[Ukraine] EU: Nice minister, shame if something were to happen...

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Ukraine] EU: Nice minister, shame if something were to happen...

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Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

https://twitter.com/reshetz/status/1630591900498395136

putin...good???

# ? Mar 2, 2023 04:37

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# ? May 26, 2024 00:11

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

pole dancing is a legitimate sport and hobby lots of people do it without stripping shame on that person for their SWERF behavior

# ? Mar 2, 2023 04:40

Turtle Watch: Jul 30, 2010; by Games Forum

Cool that Putin is practicing standup comedy but why does he need such a big mic stand?

# ? Mar 2, 2023 04:40

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

Endman posted:

I told you guys it was like Przemysl!! I told you!!!

See when I went to look this up all I found that it was supposed to be a town that the whermacht failed to take during barbarossa, and it wasn't very helpful at all.

# ? Mar 2, 2023 04:40

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Does anyone have insight into the different camps of the US ruling class? I ask because you can�t do Cold War poo poo and have globalized neoliberalism, right? Like, it makes no sense to deindustrialize, have a consumer economy, have all of the things that keep both the economy and society running made in China (and resources from Russia) and consider those opposing camps that must be cut off.

So my thinking is, maybe there are competing groups within the executive, and I�ll just say ruling class generally. Those who understand global finance capital requires a close relationship with China, at least the free movement of goods and money, and those rooted in old school geopolitics. Trying to move in both directions isn�t just self defeating, it�s impossible.

# ? Mar 2, 2023 04:41

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1631002749205708817

russias never going to get kazakhstan to like them unless it learns the fine art of negging

# ? Mar 2, 2023 04:44

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

Lostconfused posted:

See when I went to look this up all I found that it was supposed to be a town that the whermacht failed to take during barbarossa, and it wasn't very helpful at all.

it was a WW 1 battle between russia and the german empire

# ? Mar 2, 2023 04:44

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

speng31b posted:

jazerus and dreylad have been extremely quick to uptake on buttons for anyone posting here clearly just interested in being a freak and no interest in discussion. i think it'll be okay

Dreylad posted:

honestly things have gone better than i had hoped so far. either way we'll post through it together.

im not worried, i think it'll be awesome

# ? Mar 2, 2023 04:44

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Al-Saqr posted:

pole dancing is a legitimate sport and hobby lots of people do it without stripping shame on that person for their SWERF behavior

yet another good Al-Saqr take

Frosted Flake posted:

Does anyone have insight into the different camps of the US ruling class? I ask because you can�t do Cold War poo poo and have globalized neoliberalism, right? Like, it makes no sense to deindustrialize, have a consumer economy, have all of the things that keep both the economy and society running made in China (and resources from Russia) and consider those opposing camps that must be cut off.

So my thinking is, maybe there are competing groups within the executive, and I�ll just say ruling class generally. Those who understand global finance capital requires a close relationship with China, at least the free movement of goods and money, and those rooted in old school geopolitics. Trying to move in both directions isn�t just self defeating, it�s impossible.

you'll want to look up "The Yankee and Cowboy War", by Carl Oglesby

# ? Mar 2, 2023 04:46

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

good news everyone

https://twitter.com/WarintheFuture/status/1631062393584488448

ukraine is winning the most important battles of all the tankie battles

# ? Mar 2, 2023 04:47

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

Some Guy TT posted:

https://twitter.com/reshetz/status/1630591900498395136

putin...good???

https://twitter.com/AnarchoTerran/status/1630594467513225216?s=20
Steafan Dubhuidhe (comrade/comrades)
@AnarchoTerran

Internationalist, anarchist. I support #NAFO but I am not a member of NAFO. My posts represent my own views only.

# ? Mar 2, 2023 04:47

Horseshoe theory: Mar 7, 2005

Al-Saqr posted:

also america is super gonna start world war 3

https://twitter.com/azgeopolitics/status/1631049617507770369?s=46&t=kY7HKwmb1RBg9U186lxtbg

Why would China give a poo poo when at least half of their companies are already under some sort of US sanction? :thunk:

# ? Mar 2, 2023 04:48

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Frosted Flake posted:

Does anyone have insight into the different camps of the US ruling class? I ask because you can’t do Cold War poo poo and have globalized neoliberalism, right? Like, it makes no sense to deindustrialize, have a consumer economy, have all of the things that keep both the economy and society running made in China (and resources from Russia) and consider those opposing camps that must be cut off.

