Navy Thread: SUBJ/TRANSMISSION OF STEAMY BITS//

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SquirrelyPSU: May 27, 2003

PneumonicBook posted:

Neither does rolling airframe missile lol

Not unless the loving EWs drop track on the SLQ 32.

# ? Mar 5, 2023 14:09

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# ? May 28, 2024 10:01

ded: Oct 27, 2005; Kooler than Jesus

Burt posted:

The best fire story I had was in a Greek shipyard where some welders managed to set something on fire the other side of a bulkhead they were working on.

Manager got everyone on deck and started yelling and shouting about how we need to keep more watch on people doing this stuff, it's our responsibility yadda, yadda, yadda, when a dumpster full of wood and cardboard right behind him suddenly burst into flames.

Cue screaming and hard hats getting thrown.

you're supposed to have a fire watch on both sides of the welding work being done

# ? Mar 5, 2023 22:56

lightpole: Jun 4, 2004; I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

ded posted:

you're supposed to have a fire watch on both sides of the welding work being done

Youre also supposed to dispose of sewage and sludge properly but the Chinese just ran those lines right over the side in drydock.

You get what you pay for.

# ? Mar 5, 2023 23:16

Crab Dad: Dec 28, 2002; behold i have tempered and refined thee, but not as silver; as CRAB

Whew. Both my new unit and old unit ok�d my attending fleetweek in writing. Being a part of a managed community is a pain sometimes.

Also lol I saw the current roster for my new unit and it�s about 10 officers and me.

What in tarnation�.

# ? Mar 8, 2023 02:27

BIG HEADLINE: Jun 13, 2006; "Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

Crab Dad posted:

Also lol I saw the current roster for my new unit and it’s about 10 officers and me.

What in tarnation….

See if they'll call you Crab Dad given that the rank structure is gonna be a bit wonky. :v:

# ? Mar 8, 2023 03:24

orange juche: Mar 14, 2012

BIG HEADLINE posted:

See if they'll call you Crab Dad given that the rank structure is gonna be a bit wonky.

They called me by name lol because I was one of like 2 enlisted folks at a command of like 40 people. Out in public/around base it was by rank but in the office it was more casual.

# ? Mar 8, 2023 03:35

Nick Soapdish: Apr 27, 2008

Ekranoplans Could Support EABO

https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2023/march/ekranoplans-could-support-eabo

:yeshaha:

quote:

In a September 2021 YouTube video, two hobbyists fly a remote-controlled ground effect vehicle (GEV), or Ekranoplan, that they built using a design from The Flying Ship Company, in Leesburg, Virginia. In simple terms, ground effect occurs when an aircraft flies less than a wingspan from the ground, where lift is increased because of a “ram” effect and drag is decreased because of weaker wingtip vortices. It took off from and landed on the surface of the water and proved capable even in rough conditions. This category of vehicle—not quite a boat and not quite an airplane, yet offering advantages of each—deserves closer consideration as a future vehicle design for the joint force.

The Soviet Union fielded a massive GEV in 1987, called the Lun-class Ekranoplan, designed to haul a whopping cargo weighing 220,000 to 300,000 pounds. The vehicle flew at airplane speeds just above the surface of the ocean, out of reach of sea mines and torpedoes and evading radars focused high in the sky. Early Ekranoplan prototypes led Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev to boast that the Soviet Union had boats that could “jump over bridges.” An earlier version, called the Orlyonok, could carry 140 soldiers or two fully loaded armored personnel carrier vehicles. The Lun-class featured six rocket launchers along its dorsal edge and greater load capacity. Its operational range was 1,000 nautical miles, and it flew at 16 feet above the surface at 240 knots. Only one of the Lun-class ever made it to the Soviet fleet before the Soviet Union collapsed.

