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Veev
Oct 21, 2010

K is for kid.
A guy or gal just like you.
Dont be in such a hurry to grow up, since there's nothin' a kid can't do.
If TD had a metroid prime map it may be salvageable but now every time I got there I see 3 roads on different elevations all converging on each other.

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Mailer
Nov 4, 2009

Have you accepted The Void as your lord and savior?

Truga posted:

PoF maps are fine, they're just boring because nothing ever happens there because gw2 team thought people hate good meta events when people didn't like HoT

That's a weird take for them. HoT metas are like, one of the most-run ones from what I've seen. They're entirely too long, but Dragonfall and DE show that anet is perfectly happy with the time wasting.

VB/Stand and running RIBA in Silverwastes are still my good experiences, even if they're all too long. At least it doesn't run an entire event destined to lead to misery and toxic chat like DE.

where the red fern gropes
Aug 24, 2011


i think tangled depths is a map that doesn't explain itself well enough. there are a staggering number of shortcuts and secret passages and ways to get around that aren't shown on the map.

examples:

from the auric basin entrance, if you go south and climb up the waterfall, you can walk through some vines to reach a champion hero point and the ogre camp

heading southwest from the AB entrance, you can take the wallow to the beetle pit, then the other wallow to the nuhoch tree. takes about two minutes tops

whydirt
Apr 18, 2001


Gaz Posting Brigade :c00lbert:
The flip side is anet wanted players to explore and find these hidden paths on their own. As previously mentioned, HoT is almost explicitly a metroidvania style expansion with exploration and using upgrades to unlock new locations a key part of the design.

Whether anet succeeded at that design goal or if it’s even a good goal for a MMO can be debated.

Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009


TD is fine as soon as you get nuhoch wallows. It's just spokes coming off a central point and each spoke has a wallow to the related camp. There are tons of windy passages for shortcuts and special secrets and hero points and such but those are easier to understand once you understand the basic layout of the map.

Hyperlynx
Sep 13, 2015

tarbrush posted:

It's super atmospheric, it has four interesting and well done quest chains as well as the main meta, and it's got some fun little bits like let line adventure and the quiz holograms. It makes much more sense as a map when you conceptualise it as tendrils radiating out from ley line convergence. Navigating from the starting camp is a horror show.

I ding it points for mushroom emporer and the rifle adventure.

I guess so. Maybe I'm just too traumatised from getting to that central waypoint in the first place.

orcane
Jun 13, 2012

Fun Shoe

Mailer posted:

That's a weird take for them. HoT metas are like, one of the most-run ones from what I've seen. They're entirely too long, but Dragonfall and DE show that anet is perfectly happy with the time wasting.

VB/Stand and running RIBA in Silverwastes are still my good experiences, even if they're all too long. At least it doesn't run an entire event destined to lead to misery and toxic chat like DE.
It was a good thing to move on from metas being the sole point of an entire expansion's maps, eating all your game time because you needed to be in the map instance (well) before the meta started, but they went way too far in the opposite direction in PoF. In this game where almost everything gets reduced to "max. gold/h", and farming one out of a million different currencies or tokens the fastest way until you reach your current goal, PoF maps don't really offer any of that. All they have is daily hero chests, but the min-max incentive for those is running the one fastest "meta" per map/day (eg. piñata) and then moving elsewhere.

Mailer
Nov 4, 2009

Have you accepted The Void as your lord and savior?

whydirt posted:

Whether anet succeeded at that design goal or if it’s even a good goal for a MMO can be debated.

"A good idea, but doesn't work in an MMO" covers so much in this game.

I'm sure TD is fine once you've mentally mapped the whole thing, which is realistic from content that came out over seven years ago. Without that memory it's just a mass of hidden shortcuts and a useless map that makes you give up on a daily because the target is somewhere below you but you don't know to go a mile north and jump in a hole then take left-right-left-up tunnel paths to get there.