So my thinking is, maybe there are competing groups within the executive, and I’ll just say ruling class generally. Those who understand global finance capital requires a close relationship with China, at least the free movement of goods and money, and those rooted in old school geopolitics. Trying to move in both directions isn’t just self defeating, it’s impossible.

The failsons of the failsons of the failsons are at the wheel and none of them have any clue about any of this

# ? Mar 2, 2023 04:54

lobster shirt: Jun 14, 2021

Al-Saqr posted:

it was a WW 1 battle between russia and the german empire

przemysl was a battle between russia and austria-hungary

# ? Mar 2, 2023 04:58

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

https://twitter.com/McFaul/status/1631125879656161280

oh does this mean they support ukraine joining nato?

# ? Mar 2, 2023 05:00

fizzy: Dec 2, 2022; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Round-up of news of the day

President of Ukraine

quote:

https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/cya-zima-bula-duzhe-skladnoyu-ale-mi-zmogli-zabezpechiti-ukr-81373

This winter was very difficult, but we managed to provide Ukraine with energy and heat - address by President Volodymyr Zelenskyy
1 March 2023 - 21:44

�

Today, I also held a long, detailed conference call with all those who are in charge of various areas of state defense. The military, the Security Service, the Main Intelligence Directorate, foreign intelligence, the MIA, other government officials, the Office.

We keep each frontline direction under control. Khortytsia, Tavria, Odesa, North - there were reports on the situation over the past day.

In addition to the frontline directions, we are also paying attention to the frontline areas. Those cities and districts that are subjected to Russian shelling every day and night. To a deliberate terror. Nikopol and other communities of the Dnipropetrovsk region, Zaporizhzhia, Kherson and the region, the frontline part of Donbas, Kharkiv and the region, Sumy and Chernihiv regions.

�

Reuters

quote:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-clings-bakhmut-time-may-be-running-out-russians-advance-2023-03-02/

Ukraine clings to Bakhmut but time may be running out as Russians advance
March 2, 2023

March 2 (Reuters) - Ukrainian forces hung onto their positions in the ruined eastern city of Bakhmut early on Thursday under constant attack from Russian troops seeking to claim their first major victory for more than half a year.

Russia says seizing Bakhmut would open the way to fully controlling the rest of the strategic Donbas industrial region bordering Russia, one of the main objectives of its invasion a year ago on Feb. 24.

Ukraine says Bakhmut has limited strategic value but has nevertheless put up fierce resistance. Not everyone in Ukraine is convinced that defending Bakhmut can go on indefinitely.

"I believe that sooner or later, we will probably have to leave Bakhmut. There is no sense in holding it at any cost...," Ukranian member of parliament Serhiy Rakhmanin said on Ukrainian NV radio on Wednesday night.

"But for the moment, Bakhmut will be defended with several aims - firstly, to inflict as many Russian losses as possible and make Russia use its ammunition and resources."

No lines of defence should be allowed to collapse, Rakhmanin said, and "there are two ways to approach this - an organised retreat or simple flight. And we cannot allow flight to take place under any circumstances."

The battle for Bakhmut began about seven months ago, but in recent weeks Russian advances have left defenders fighting on three sides, with their only way out to the west.

Thousands of civilians remain inside the ruined city, which had a pre-war population of around 70,000.

'UNDER CONTROL'

A statement on Wednesday night by the General Staff of the Ukrainian Armed Forces said the Russians were attempting to advance on Bakhmut "without interruption" and President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said his forces "are keeping each sector of the front under control."

Russian forces were making preparations for new attacks in central Zaporizhzhia region and on the southern front in the Kherson region, the military statement said. More than 40 towns and villages were shelled, it said, including the regional centre of Kherson and other towns on the west bank of the Dnipro River, abandoned by Russian forces in November.

Reuters was unable to immediately verify the latest battlefield accounts.

New York Times

quote:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/01/world/europe/ukraine-russia-bakhmut-reinforcements.html

Ukraine Reinforces Embattled Bakhmut, but Mission Is Unclear
By Matthew Mpoke Bigg and Edward Wong
March 1, 2023
Updated 7:57 p.m. ET

Ukraine is sending reinforcements to the devastated eastern city of Bakhmut, leading more troops into a bloody crucible that has already cost both sides staggering losses, where Russian forces have gradually tightened their grip.

A Ukrainian deputy defense minister, Hanna Maliar, said Wednesday that her government had begun deploying new fighters to Bakhmut, site of the most protracted battle of the war, but she did not say how many were being sent. More critically, Ms. Maliar, speaking on Ukrainian television, did not say what their role would be, in a battle that has left the ravaged Bakhmut a city in name only.

