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A.o.D. posted:If this happens it'll be a lot worse than any previous military boondoggle the US has been mired in. For one thing the people being abused will be able to walk to where the ones responsible live. For another, I do believe that there would be some minds on the right dreaming up an Ultimate Answer to the Mexican Conundrum. It's the hunt for Pancho Villa, mk II, and would probably be just as dumb.
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Mar 8, 2023 20:21
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Entering Clancychat, on the flip side we'll finally get to see how well Chinese MANPADS and anti-tank weapons work once they start flooding them to the cartels.
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Mar 8, 2023 20:38
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We could call it a War on Drug Gangs. Theres no way we will be able to lose
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Mar 8, 2023 21:01
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Yes, attempting a military occupation of your neighbor has always gone well, just ask Russia
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Mar 8, 2023 21:11
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Handsome Ralph posted:Graham pushing for an all new forever war. Graham has such a hardon for killing brown people. And I would say its some kind of cover act for his homosexuality but, honestly, I think he's just a racist gently caress from South Carolina who also happens to be closeted with an open door.
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Mar 8, 2023 21:15
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I haven't read anything on it, but why is the cartel kidnapping Americans on vacation significant this time? Doesn't the state department usually post warnings of "Hey if you're traveling to mexico, we have limited ways to help you and don't travel to these specific parts because it's real bad."
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Mar 8, 2023 21:44
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Defenestrategy posted:I haven't read anything on it, but why is the cartel kidnapping Americans on vacation significant this time? Doesn't the state department usually post warnings of "Hey if you're traveling to mexico, we have limited ways to help you and don't travel to these specific parts because it's real bad." Because propaganda works. At this time it's a convenient narrative for the right wing hate-o-sphere, so they're blasting it into the minds of tens of millions of people and now we all have to talk about it.
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Mar 8, 2023 21:52
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Defenestrategy posted:I haven't read anything on it, but why is the cartel kidnapping Americans on vacation significant this time? Doesn't the state department usually post warnings of "Hey if you're traveling to mexico, we have limited ways to help you and don't travel to these specific parts because it's real bad." I always thought that to be the case as well. My wife says that all of Mexico is dangerous. Most of her family is still living in South West Mexico, two of her uncles have been kidnapped for ransom. Her family never gets specific regarding threats and/or how things went down, so I never know if it's bad security practices, luck, or they are being specifically targeted. Hopefully I will be visiting late this year, so I might get some better insight.
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Mar 8, 2023 21:53
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Defenestrategy posted:I haven't read anything on it, but why is the cartel kidnapping Americans on vacation significant this time? Doesn't the state department usually post warnings of "Hey if you're traveling to mexico, we have limited ways to help you and don't travel to these specific parts because it's real bad." This one is a little more brutal than typical, apparently they may have mistaken the group for somebody else because they lit up the van first then grabbed two folks and ran off. I've seen some speculation that they thought they were a Haitian gang. It also happened not very far away from the border, rather than deeper into the interior. Normally with a kidnapping there's a lot less violence and there's a ransom negotiation that starts much sooner than this time. It's legitimately a really lovely thing that people shouldn't have to worry about, and the whole Matamoros area on both sides of the border has gotten consistently poo poo on from a great height by both governments. I just don't think deploying US troops would help with that much.
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Mar 8, 2023 21:56
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Notahippie posted:It's the hunt for Pancho Villa, mk II, and would probably be just as dumb. It would be really funny if cormac mccarthy goes down and goes missing like bierce
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Mar 8, 2023 22:09
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I am certainly not in favor of military intervention but the cartels are shockingly horrible. I cannot imagine US military deployment in Mexico not being a complete shitshow for everyone involved, but if you could do it without turning it into Middle East 2 those fuckers would richly deserve it.
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Mar 8, 2023 22:21
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Cool Dad posted:I am certainly not in favor of military intervention but the cartels are shockingly horrible. I cannot imagine US military deployment in Mexico not being a complete shitshow for everyone involved, but if you could do it without turning it into Middle East 2 those fuckers would richly deserve it. So we drum up more bilateral training with our Mexican counterparts and provide funding (with strings and oversight) to stand up more anti cartel task force operations. Why would we put US boots on Mexican soil without it being a part of training we’d been invited to?
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Mar 8, 2023 22:32
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At least the Mexican sociopaths are honest about it.
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Mar 8, 2023 22:33
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a bunch of heavily armed, out of control murderers vs the cartels
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Mar 8, 2023 22:38
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I cannot see US forces in Mexico ending well. We've done far too many interventions in South America that have rarely, if ever, ended well for both the people there and us. Demanding we invade and send in the troops is just the only thing people like Graham and the GOP know how to do. They don't take responsibility for actually solving or dealing with the problems. Just send guys with guns. What's Statecraft?
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Mar 8, 2023 22:52
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We couldn’t even send troops to our own border without it turning into a boondoggle.
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Mar 8, 2023 23:10
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CommieGIR posted:I cannot see US forces in Mexico ending well. We've done far too many interventions in South America that have rarely, if ever, ended well for both the people there and us. God forbid we let them have some of the Colorado river so that farming is a reasonable livelihood in northern Mexico again.
