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Yes lol
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Mar 3, 2023 06:15
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| # ? May 23, 2024 19:16 |
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Yeah I don't really think the overall skill level of people has gone up. Just feels like games are having a harder time pulling from that middle group consistently of people who are versed in shooters but aren't in that platinum > range
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Mar 3, 2023 06:24
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people in general are much better and matchmaking is far more balanced than pubstomping days of yore
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Mar 3, 2023 09:21
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Not even that, before you basically had dedicated servers for everything. You wanted to aim train? Find a server for it. This contributed to big fish in a small pond syndrome, because lots of people who thought they were good would play competitively and get loving destroyed. You wanna see this nowadays? Go join a local fighting game community, people who are good online go to their locals and get murdered by the worst people there.
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Mar 3, 2023 13:03
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I think I can explain the "stomp" thing regarding 10 years ago. Before ML matchmaking, you get into games with pretty much anyone. If you are above average, this means most of your games are going to be like bronze overwatch games. You can feel good about yourself and have a big impact. Every once in a while you will run into a GM type player, but they are probably playing against each other on private servers and don't want to bother with the general public. This means that the further you are above average, the higher percentage of games you win. Feels good. The difference with ML matchmaking is that even if you are in the top 15% of players, you still lose 1/2 of your games and that losing 50% you are powerless to do anything about. Feels bad. The only time you really run into a significant mismatch is when they are climbing past you or intentionally smurfing. Even a closely matched game can feel like a stomp if the team is clicking or has a favorable map for their characters. Even tiny variations in people's mood or mental state can lead to a "stomp." I don't really mind the bigger skill variance matchups in QP. Faster games, better practice, less at stake. Why not play against GMs for fun?
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Mar 3, 2023 15:12
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headcase posted:I don't really mind the bigger skill variance matchups in QP. Faster games, better practice, less at stake. Why not play against GMs for fun? I imagine this is like playing against someone who's really really good at ice hockey while you're just starting out. You basically only get to play when they let you.
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Mar 3, 2023 17:05
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your ability to learn from them is also ahhh limited like oh I'm gonna learn basketball by playing against Ja Morant, I bet I can glean all kinds of insights from him that will help me improve my game *Ja Morant dunks on me so hard he breaks my neck*
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Mar 3, 2023 17:23
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dogstile posted:I imagine this is like playing against someone who's really really good at ice hockey while you're just starting out. I took my daughter ice skating the other day, now that poo poo is hard.
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Mar 3, 2023 17:24
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Pattonesque posted:your ability to learn from them is also ahhh limited OK but it happens every once in a while and it's interesting to see how they dominate with positioning and raw APM.
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Mar 3, 2023 17:30
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headcase posted:The only time you really run into a significant mismatch is when they are climbing past you or intentionally smurfing. Not even close to my experience. The number of games where you've got an assassin on the other team going 24/2 or something is ridiculous. Good training for the game is fighting with a full team against another full team, that's what most of the game is after all. It's not watching your team get melted by one person, then dying in the following 2v5. I think the issue is also more exaggerated in OW because it is so team based. If you have one poo poo teammate who keeps dying first in every team fight, you're ALWAYS fighting at a massive disadvantage. A single person can't easily move in and get some picks like in other shooters because you have to work through support players as well. PantsBandit fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Mar 3, 2023 |
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Mar 3, 2023 17:32
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headcase posted:The only time you really run into a significant mismatch is when they are climbing past you or intentionally smurfing. Have you played a match this season? Overwatch team has specifically written about how they are allowing players of extremely wide ranges of skill to be matched together.
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Mar 3, 2023 17:36
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Jack Trades posted:Have you played a match this season? That doesn't mean that it doesn't try to keep things averaged out between teams. I have played a decent amount this season and haven't had any 'feels bad' games that i can recall. I generally play comp or MH tho.
