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Facebook Aunt posted:"Weapon Proficiency" is a level 1 general feat. It's easy to get martial weapon proficiency, but they don't work with sneak attack. You don't big martial weapon dice and sneak attack dice. the condition is agile or finesse though. I distinctly remember my rogue turned swashbuckler was into rapier's for that reason.
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Mar 1, 2023 01:48
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Facebook Aunt posted:"Weapon Proficiency" is a level 1 general feat. It's easy to get martial weapon proficiency, but they don't work with sneak attack. You don't big martial weapon dice and sneak attack dice. The Devs have repeatedly said that the Rogue is a case where they chose the shortlist of "Rapier, Sap, Shortsword, Shortbow" for purely thematic reasons and giving Rogues martial proficiency won't break anything. The Ruffian is still restricted to simple weapons and damage die below D8, and the rest of the rogue crowd is restricted to Agile/Finesse. With the exception of a pair of uncommon 1d8 weapons (Elven Curve Blade, Spiked Chain), we're still capping out at a D6 with Deadly D8 (so, a Rapier) for damage. Other than a few interesting reach options (Whip/Bladed Scarf), the vast majority of other Martial weapons a rogue might want are locked behind ancestries where you'll need a feat (or DM permission) to access them anyway. tl;dr, they should just errata Rogues to have Martial proficiency. It's fine. It'd be fine. Advanced weapons, however, are advanced for a reason, don't gently caress with that. Edit: If a Rogue sneak attacking with reach really bothers you that much (they can also sneak attack from that distance or further with a thrown weapon! or a Bow!), you can add a range restriction to sneak attack. You shouldn't though. Again, letting Rogues have martial weapons is fine.
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Mar 1, 2023 01:50
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Oh yeah I did give him Marshall proficiency for the spike chain I forgot rapoers are just part of the kit. Until I made my cool arranged swashbuckler his bad gimmick was being a rogue who swapped between a whole bunch of different weapons but with only 16 agility and 11 strength I was suffering
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Mar 1, 2023 01:53
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Speaking of the Skunk Bomb: is there a way to get the alchemist's Advanced Alchemy items to use your class DC?
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Mar 1, 2023 06:32
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VikingofRock posted:Speaking of the Skunk Bomb: is there a way to get the alchemist's Advanced Alchemy items to use your class DC? Level 5 class feature, Powerful Alchemy: quote:Powerful Alchemy
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Mar 1, 2023 06:43
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Chevy Slyme posted:Level 5 class feature, Powerful Alchemy: It looks like that just applies to Quick Alchemy (using an action and an infused reagent to create an alchemical consumable on the fly), and not Advanced Alchemy (using an infused reagent to create two identical alchemical items during your daily prep). Unless I am misreading it?
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Mar 1, 2023 07:04
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Toxicologists can use their class DC for any infused poison, not just ones made with Quick Alchemy, but other than that there's no way to use your class DC with Advanced Alchemy.
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Mar 1, 2023 07:09
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https://twitter.com/paizo/status/1630679767459438599 I was hoping for a 2.0 of Starfinder with the three action economy and all, but oh well. It is not a revised Corebook either, but more like a companion.
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Mar 1, 2023 08:36
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So I ended up seeing the dumb Treasure Vault dorf donk-dunker and now I'll be raiding vaults of abominations with a dwarf magus using one 
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Mar 1, 2023 08:52
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VikingofRock posted:It looks like that just applies to Quick Alchemy (using an action and an infused reagent to create an alchemical consumable on the fly), and not Advanced Alchemy (using an infused reagent to create two identical alchemical items during your daily prep). Unless I am misreading it? Quick Alchemy is a subset of advanced alchemy - it still uses your reagents, just trading efficiency for speed. That said, for what you mean, no, except for Toxicologists. You have to choose between abundance and power. Which is fair - I never found reagent count to be a huge issue on my Alch past level 5 or so anyway.
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Mar 1, 2023 13:28
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How do the pocket editions compare to the full hardcovers? Less art, smaller print? Do they just stick to the rules references and leave other stuff out?
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Mar 1, 2023 21:09
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bagrada posted:How do the pocket editions compare to the full hardcovers? Less art, smaller print? Do they just stick to the rules references and leave other stuff out? I believe they're literally identical in page layout and numbers, just everything is smaller? EDIT: wait they're thinner so... maybe not?
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Mar 1, 2023 21:22
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bagrada posted:How do the pocket editions compare to the full hardcovers? Less art, smaller print? Do they just stick to the rules references and leave other stuff out? It's the exact same, just shrunk. Look at one in person to see if you can read the smaller text before you buy your first one, but if you like it they leave nothing out.
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Mar 1, 2023 21:23
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The Golux posted:I believe they're literally identical in page layout and numbers, just everything is smaller? The paper stock is thinner and the lack of hardcovers actually cuts a lot of thickness too.