The new forces could be used to dig in and try to hold onto the territory, exacting the maximum casualties on the Russians, who have lost thousands of troops in repeated, futile assaults on Ukrainian positions. They might be used to tie down Russian forces so they cannot redeploy to other battles. Or they might be there to offer logistical support for Ukraine�s long-rumored withdrawal from Bakhmut.

That last explanation seemed to gain some ground this week when another Ukrainian official, the economic adviser Alexander Rodnyansky, laid out the challenges in an interview with CNN.

�Our military is obviously going to weigh all of the options,� he said. �So far, they have held the city but, if need be, they will strategically pull back. Because we are not going to sacrifice all of our people just for nothing.�

Moscow turned its attention to Bakhmut last summer, but Ukrainian soldiers have held out there for months, even as Russian forces have gradually captured surrounding territory, nearly cutting off the city. Russia has rushed large numbers of troops to the front lines, including many newly mobilized, ill-trained recruits, giving Ukraine opportunity to inflict thousands of casualties � though at a high cost to its own fighters.

�The most difficult situation is still Bakhmut,� Ukraine�s president, Volodymyr Zelensky, said in his nightly address on Tuesday. A day earlier, he said Ukrainian forces were dangerously exposed.

�The enemy is constantly destroying everything that can be used to protect our positions, to gain a foothold and ensure defense,� Mr. Zelensky said.

Video recorded in the city shows apocalyptic scenes of buildings reduced to rubble or charred, hollowed-out shells, with streets marked by the burned-out remains of vehicles but few signs of human life.

In an audio message released on social media on Wednesday, the head of the Wagner mercenary force that has spearheaded the Russian offensive in Bakhmut said there was no sign that Ukrainian forces were withdrawing from the city.

The skirmishing was not just on the battlefield.

Guardian

quote:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...f08112894f385f6

Germany to increase ammunition production to support Ukraine, says Scholz
11h ago, 16.38 GMT

Germany will ramp up ammunition production as well as ensure it has enough replacement parts and repairs capacity in its defence industry to better support Ukraine, the chancellor, Olaf Scholz, has said.

Scholz, after a meeting with Latvian prime minister, Kri�jānis Kariņ�, said:

"The now one-year lasting support of Ukraine has also brought us the knowledge that enables us to ensure that there is also a sufficient supply, with spare parts, that we have created repair capacities for the weapons used in the war, at locations outside of Ukraine."

He added:

"We will ensure that the production of ammunition is advanced, both for the weapons that we have supplied ourselves and those that come from classic stocks that are available in eastern Europe.

The German leader vowed on Friday to support Ukraine �as strongly and as long as necessary�, adding that German aid to Ukraine, for financial and humanitarian support as well as weapons, had totalled more than �14bn (�12.4bn) so far."

CNN

quote:

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/01/business/russia-oil-shadow-fleet/index.html

A mysterious fleet is helping Russia ship oil around the world. And it�s growing
By Julia Horowitz, CNN
Published 5:28 AM EST, Wed March 1, 2023

Russian oil is still finding its way to buyers around the world. But even those who spend their days tracking its movement across oceans struggle to work out exactly who is ferrying it.

As Western sanctions against Russia have escalated over its invasion of Ukraine, more ships have joined an existing fleet of mysterious tankers, ready to facilitate Russia�s oil exports.

Industry insiders estimate the size of that �shadow� fleet at roughly 600 vessels, or about 10% of the global number of large tankers. And numbers continue to climb.

Who owns and operates many of these ships remains a puzzle. As trading Russian oil became more complex over the past year, many Western shippers withdrew their services. New, obscure players swooped in, with shell companies in Dubai or Hong Kong involved in some cases. Some bought boats from Europeans, while others tapped old, creaking ships that might have otherwise ended up in the scrapyard.

�You�ve gone deeper into the dark arts,� a senior executive at an oil trading firm told CNN, referring to this opaque network.

The under-the-radar fleet has increased in importance as Moscow tries to avoid working with Western shippers, and as customers in China and India supplant those in Europe, now banned from purchasing seaborne Russian oil and refined products such as diesel. Delivery to more distant buyers requires additional boats � and ship owners willing to deal with added complexity and legal risk, especially after Group of Seven countries imposed price caps on Russian oil.

The expansion of the shadow fleet highlights the dramatic changes Russia�s war has brought to the global oil market. In its bid to keep operating, the world�s second-largest crude exporter has reshaped decades-old trading patterns and split the world�s energy system in two.

