely win because Ukrainian military leadership lacks initiative and do not understand mobile warfare. I am not sure how much of the stuff he presents is fact, and how much of it is just opinion from one officer, because he does seem to say some really stupid stuff as well. The larger article also contains a interview with another Finnish trainer in Ukraine, who corraborates some of the earlier opinions but is a lot more positive in the general, as well as an interview with a Finnish soldier who claims he has been fighting on the frontlines and shares the first officers opinions. I think this is just the right forum to get opinions on how much bullshit there is in here, and if there is any actual interesting nuggets of fact in there. I have seen parts of similar opinions pop up here and there before, but I don't think I've seen it all together coming from a individual who perhaps has a rather unique perspective on the situation. Also there is a lot of "the Finnish army training is the best in the world" which should be pretty funny for anyone who has experienced it first hand. I don't think Russia can 'win' at this rate, I also am unsure Ukraine can win either. But if Russia has demonstrated anything, they don't have the capability to resume a strong offensive that would result in a true win. At best, its going to stalemate.
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Mar 1, 2023 19:32
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Freedman made the point a few days ago that there's a reasonable line of logic that Putin's personal interest is now in keeping the war going for as long as he's alive. Can't win, can't offer a negotiated peace, can't lose.
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Mar 1, 2023 19:36
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CommieGIR posted:I don't think Russia can 'win' at this rate, I also am unsure Ukraine can win either. But if Russia has demonstrated anything, they don't have the capability to resume a strong offensive that would result in a true win. Yeah, the title of the article is a bit sensationalistic. It appears that the anonymous officer is giving more of a warning that unless training and doctrine changes, then the war will just grind to a standstill as you said. The thing I am not sure about if he is talking more from a point of frustration as his attempts to help aren't getting through, or if it is arrogance. The other officer at least says, that while the situation was really bad to start with it is going a lot better now. He even predicts a Ukrainian victory for this summer, which is pretty bold. I'll try to translate the rebuttal article soonish when I find the time.
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Mar 1, 2023 19:37
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Set posted:Yeah, the title of the article is a bit sensationalistic. It appears that the anonymous officer is giving more of a warning that unless training and doctrine changes, then the war will just grind to a standstill as you said. The thing I am not sure about if he is talking more from a point of frustration as his attempts to help aren't getting through, or if it is arrogance. The other officer at least says, that while the situation was really bad to start with it is going a lot better now. He even predicts a Ukrainian victory for this summer, which is pretty bold. I also don't understand the critique that Ukraine doesn't understand maneuver warfare, since some of their offensives have been almost textbook examples right down to strategic misdirection.
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Mar 1, 2023 19:43
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Set posted:Yeah, the title of the article is a bit sensationalistic. It appears that the anonymous officer is giving more of a warning that unless training and doctrine changes, then the war will just grind to a standstill as you said. The thing I am not sure about if he is talking more from a point of frustration as his attempts to help aren't getting through, or if it is arrogance. The other officer at least says, that while the situation was really bad to start with it is going a lot better now. He even predicts a Ukrainian victory for this summer, which is pretty bold. the situation of foreign trainers in Ukraine has been in a weird spot since foreign nations started just wholesale training units overseas and Ukraine figured out more of their training pipeline. The niche they (arguably) filled earlier in the war is less of a thing now. xpost from dnd thread quote:I'll also note that there's been a number of other people who went to Ukraine to train Ukrainians in an ad hoc way who seem to have left or otherwise found the experience unsatisfying as Ukrainian command just did not have some important role in the greater training system to slot them in to so they mostly ended up teaching TDF basics and hanging out in strip clubs. That was the exact drama shitshow that the Mozart group (group founded by an American to connect people with military skills with Ukrainian units in need of training and they had some people with very impressive resumes involved) imploded in. Particularly as formal training has increasingly been conducted in larger units overseas in actual training grounds, the needs for random high-maintenance western dudes to provide small scale training has by all accounts really fallen off. I probably sound dismissive but I don't want to suggest that it was completely worthless because teaching tdf guys which end of magazine goes in gun level stuff almost certainly was saving lives and was in demand at the time. Finland probably could and should set up a training program for Ukrainians, maybe even in Finland. Toveri is no doubt right that there is much useful knowledge that could go both ways. I also come back to roughly this point "'- Maybe Ukraine's real fighting ability is somewhere between this rather gloomy assessment and the smoothed image you get from the media when you look at the social media content of Ukrainians, Toveri says.'" Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Mar 1, 2023 |
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Mar 1, 2023 19:45
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CommieGIR posted:That guy has a torniquet on his leg Hypothermia will kick in as well if they stay in that hole any longer.
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Mar 1, 2023 19:45
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Notahippie posted:I also don't understand the critique that Ukraine doesn't understand maneuver warfare, since some of their offensives have been almost textbook examples right down to strategic misdirection. Yeah, there is some weird element of "they aren't doing it like I want it to be done!". I wonder if his complaints are more about the tactical level rather than the strategic? It is kinda weird considering the stuff we do know, and what the Ukrainians have managed to achieve. It can't all be "luck", as he says.