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Mar 3, 2023 17:43
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i'll also say matchmaking doesn't really capture the full depth of people who play games online...there's a huge tier below bronze. back in the day if you were platchat [i think this is like top 20% of ladder?] you were basically topfragging on most pub servers. there are games like dark and darker without sbmm where you can see the humanity
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Mar 3, 2023 17:55
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headcase posted:how they dominate with positioning and raw APM. Uh no, they dominate your team because your team's full of idiots (probably you & me included), constantly making mistakes that are easily capitalized on. Here's my QP experience when queuing with friends (anywhere from silver to low plat, I'm probably somewhere in Diamond). Hitscan GM+: Punish your team for standing out in the open and not using cover. If you're the best player on your team (ie their closest MMR counterpart assigned by the matchmaking system), they will spend the whole game tunneling you at the expense of basically anything else. I slept a nano'ed genji mid-dash, grenaded his Rein mid-charge, then stepped a tiny bit outside of my cave to get LOS on a teammate only to get one-shot by a t500 widow who sat in one-place for 20 seconds staring at my cover because nobody else on my team mattered to him. Projectile GM: Kill your team for walking exposed into dumb chokes, making predictable movements, and having no situational awareness despite you pinging their position when they're flanking. Have to swap to Widow and snipe Pharmercy from the spawn doors on Ilios Well or Ruins to get your team through the first choke. Doomfist GM: Turbostomp your team because nobody wants to play his counters or is physically unable to (my mercy/moira friends' can't play ana, my dps friend isn't good enough on McCree/Bastion to punish reckless dives, Roadhog's nerfed into the ground so I cant 1-man counter him). Jump, punch, shoot, shield, repeat ad nauseam while getting pocketed by his Ana. Haven't run into a GM ball main in QP yet, thankfully. The fun games are when the opposing GM player elects to play a hero they're not good with, but that's basically what Dogstile was saying: "You basically only get to play when they let you".
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Mar 3, 2023 18:10
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Matchmaking has been fine for me. I'm a serial profile checker and when you factor in decay, games played, etc, it's usually pretty close. My MMR seems to be gold 1/plat 4. I occasionally get diamond and masters players, but they're mostly off-role. Sometimes I get rolled, but sometimes I have a good game and look like a smurf. I'm not disputing that there are matchmaking issues, but they've been insignificant for me. This is on Support role.
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Mar 3, 2023 18:10
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headcase posted:OK but it happens every once in a while and it's interesting to see how they dominate with positioning and raw APM. I hate long youtube videos, but your average player is still going to learn a lot more from a 10 minute tips video than they will from getting spawn camped by a much better team, and will probably also feel less annoyed
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Mar 3, 2023 18:14
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Boogan posted:Matchmaking has been fine for me. I'm a serial profile checker and when you factor in decay, games played, etc, it's usually pretty close. My MMR seems to be gold 1/plat 4. I occasionally get diamond and masters players, but they're mostly off-role. Sometimes I get rolled, but sometimes I have a good game and look like a smurf. I'm not disputing that there are matchmaking issues, but they've been insignificant for me. This is on Support role. I think we are seeing a trend that the further you are below median, then worse these mixed rank games are going to feel. People who are gold/plat probably don't feel much difference either way. People who are diamond+ get to lol at most lobbies, and people in bronze/silver feel out of their depth more often. (talking QP, ranked matchmaking seems fine?)
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Mar 3, 2023 18:20
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The issue is that a Gold Tank will have to play completely differently depending on whether they have Bronze Supports or Diamond Supports, same goes for the Support Players, which is insanely frustrating when you're not loving allowed to know you teammate's ranks, and mentally adjust to that accordingly before the match is half-way done.
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Mar 3, 2023 18:21
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Jack Trades posted:The issue is that a Gold Tank will have to play completely differently depending on whether they have Bronze Supports or Diamond Supports, same goes for the Support Players, which is insanely frustrating when you're not loving allowed to know you teammate's ranks, and mentally adjust to that accordingly before the match is half-way done. Yeah this is a huge thing, like I get DPS asking me to dive in more but that entirely depends on if the healers have my back or not. Playing safer if the healers can't keep up is better then dashing in and dying and yelling at them because they don't know how to play. dogstile posted:I imagine this is like playing against someone who's really really good at ice hockey while you're just starting out. Ok so many many years ago me and my friends decided we wanted to get into a physical sport and went to the Y to play basketball, we got a court and were messing around but were getting stares from a group of guys who wanted us to get off the court because we weren't playing seriously enough so we invited them to play against us. Turns out it Muggsy Bogues and his sons/friends, it was an absolute massacre and we never played basketball again. Not that we probably would of anyway but it makes a great story/excuse as to why we quit.