Ekranoplan capabilities have the potential to be enormous, especially considering their use in a widely dispersed theater such as the Indo-Pacific. U.S. Ekranoplans would fit quite nicely into the Marine Corps’ expeditionary advanced base operations (EABO) concept as well as both blue-water and littoral Navy operations. Not only would Ekranoplans be an option for future Marine ship-to-shore connector vehicles, but they also have the potential to cut out the need for vulnerable transport ships; an Ekranoplan with a 1,000 nm range could serve as an island-to-island connector. It would travel from beachside to beachside with the ability to take off and land from the surface of the water, dramatically expanding the Marine Corps’ lines of communication in EABO. Such a capability would reduce Marine Corps reliance on the Navy, while at the same time increasing its ability to support it. EAB sustainment will be critical for the capacity of Marine littoral regiments to offer support for the fight at sea.

Ekranoplans have potential in a variety of roles currently played by surface ships, including variants that could be small, unmanned, and loaded with sensors. These might be solar powered, loitering in designated areas until needed. Larger unmanned ones might feature hypersonic missiles and directed-energy weapons. A fleet of ground-effect drones could enable the Navy to connect sensor to shooter across wide swaths of the Indo-Pacific, reducing demand for large, slow, vulnerable ships. They could also be trans-media, submerging to avoid weather or airborne threats. Small trans-media Ekranoplan attack drones would add a stealth factor and complicate the adversary’s targeting solution. Medium-size cargo variants could serve as ship-to-shore connectors or ship-to-ship connectors with folding wings to fit inside well decks, speeding up replenishment at sea, among other missions. Larger attack variants might possess the offensive abilities of a conventional frigate or destroyer while traveling at airplane speeds.

In 2002, Boeing unveiled a GEV design called the Pelican, which would have been the largest plane ever built. The design claimed a cargo capacity of 1,400 tons—ten times that of the C-5A Galaxy—and could be flown at 20,000 feet over land, but just 20 feet over water to capture ground effect. The Pelican design proposed four propellers rather than turbofan engines. The Pelicans would have the capacity to transport Marine units from Southern California to austere western Pacific locations overnight, for example, without having to rely on vulnerable strategic airlift assets or known airport debarkation locations. If small modular nuclear reactors someday move from research and development into commercially viable products, they could potentially power Ekranoplans, giving them effectively unlimited range. There are many obstacles to overcome, from regulatory approval to risks associated with aircraft crashing, but the potential benefits would be significant.

The Ekranoplan concept offers the United States a solution to several problems involved in contested zones covered by antiaccess/area-denial systems, from cargo loads normally associated with relatively slow ships to maneuver below antiair radar systems yet above sea mines and torpedoes, all at aircraft speeds, complicating the adversary’s targeting solution. It dramatically reduces the tyranny of distance and takes off and lands on the water, eliminating the requirement for fixed, targetable airstrips, while allowing Marines to depend less on the Navy for transport yet enhancing their ability to assist the Navy in multiple domains. Finally, Ekranoplans could enhance the kill chain with drone Ekranoplans operating at scale with artificial intelligence to sense, communicate, and shoot.

The United States is fortunate that the Soviets never fielded a fleet of Ekranoplans and luckier still that its current adversaries have not yet fielded newer GEVs at scale. But China is testing a GEV called the XTW. Mastering the GEV design will dramatically improve China’s long-range amphibious capabilities, allowing the People’s Liberation Army to rapidly move equipment and personnel in the first island chain.

The joint force should start cautiously, with small, cheap drones being used as sensors. These would offer an excellent opportunity to experiment with trans-media technology, engineering them to submerge and loiter underwater. In the medium term, the Navy–Marine Corps team should evaluate Ekranoplans as ship-to-shore connectors. Such vehicles would allow dramatically improved standoff distances for ships supporting amphibious assaults. In the long term, the services should evaluate large designs, such as DARPA’s proposed Liberty Lifter, for strategic airlift and sealift operations. The Ekranoplan is not a new concept, but it deserves renewed interest and recognition as a solution to important issues facing the joint force.

# ? Mar 10, 2023 01:25

A.o.D.: Jan 15, 2006

EABO is just one letter away from 'eat a bowl of dicks'.

# ? Mar 10, 2023 01:31

Jimmy4400nav: Apr 1, 2011; Ambassador to Moonlandia

Nick Soapdish posted:

Ekranoplans Could Support EABO

https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2023/march/ekranoplans-could-support-eabo

I admit I don't know my sea stuff well, but isnt the massive flaw with large ground effect vessels that anything higher than sea state 3 grounds them?

