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hatty posted:I didn’t say that the work was pro genocide I just thought the last chapter was messy Ah, right. We're on the same page there. I'm just in the camp that 139 is distinctly terrible, with even the immediately surrounding chapters (138 and 139.5) being solid, reasonably considered parts of the work, while 139 proper aggressively shits over everything. It's weird, and that interview doesn't really do much to clear it up, beyond suggesting that part of the reason Isayama changed the ending was worrying that the first go would come off as pro-genocide.
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Apr 8, 2022 23:48
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as someone not as effected by the years of discourse yet i can say that i thought the story and ending were both pretty clear where they stood, they even had armin put on his dogshit liar face when thanking eren for his mistake, you can tell he's horrified but what use is it to drive that home to his weird demigod friend who has explicitly just told you that his brain is fried due to living in a weird no-time space for however long from his own perception
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Apr 9, 2022 02:05
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Ending is sloppy yadda ya, but with the extra pages that message got across to me anyways, and I think the series completed itself, thematically speaking. But manga readers are dumb as gently caress some maybe this wasn't a good gamble. Just today I found out that lots of Twitter tankies who support Russia's invasion are Eren Yaeger-worshipping tatake-types. To me that just comes across as completely missing the point lol, but then again some people think Walter White and Travis Bickle and Tyler Durden and Paul Atreides are heroes. AoT certainly could've done better, but a portion of this phenomenon was always going to exist, because it always happens. A part of me respects the intent to kick the hornet's nest by making the ending a negative example, but the discourse-weary part of me thinks it might've been better to go for a smoother landing. Interesting to see how the anime handles it. Beefstew fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Apr 9, 2022 |
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Apr 9, 2022 04:28
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I finished the season, had some nice action and even a couple moments where I felt chills, which just makes me angry because I know where this thing is going. Can mappa save the series with 12 episodes adapting 8 more chapters? I wouldn’t bet money on it but I hold out a tiny sliver of hope.
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Apr 10, 2022 18:38
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So I just finished the story by way of watching the whole show, then reading the last two volumes to get to the ending. Did the final chapter get a Mass Effect 3 style add-on cause people didn't like it? How did that all go down? I'm kinda surprised to come in here after finishing the story and find out people didn't like the ending, I thought it all checked out pretty well and stayed pretty true to the story and the themes and the characters. Maybe the anime did a better job setting it up than the manga at the time.
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Jun 28, 2022 15:37
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Can a mod take this thread out back and uh... have it live in a farm upstate?
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Jun 28, 2022 16:59
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MJeff posted:So I just finished the story by way of watching the whole show, then reading the last two volumes to get to the ending. Did the final chapter get a Mass Effect 3 style add-on cause people didn't like it? How did that all go down? Yeah, it's a bit better set up already and hopefully the last episodes will clean things up a bit more. Basically, there was a lot of implied subplot stuff that never went anywhere that the anime toned down. As for the extra stuff, I can't confirm this, but apparently the ending went over fine in Japan, with it primarily being foreign readers who went ballistic. Any changes came from Isayama wanting to adjust things. (Which I think helped a lot. The broad themes were fine, but the initial ending felt like it betrayed Mikasa's character arc, while the revised ending was dead on the money. Eren's last chapter still felt a little messy, though.) If you're willing to indulge me in some insane corkboard conspiracy talk, I suspect the last chapter was meant to have Eren as the father of Historia's child, but that plan got discarded pretty late in, making some things (like Eren's exact motives) less coherent than they should have been. (Eren wanting to burn the word down is pretty dang Eren, but the saving his friends stuff doesn't work so well with Sasha and Hange's deaths.) The initial version of the chapter also had a lot of things that just felt... sloppy, or even spiteful, like the Yeagerists running the island lead by someone who had a small character arc about learning to not go along with their bullshit, which felt weird with the rest of the manga, but pretty easy to understand with a last minute discard of a lot of plans. But we won't know if that's true for years, if ever, and the anime's cleaning things up enough that the ending will (hopefully) land right the first time, so it's going to be a trivia item, not something terribly important.
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Jun 28, 2022 20:38
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Huh. The thing that kept striking me watching the anime was how the story was clearly very considered and thought out and how the foreshadowing and set up and payoff was so consistent and so strong. Maybe the credit I was giving Isayama for that was actually Mappa tidying things up with the benefit of hindsight. 