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Mar 1, 2023 21:45
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Thanks, I've got the 2e core pocket edition coming since the hardcover is nowhere to be found. My eyes are pretty terrible, but I'll see how it compares to reading the PDFs on my old kindle fire.
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Mar 1, 2023 22:32
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canepazzo posted:https://twitter.com/paizo/status/1630679767459438599 This looks like the kind of pf1e products they were coming out with to test 2.0 ideas
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Mar 1, 2023 22:39
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bagrada posted:Thanks, I've got the 2e core pocket edition coming since the hardcover is nowhere to be found. My eyes are pretty terrible, but I'll see how it compares to reading the PDFs on my old kindle fire. I've got the pocket size Dark Archive. Text is about the size it would be in a mass market paperback book. Maybe a little squinty, but not too bad.
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Mar 1, 2023 22:50
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S.J. posted:This looks like the kind of pf1e products they were coming out with to test 2.0 ideas Starfinder had a lot of 2.0 ideas in it before 2.0, like ancestry HP, levelled lists of class specific options, key ability score, stat caps for character creation, etc. Although I wish Themes had made it to 2.0 as some kind of optional rule, they were a cool concept.
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Mar 2, 2023 00:26
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Well, Pathfinder says you can't sell on Pathfinder Infinite if you use AI Art. That's too bad, but they're not going to be able to put the toothpaste back in the tube on this one. Eventually they'll capitulate.
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Mar 2, 2023 01:06
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Well, Pathfinder says you can't sell on Pathfinder Infinite if you use AI Art. That's too bad, but they're not going to be able to put the toothpaste back in the tube on this one. Eventually they'll capitulate. no one wants that gross poo poo it's a great policy
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Mar 2, 2023 01:11
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Well, Pathfinder says you can't sell on Pathfinder Infinite if you use AI Art. That's too bad, but they're not going to be able to put the toothpaste back in the tube on this one. Eventually they'll capitulate. Why would they capitulate? They're full of artists.
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Mar 2, 2023 01:14
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No-one can tell the difference, so it's really a moot point.
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Mar 2, 2023 01:49
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Anarcho-Commissar posted:Why would they capitulate? They're full of artists. Because the entire 3rd party industry is going to move toward AI art. We're basically at the Atari level - less than 5 year old - with it and it's already very powerful and getting better everyday. A special effects house just trained an AI to make their live action film footage into Vampire Hunter D anime. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljBSmQdL_Ow And for a five dollar subscription they'll teach you how to do it too. Uh oh. What do you think this is going to look like in five more years? I've actually looked into creating and publishing my own adventure and by far the most expensive part is the art, by a gigantic factor. I could do everything else - layout, editing, writing, print on demand - using open source software and good old elbow grease but I couldn't do art, and it's expensive. But now I absolutely could, and with a couple of hours of tutorials I was easily making perfectly acceptable art. It wasn't going to win me any awards, it wasn't going to blow me away like when I first saw Brom's Dark Sun covers, but it was acceptable. (and if the adventure had done well, I was going to pay to have almost all of it replaced with real art from some very talented folks online. I actually did want real human art done to my spec, but I wanted to cover my costs first). Anyway, this is hot stuff, everyone I've shown it to loves it. All my new players have AI-generated character pics and they were happy about it. And it's out there now. Even if they pass laws it won't matter a bit; your art will get scraped, fed into the model, and used to generate stuff through backchannels. Unless you don't post it on the 'Net - in which case, good luck with that business model. There's absolutely going to be a service within a decade that allows you to credit AI art to a human being, to evade this kind of rule. Boba Pearl posted:No-one can tell the difference, so it's really a moot point. It's true, there's a couple of AI Detectors online and I've uploaded some of my better images to them, they don't get caught. It's only going to get better.
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Mar 2, 2023 03:44
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The AI hype cycle is loving tedious but he's right. It's not going to get better. Artists/writers of every stripe have to start adapting now because the bottom levels are only going to get harder to live in. I'm not buying the idea that in 5-10 years we'll all be living on Moon World because that's always the promise and it's always bullshit, but it is true that Pandora's Box is open and everything now is some level of dealing with it. And yeah it will make entering the field of self-publishing a lot easier, because as much as we all hate to admit it the bar for "good enough" with art for most consumers is a lot lower than we'd like it to be. Who cares if it all looks like shaved ballsack made out of septic tank refuse? It's cheap and easy and looks good enough. What I want to know is what sorts of text garbage rules are going to happen-- if it's not out there already someone will definitely be posting a "We played a TTRPG made entirely by rules from an AI!" soon.