�There�s the fleet that is not doing any Russian business, and then there�s the fleet that�s almost exclusively doing Russian business,� said Richard Matthews, head of research at EA Gibson, an international shipbroker. Only a few ships, he added, are doing a �bit of both.�

�Gray ships� and �dark ships�

As Europe has weaned itself off Russian energy, buyers in Asia have cut deals. China boosted imports of Russian oil to 1.9 million barrels per day on average in 2022, up 19% from 2021, according to the International Energy Agency. India ramped up purchases even more sharply, logging an 800% increase to an average of 900,000 barrels per day.

Russia�s oil exports to China and India both hit record highs in January after Europe�s ban on seaborne Russian oil took effect, according to Kpler, a data and analytics company. Exports to Turkey, another top customer, also continued apace. (The ban on refined oil products did not kick in until February.)

...

# ? Mar 2, 2023 05:02

Starsfan: Sep 29, 2007; This is what happens when you disrespect Cam Neely

Soooo given that Ukraine was/is widely agreed to have more troops at Bakhmut than Russia, better trained troops, better equipment (courtesy of NATO), better intelligence (courtesy of the US), prepared defensive positions and the mandate of heaven what explains this apparent loss of ground? they just didn't want it as much?

# ? Mar 2, 2023 05:11

Dreylad: Jun 19, 2001

Frosted Flake posted:

Does anyone have insight into the different camps of the US ruling class? I ask because you can�t do Cold War poo poo and have globalized neoliberalism, right? Like, it makes no sense to deindustrialize, have a consumer economy, have all of the things that keep both the economy and society running made in China (and resources from Russia) and consider those opposing camps that must be cut off.

So my thinking is, maybe there are competing groups within the executive, and I�ll just say ruling class generally. Those who understand global finance capital requires a close relationship with China, at least the free movement of goods and money, and those rooted in old school geopolitics. Trying to move in both directions isn�t just self defeating, it�s impossible.

US has been doing it for decades. It's pretty easy to do when most of the anti-China stuff is rhetorical or feeds the MIC. I suspect both the US and China find the mutual antagonism useful domestically.

There's a million ways to divide the ruling class in the US, but in international relations there was a constant tension between the realists and the ideologues and with the collapse of the USSR it seems like the ideologues have generally led the way

# ? Mar 2, 2023 05:15

fizzy: Dec 2, 2022; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Starsfan posted:

Soooo given that Ukraine was/is widely agreed to have more troops at Bakhmut than Russia, better trained troops, better equipment (courtesy of NATO), better intelligence (courtesy of the US), prepared defensive positions and the mandate of heaven what explains this apparent loss of ground? they just didn't want it as much?

It is commonly attributed to Russia's usage of human wave attacks.

quote:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/russias-human-wave-attacks-are-another-stepinto-hell
Analysis by Andreas Kluth | Bloomberg
February 14, 2023 at 8:51 a.m. EST

�Keep going until you�re killed.� That�s what Andrei Medvedev recalls being told by his commanders at the Wagner Group, a private Russian mercenary army that recruits people like him out of prison to wage the Kremlin�s war of aggression against Ukraine.

Medvedev is unusual in that he not only lived to tell the tale but somehow escaped to Norway. Most others in his situation aren�t so lucky. As the war approaches its first anniversary, increasing numbers of Russians in Ukraine � both regular soldiers and Wagner mercenaries � are being treated by their superiors as �cannon fodder.� Barely trained and often badly armed, they�re ordered to throw themselves at the more hardened Ukrainian defenders, in a cynical tactic based on overwhelming the enemy with sheer numbers.

Another name for this approach is �human-wave attacks.� They�ve been a tragically recurring feature of modern warcraft � from the trenches of World War I to the Soviet onslaught against the Finns and Germans in World War II, from the Chinese assaults on South Korean and American troops in the Korean War to the Iranian charges against the Iraqis in the 1980s.