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Mar 3, 2023 18:42
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socialsecurity posted:Ok so many many years ago me and my friends decided we wanted to get into a physical sport and went to the Y to play basketball, we got a court and were messing around but were getting stares from a group of guys who wanted us to get off the court because we weren't playing seriously enough so we invited them to play against us. Turns out it Muggsy Bogues and his sons/friends, it was an absolute massacre and we never played basketball again. Not that we probably would of anyway but it makes a great story/excuse as to why we quit. lmao this is incredible, what a story see that's the kinda thing that rocks in real life because it almost never happens (beer league sports tend to have pretty well-maintained tiers) but it sucks when it comes to online play because there isn't.
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Mar 3, 2023 18:54
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headcase posted:I think we are seeing a trend that the further you are below median, then worse these mixed rank games are going to feel. People who are gold/plat probably don't feel much difference either way. People who are diamond+ get to lol at most lobbies, and people in bronze/silver feel out of their depth more often. (talking QP, ranked matchmaking seems fine?) This happens higher too. I get dumped into GM games and I'm definitely not GM anymore (at least, not above low GM). Everyone is like "lol, least you kinda know what you're doing, last time we had a gold tank against a GM". On the plus side, the playerbase is so small that people still recognise me and don't give me poo poo, so that's cool.
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Mar 3, 2023 18:55
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socialsecurity posted:Yeah this is a huge thing, like I get DPS asking me to dive in more but that entirely depends on if the healers have my back or not. Playing safer if the healers can't keep up is better then dashing in and dying and yelling at them because they don't know how to play. lmao that's dope
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Mar 3, 2023 18:59
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dogstile posted:This happens higher too. question for you -- around GM levels, is it common to get one dude on the team (usually DPS) who's dying like 50% more often than everyone else? This happens to me all the time in low diamond and I'm kind of fascinated by it. I'm wondering if it's just a consequence of a hyper aggressive playstyle not working out but I'd say in 75% of my games there's one dude (on either side) who just keeps headbutting bullets and never adjusts his play to *not* do that.
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Mar 3, 2023 19:00
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I think most of the games I play are fine and evenly matched and fun even.
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Mar 3, 2023 19:11
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Pattonesque posted:question for you -- around GM levels, is it common to get one dude on the team (usually DPS) who's dying like 50% more often than everyone else? Dude the amount of games where one person has like 10-12 deaths while everyone else has 6 is painful. People who don't prioritize staying alive are the worst, hate having to play the game essentially down a man.
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Mar 3, 2023 19:22
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PantsBandit posted:Dude the amount of games where one person has like 10-12 deaths while everyone else has 6 is painful. People who don't prioritize staying alive are the worst, hate having to play the game essentially down a man. yeah that's what's confusing to me, because this *never* happens to me. Maybe I play too cautiously but the one time I had more noticeably deaths than the rest of the team it was because I was trying to Lucio speed some folks who were overextended to safety and got murked and besides it was only like, 13 deaths compared to an average of 10. These dudes who are dying 18 times when everyone else is at 9 are bizarre. Like, we haven't had 18 teamfights and we don't have a Mercy so what exactly is going on here
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Mar 3, 2023 19:30
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i one tricked a soldier to gm, and i'm here to tell you that too little deaths can be a sign of bad and overly conservative play! there are lots of situations where greatly increasing your chances of dying is the correct play! the person in a higher skill lobby with tons of deaths could be playing the game much more correctly than their teammates with much lower deaths! a common situation where you're going to correctly make yourself much more likely to die is throwing "risky" haymakers when your team just received a big disadvantage in a fight. the most likely explanation for a particular player in lower rated games having high deaths is usually just plain boring variance. the better widow can lose a fair duel against a worse widow 3 times in a row. if a player is particularly worse at using say cover than other players at that rank and dies a lot more as a result, that means they are much better at some other aspect of the game to make up for it.