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Jun 28, 2022 20:51
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MJeff posted:Huh. The thing that kept striking me watching the anime was how the story was clearly very considered and thought out and how the foreshadowing and set up and payoff was so consistent and so strong. Maybe the credit I was giving Isayama for that was actually Mappa tidying things up with the benefit of hindsight. Oh, no. Almost all of the manga had that too. That's why the ending was so weird. After 138 chapters of strong setup and payoff, you get one chapter just tossing a ton of stuff aside.
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Jun 28, 2022 20:53
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Bumping this before some idiot spoils the entire ending in anime chat.
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Mar 4, 2023 06:30
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I just saw Season 4, the final season, part 3 chapter 1 in Crunchyroll and that was insane. Animation continues to be amazing. I can’t believe I have to wait again 😭
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Mar 4, 2023 12:54
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So, they skipped Historia giving birth and the scene on the cliff. I guess they probably just decided to move those to part 2 for pacing reasons? One thing I noticed that kinda stuck out is that they sort of redid the start of the story. In the original start of the anime, Eren wakes up all freaked out in a way that's different from the manga. But they actually took the time to bring the anime back in line with the manga here. If there ever was any chance of a different ending, I think that kinda sinks it.
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Mar 4, 2023 14:21
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Will anime people get mad at the ending or was the outcry so loud they’ll expect the worst and come away liking it
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Mar 4, 2023 14:27
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Yeah the skipped baby stuff was a bit noteworthy. At the minimum, the Historia scene will surely come back. The cliff baby scene will probably be moved because its pay off would come in the second movie anyway when the rumbling stops. I didn’t really notice any anime only additional lines or content in this first part, just some re-staged shots. So yeah, not really getting the sense they’ll be changing or adding anything to the ending at this point. hatty posted:Will anime people get mad at the ending or was the outcry so loud they’ll expect the worst and come away liking it At this point they’ll be getting the expanded ending, rather than the original one, so that’s already one thing working in the anime’s favor. There’s also something to be said for the way an actor delivers lines versus how they read on the page. A live action actor though has a lot more freedom in how a line comes off in their delivery and mannerisms. Not sure the voice actor can really do enough for some of the lines coming up to make them less ridiculous. I think one thing that might help the anime is them more clearly highlighting how Ymir brain poisoned Eren was. It won’t lessen Armin’s bad take, but it might better help re-frame it. Teek fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Mar 4, 2023 |
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Mar 4, 2023 14:28
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It will certainly go over much smoother with the change in pacing, the spectacle, the accompaniment of music/voice acting, and the tamed expectations that folks at large probably have. The expanded ending saved the manga for me anyway, so as long as they stick with that, I'm good.
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Mar 4, 2023 14:49
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The expanded stuff is good but I think the Eren and Amin scene should get a complete rewrite, I could still see that happening in the anime. maybe cut the worm turning everyone into titans for two pages
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Mar 4, 2023 15:03
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It would also help if they gave us some kind of actual dialogue and wrap up scenes for the remaining Paradis characters like Historia, Hitch and the Braus family, rather than the “oh hey, things stayed bad here” shots we got in the manga. Not just for the thematics, but to give them actual send offs.
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Mar 4, 2023 15:30
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Rico emerges from a thousand year slumber to give a five minute long ending soliloquy.
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Mar 4, 2023 15:33
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Teek posted:At this point they’ll be getting the expanded ending, rather than the original one, so that’s already one thing working in the anime’s favor. There’s also something to be said for the way an actor delivers lines versus how they read on the page. A live action actor though has a lot more freedom in how a line comes off in their delivery and mannerisms. Yeah, everything's much more powerful seeing it animated with all the music and voice acting, hot drat. Not just the Rumbling, but Hange's loving fantastic exit, Floch being the best horrible little poo poo, etc. Back when the manga ended, I felt annoyed at all the time loop predetermined future stuff. It seemed less thought out compared to any other big theme or reveal in the manga. But the way they've framed and polished it and sold it so hard, its not bugging me right now. They did such a fantastic job before with the anime version of Zeke and Eren going through Grisha's memories, it became one of my absolute favourite parts of the whole story. Then Eren's breakdown here over the kid was like a direct callback to Grisha. Instead of feeling rear end-pully out of nowhere, it all feels more solid and fitting for the story now imo. Not getting into big philosophical free will debates, but just looking back with regret and wondering how, or if, things could've ever been different. And Jesus Christ, everything in the actual Rumbling is a whole nother level of brutal and insane. Even if the last scenes remained exactly the same as the manga, the story's already benefiting from having that atrocity emphasized more.