# ? Mar 2, 2023 05:17

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

^ damnit fizzy

Starsfan posted:

Soooo given that Ukraine was/is widely agreed to have more troops at Bakhmut than Russia, better trained troops, better equipment (courtesy of NATO), better intelligence (courtesy of the US), prepared defensive positions and the mandate of heaven what explains this apparent loss of ground? they just didn't want it as much?

russia used enslaved human wave attacks (wagner) kinda like in 300

crepeface has issued a correction as of 05:21 on Mar 2, 2023

# ? Mar 2, 2023 05:17

HiroProtagonist: May 7, 2007

supersnowman posted:

Congratulation. You played yourself.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

lol

# ? Mar 2, 2023 05:18

HiroProtagonist: May 7, 2007

speng31b posted:

are you gonna be mad if i give you a sixer for this pun, because it really feels like you should get a sixer for this pun

that joke was already made though off the jump re: the probe reason

# ? Mar 2, 2023 05:20

Starsfan: Sep 29, 2007; This is what happens when you disrespect Cam Neely

If human wave attacks can overcome all of those other factors it kind of seems like everything we've been doing in the west with our militaries has been a tremendous waste of time and money.

# ? Mar 2, 2023 05:21

Horseshoe theory: Mar 7, 2005

Starsfan posted:

If human wave attacks can overcome all of those other factors it kind of seems like everything we've been doing in the west with our militaries has been a tremendous waste of time and money.

Why do you think Zerg rushes were widely condemned? :smugbert:

# ? Mar 2, 2023 05:22

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

Russia has lost all its tanks AGAIN

how can one country run out of tanks and ammo so many times! Embarassing.

# ? Mar 2, 2023 05:23

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

tankies support a country with no tanks. curious.

# ? Mar 2, 2023 05:24

Grognan: Jan 23, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

crepeface posted:

tankies support a country with no tanks. curious.

# ? Mar 2, 2023 05:25

CODChimera: Jan 29, 2009

Starsfan posted:

If human wave attacks can overcome all of those other factors it kind of seems like everything we've been doing in the west with our militaries has been a tremendous waste of time and money.

it says a lot that people think human wave tactics would be effective

# ? Mar 2, 2023 05:25

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Starsfan posted:

Soooo given that Ukraine was/is widely agreed to have more troops at Bakhmut than Russia, better trained troops, better equipment (courtesy of NATO), better intelligence (courtesy of the US), prepared defensive positions and the mandate of heaven what explains this apparent loss of ground? they just didn't want it as much?

The simple answer is that Russia enjoys pretty serious advantages in being a large country with a much larger armed forces overall, larger manpower pool, and much larger equipment reserves and artillery reserves than Ukraine. Those are some pretty serious strengths for Russia in this conflict. If you're talking to people who think that Ukraine had all the advantages you listed in your post, I think you've been talking to some pretty uninformed people.

# ? Mar 2, 2023 05:26

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

that's his point you dumbass

# ? Mar 2, 2023 05:27

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

crepeface posted:

that's his point you dumbass

Wow, no poo poo?!

# ? Mar 2, 2023 05:28

Al!: Apr 2, 2010

human wave attacks ftw

# ? Mar 2, 2023 05:31

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

https://twitter.com/roadtoserfdumb/status/1630991408478801921?t=rKX8aDcBLmtmqjB51M8XfQ&s=19

# ? Mar 2, 2023 05:31

Danann: Aug 4, 2013

https://twitter.com/chenweihua/status/1630854334207389698

# ? Mar 2, 2023 05:32

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

crepeface posted:

that's his point you dumbass

I think the media breaking out WW2 German mythology almost word for word hints things are not going well in Ukraine, and it seems to be something to keep an eye on.

I mean, obviously we�ve been saying so, but it could read as trying to cushion the public who had previously been told Ukrainian victory was inevitable.

# ? Mar 2, 2023 05:33

Turtle Watch: Jul 30, 2010; by Games Forum

Al! posted:

human wave attacks ftw

Al! posted:

human wave attacks ftw

# ? Mar 2, 2023 05:33

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://twitter.com/roadtoserfdumb/status/1630992137662726162

# ? Mar 2, 2023 05:35

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

mlmp08 posted:

Wow, no poo poo?!

oh im sorry i guess you definitely weren't deliberately misreading a post and gearing up for another 20 page derail of disingenuous bullshit again

# ? Mar 2, 2023 05:36

bagual: Oct 29, 2010; _{_{inconspicuous}}

Some Guy TT posted:

https://twitter.com/reshetz/status/1630591900498395136

putin...good???

# ? Mar 2, 2023 05:38

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# ? May 26, 2024 00:11

Homeless Friend: Jul 16, 2007

Some Guy TT posted:

good news everyone

https://twitter.com/WarintheFuture/status/1631062393584488448

ukraine is winning the most important battles of all the tankie battles

russian command failed to listen to their warthunder/world of tanks conscripts smdh

# ? Mar 2, 2023 05:39

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Ukraine] EU: Nice minister, shame if something were to happen...

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