Kassad
Nov 12, 2005

It's about time.
^^^ It would probably have worked better if you didn't have to play the maps for hours to grind the XP needed to unlock the new traversal options. The way they did mounts in PoF was much better I'm that regard.

orcane posted:

It was a good thing to move on from metas being the sole point of an entire expansion's maps, eating all your game time because you needed to be in the map instance (well) before the meta started, but they went way too far in the opposite direction in PoF. In this game where almost everything gets reduced to "max. gold/h", and farming one out of a million different currencies or tokens the fastest way until you reach your current goal, PoF maps don't really offer any of that. All they have is daily hero chests, but the min-max incentive for those is running the one fastest "meta" per map/day (eg. piñata) and then moving elsewhere.

I just like running around the maps looking at the scenery :shobon:

Ra Ra Rasputin
Apr 2, 2011

whydirt posted:

It’s honestly strange that the Desolation wasn’t the final map of PoF. Vabbi feels like a step down in tension and action.

I completely forgot about Vabbi, it would be up there with Echovald as my least favorite expansion map and agree that it's weird that the desolation isn't the final map and how the literal portal to demon filled hell is just sealed up by some thin scrap metal.

Half of the map is wiping the bottoms of pampered nobles, the other half is a environmental effect that keeps you in combat and kills your mounts unless you find places to wait around, it has two metas, one that takes 5 minutes and another that takes 25 minutes but they share the same rewards, the maps would of really benefited from a single good meta and 50% of both branded vabbi and southern desolation being it's own meta map where you stop balthazar's war machine from trying to rip open the gates of torment or something.

I'll throw out a couple more bad maps, living story this time instead of expansion.

Emberbay, it was bad enough it made me stop logging in to play until after path of fire, the visuals were grey on grey, the story felt like filler, it was actively hostile to navigate and the jumping puzzle showed a clear disdain for the players from the designer, the hellishly long collections that had you pixel hunting for something to interact with and after a long content drought with barely any skins added to the game since release I saw the thousand gold clown skins and decided to log off and not log back on for the foreseeable future.

Lake doric I only saw after returning but it just kinda seemed... there? not a whole lot interesting going on there.

orcane
Jun 13, 2012

Fun Shoe
I kept hoping there would be a story development or unlock of some sort to allow access to the brandstorm parts, and I guess there is with mounts (but you basically have to hover through on a skimmer or fly from safe spot to safe spot with a skyscale). It just sucks.

The Sunspear corner is good launch point for griffons, but once your birdjet arrives at your destination you either have to teleport back or switch to skimmer because there's no way to get back to the required heights without setting your mount and yourself on fire constantly.

Kassad posted:

^^^ It would probably have worked better if you didn't have to play the maps for hours to grind the XP needed to unlock the new traversal options. The way they did mounts in PoF was much better I'm that regard.

I just like running around the maps looking at the scenery :shobon:
That's valid and I generally like the PoF maps, too. But overall, (veteran) players have no good reasons to return there while HoT and certain living world maps are available to be farmed 24/7 for rewards which are just massively better in every way. PoF metas don't have to be lovely like Dragon's End or launch HoT, but they needed more consistency and balance. Not stuff like this:

Ra Ra Rasputin posted:

it has two metas, one that takes 5 minutes and another that takes 25 minutes but they share the same rewards

orcane fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Mar 3, 2023

Kassad
Nov 12, 2005

It's about time.
Yeah, I see your point. It's true that the meta in eastern Vabbi is bad.

Mr. Neutron
Sep 15, 2012

~I'M THE BEST~
Why is this new filter mechanic not a jade bot mastery :confused: It would be a lot more elegant + give you some sense of progression...

..btt
Mar 26, 2008
The new map is basically "let's try to unfuck the materials economy", so I guess the intent is to be a research note sink. Doesn't seem worth taking those filters over the free one though, and the cost is miniscule anyway.

Ra Ra Rasputin
Apr 2, 2011
I feel like they would accomplish that goal better if the keys didn't cost more then what you get from using a key?

I'm avoiding the regular chests that are everywhere because they on average give you 2 uncommon gear and 1-3 green jewels, which is nowhere near what a key costs to buy for 20-25 silver on average, should just reuse the drizzlewood reward track material sink but with something other then thick leather returning a profit.

