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Weka posted:How is Ukraine not a full on proxy war? the West doesn't want to pay for it
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Mar 10, 2023 03:41
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lol I’m liking google today:
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Mar 10, 2023 03:44
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Danann posted:(from t.me/presstv/61614, via tgsa) What kind of missiles does the speed boat swarm carry?
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Mar 10, 2023 03:47
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more shovel porn https://i.imgur.com/kiqJvUc.mp4 slops on forget about st javelin, im all in on shovel musicians now
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Mar 10, 2023 03:56
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Weka posted:Henry Kasandringer. Because Russia isn't using a proxy, hence the half proxy war part.
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Mar 10, 2023 03:58
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Azathoth posted:The war with China stuff feels like the MIC going for one more big score, but it's hard to see how the remainder of the capital class lets anything get anywhere beyond sailing our big, expensive aircraft carriers around and the military waving their collective dicks out the portholes. the mic wants it, energy wants it, industrial capital wants it (bc they hate finance capital), and bidens done nothing but stay the course so I don’t think the other capitals have much of a say
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Mar 10, 2023 04:04
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Slavvy posted:What kind of missiles does the speed boat swarm carry? Not entirely clear what the new ones are. Found one article that said they are Ashura and Tariq class, which are things they don't seem to be unless those are new class names. I'd guess they're using the 107mm MLRS but with some guided missiles instead of rockets. That's dinky but those are obviously not meant to take out big ships. There are a variety of boats Iran has that people call "speedboats with missiles". Here's an unsourced image of some.  Some of the bigger ones there are probably https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peykaap_II-class_missile_boat?useskin=vector or similar which have actual cruise missiles with like 35 or 150kg warheads (~150kg is like an Exocet or the Neptune missiles that got the Moskva). Not sure what the 107mm MLRS are for. The old timey rocket versions have like a 9kg payload. Still if anything blows up anywhere near a carriers it's basically lost. The little speedboats also probably have mines, torpedoes, and also if they are near a carrier so are a bunch of the big land-based or big ship-based cruise missiles. Also little submarines.
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Mar 10, 2023 04:15
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They're pretty much the eve online angry bee swarm tackler ship thing. also even if the dinkiest explosion hit the conning tower or pretty much anywhere on a carrier it's already dead, loving off at 50+ knots (they are the fast as gently caress), or incapable of doing anything because it's lost most of its eyes and ears. also figure this might fit here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVQBV4J8Yqg
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Mar 10, 2023 04:19
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Cuttlefush posted:Tariq class, Iran is gonna buck-break the US Navy
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Mar 10, 2023 04:26
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Mar 10, 2023 04:39
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The Oldest Man posted:Including elites who think they can shove their dicks right up to the bandsaw and everything will be fine because they're JIT-brained dipshits who don't understand some things can't be stopped once started and have never had to face a generational crisis of any kind covid was a generational crisis
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Mar 10, 2023 06:39
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Frosted Flake posted:The Late Victorian British Empire is interesting too because it invaded Ethiopia and Tibet for no real reasons anyone could explain or defend, just the failsons had started to take over, and they had all the machinery, so… Pretty borders faction is always powerful
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Mar 10, 2023 06:45
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wasn't the tibet thing just brainrot leftover from the great game?
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Mar 10, 2023 06:49
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it has been a long time since I saw a free tibet bumper sticker
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Mar 10, 2023 08:13
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bedpan posted:it has been a long time since I saw a free tibet bumper sticker Well yeah that matter is finished since 1959 
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Mar 10, 2023 09:48
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https://twitter.com/clary_co/status/1633845357678559232 think tanks love lawyer people huh
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Mar 10, 2023 11:07
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Cuttlefush posted:idk about that. seems like it depends on who you're calling media and how you're defining consensus though. and possible. and some otehrs tuff maybe Yeah this is what this discussion would devolve to, and I'm not super interested in getting in the weeds. But anyone looking at the events of the last few years who doesn't believe the media apparatus can whip up war fervor from nothing either isn't paying attention or defines any degree of ineffective counternarrative as lack of consensus.
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Mar 10, 2023 12:53
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The question isn’t whipping up a war fervor over some random country in a colonial operation that doesn’t effect anyone but actually fighting a war that may require mobilization and economic restructuring (or at very least a drastic change in the quality of the life of the population). China isn’t Iraq or Libya, if anything the US would be going into probably a losing conflict where a lot of Americans would be killed and it probably wouldn’t effect China as much.
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Mar 10, 2023 13:33
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Relevant Tangent posted:covid was a generational crisis
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Mar 10, 2023 13:33
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wait, is the contention that they* handled covid well or like, at all? because I was under the impression they'd done a mass social murder for basically no reason after massively loving it up in a way that would ultimately destroy wealth due to the mass death and disablement it's not a thing I would point to as evidence of being able to handle anything * - to the extent there's a "they" and not a loose collection of similarly minded failsons spread across government, industry, law and finance
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Mar 10, 2023 13:37
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Relevant Tangent posted:covid *is
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Mar 10, 2023 13:49
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I would have thought that WWI, and particularly the about face taken by the United States, would have taught us that any argument that concluded a Great War cannot happen or could not be sold to the populace is mistaken. But sure, if you simply assert that the media landscape has changed in spite of all recent events, fine. As others have said, look at how easily hatred of China or Russia has been fanned, the propaganda mobilized in that effort, and honestly tell me that if the US could not push all the way. Doesn't make sense to me.