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Mar 8, 2023 23:12
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Military support to Mexico to counter the cartels doesn't seem like a bad idea on paper. Increasing logistic, training, and intelligence support could go a long way. Even placing advisors in a limited capacity could be done to great effect. But there should be ZERO unilateral US military intervention in Mexico. The best way to do it is to have a 100% Mexican face on it, if they even want it. Anything done needs to ensure it does not compromise the sovereignty of Mexico. If we come up with fully fleshed out target packets for a raid or strike, it's the Mexican forces deciding whether or not to conduct the operation. If there is a raid, it is Mexican forces conducting the raid. If there is a success due to American support, the Mexicans take all the credit. If a new unit is stood up, it is not outside of the Mexican chain of command in any way shape or form, it is absolutely underneath the Mexican military or national law enforcement. If asked what the US military/gov is doing in Mexico, we give a generic answer of providing support as requested or something. We do not need to create Mexican death squads outside of their chain of command, it does not work and those guys are liable to go rouge when they decide working under the thumb of Americans isn't in their best interests. Unfortunately if it does happen, it will be done in the most ham fisted way. Politicians will try to brag about all the successes US forces have had from their legislation. Or we'll support a death squad that then breaks bad and fills the vacuum they helped create. Or we'll do a drone campaign with zero support from the Mexican government.
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Mar 8, 2023 23:18
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https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1633582936653025280 https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1633571083994406912 https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1633563262171111424
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Mar 8, 2023 23:25
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Coasterphreak posted:God forbid we let them have some of the Colorado river so that farming is a reasonable livelihood in northern Mexico again. I've never heard about this. Any more info?
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Mar 8, 2023 23:28
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Milo and POTUS posted:I've never heard about this. Any more info? https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/21/the-lost-river-mexicans-fight-for-mighty-waterway-taken-by-the-us
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Mar 8, 2023 23:36
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Too many Americans fail to realize just how powerful and brutal the Cartels are. Some of them have ISIL levels of control in areas, and the same brutality of being children raised into war. Not only that, but some of them are equipped Near Peer levels of tech and individual equipment- poo poo like body worn jammers/ECW, NODs, and armament. They have drones, and their own secure C2 elements. It was just a but ago that the Mexican Government shut down an encrypted and private cell network. It would be like GWOT but worse, with more casualties.
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Mar 8, 2023 23:46
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i remember getting laughed out of GBS years ago for saying that the cartels were well on their way to becoming as bad or worse than middle eastern terrorist organizations. well who's laughing now, fuckers?  ... god i wish i hadn't been right. 
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Mar 8, 2023 23:56
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I in no way want to imply that I think it's a good idea for the US to send soldiers to Mexico. I absolutely think that we will though eventually. There are brown people there who are bothering white people, after all. The problem I see with just supporting Mexico is that I'm pretty sure that if that was going to happen we'd already be doing that. I don't know how powerful the cartels are politically or how much influence they have in the Mexican government, but I suspect that between having a lot of money and being terrifying it's probably a lot.
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Mar 9, 2023 00:00
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Perhaps there could be a school to teach Central and South American military officers to effectively counter cartel activities. I'm not sure what this school would be called, but maybe that would help and not create conditions that lead to this sort of problem again in the future
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Mar 9, 2023 00:09
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The only thing the US could do that would noticeably impact cartel violence is ending prohibition.
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Mar 9, 2023 00:10
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Just my dumb opinion and observation, we're never gonna see the 82nd jumping into Mexico or anything like that and the cartels have been light years ahead of any middle east terrorist organizations in terms of violence, torture, etc for a very long time.
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Mar 9, 2023 00:11
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Pine Cone Jones posted:https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1633582936653025280 I saw the first tweet and thought it was about the cop city protests in Atlanta
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Mar 9, 2023 00:23
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maffew buildings posted:Perhaps there could be a school to teach Central and South American military officers to effectively counter cartel activities. I'm not sure what this school would be called, but maybe that would help and not create conditions that lead to this sort of problem again in the future This could work if those governments were sympathetic to our position. We might have to.... influence some presidents to ensure their cooperation.
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Mar 9, 2023 00:28
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Oh now hear me out, we could sell RUSSIA weapons in their conflict against Ukraine to fund counter cartel activity!
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Mar 9, 2023 00:31
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Hekk posted:So we drum up more bilateral training with our Mexican counterparts and provide funding (with strings and oversight) to stand up more anti cartel task force operations. Because we're out of Iraq and Afghanistan.
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Mar 9, 2023 00:59
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New conspiracy theory: Putin is using his American politicians to steer America into a war with Mexico so America stops helping Ukraine.
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Mar 9, 2023 01:00
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Goddamit can we invade someplace cold and snowy for once? I'm tired of heat. And Operation Pancho Villa Expedition 2.0 is such an incredibly stupid idea, that it scares me that it very well could happen with the way this timeline has been going for the past 20 years.
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Mar 9, 2023 01:02
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The Zimmermann Telegram but Mexico accepts. 😈
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Mar 9, 2023 01:03
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Jimmy Smuts posted:Goddamit can we invade someplace cold and snowy for once? I'm tired of heat. Canada would like to formally object to this
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Mar 9, 2023 01:03
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FrozenVent posted:New conspiracy theory: Putin is using his American politicians to steer America into a war with Mexico so America stops helping Ukraine. As much as I'd object to a war in Mexico, I suspect we'd be able to supply both.
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Mar 9, 2023 01:04
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Kazinsal posted:Canada would like to formally object to this Jimmy Smuts fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Mar 9, 2023 |
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Mar 9, 2023 01:07
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Jimmy Smuts posted:American invasion of Canada, round 3. Canada does have a good amount of sweet, sweet crude right? Sooo Jokes on the people who wanted to get away from the desert for their next deployment, it's all in tar-soaked sands with a wildly swinging climate!
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Mar 9, 2023 01:13
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Jimmy Smuts posted:American invasion of Canada, round 3. Canada does have a good amount of sweet, sweet crude right? Sooo Nah it’s really loving sour actually.
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Mar 9, 2023 01:14
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You’re supposed to boil it after it comes out the tap
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Mar 9, 2023 01:21
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