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Mar 2, 2023 03:58
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mind the walrus posted:And yeah it will make entering the field of self-publishing a lot easier, because as much as we all hate to admit it the bar for "good enough" with art for most consumers is a lot lower than we'd like it to be. Who cares if it all looks like shaved ballsack made out of septic tank refuse? It's cheap and easy and looks good enough. As someone who's dabbled in self-publishing non-RPG books, a good book cover with commercial reuse rights can easily cost over $1000. I'd imagine interior art is less expensive (smaller, usually less complicated, possibly doesn't have a background, etc), but even like a 32-page RPG book is going to need like 6-8 additional pieces of art. You're looking at several thousand dollars minimum if you want to have actual quality stuff. You can always go cheaper, but in my experience, you almost always get what you pay for. The good commission artists' prices are self-regulating in that they can't charge too little or they get swamped. It's a pretty big barrier to entry, and AI art pretty much obliterates the barrier. There's no stuffing that genie back in the bottle.
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Mar 2, 2023 04:10
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I should say right now that I'm very sympathetic to artist that this is having an effect on, but I'm just being realistic. And I'm not hyping it. That anime vid has a lot of problems, a regular person using AI has a lot of problems, but that's only going to be eliminated. These are garbage first-generation tools and first-generation models and they're still pumping out some shocking stuff. The idea that you're just going to say "no" to this is not feasible. Zurai posted:It's a pretty big barrier to entry, and AI art pretty much obliterates the barrier. There's no stuffing that genie back in the bottle. The ballpark price of me getting art on 2/3rds of the pages of my 48 page adventure - not including cover, and not including maps - was 3k, and asking around that was a pretty good deal. This was going to be a combination of full color monster art for the Bestiary in the back, some B&W line drawings of props and locations for inserts, five full color npc portrait busts, and 3 full-color half-page spreads for setpiece scenes. My INITIAL order, where I really went whole hog and had art on every page (and had no idea how much stuff cost), and more of it in color, was over 5k. Edit: We're already getting a "you draw a stick figure in the pose you want and the AI turns it into a picture" stuff, this is only going to evolve. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFZgPyCJflE And right now it takes people weeks of knowledge and tools to do stuff like in this video, but that won't last: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jcwtAFXtq0 Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Mar 2, 2023 |
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Mar 2, 2023 04:11
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I'm entirely fine with Paizo not cutting off an income stream for artists tbh.
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Mar 2, 2023 06:27
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Lamuella posted:I'm entirely fine with Paizo not cutting off an income stream for artists tbh.
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Mar 2, 2023 06:38
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"I'm not hyping it, it's just really great and amazing and look at all this wonderful stuff it does already and me and my whole group love using it, that's all." Also, Lamuella posted:I'm entirely fine with Paizo not cutting off an income stream for artists tbh.
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Mar 2, 2023 06:54
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AI art is fine for personal use but it's a good move for Paizo to avoid it at minimum until the legal structures of how it works with IP/copyright/etc are ironed out it's also important to get ahead of the possibility of people spamming affiliated 3rd party sellers with low quality mass produced stuff, both for brand image purposes and to protect the people actually making 3rd party content
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Mar 2, 2023 07:30
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what does Casandalee have to say about AI art
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Mar 2, 2023 07:31
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Andrast posted:what does Casandalee have to say about AI art iron gods sequel where the technic league floods the grand bazaar with AI art
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Mar 2, 2023 07:57
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mind the walrus posted:The AI hype cycle is loving tedious but he's right. It's not going to get better. Artists/writers of every stripe have to start adapting now because the bottom levels are only going to get harder to live in. Not to carry on this derail, but the easiest way to push a lot of this away is for the U.S. Copyright Office and future Copyright Laws to continue to stand firm that materials can only be copyrighted by human beings - which is already case law. Just last month someone attempted to force through a comic using self written text and layout, but with AI created images. They were told that while they could be granted a copyright on the text and the layout, as that was done by an actual person, the images on each page were not copyrightable meaning anyone could legally come in, adjust word bubble placement and write in their own text. Even if a hell future happens where AI is granted copyright protections, it would be whatever AI you used that still owns the copyright, not you as the person typing in prompts and not even the person who programmed and owns the AI. And if an AI is conscious enough to legally sign over ownership on an image it created, then we are probably at the point where ethical talks about how we use AI needs to happen. AI is being pushed heavily right now because its the next dumb shiny new toy people think they can make a buck off of by being there at the start, same poo poo as with crypto and then NFTs after that. Once there is any serious legal push back (such as reaffirming that, no, be it the text generators or image generators, none of this non-human created works can be copyrighted) and actual regulations (would love to see auditing of these companies and developers either proving that they did not build their models on scrapped stolen art or some of the other bizarre and probably illegal poo poo like questionable images from people's medical records being forced to dump their models and start from scratch with auditing to show that the new ones are not