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NotJustANumber99 posted:I dont loving know and now i'm even more depressed. The only way to get the SCG to hold any power is to have Labour win with a majority of less than 34 or however many of them there are. Like all tactical voting poo poo, this is an impossible needle to thread on purpose so I'm not going to act like anything I do will change it. I don't agree with tactical voting, I prefer to just vote for whoever has the best manifesto. If everyone did that then I think electoralism would do more good in this country, but that's vastly outweighed by the number of people who just want to have voted for the eventual winner. I might be pushed to vote labour if my MP was good but I've posted stuff from her in past ukmts and she's proper poo poo. I also think people here have made a pretty good case lately for even the "good" Labour MPs enabling the worst of the PLP. I also realise that I'm focusing specifically on disabled rights and it's possible that labour will improve things for other groups. Everyone has their own area of specific concern and lines they will not cross (Jaeluni, for example, has posted in the past about the anti Palestine stuff being a deal-breaker for her due to personal connections) and I'm sure the soulless centrists get some kind of kick out of making people with actual principles solve the trolley problem 100 times over every time they vote. This is why I've realised that arguing with people about who they're going to vote for isn't a good way to spend time in this thread but I will make a case for my own preferences if only to make sure I still agree with the small decisions that got me there e: and I'm sorry for bringing you down, thinking about these moral dilemmas isn't good for anyone who can't do much about the end result Tarnop fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Mar 3, 2023 |
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Mar 3, 2023 02:58
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:I looked up what Chief of Staff does a couple of weeks ago. Seems they're like the Office Manager and get the photocopying done for the 'important' people.
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Mar 3, 2023 03:05
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I don't think there's really any good option in terms of voting. Pointing out that Labour are poo poo isn't campaigning for the tories, it's just pointing out that both parties are bad. One might be slightly less bad in certain areas, but not to any extent that matters. But if you don't vote for someone other than the tories, their vote share is larger. And after the Lib Dems poisoned the well of tactical voting and coalitions, voting for a 3rd party isn't an option either. We're all hosed. There are no 'good' choices. I'm going to weigh the options and vote for what I think will be the least bad one, but I don't have any illusion about things meaningfully getting better as a result.
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Mar 3, 2023 04:37
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That sums it up pretty well. I've thought about my post that started this conversation and I don't think I should have made it. I'm just afraid for the future and I'm not helping anyone by just posting, essentially, that things are either going to stay the same (bad) or get worse. That's not news to anyone here
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Mar 3, 2023 04:48
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It would be nice if my body would go to sleep and stay asleep for an appropriate amount of time rather than either sleeping for two hours and waking up, or refusing to go to sleep at all.
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Mar 3, 2023 05:15
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Night Crew!! 
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Mar 3, 2023 05:50
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the only thing we can be sure of for the next election is that there will probably be some very funny stuff in there. also rip to all of you still awake (I'm about to start work so I am safe)
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Mar 3, 2023 06:26
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Tarnop your post was fine. Bleak but that's a reflection on reality, not you. NJAN99 is being an idiot (wow!) doing the whole false dichotomy thing. Nobody should feel beholden to vote Labour just because the Tories are bad. They should vote Labour if they think Labour are good, and if they're not then voting for someone else (or for nobody) is perfectly legitimate.
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Mar 3, 2023 06:32
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sebzilla posted:Tarnop your post was fine. Bleak but that's a reflection on reality, not you. NJAN99 is being an idiot (wow!) doing the whole false dichotomy thing. Nobody should feel beholden to vote Labour just because the Tories are bad. They should vote Labour if they think Labour are good, and if they're not then voting for someone else (or for nobody) is perfectly legitimate.
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Mar 3, 2023 07:07
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A Labour win under Starmer at the next election will result in a Tory win at the following GE and possibly another 10-15 years of utter misery. If Labour don't win in 2024, there is a chance that the sensible politicians will have a tantrum and gently caress off to join the Tories where they belong. Which also means there is a chance for Labour to become better. It's definitely not certain that Labour can turn a corner, but it's a gently caress of a lot more likely if Starmer loses.
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Mar 3, 2023 07:28
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New Labour invented the Work Capability Assessments and hired ATOS. They drew up the blueprints that eventually became Universal Credit. As a disabled person who relies on state support to survive, I certainly won't feel any safer under a Labour government.