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Mar 3, 2023 19:34
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comedyblissoption posted:i one tricked a soldier to gm, and i'm here to tell you that too little deaths can be a sign of bad and overly conservative play! there are lots of situations where greatly increasing your chances of dying is the correct play! the person in a higher skill lobby with tons of deaths could be playing the game much more correctly than their teammates with much lower deaths! yeah this scans. The one thing I'm trying to be cognizant of is that I *think* a lot of these folks are also dying insanely quickly, like two seconds into every teamfight, but that's likely just my perception of it.
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Mar 3, 2023 19:51
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In my experience, the more I try to "carry" a match, the more I end up dying. Now I begin by playing ultra-safe during poke/setup and adjust my aggression based on that. Sometimes I'm holding a corner all game. Sometimes I'm spawn- camping the DPS. Depends on the lobby.
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Mar 3, 2023 19:57
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The person with twice the deaths of everyone else is far more often the genji consistently trying and failing to dive the enemy team. It's a bit tiresome hearing "well actually these bad stats indicate the person is good!" like, yeah it CAN mean something different than it seems at first blush. But it is far more often the simpler explanation. Your teammates are garbage and are incapable of recognizing their own mistakes.
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Mar 3, 2023 20:30
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Posters just keep jumping on the landmine that is CBO's peeve with the thread. It's refreshing to see someone push back on the constant "my teammates are IRREDEEMABLE GARBAGE, why am I matched with these LOSERS!?" Matchmaking being hosed is a separate issue from people fundamentally misunderstanding how rating systems work.
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Mar 3, 2023 21:53
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Malah posted:Posters just keep jumping on the landmine that is CBO's peeve with the thread. It's refreshing to see someone push back on the constant "my teammates are IRREDEEMABLE GARBAGE, why am I matched with these LOSERS!?" A lot of this isn't entirely serious, sometimes it helps to vent about some shitshow you ended up with even if sometimes you are the shitshow.
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Mar 3, 2023 22:10
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A lot of my teammates' mistakes are glaringly obvious to me but I bet a lot of my mistakes are glaringly obvious to them too so it's best just to focus on what I can do better
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Mar 3, 2023 22:17
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i lost 10 games in a row yesterday then i won 10 games in a row today such is life
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Mar 3, 2023 23:51
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The other favor when looking at deaths is roles. DPS is probably going to have higher deaths than tanks and healers because they have neither the defensive powers of tanks nor the safe positioning of healers to protect them. They are a much riskier role than the others. That said, if some DPS has 50% more deaths than anyone else and has poor DMG and kill numbers then they are probably dying before they can make significant contributions. For example, a junkrat is playing hyper aggressive and dies in literally every fight. If he is dive bombing the enemy team and getting trades, then he's at least pulling his weight. If he's getting favorable trades then he could be carrying. If hes having trouble confirming kills or they are getting rezzed then, well, yah know.
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Mar 4, 2023 00:14
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Pattonesque posted:A lot of my teammates' mistakes are glaringly obvious to me I don't think I've ever had a game of ow2 where I could honestly say I didn't make any big mistakes and played out of my mind and still lost the game b/c it was impossible to carry my teammates hard enough
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Mar 4, 2023 03:25
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having said that, if there's a game where your tank just seems to die instantly really fast over and over at the beginning of fights then yeah you cant win those but theyre pretty rare
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Mar 4, 2023 03:30
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had a game in which our tank died 16 times, twice as much as anyone else "hey man play a little more careful" "sorry i don't use walls like a rat" welp gg go next lol
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Mar 5, 2023 01:22
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sometimes overwatch is me blocking a rein shatter and then rocking a soldier out of his ult .2 seconds after he starts it and us still losing the fight because two DPS died a second later regardless lol
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Mar 6, 2023 05:39
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| # ? May 23, 2024 19:16 |
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Is sym the best dva counter at the moment? A good dva who uses her matrix effectively can feel pretty hard to overcome.
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Mar 6, 2023 05:42
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