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Mar 1, 2023 19:49
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Jonny Nox posted:Wartranslated has a lot of good stuff on his Twitter today. I'd like to highlight this interview though: Some parts I found interesting in that interview. quote:
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Mar 1, 2023 19:51
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Herstory Begins Now posted:the situation of foreign trainers in Ukraine has been in a weird spot since foreign nations started just wholesale training units overseas and Ukraine figured out more of their training pipeline. The niche they (arguably) filled earlier in the war is less of a thing now. xpost from dnd thread Yeah, Toveri doesn't share the unnamed officer's opinions. Maybe part of the issue is the guy feels set aside, and he didn't get a hero's thanks? The second guy just seems like he might have a better rapport with the guys he is training, and might not be as dramatic, and thus has a better view of their capabilities. I mean I definitely saw both types of officer during my time in the FDF...
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Mar 1, 2023 19:53
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Taerkar posted:How many of those abandoned vehicles are subsequently destroyed/captured versus being recovered by Russia though? There's footage of Ukrainian drones dropping grenades into open hatches of abandoned vehicles near Vuhledar. I don't think many abandoned ones will be recovered by anyone. CommieGIR posted:That guy has a torniquet on his leg Wounded 2 days ago and still at the line with a tourniquet. 
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Mar 1, 2023 20:01
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Set posted:Yeah, there is some weird element of "they aren't doing it like I want it to be done!". I wonder if his complaints are more about the tactical level rather than the strategic? It is kinda weird considering the stuff we do know, and what the Ukrainians have managed to achieve. It can't all be "luck", as he says. The Kharkiv counteroffensive was most certainly not 'luck', every military analyst that followed it praised the operation as a masterclass in textbook maneuver warfare and field misdirection.
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Mar 1, 2023 20:05
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zone posted:The Kharkiv counteroffensive was most certainly not 'luck', every military analyst that followed it praised the operation as a masterclass in textbook maneuver warfare and field misdirection. Yup, that is true. The unnamed officer discounts a lot of really amazing strategic movement, and that is really odd. No wonder the interview got a rebuttal so fast! I don't think I've ever seen Yle do something like that before either, so that is interesting.
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Mar 1, 2023 20:10
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Set posted:Kenneth Grägg says that he works with three Ukrainian battalions on the eastern front in training, among other things. Is this the same guy from here? Jasper Tin Neck posted:That's kind of funny, because he's a serial fraudster.
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Mar 1, 2023 20:11
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McGavin posted:Is this the same guy from here? Jesus christ, yeah. loving hell Yle. I think by this point the entire article can be just ignored if they let that guy slip by and get a platform. In light of this information, I apologize for posting the article, and will translate the rebuttal tomorrow. Edit: This is exactly why this was the right place to post this. Good work noticing that! I'll add a warning to my post with the translated article. Set fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Mar 1, 2023 |
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Mar 1, 2023 20:17
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McGavin posted:Is this the same guy from here? What are the chances that this happens right after we talked about the jerk? Jfc lol Anyway, ricochet probably and the right angle, otherwise the guy wouldn't be alive https://twitter.com/TachankaKity/status/1630606675743834116
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Mar 1, 2023 20:52
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Power Khan posted:What are the chances that this happens right after we talked about the jerk? Jfc lol I was talking to a friend about the Yle article, who when I showed him the HS article, said that Grägg does updates on Facebook that seemed legitimate and he was surprised about it. I wasn't aware of Grägg from before, but the HS article is from last April! How did this slip by Yle? The guy has been in Ukraine for almost a year by this point? What the gently caress?
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Mar 1, 2023 21:03
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Power Khan posted:What are the chances that this happens right after we talked about the jerk? Jfc lol Not just “wouldn’t be alive”, probably not even a single piece.
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Mar 1, 2023 21:17
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Mar 1, 2023 22:18
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Praise RNGesus
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Mar 1, 2023 22:20
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Tuna-Fish posted:Wounded 2 days ago and still at the line with a tourniquet. But comrade- even if they have to withdraw, his leg will remain there as a defiant reminder of how far Russian forces have made it into Ukraine.
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Mar 1, 2023 22:46
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New meaning to stanky leg (cause gangrene got to it)
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Mar 1, 2023 22:51
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For some reason, it reminds me of an account from the Winter War. A Finnish Border Scout team had been observing a nonstop flow of Soviet forces across the border. After an hour or more, one of them starts to laugh. His team leader asks, "What could possibly be funny right now?" "Where will we bury all these dead Russians?" (Recounted from memory from the book The Winter War: The Russo- Finnish Conflict 39-40 by Engle/Paananen. I added that in case I am loving up some national heritage figure from our Finnish friends.)
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Mar 1, 2023 23:09
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bulletsponge13 posted:For some reason, it reminds me of an account from the Winter War. A Finnish Border Scout team had been observing a nonstop flow of Soviet forces across the border. After an hour or more, one of them starts to laugh. His team leader asks, "What could possibly be funny right now?" 