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Mar 3, 2023 07:51
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Guavanaut posted:I guess by some metrics it is April as the first spring month in the UK, but not in any part of Scandinavia. I dunno if you are joking with me or not? June as a spring month? e: I see "The first month of 2022 with 10 straight days of average temperature above 15 degrees". Sounds like the definition of summer to me. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 07:56 on Mar 3, 2023 |
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Mar 3, 2023 07:53
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Tarnop posted:That sums it up pretty well. Nah your post was absolutely fine and you were right to make it
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Mar 3, 2023 08:08
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kingturnip posted:A Labour win under Starmer at the next election will result in a Tory win at the following GE and possibly another 10-15 years of utter misery. Hoping Tesco Value Torys will stop being tories on the back of an election loss is like asking Zeus not to gently caress around as a peacock and have his way with the maidens of Athens. Actually, you'd probably have better odds on the Zeus thing.
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Mar 3, 2023 08:16
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sebzilla posted:Tarnop your post was fine. Bleak but that's a reflection on reality, not you. NJAN99 is being an idiot (wow!) doing the whole false dichotomy thing. Nobody should feel beholden to vote Labour just because the Tories are bad. They should vote Labour if they think Labour are good, and if they're not then voting for someone else (or for nobody) is perfectly legitimate.
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Mar 3, 2023 08:40
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This New Labour is currently being flanked from the left by the Tories on Nurses wages and the minimum wage, they'll be indistinguishable from Cameron's Tories in power.
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Mar 3, 2023 08:52
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Spoil your ballot! Just because the Tories are poo poo and Labour is a different shade of poo poo, doesn't mean you have to hold your nose and vote for either. (or search for anyone else who may or may not be just a different shade of shite) SPOIL YOUR BALLOT!
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Mar 3, 2023 09:05
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I'm Scottish so ill probably just vote SNP or Scottish Green
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Mar 3, 2023 09:15
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I missed this defence from yesterday https://twitter.com/GavinWilliamson/status/1631057389649645569 
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Mar 3, 2023 09:18
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Dead Goon posted:SPOIL YOUR BALLOT! Labour having to go into coalition with somebody while the stories get knocked into third would be even better, but less plausible.
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Mar 3, 2023 09:18
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TACD posted:Labour having to go into coalition with somebody while the stories get knocked into third would be even better Labour teaming up with Reform UK?
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Mar 3, 2023 09:19
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Mar 3, 2023 09:28
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lol they really are speedrunning the democrat playbook
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Mar 3, 2023 09:34
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At what point do Politicians have to deal with the fact that every poll says everyone who is a millennial or younger is lefty? at the moment they are chasing the major voting block of old white people, but they will (slowly) die off and the next huge cohort is pretty pissed ATM.
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Mar 3, 2023 09:39
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Oh no, I wouldn't want to be "Politically ignorant" - please tell me more about why it is reasonable moderation to sell off the NHS despite that being unpopular with the public. Edit: Grey Hunter posted:At what point do Politicians have to deal with the fact that every poll says everyone who is a millennial or younger is lefty? at the moment they are chasing the major voting block of old white people, but they will (slowly) die off and the next huge cohort is pretty pissed ATM. Well if you look at the way oap bus passes, but not student passes, count as valid voting photo ID - I think you'll see they already are on it. Desiderata fucked around with this message at 09:44 on Mar 3, 2023 |
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Mar 3, 2023 09:40
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kingturnip posted:A Labour win under Starmer at the next election will result in a Tory win at the following GE and possibly another 10-15 years of utter misery. That's optimistic. If Starmer wins then it will confirm the narrative that Labour can only win as a right wing party, and if he wins by a large margin as expected he will immediately purge the party left as he will no longer need them. Five more years of Tories will trash the country before maybe someone gets in who will try to restore the cycle of "Labour build, Tories destroy", but five years of Starmer will usher in permanent Tory hegemony. This is not a choice between good and bad. It's a choice between bad now or bad forever.
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Mar 3, 2023 09:58
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Jedit posted:That's optimistic. If Starmer wins then it will confirm the narrative that Labour can only win as a right wing party, and if he wins by a large margin as expected he will immediately purge the party left as he will no longer need them. Five more years of Tories will trash the country before maybe someone gets in who will try to restore the cycle of "Labour build, Tories destroy", but five years of Starmer will usher in permanent Tory hegemony. He won't bother purging the Left if he wins a big majority, all evidence points to them doing nothing more than sitting quietly on the backbenches writing the occasional grumpy letter, and if he doesn't even need to rely on them for votes it's better to have them softly grumbling inside the party rather than pushing them out and running the risk that a group of 20-ish Left MPs outside of Labour begin to resemble an actual alternative to Labour.
