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3D Megadoodoo posted:Not a historical fact, because it's current, but in the Finnish language, people are always referred to as it, except for:
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Mar 6, 2023 10:13
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Wipfmetz posted:.. soooo. You classify "dogs" and "cats" at "some kind of people", right? As much as babies and athletes.
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Mar 6, 2023 10:25
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3D Megadoodoo posted:Human beings are se ("it"), the listed things are hän ("he/she").
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Mar 6, 2023 12:45
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Woebin posted:So you use gendered pronouns for babies, but not for adults? That's wild. We don't use gendered pronouns at all as there are none.
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Mar 6, 2023 12:51
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3D Megadoodoo posted:We don't use gendered pronouns at all as there are none. I'm Swedish, and we sort of took your "hän" and turned it into "hen", which is used as a neutral pronoun - both for non-binary folks and when you don't know the gender of someone or you're speaking more generally so gender isn't specified (so pretty much like singular "they" in English).
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Mar 6, 2023 13:04
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Woebin posted:Right, sorry, I misread your explanation. But if "hän" translates as "he/she", isn't that kind of gendered in the sense that it indicates the person/creature/thing has one of two genders although it's not specified which? No.
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Mar 6, 2023 13:06
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Sounds to me like "he/she" is an inaccurate translation, then.
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Mar 6, 2023 13:12
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Woebin posted:Sounds to me like "he/she" is an inaccurate translation, then. OK? I'm not an English.
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Mar 6, 2023 13:14
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You can also read it as "they", but that too would be incorrect as Finnish doesn't pay attention to someone's gender at all, not even to underline being neutral about it. The division is between "persons" (hän) and everything else (se), but colloquially everything gets grouped as "se", except the aforementioned groups - Jerry did forget to mention that "hän" also is used for relatives one is on contentious terms with.
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Mar 6, 2023 13:16
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You Finns sure are a contentious people.
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Mar 6, 2023 13:17
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Woebin posted:I'm Swedish, and we sort of took your "hän" and turned it into "hen", which is used as a neutral pronoun Wipfmetz has a new favorite as of 13:45 on Mar 6, 2023 |
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Mar 6, 2023 13:41
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Wipfmetz posted:No. A Hen is a female chicken. That's hön, actually.
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Mar 6, 2023 13:53
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In Irish, stail ("stallion") is grammatically feminine. Báid ("boats") are grammatically masculine but referred to with the pronoun (s)í ("she/her"). Cailín ("girl, girlfriend") is also grammatically masculine, but for human referrents speakers are allowed to change the pronouns to match the human's actual gender.
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Mar 6, 2023 19:01
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German also has this. Man and Junge (boy) use the masculine 'der', woman (Frau) uses the feminine 'die', but Mädchen (girl) uses the neuter 'das', because everything that has the diminutive suffix 'chen' is always neuter.
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Mar 7, 2023 07:01
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Red Bones posted:German also has this. Man and Junge (boy) use the masculine 'der', woman (Frau) uses the feminine 'die', but Mädchen (girl) uses the neuter 'das', because everything that has the diminutive suffix 'chen' is always neuter.
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Mar 7, 2023 07:14
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CHIMlord posted:In Irish, stail ("stallion") is grammatically feminine. Báid ("boats") are grammatically masculine but referred to with the pronoun (s)í ("she/her"). Why do I get the feeling there's entire venerable genres of jokes revolving around this?
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Mar 7, 2023 07:29
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bring back the frug, thanks also regarding grammatical gender, lots of languages do it in ways that make no logical sense because they retained old holdovers from PIE or other precursor languages. Slavic languages, for example, have not only grammatical gender but some also have animacy (Polish even goes further into virility) which changes the inflected nouns. But it’s sometimes not linked to the actual thing the noun describes, it’s just morphology. The real trick in Slavic languages isn’t gender though, it’s learning to only use 3 tenses and to use verbal aspect to convey the same effect as English tenses. NoiseAnnoys has a new favorite as of 08:49 on Mar 7, 2023 |
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Mar 7, 2023 08:44
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Next you'll tell me hetero frenchmen aren't constantly courting tables and doors because grammatical gender isn't the same as gender and everyone who speaks a language with it instantly knows it isn't, but it's real funny in english because hahahaha the table is a girl lmao bad dumb language
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Mar 7, 2023 10:39
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Gendered language is so, so dumb.
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Mar 7, 2023 12:13
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And yet anglos still refer to their ships by feminine pronouns. Curious. 