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Mar 4, 2023 15:36
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The Armin Line actually might be salvageable if the actor delivers it in the most sarcastic way possible
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Mar 4, 2023 15:37
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hatty posted:The expanded stuff is good but I think the Eren and Amin scene should get a complete rewrite, I could still see that happening in the anime. maybe cut the worm turning everyone into titans for two pages Nah that was pretty vital to the feeling that "this poo poo just won't end" and everything being at its absolute bleakest before Mikasa finally takes action. It's important for taking every character off the board so it HAS to be Mikasa to finally do something. Teek posted:I didn’t really notice any anime only additional lines or content in this first part, just some re-staged shots. So yeah, not really getting the sense they’ll be changing or adding anything to the ending at this point. The things I noticed on first viewing, besides skipping Historia and cliff baby. - Halil's death is slightly censored. They didn't really show his head as completely busted open as they did in the manga. - Eren's head inside the Attack Titan is....censored? They significantly darkened it so you kinda can't even tell it's his severed head. Also, his eyes are open instead of closed. - They added some stuff to the Rumbling. People trying to force their way onto a train, some people trapped in a jail cell, fuckin' burning bodies just stumbling around, a dude shooting himself in the head. The manga version of the Rumbling mostly just focused on "these people are getting trampled by this wall of monsters, it's horrible", while the anime really played up the "this wall of monsters is also a walking firestorm", so you got a lot of focus on everything being on fire, which I enjoyed immensely. One weird quirk of this was that in the manga, Eren's "this is freedom!" scene was portrayed as him being high above the carnage, looking down at the steam produced by the Rumbling and it just looking like clouds from his perspective. In the anime, the Rumbling is an orange and black hellstorm, so Eren envisioning a blue sky is just a complete delusion. - Hange's last stand against the Titans was obviously way expanded. They get like one page before they bursts into flame, here they gets a whole-rear end action scene. - Leonhart had a pistol instead of a rifle. I dunno why this amused me so much, but it did. I did think Hange and Pieck's exchange where Pieck is like "please stop  " was funnier in the manga.
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Mar 4, 2023 15:37
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I think they're trying to hide the fact Eren is just a head until the point Mikasa bursts in there rather than censoring it. They had no problem showing his head flying off in the last season.
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Mar 4, 2023 16:33
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I will say that this gives me hope that the ending as a whole will come off better than the Manga. I also do hope they change some of the dialogue in the final part though. Especially that Armin line. Just cut it. I think they can tweak things enough to make it work well enough
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Mar 4, 2023 16:35
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serious gaylord posted:I think they're trying to hide the fact Eren is just a head until the point Mikasa bursts in there rather than censoring it. They're hiding his head because it's not inside the Attack Titan, IT'S UNDERGROUND IN SHINGANSHINA AND AFTER ZEKE DIES, HE'S GONNA COME OUT OF THE GROUND AND TOUCH HISTORIA'S BABY, WHO JUST INHERITED THE BEAST TITAN TO RESTART THE RUMBLING AAAAA 
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Mar 4, 2023 16:41
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MJeff posted:They're hiding his head because it's not inside the Attack Titan, IT'S UNDERGROUND IN SHINGANSHINA AND AFTER ZEKE DIES, HE'S GONNA COME OUT OF THE GROUND AND TOUCH HISTORIA'S BABY, WHO JUST INHERITED THE BEAST TITAN TO RESTART THE RUMBLING AAAAA I can't even remember. Did Historia's baby even have plot relevance in the end?
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Mar 4, 2023 16:44
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Not really, more a “there’s still hope, but maybe a damned hope” thematic thing which will probably be better highlighted since it and the cliff baby were moved to the last movie.