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Mar 3, 2023 10:07
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Some of this discussion reminds me of the bit in Four Lions where the chap argues that the best way to get charged up is to get punched in the face.
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Mar 3, 2023 10:07
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Jedit posted:That's optimistic. If Starmer wins then it will confirm the narrative that Labour can only win as a right wing party, and if he wins by a large margin as expected he will immediately purge the party left as he will no longer need them. Five more years of Tories will trash the country before maybe someone gets in who will try to restore the cycle of "Labour build, Tories destroy", but five years of Starmer will usher in permanent Tory hegemony. The future isn't set. There have been a lot of poo poo choices and a lot of good ones made over a long time that no-one even remembers. It wasn't so long ago history was over. Until it is we have to keep our heads up and advocate for what is right. Sir Sidney Poitier posted:Some of this discussion reminds me of the bit in Four Lions where the chap argues that the best way to get charged up is to get punched in the face. QFT
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Mar 3, 2023 10:14
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I'm 99% sure that Barry in Four Lions is supposed to be a parody of David Wulstan Myatt. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XT8Re4r_ig Which goes a way to explaining why he's so ready to bomb a mosque to 'radicalize the moderates', being a neo-nazi conspiracy oval office wearing Muslim vibes more than a Muslim.
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Mar 3, 2023 10:15
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Zalakwe posted:The future isn't set. There have been a lot of poo poo choices and a lot of good ones made over a long time that no-one even remembers. I agree, but I completely disagree that starmers labour is "what's right". Motherfucker is just a poor man's David Cameron in every way that counts (except that one)
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Mar 3, 2023 10:17
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I don't think any of us are going to see a better future until our antiquated FPTP system is replaced with an actual representative democracy, an elected upper house and an elected head of state. We don't even have an independent Electoral Commission anymore. Under the current system, there's no way that a genuine social democratic party can take hold. We don't have any free press in the UK anymore, so any genuine alternative will be Corbynised by the media's lasers. If that doesn't work, the establishment also control the police, intelligence services and can implement all sorts of emergency powers to stifle any real threat. We also now have a generation of people who are of voting age who have been groomed to be fascists and who have known nothing but austerity. There's also no collective understanding of politics anymore, with many people unable to differentiate between local and central government, or what is actually left and right wing. It's all media fed popularity contests that many people see no differently to any other reality TV programme. Short of some kind of revolution, I can't see any of this changing for the better. The table is entirely rigged.... fuctifino fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Mar 3, 2023 |
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Mar 3, 2023 10:21
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Miftan posted:I agree, but I completely disagree that starmers labour is "what's right". Motherfucker is just a poor man's David Cameron in every way that counts (except that one) Yeah don't vote for that guy. Lying, status quo loving, opportunist backed by more of the same.
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Mar 3, 2023 10:26
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a vote for labour is a vote for the tories, you just don’t know it yet
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Mar 3, 2023 10:29
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Pound shop Hitler is trebling down https://twitter.com/AndyGrays0n/status/1631585867822256131
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Mar 3, 2023 10:29
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fuctifino posted:I don't think any of us are going to see a better future until our antiquated FPTP system is replaced with an actual representative democracy I was pretty young when the alternative vote referendum happened, but I'm still pretty confused as to why so many were against it.
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Mar 3, 2023 10:30
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https://twitter.com/albyearley/status/1631318774610550786?s=46&t=_akPFYiqAqKbxYd3RPf4Jg Nothing to see here, lads
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Mar 3, 2023 10:30
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People really shouldn’t be that worked up about who they vote for, the MPs/councillors themselves clearly don’t give a poo poo and are happy to swap parties even after they won an election on a party platform
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Mar 3, 2023 10:32
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Sir Sidney Poitier posted:I was pretty young when the alternative vote referendum happened, but I'm still pretty confused as to why so many were against it. Many on the left were whipped up by viral media stuff that voting for AV would mean that we'd never get actual proportional representation. There was a hell of a lot of manipulation on all sides [See: Brexit referendum]
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Mar 3, 2023 10:33
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fuctifino posted:Many on the left were whipped up by viral media stuff that voting for AV would mean that we'd never get actual proportional representation. There was a hell of a lot of manipulation on all sides [See: Brexit referendum] 
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