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Mar 7, 2023 12:21
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Next you'll tell me hetero frenchmen aren't constantly courting tables and doors Like bullshit they're not
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Mar 7, 2023 12:27
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I would not put it past the Fr*nch.
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Mar 7, 2023 12:30
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Like bullshit they're not There's a reason French for "I love you" is "shut the door"
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Mar 7, 2023 12:30
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Perestroika posted:And yet anglos still refer to their ships by feminine pronouns. Curious. That's just because of the little man in the boat.
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Mar 7, 2023 23:22
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Perestroika posted:And yet anglos still refer to their ships by feminine pronouns. Curious. Boat guys, famously a normal type of guy who definitely don’t gently caress boats. Calling English-speakers “anglos” just seems weird to me. Is it supposed to be analogous to latinos? Will there be some subgroup insisting that it should be “anglx”?
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Mar 7, 2023 23:28
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thetoughestbean posted:Boat guys, famously a normal type of guy who definitely don’t gently caress boats. It's from Anglo-Saxon, from which the name English is derived. The Angles and Saxons were two groups from northern Germany and southern Denmark who moved into Britain after the Romans pulled out.
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Mar 7, 2023 23:33
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Deteriorata posted:It's from Anglo-Saxon, from which the name English is derived. The Angles and Saxons were two groups from northern Germany and southern Denmark who moved into Britain after the Romans pulled out. No, I know that. I just find it weird to use it to mean English-speakers.
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Mar 7, 2023 23:50
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Weird. I never considered calling somebody "anglo". But now, after this discussion, "english-speakers" reads like some cumbersome politcally correct term for "anglos". Wipfmetz has a new favorite as of 00:12 on Mar 8, 2023 |
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Mar 8, 2023 00:10
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thetoughestbean posted:No, I know that. I just find it weird to use it to mean English-speakers. It's real weird because anglo is more often used to mean white person, which gives the impression that the speaker is dismissing poc anglophones
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Mar 8, 2023 00:12
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thetoughestbean posted:No, I know that. I just find it weird to use it to mean English-speakers. Latino is pretty weird in that case. They don't speak Latin.
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Mar 8, 2023 00:15
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Anglo is a good substitute for Englishmen because the "men" bit is a bit too humanising.
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Mar 8, 2023 00:19
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thetoughestbean posted:Boat guys, famously a normal type of guy who definitely don’t gently caress boats. I have mostly heard the term used by south Americans and afaik the term originated there, so seeing it as analogue to latino is not wrong.
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Mar 8, 2023 00:59
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thetoughestbean posted:Will there be some subgroup insisting that it should be “anglx”? Anglosax, of course
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Mar 8, 2023 02:33
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To me, Anglos refers to the UK and its former settler colonies (USA, Canada, Australia, etc). It's a lot more limited than English speakers: I'd never call an Indian or Nigerian person an Anglo. But same for an Irish person, so it's not simply skincolor based.
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Mar 8, 2023 05:29
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Anglo is reserved for the absolute joke countries that pretend to be modern states but still show worship to a queen on their currency. Americans are not Anglos.
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Mar 8, 2023 05:32
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Gaius Marius posted:Anglo is reserved for the absolute joke countries that pretend to be modern states but still show worship to a queen on their currency. Americans are not Anglos. Is the correct term for Americans, projectors?
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Mar 8, 2023 05:37
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Gaius Marius posted:Anglo is reserved for the absolute joke countries that pretend to be modern states but still show worship to a queen on their currency. Americans are not Anglos. Traditionally, Anglo is a Latin prefix specifically applied to Britain by historians. The Anglo-Dutch War or Anglo-American relations or Anglo-French cooperation or whatever. Anglophones are English-speakers collectively. The economy/culture/interests of England and its English-speaking allies is the Anglosphere. Deteriorata has a new favorite as of 05:42 on Mar 8, 2023 |
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Mar 8, 2023 05:38
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Gaius Marius posted:Anglo is reserved for the absolute joke countries that pretend to be modern states but still show worship to a queen on their currency. Americans are not Anglos.
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Mar 8, 2023 05:46
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i've seen "anglo-american" to refer to the general US/canada cultural continuum, as an equivalent to "latin-american"
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Mar 8, 2023 05:51
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Bourricot posted:The USA were founded by WASP and WASP are still the dominant group from a cultural, political and economical perspective. Yanks are absolutely Anglos I’m of German and Italian descent and was raised Catholic—where would I fall here? Would I be an anglo?
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Mar 8, 2023 06:12
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