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Mar 1, 2023 23:14
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HonorableTB posted:The losses Russia took in capturing Vuhledar are being tallied and they lost more than 130 armored vehicles and an entire brigade of Marines.
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Mar 2, 2023 00:31
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Charlz Guybon posted:Why so many abandoned tanks? Surely most were damaged as well. How do they decide how to categorize the loss? Damaged would be hit, but withdrawn successfully, abandoned would be hit, and then the crew bailed back to Russian lines.
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Mar 2, 2023 00:49
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orange juche posted:Damaged would be hit, but withdrawn successfully, abandoned would be hit, and then the crew bailed back to Russian lines. The IFV losses make more sense in this context. Either it’s completely blown out, or abandoned in place and everyone tries to run back home. “Damaged, but able to withdraw” doesn’t seem to be a thing when it’s raining grenades from quadcopters or javelins.
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Mar 2, 2023 00:57
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Icon Of Sin posted:The IFV losses make more sense in this context. Either it’s completely blown out, or abandoned in place and everyone tries to run back home. “Damaged, but able to withdraw” doesn’t seem to be a thing when it’s raining grenades from quadcopters or javelins. IFVs don't like it when they hit AT mines
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Mar 2, 2023 01:14
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A damaged truck knows where the mines aren't because the abandoned truck knows where the mines were.
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Mar 2, 2023 01:23
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I'm assuming a lot of people here already watch H.I. Sutton's videos, but here's his most recent on how Russian special forces are using western equipment in Ukraine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krT9jDxFzwc
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Mar 2, 2023 03:41
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Nuclear Tourist posted:I'm assuming a lot of people here already watch H.I. Sutton's videos, but here's his most recent on how Russian special forces are using western equipment in Ukraine. uh I believe you will find it is the west using western gear on western pipelines 
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Mar 2, 2023 03:53
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Bret doing the Lord's work, dunking on Musk as hard as he possibly can https://twitter.com/BretDevereaux/status/1631042742846357504 https://twitter.com/BretDevereaux/status/1631042746512289795 https://twitter.com/BretDevereaux/status/1631042749523697668 https://twitter.com/BretDevereaux/status/1631042752610795520
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Mar 2, 2023 06:12
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bulletsponge13 posted:For some reason, it reminds me of an account from the Winter War. A Finnish Border Scout team had been observing a nonstop flow of Soviet forces across the border. After an hour or more, one of them starts to laugh. His team leader asks, "What could possibly be funny right now?" The one thing that bothers me with these Winter War anecdotes is that a lot of the Soviets sent to the front were actually Ukrainian and that was probably one of the reasons they didn't do so well in -40C conditions. 
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Mar 2, 2023 08:05
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Madurai posted:Praise RNGesus
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Mar 2, 2023 08:11
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Yeah Russia likes to forget that most of the eastern front was in Ukraine.
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Mar 2, 2023 08:33
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Set posted:I was talking to a friend about the Yle article, who when I showed him the HS article, said that Grägg does updates on Facebook that seemed legitimate and he was surprised about it. I wasn't aware of Grägg from before, but the HS article is from last April! How did this slip by Yle? The guy has been in Ukraine for almost a year by this point? What the gently caress? Thing is, it's not just the HS article. I remember that sorry rear end photo of him with the mug, and how Yle itself contacted him for comment at the time. The article can be found here https://yle.fi/a/3-12388318 and yeah not only a fraudster but did time for drug smuggling in Sweden, lol. All the more puzzling because when contacted by Yle he told them he spent his time trying to avoid any duty (why does Google translate this as "sniper"??) and "as far as he knows" he isn't a high ranking official. So yeah, what the gently caress? I think I'll contact Yle to see what the confusion is about.
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Mar 2, 2023 08:44
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psydude posted:Yeah Russia likes to forget that most of the eastern front was in Ukraine. While Ukraine suffered beyond measure during WW2 this is a severe and unnecessary exaggeration. Nothing that happens in Ukraine today erases the suffering of Leningrad, Stalingrad, and countless other Russian cites and towns. Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 08:48 on Mar 2, 2023 |
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Mar 2, 2023 08:46
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psydude posted:Yeah Russia likes to forget that most of the eastern front was in Ukraine. Everybody forgets about Belarus
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Mar 2, 2023 08:49
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https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1631220354587807746 Mirage 2000C don't strike me as an amazing option but I assume they'd have some newer gizmos, access to western payloads and break the reluctance to be the first. Plus France might have a reasonable number of them recently retired to keep handing over. Pablo Bluth fucked around with this message at 10:30 on Mar 2, 2023 |
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Mar 2, 2023 10:26
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Pablo Bluth posted:https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1631220354587807746 Hm gizmos like Storm Shadows Anyway, Vuhledar https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1631062703119712257 https://twitter.com/am_misfit/status/1631064534273388545 Power Khan fucked around with this message at 10:44 on Mar 2, 2023 |
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Mar 2, 2023 10:35
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