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Mar 4, 2023 17:43
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Bifauxnen posted:And Jesus Christ, everything in the actual Rumbling is a whole nother level of brutal and insane. Even if the last scenes remained exactly the same as the manga, the story's already benefiting from having that atrocity emphasized more. The brutality of the rumbling made me think of Sergeant Major Gross looking directly into the screen saying quote:I wouldn't call it pleasure ... I just find it interesting. Does that sound a bit crazy to you? Well, the fact is most people want to see cruelty. Just rough stuff that sticks with me well after the episode has finished.
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Mar 4, 2023 18:08
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DaiJiaTeng posted:I can't even remember. Did Historia's baby even have plot relevance in the end? Well, for the anime at least, they're gonna have to show us the color of its eyes, which could get real interesting.
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Mar 4, 2023 18:36
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MJeff posted:Well, for the anime at least, they're gonna have to show us the color of its eyes, which could get real interesting. Don't all babies have blue eyes?
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Mar 4, 2023 19:11
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On the subject of Historia's baby, I'm not entirely sure.....why she got pregnant? I've been doing some rereading - was she doing it to try to help Eren, try to stop Eren, or something else entirely?
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Mar 4, 2023 19:52
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To clear that up she’d need to have dialogue but there’s no time for that we need to focus on the romance between Armin and Annie and fight a big worm
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Mar 4, 2023 20:03
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MJeff posted:On the subject of Historia's baby, I'm not entirely sure.....why she got pregnant? I've been doing some rereading - was she doing it to try to help Eren, try to stop Eren, or something else entirely? I still suspect that it's the remnant of a plotline that didn't survive to the final version. But in the final, we're left to assume that the MP are right. She got pregnant so that no-one could force her to become the Beast Titan before Eren removed the need for any of that. Selfish, just like Ymir wanted her to be.
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Mar 4, 2023 21:58
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Historia remains the biggest problem of the ending, I've come around to most of the rest. They're de-emphasizing her here, which is the right move, since she doesn't really amount to much. Keep in mind that I always thought the "Eren is still in Paradis" theory was loving stupid, and I also never specifically believed she was having Eren's kid or that they secretly loved each other or whatever. It's just an odd plot appendage that didn't develop in a series that is otherwise pretty tight considering its length and complexity. It definitely seemed like she might of had some kind of anti-Eren contingency, but who knows what the gently caress anymore. It could just be entirely symbolic, after all. Armin and Annie are cute together, and I think their very brief romantic scenes are appropriate.
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Mar 5, 2023 08:37
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Historia is in a weird spot where her character was given a sudden meteoric rise in importance (everything around judo throwing her father) but then seemingly had to get written out because she complicates Zeke's narrative existence and the attempt to do so accidentally created intrigue and falsely foreshadowed nothing.
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Mar 5, 2023 15:07
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Where is the cheapest place to get the complete manga?
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Mar 5, 2023 23:01
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Cheapest way would be to read it for free on some shady website. Cheapest legal way would be to get a free 30-day trial of Comixology Online, it looks like?
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Mar 5, 2023 23:19
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I guess I should’ve been more clear, I mean physical manga
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Mar 6, 2023 00:02
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Okay, well, let's take a look at the options on Amazon (I personally use Barnes and Nobles because boo hiss Bezos but this is just for example) You've got 34 individual volumes at 8 bucks each. You've got 12 Omnibuses ranging from 14-20 bucks each. You've got 7 box sets ranging from 26-38. You've got 7 Colossal Editions at about 40 each. Individual Volumes: Somewhere under 270. Omnibus: Around 207 Box Set: Around 237 Colossal Edition: Around 280. For the extra cost, these are bigger and have some special color pages, apparently. So it looks like your best bet is the Omnibuses. A word of warning, I have an AoT Omnibus, it's a little clunky to read. If I wanted to plunk down the one-time cost to get the full physical edition of the manga, I'd probably invest the extra money for the box sets or the Colossal Edition, personally. Oh and hey, here's a video going over all of the different kinds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRUPERDoyx0
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Mar 6, 2023 00:52
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😳 wow thanks for the breakdown I was just expecting a one sentence answer
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Mar 6, 2023 01:37
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Well it's something I've also wondered about and your post gave me an excuse to go figure out all the different editions and crunch the numbers.
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Mar 6, 2023 01:53
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