(Thread IKs:
weg, Toxic Mental)
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Slugworth posted:This is my ultimate concern with Crimea. We can sit and say simplistic things like "they're colonists, they need to leave", but will they? If they don't, what's the plan? I don't love the idea of Ukraine invading a city, even if people here are willing to describe it as liberation. We know what happens when a city is taken by force. It's not right or fair for Crimea to not be returned to Ukraine, but sometimes you can't unfuck something. The time to act was a decade ago, before hundreds of thousands of Russian citizens were transplanted. Early in the war, around the negotiations, Ukraine offered a transitional period of 5 or so years for determining the status of Crimea, with proper international oversight. If things go Ukraine's way militarily (most of all the Kerch bridge and Sevastopol port getting into missile range and taking back the Azov sea coast), I expect that to be on the table again because, contrary to public bravado, Zelensky understands the problem.
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Mar 7, 2023 13:31
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Victis posted:There was zero shortage in potable water, so I'm not sure how the canal applies to any of your quoted Serious Concerns Yeah. If I remember correctly we goons had some heavy discussion about morality of cutting Water and Power to occupied Crimea. Ukraine also stopped paying of pensions for people deciding to stay within occupied territories.
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Mar 7, 2023 13:56
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Ukraine cut off a source of agricultural water, not drinking water. Ukraine has no moral obligation to support the economy of its enemy
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Mar 7, 2023 14:03
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HonorableTB posted:I'm a Native American (muscogee creek tribe ayyy) Stonko! Patriots in Ukraine?? https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1633084485892751363?s=19
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Mar 7, 2023 14:12
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Turtle Watch posted:I agree that the ethnic Russians there are descendants of colonial projects and an ongoing campaign of Russification and that the ones that moved there after 2014 have even less of a claim there than others. But here is where I start to disagree: The people they took Crimea from were Tatars, not Ukrainians,(e:here perhaps I am misinterpreting your use of Ukrainians as ‘ethnic Ukrainians’ and you may have meant ‘people who now would identify as Ukrainian nationals) that census shows a constant trend downward of Tatars and a constant increase of Ukrainian and Russians up until 1959 date. To then argue that we have to evict these descendants of people who took Tatar land and replace them with Ukrainians doesn’t make sense to me. 1) I dont think the crimean tartars were forced out of their homes by Ukrainians - unless you have some valid information i dont have. I thought it was a gradual dilution of ethic identity via imigration and emigration - mostly done by soviet authorities via the various relocation actions they took(ethnic cleansing doesnt have to be by bullet). 2) That doesnt stop ethnic crimeans being ukrainian citizens - which should have some protections - ukraine should probably embrace this. 3) Crimea probably should have some kind of settlement that involves the return of ukrainian rule of law and ownership of property. I dont know how ukrainian law works, but im sure some agreement can be found that doesnt involve ethic cleansing or other sinister actions - there could have UN observers there to check as part of some peace deal. Any Russian there that doesnt like being a ukrainian citizen, i guess should probably move.
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Mar 7, 2023 14:14
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Russia specifically is not exactly friendly to the Crimean Tatars:quote:In March 2014, the annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation unfolded, which was, in turn, declared illegal by the United Nations General Assembly (United Nations General Assembly Resolution 68/262) and which led to further deterioration of the rights of the Crimean Tatars. Even though the Russian Federation issued Decree No. 268 "On the Measures for the Rehabilitation of Armenian, Bulgarian, Greek, Crimean Tatar and German Peoples and the State Support of Their Revival and Development" on 21 April 2014,[96] in practice it has treated Crimean Tatars with far less care. The Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights issued a warning against the Kremlin in 2016 because it "intimidated, harassed and jailed Crimean Tatar representatives, often on dubious charges",[43] while the representative body the Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People was banned.[97] So yeah. Ukraine was indifferent to the Tatars, but Russia is outright antagonistic to them quote:By 2004 the Crimean Tatars formed 12 per cent of the population of Crimea.[93] The return was fraught: with Russian nationalist protests in Crimea and clashes between locals and Crimean Tatars near Yalta, which needed army intervention. Local Soviet authorities were reluctant to help returnees with jobs or housing,[94] After the dissolution of the USSR, Crimea was part of Ukraine, but Kyiv gave limited support to Crimean Tatar settlers. Some 150,000 of the returnees were granted citizenship automatically under Ukraine's Citizenship Law of 1991, but 100,000 who returned after Ukraine declared independence faced several obstacles including a costly bureaucratic process.[95]
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Mar 7, 2023 14:25
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Karma Comedian posted:Patriots in Ukraine?? It's more likely than you think!
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Mar 7, 2023 14:29
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https://twitter.com/Flash_news_ua/status/1633093415624744965
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Mar 7, 2023 14:43
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That... is an explanation for pointless terror attacks I had not considered.
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Mar 7, 2023 14:45
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Geebus… 
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Mar 7, 2023 14:48
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what the hell
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Mar 7, 2023 14:48
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It would be kinda sad if Russia had to rely on informants to figure out if a public object is a military installation or a mall. More likely they don't care or they use doctored language for plausible deniability.