# ? Mar 10, 2023 01:39

FrozenVent: May 1, 2009; The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

Yeah.

# ? Mar 10, 2023 01:51

Lemniscate Blue: Apr 21, 2006; Here we go again.

A.o.D. posted:

EABO is just one letter away from 'eat a bowl of dicks'.

lol, EABO'D

# ? Mar 10, 2023 02:24

A.o.D.: Jan 15, 2006

What's the roughest sea state you can be reasonably expected to conduct amphibious operations in?

# ? Mar 10, 2023 02:28

Crab Dad: Dec 28, 2002; behold i have tempered and refined thee, but not as silver; as CRAB

A.o.D. posted:

What's the roughest sea state you can be reasonably expected to conduct amphibious operations in?

More than once and successfully?
Hard to say.

Need a carrier/tender. Would be huuuuge.

# ? Mar 10, 2023 02:32

A.o.D.: Jan 15, 2006

Crab Dad posted:

More than once and successfully?
Hard to say.

Need a carrier/tender. Would be huuuuge.

I mean with conventional landing craft and support ships.

# ? Mar 10, 2023 02:34

orange juche: Mar 14, 2012

A.o.D. posted:

What's the roughest sea state you can be reasonably expected to conduct amphibious operations in?

How much do you care about the folks landing and their lunch?

# ? Mar 10, 2023 02:35

Deus Ex Macklemore: Jul 2, 2004; Zelensky's Zealots

orange juche posted:

How much do you care about the folks landing and their lunch?

My first two years I was on a Newport class LST and the battle doctrine for those was "we don't".

I mean sure, there was a plan on how to get back off the beach but there are also escape hoods on submarines. Same same works fine in training situations and makes moms and congressmen happy. Fairly useless in practical applications

# ? Mar 10, 2023 04:12

M_Gargantua: Oct 16, 2006; STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES; Exciting Lemon

That article goes from somewhat reasonable to "put a small moduler reactor in an ekranoplane lmao"

# ? Mar 10, 2023 17:04

Madurai: Jun 26, 2012

This was a bad idea in the 1950s with the R3Y Tradewind, even before the engine issues, and it hasn't gotten better since.

# ? Mar 10, 2023 20:37

Lemniscate Blue: Apr 21, 2006; Here we go again.

Madurai posted:

This was a bad idea in the 1950s with the R3Y Tradewind, even before the engine issues, and it hasn't gotten better since.

Flying boats are sexy as all hell and it's a goddamn shame that they don't really have more of a place in aviation today.

The price of progress.

# ? Mar 10, 2023 22:22

SquirrelyPSU: May 27, 2003

Large sea states on an aircraft carrier just mean secure for sea (seriously) and naptime. The bit off NoCal/Oregon where you make the bend and waves go to 20 feet. *chefs kiss*. I will be in my rack being hammocked to sleep for 12 hours please and thank you.

# ? Mar 11, 2023 02:25

lightpole: Jun 4, 2004; I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

Point Conception around Santa Barbara you turn north and start to get hit and then the coast north is just kinda the same level of lovely, maybe a bit worse around Eureka. You can get some good AK storms running right into Juan de Fuca so kinda depends on whats coming out of the Gulf.

The lovely chop is just the normal condition there, the rollers are all AK poo poo.

lightpole fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Mar 11, 2023

# ? Mar 11, 2023 02:56

CMD598: Apr 12, 2013

Jimmy4400nav posted:

I admit I don't know my sea stuff well, but isnt the massive flaw with large ground effect vessels that anything higher than sea state 3 grounds them?

Probably depends on how big it is.

# ? Mar 11, 2023 12:40

Xakura: Jan 10, 2019; A safety-conscious little mouse!

The height of the ground effect scales with wingspan, so a larger one can cruise higher.

# ? Mar 11, 2023 12:47

CMD598: Apr 12, 2013

I would imagine the larger it is the more sea state it can handle.

# ? Mar 11, 2023 13:02

A.o.D.: Jan 15, 2006

We've already got LCACs and they're incredibly sea state sensitive. Landing craft in general aren't the best at sea keeping, so I don't see how it's a non-starter for an Ekranoplan.