In the meantime I am only opening the big ancient chests which regularly have rare equipment from a couple loops of the place and saving up the rest of the keys for part 2 which might have more big chests, potent blood keys are the cheapest on offer at the moment but who knows how long that will last.

Ra Ra Rasputin fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Mar 3, 2023

jokes
Dec 20, 2012

Uh... Kupo?

Mailer posted:

"A good idea, but doesn't work in an MMO" covers so much in this game.

I'm sure TD is fine once you've mentally mapped the whole thing, which is realistic from content that came out over seven years ago. Without that memory it's just a mass of hidden shortcuts and a useless map that makes you give up on a daily because the target is somewhere below you but you don't know to go a mile north and jump in a hole then take left-right-left-up tunnel paths to get there.

Honestly, TD is probably better if you just dont look at the map and rely on your surroundings to clue you in on poo poo.

..btt
Mar 26, 2008

Ra Ra Rasputin posted:

I feel like they would accomplish that goal better if the keys didn't cost more then what you get from using a key?

yeah I wasn't suggesting it was actually effective :v:

whydirt
Apr 18, 2001


Gaz Posting Brigade :c00lbert:
They really should halve the XP requirements for HoT masteries. That alone would help a lot in terms of making the expansion more newbie friendly and feels like the kind of low-hanging fruit QoL stuff that builds goodwill without a lot of dev resource cost.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012

Uh... Kupo?

whydirt posted:

They really should halve the XP requirements for HoT masteries. That alone would help a lot in terms of making the expansion more newbie friendly and feels like the kind of low-hanging fruit QoL stuff that builds goodwill without a lot of dev resource cost.

I've been capped on XP in all the expansions for a very long time, so I don't think this would do much of anything. If there was a way to convert XP into a different resource though............

whydirt
Apr 18, 2001


Gaz Posting Brigade :c00lbert:

jokes posted:

I've been capped on XP in all the expansions for a very long time, so I don't think this would do much of anything. If there was a way to convert XP into a different resource though............

1) This is for new players. HoT masteries take 2-3x more XP than equivalent ones in later content. The grind made more sense when HoT was literally the only expansion content, but it’s not necessary anymore.

2) You can convert XP to mats or gold using spirit shards and the tier upgrading recipes on the Mystic Forge. Or make G1/G3 legendary weapons and flip them on the TP.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012

Uh... Kupo?

I'm not going to be casually making legendary weapons but i do have a shitload of spirit shards. What's the recipe for turning XP to gold/mats?

whydirt
Apr 18, 2001


Gaz Posting Brigade :c00lbert:
https://fast.farming-community.eu/conversions/spirit-shard

At a minimum you should upgrade your own mats that are profitable. If you get ambitious you can start playing the market with buy and sell orders.

Ra Ra Rasputin
Apr 2, 2011
If you are flush with accountbound legendary materials then it isn't a bad way to really get the most $ for your materials by selling to the impatient who want their legendary now.

And yeah every time you "level up" at 80 and have all that mastery stuff tucked away you are essentially getting gold value in that spirit shard, assuming you are spending them on something, surprised you never noticed them.

Mercury_Storm
Jun 12, 2003

*chomp chomp chomp*
I only recently started using spirit shards because mystic forge flushing is a pain in the rear end

Meeko
Sep 15, 2017

That's right! I'm the counting sheep, Meeko. And I'm a proper sheep youkai!

The idea I suppose is that they think you'll gamble for the chair, but gamblers dont give a poo poo about chairs.

Meskhenet
Apr 26, 2010

Lol i joined a brazilian raid group for w1.
So now i know fletcher is arrow
cesendo is heart
circurlo or something is circle
and quatro or there abouts is square..

I dont think i picked up any curse words, so i must have been ok. lol

Ive got 12k spirit shards, i should put them to some use i guess.

Hyperlynx
Sep 13, 2015

Meskhenet posted:

Lol i joined a brazilian raid group for w1.
So now i know fletcher is arrow
cesendo is heart
circurlo or something is circle
and quatro or there abouts is square..