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Mar 7, 2023 14:50
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What the gently caress would make that informant think that any of that poo poo was a good idea? In short: Karate Bastard posted:what the hell
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Mar 7, 2023 14:51
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steinrokkan posted:It would be kinda sad if Russia had to rely on informants to figure out if a public object is a military installation or a mall. More likely they don't care or they use doctored language for plausible deniability. It wouldn't surprise me if he was under direct orders to label civilian shopping centers as military post facto. Terror bombings is a Russian military tradition.
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Mar 7, 2023 14:52
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CommieGIR posted:It wouldn't surprise me if he was under direct orders to label civilian shopping centers as military post facto. Yeah, that's what I meant
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Mar 7, 2023 14:53
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Could be the person they arrested is a real poo poo head. But still weird as hell to missile poo poo based on reports from one single source, so no I'm not handing Russia poo poo
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Mar 7, 2023 14:54
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funeral home DJ posted:What the gently caress would make that informant think that any of that poo poo was a good idea? What made any colonial power feel justified in exterminating/oppressing native inhabitants of territories they occupied or sought to occupy?
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Mar 7, 2023 14:54
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CommieGIR posted:It wouldn't surprise me if he was under direct orders to label civilian shopping centers as military post facto. Or one part of his “chain of command” telling him to do that, and the folks that do targeting not checking of giving a poo poo. Or dude was just a huge piece of poo poo.
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Mar 7, 2023 14:55
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Good luck in prison.
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Mar 7, 2023 14:55
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freeasinbeer posted:Or one part of his “chain of command” telling him to do that, and the folks that do targeting not checking of giving a poo poo. This the same military that actively sought out and targeted hospitals and civilians in Syria. Its a feature of the system, not a bug. When you've openly stated your goal is ethnic cleansing and genocide, any doubt goes out the window that this guy is just a fluke in the system, as if the theater bombing needed any more proof of that.
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Mar 7, 2023 14:56
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Come on people, stop with the tinfoil. Russia has stated numerous times that it doesn't bomb civilian structures. Case closed
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Mar 7, 2023 15:04
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That guy must've worked at a food court or Ukrainian Hot Topic for far too long and it broke him.
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Mar 7, 2023 15:08
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https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1633027452891979776 It's never you assholes' fault, is it? The sheer gall of claiming it was a Russian POW shot by Ukrainians is infuriating enough as it is.
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Mar 7, 2023 15:19
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That is man who is probably going to experience an astoundingly unlucky, and violent, trip down a flight of stairs that bears all the hallmarks of getting the poo poo kicked out of him by multiple assailants at some point between now and getting sent to prison.
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Mar 7, 2023 15:59
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I think he'll be ok.
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Mar 7, 2023 16:08
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Dandywalken posted:I think he'll be ok. I dunno about that, his face has already been... pixelated
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Mar 7, 2023 16:12
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These spies are such poo poo lol Like any time they suspect someone they just have to walk in the front room and see if they have a gigantic Russian flag and Putin bust Yeah the execution of the prisoner was actually done by poles. They demanded he yell "praise be to the Polish Annexation of Ukraine" and they shot him down when he yelled Slava Ukraine
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Mar 7, 2023 16:46
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In Ukranian corruption news: https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1632886655408394241
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Mar 7, 2023 16:46
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"We didn't mean to but there was this one guy, Dave, who.." is a pro defence strategy at the Hague
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Mar 7, 2023 17:09
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fatherboxx posted:Early in the war, around the negotiations, Ukraine offered a transitional period of 5 or so years for determining the status of Crimea, with proper international oversight. If things go Ukraine's way militarily (most of all the Kerch bridge and Sevastopol port getting into missile range and taking back the Azov sea coast), I expect that to be on the table again because, contrary to public bravado, Zelensky understands the problem. yeah and also you want to avoid things like the brno death march or the waves of retribution that followed the end of ww2.
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Mar 7, 2023 17:09
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jimmy mnemonic posted:In Ukranian corruption news: Better not take a bribe, or Semen will be all over you.
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Mar 7, 2023 17:09
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Mf name is semen
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Mar 7, 2023 17:11
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NoiseAnnoys posted:yeah and also you want to avoid things like the brno death march or the waves of retribution that followed the end of ww2. It would absolutely be in everyone's interest to prevent such things from happening. I believe Ukraine understands such situations and will ask for assistance in determining how to approach the situation, while permitting neutral observers and assistance to help with the process.
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Mar 7, 2023 17:11
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His brothers name is splooge
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Mar 7, 2023 17:12
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His sisters name is Actually Female Ejaculate Is Urine
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Mar 7, 2023 17:13
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jimmy mnemonic posted:In Ukranian corruption news: Well OBVIOUSLY you don't want someone that doesn't know corruption to go after corruption. It takes a thief to catch a thief, as the saying goes!
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Mar 7, 2023 17:15
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Karma Comedian posted:Stonko! stonko! Cukoce estvmin likv? this guy is going to get erased so hard it's gonna look like that photo of Stalin with the guys he had liquidated and edited out of the shot
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Mar 7, 2023 17:20
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https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1633136675567153153
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Mar 7, 2023 17:27
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| # ? May 23, 2024 21:43 |
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Brits would kill for a squirrel Even before the war
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Mar 7, 2023 17:29
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