infringing on people's rights - if they want to train an AI on human art, they can hire artists to produce art to feed to the machine), then its gonna die pretty quickly as there isn't any money in it. Lamuella posted:I'm entirely fine with Paizo not cutting off an income stream for artists tbh. drat straight. As an artist and short story writer myself, it is disheartening to see people coming out of the woodwork hooting about how AI is the future and there is gonna be no place for humans in artistic fields in the future. I get told on a weekly basis that I should just stop drawing now by these people and it just blows my mind that like, the only reason any of this works as well as it does is because it functions off the stolen hard work of artists everywhere who put in the effort to learn a skill. Like literally mind-boggling the amount of hatred and vitriol that gets sent towards artists nowadays for daring to ask for compensation for work done, like artists are some kind of elite caste in society and AI is the little guy bringing them down. "Starving Artist" has been a saying for ages for a reason. Boba Pearl posted:Not to carry on this derail, but I would like to lie a ton about poo poo I know nothing about, and prove why everyone hates artists. Yeah, because IP and Copyright totally doesn't exist just because someone shares something online, like feeding a machine model art is totally the same as another human getting inspiration or learning something by observing another piece of art, like how it totally hasn't been proven that you can get most of these AI art generators to spit out barely altered copies of the art they have been trained on, like how David Holz, the founder of Midjourney, totally didn't admit in December of 2022 that he used millions of images without artist's consent because he was too lazy to track down the artists behind the art and too cheap to hire artists who would grant him ownership of new pieces to feed to his machine, because gently caress artists am I right? Gotta get this all out of the doors so the poor AI developers can monetize monetize monetize, like how the founder of Stability AI totally didn't openly admit to bypassing firewalls in order to access private data so they had even more material to feed their models and that they would do it again because there is just such a trove of new material to feed their models with and only started walking back their statement and making excuses when people pointed out they were admitting to committing crimes. Because these generators can totally do what they do in a vacuum without requiring to be trained on the work of others, just slap one together with zero model data and type in those prompts and it totally work unlike humans who totally could never create something without first seeing another authors work to copy. Thanks for proving my point regarding the proponents of ai generative models.  https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/AI-COPYRIGHT-decision.pdf You can read the copyright office's decision right there, current case law that has been argued up to and in front of the supreme court in the US says only a human can be granted copyright. ----- Anyway, apologies for the rant, this has been a personal topic that has affected close friends and myself and I generally cannot understand how anyone could enjoy TTRPGs as a hobby - one that requires such a great deal of human imagination to create and participate in - be upset with Paizo on their stance on this and think that AI is gonna be good for TTRPGs. In actual Pathfinder discussion, as much as I love Abomination Vaults, the megadungeon vibe and being stuck in the same town is starting to wear thin as a GM. The two groups I run are a decent ways into book 2 and we plan on wrapping things up, but man am I excited to move onto either Bloodlords or Gatewalkers (which from the other GMs I talk to, sounds amazing). Though I suspect that my players are going to want to hold onto their current characters a bit long, so hopefully the Stolen Fate adventure path is just as good as Gatewalkers as that would probably be the easiest 11-20 game to switch into from AV. Enzer fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Mar 2, 2023 |
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Mar 2, 2023 08:51
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Not to carry on this derail, but I would like to lie a ton about poo poo I know nothing about, and prove why everyone hates artists. And the art's not stolen, you posted it on the web for people to see, and someone or something learned off of it. You can't actually copyright a style. Boba Pearl fucked around with this message at 10:10 on Mar 2, 2023 |
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Mar 2, 2023 10:02
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Boba Pearl posted:Not to carry on this derail, but I would like to lie a ton about poo poo I know nothing about, and prove why everyone hates artists. lol SYQ
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Mar 2, 2023 10:26
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Maybe you should have learned to do a job that pays instead of whining about how other people make art? No-one's lamenting failed twitch streamers because they don't get to sit around and play video games for a living. Sorry your hobby isn't marketable.
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Mar 2, 2023 10:34
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After all, hunching over a computer for 10 hours a day, laboring to meet deadlines for clients while doing highly technical work that required years of training is basically like a fun hobby and comparable to sitting around all day playing videogames. (unless you're a professional computer toucher, then it's basically like you're a coal miner) Why pay artists at all? It's not a real job, they do this for fun! They should be thankful for the exposure really. Scoss fucked around with this message at 11:18 on Mar 2, 2023 |
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Mar 2, 2023 11:14
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Well if they're the same I'd choose the one that pays six figures.
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Mar 2, 2023 11:22
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Love to talk about the second edition of the Pathfinder roleplaying game.
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Mar 2, 2023 11:22
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Lamuella posted:Love to talk about the second edition of the Pathfinder roleplaying game. It was a really brave decision to establish Casmaron as an entire continent developed by chatGPT, but it's made for some really consistent (if incredibly generic) adventures
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Mar 2, 2023 11:27
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