I dont think i picked up any curse words, so i must have been ok. lol

Ive got 12k spirit shards, i should put them to some use i guess.

Oh, that's fun! I once joined a Spanish-speaking dungeon group, which I don't speak. I communicated using the emotes, since I knew they are translated :)

FlapYoJacks
Feb 12, 2009
Finished world completion!
Did a bunch of Guild quests today as well! Thanks everyone! This game has a billion mini games and mechanics that I will learn over the next several months. It’s incredibly daunting as a new player!

queeb
Jun 10, 2004

m



whats the new solo hotness lately? It was power mech before and 1 buttoning and doing bonkers damage, has that changed?

Abroham Lincoln
Sep 19, 2011

Note to self: This one's the good one



Power Mech's damage is less insane but it's still very strong. Rifle was toned down, but Jade Dynamo got reworked so there's two power/condi GM traits to pick from. Dynamo gives you fairly high self-quickness uptime and reduces the mech's cooldowns which is handy when you can't get the Jade Bot offensive/defensive boons, like instances or really long boss fights. J-Drive enhances signets and lets their passives work while on CD, which is nice when you do have tons of Jade Bot buffs and don't benefit from extra quickness.

You also need to be in range of your mech once every 10 seconds in combat, or else it loses 50% of its stats. But it's still ridiculously sturdy for soloing anything you want and the damage is high and idiot proof, and unlike a lot of open world builds you can do most everything in full zerkers.

Inzombiac
Mar 19, 2007

PARTY ALL NIGHT

EAT BRAINS ALL DAY


queeb posted:

whats the new solo hotness lately? It was power mech before and 1 buttoning and doing bonkers damage, has that changed?

Firebrand is always a safe bet and they are superb in groups.

Basically all flavors of Rev is a good choice.

DoNotFeedTheBear
Sep 13, 2007
Cele Vindicator is very robust.

Meeko
Sep 15, 2017

That's right! I'm the counting sheep, Meeko. And I'm a proper sheep youkai!

queeb posted:

whats the new solo hotness lately? It was power mech before and 1 buttoning and doing bonkers damage, has that changed?

really depends on what you want to do solo

if you want to fart around, tag stuff, kill, then power mech is still great for that, as is condi pistol/pistol mech. condi scourge, condi daredevil, condi renegade, power virtuoso too.

for soloing hard stuff, celestial vindicator is immortal, power vindicator is somewhat less immortal but still more than enough for anything outside of solo bounties.

Meowywitch
Jan 14, 2010

Fight for all that is beautiful in the world

drat are Scrapper and Holosmith just mid compared to Mech?

bengy81
May 8, 2010

Meowywitch posted:

drat are Scrapper and Holosmith just mid compared to Mech?

Someone in guild was running a power holo build that seemed ridiculous.

whydirt
Apr 18, 2001


Gaz Posting Brigade :c00lbert:
Scrapper and Holo both have good builds, but require more a more active playstyle

mikeycp
Nov 24, 2010

I've changed a lot since I started hanging with Sonic, but I can't depend on him forever. I know I can do this by myself! Okay, Eggman! Bring it on!
anyone got a current sfd discord invite? all the ones everywhere else i can find are dead and i wanna wvw is that a thing they do anymore?

MajorBonnet
May 28, 2009

How did I get here?

mikeycp posted:

anyone got a current sfd discord invite? all the ones everywhere else i can find are dead and i wanna wvw is that a thing they do anymore?

https://discord.gg/starfleetdental

mikeycp
Nov 24, 2010

I've changed a lot since I started hanging with Sonic, but I can't depend on him forever. I know I can do this by myself! Okay, Eggman! Bring it on!
it's saying the link is expired or i don't have permission to join, which i don't know why that would be the case?

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where the red fern gropes
Aug 24, 2011


mikeycp posted:

it's saying the link is expired or i don't have permission to join, which i don't know why that would be the case?

try this one https://discord.gg/KYSeTypF4x

discord is certainly Coded in some manner

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