# ? Mar 11, 2023 13:22

ZekeNY: Jun 13, 2013; Probably AFK

I just hope all of this gives somebody an excuse to buy a few of these cool Japanese seaplanes. They'll still go ahead with the C-130 on floats nonsense instead.

# ? Mar 11, 2023 13:39

Elviscat: Jan 1, 2008; Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

Reflecting today that I'll never again know the sweet, sweet joy of having the midwatch for DST, and getting off watch and in the rack an hour early.

# ? Mar 12, 2023 02:56

slurm: Jul 28, 2022; by Hand Knit

What if we just retarded an hour every day for 23 days instead of advancing?

# ? Mar 12, 2023 04:35

Elviscat: Jan 1, 2008; Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

Shift all clocks to Zulu time permanently, so many problems solved.

# ? Mar 12, 2023 05:49

IncredibleIgloo: Feb 17, 2011

Elviscat posted:

Shift all clocks to Zulu time permanently, so many problems solved.

Just get stationed in Antarctica. Bing bong, so simple.

# ? Mar 12, 2023 05:58

FrozenVent: May 1, 2009; The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

Worst is when you�re on a foreign ship and they do 20 minutes a watch. gently caress that noise.

# ? Mar 12, 2023 06:10

lightpole: Jun 4, 2004; I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

Gross. Advance 1 hour at 0900, one hour at 1400, one hour at 1900. 3 hours a day until you're on local at destination.

# ? Mar 12, 2023 08:47

Elviscat: Jan 1, 2008; Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

The correct answer is to shift clocks and not gently caress with the watchbill at all.

The "my captain's a lunatic" answer is to dog watches until day shift has caught up with the daytime again.

# ? Mar 12, 2023 10:58

Nystral: Feb 6, 2002; Every man likes a pretty girl with him at a skeleton dance.

How do crews handle time zone changes? I know on transatlantic cruises they shift an hour at noon every day when they cross a TZ but does that mirror life on non-leisure ships as well?

# ? Mar 12, 2023 13:12

SquirrelyPSU: May 27, 2003

Nystral posted:

How do crews handle time zone changes? I know on transatlantic cruises they shift an hour at noon every day when they cross a TZ but does that mirror life on non-leisure ships as well?

1900 once a day if I remember correctly.

# ? Mar 12, 2023 14:19

IncredibleIgloo: Feb 17, 2011

On the Lincoln in 2006 we would retard or advance clocks at 0200.

# ? Mar 12, 2023 16:40

SquirrelyPSU: May 27, 2003

IncredibleIgloo posted:

On the Lincoln in 2006 we would retard or advance clocks at 0200.

Interesting, I figured that would have been hard coded in somewhere. 2007-8 and 2010 were definitely 1900 because they would do that then start the countdown for GQ drills.

# ? Mar 12, 2023 16:54

FrozenVent: May 1, 2009; The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

Nystral posted:

How do crews handle time zone changes? I know on transatlantic cruises they shift an hour at noon every day when they cross a TZ but does that mirror life on non-leisure ships as well?

Cargo ships we�d either do it at midnight and the second mate would get the OT, or do the 20 minutes a watch each night watch if the captain was an absolute maniac. On the cruise ships we�d do it at midnight I think? It�s been a while.

Great Lakes boat stay on the office�s time for simplicity, because you can do Thunder Bay - Duluth in less than a day. It�s especially fun when you run from Superior to St John�s Newfoundland.

# ? Mar 12, 2023 17:33

Serjeant Buzfuz: Dec 5, 2009

I seem to recall on both my deployments we liked to shift clocks during the midwatch, usually 0200.

# ? Mar 12, 2023 17:38

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# ? May 28, 2024 10:01

Cerekk: Sep 24, 2004; Oh my god, JC!

Set clocks forward at 2200 so you get a full day's work out of the whole crew without messing with officers' sleep; set clocks back during field day to get an extra hour of cleaning.

# ? Mar 12, 2023 17:41

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > Navy Thread: SUBJ/TRANSMISSION OF STEAMY BITS//

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