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Mar 10, 2023 14:24
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Ardennes posted:The question isn’t whipping up a war fervor over some random country in a colonial operation that doesn’t effect anyone but actually fighting a war that may require mobilization and economic restructuring (or at very least a drastic change in the quality of the life of the population). Thats the exact thing that occurred to me today. In focusing on how the US could or could not get away with doing a draft in the modern era we overlook something even more important than that, the restructuring of the economy that is necessary to fight a total war. The US in essence had a direct command economy and strict rationing during both world wars, no American politician is capable of doing that today, PR speak and platitudes aren't a substitute for neeeing to supply and feed and even bigger army necessary to fight a global war. Would Joe Brandon, Meatball Ron, or loving Mayor Ratboy, introduce rationing? COVID really was the test of could modern American society meet the challenge that a World War would entail and it failed miserably.
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Mar 10, 2023 14:50
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The difference of course is that no one in power cared about COVID once it was clear the ruling class could be shielded from it. In the early stages, when it seemed to be a real crisis akin to the 2008 bank crash, those sorts of controls were implemented, vaccines were fast tracked, and enormous resources were bent toward the effort. That wained over time both for partisan reasons but also because there was simply no desire to do so if the people bearing the burden were only workers. Are we really arguing that the US, pushed or pushing itself into a no poo poo confrontation with China or Russia, wouldn't pull out all the fascist tricks?
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Mar 10, 2023 14:58
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It doesnt matter how many fascist tricks the US pulls if something like subborning capitalism to needs of the State is impossible in modern American society. Again is anyone in American political class capable of saying no corporations you have to produce what we tell you to keep the war effort going and introduce rationing so that the American people have access to basic food stuffs? These Mckinsey assholes that run American governance are going to do any of that? Which is going to lead to mass social upheaval when mass harship introduced by total war (assuming nuclear war doesnt end it quickly) make living actually impossible. Tell.me which Ameircan politician is capable of introducing rationing or increasing war production to fight a world war, where currently were seeing boutique numbers of missles made to replace stocks sent to Ukraine
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Mar 10, 2023 15:10
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PhilippAchtel posted:I would have thought that WWI, and particularly the about face taken by the United States, would have taught us that any argument that concluded a Great War cannot happen or could not be sold to the populace is mistaken. IIRC WW1 wasn't really 'sold' to the American population. They hoped to get a million volunteers and got less then half of that so they had to resort to conscription. The heavy hand of the government was used to suppress dissent pretty quickly as well.
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Mar 10, 2023 15:48
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and destroy German American culture in the midwest
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Mar 10, 2023 15:51
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sullat posted:IIRC WW1 wasn't really 'sold' to the American population. They hoped to get a million volunteers and got less then half of that so they had to resort to conscription. The heavy hand of the government was used to suppress dissent pretty quickly as well. It was also a relatively short war for the Americans that ended in victory and relatively low casualties (for the period). That is the thing, fascism actually isn’t really that great at total war. The entire point of fascism is to keep capital entrenched at all costs, a factor that is often directly contrary what you need to win a real peer to peer conflict. You could argue the MIC could ram rod the US into it, but all of the structure needed to sustain such a war just doesn’t exist. I think this is at the core of what people don’t get about fascism.
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Mar 10, 2023 15:58
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Frosted Flake posted:and destroy German American culture in the midwest It is always funny-sad that this happened not because of the grand crusade to stop a genocidal madman but because of the glorified debt collection
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Mar 10, 2023 16:10
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https://twitter.com/JasonMBrodsky/status/1634136382011572224
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Mar 10, 2023 16:11
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lol if russia can't reverse-engineer those themselves what does that say about russian tech
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Mar 10, 2023 16:19
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Relevant Tangent posted:lol if russia can't reverse-engineer those themselves what does that say about russian tech You couldn't even read a CNN story.
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Mar 10, 2023 16:23
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Ardennes posted:It was also a relatively short war for the Americans that ended in victory and relatively low casualties (for the period). Thats the other thing, Germany didnt swtich over to a total war model till what 42, 43? And even than their tank prodution was workshop focused not assmebly line. Plus the funded dozens of redundant super weapon ideas. Jesus it is funny just how much the US has emulated them. Surely this has nothing to do with why everything is collasping
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Mar 10, 2023 16:28
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Ardennes posted:You couldn't even read a CNN story. not bothering to read propaganda surely that's all cnn is?
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Mar 10, 2023 16:30
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Why would Russia not just like, send a guy to teach Iran how an Igla works or whatever?
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Mar 10, 2023 16:31
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KomradeX posted:Thats the other thing, Germany didnt swtich over to a total war model till what 42, 43? And even than their tank prodution was workshop focused not assmebly line. Plus the funded dozens of redundant super weapon ideas. Jesus it is funny just how much the US has emulated them. Surely this has nothing to do with why everything is collasping It was about mid-1943 when they made the switch, roughly equivalent to when the Eastern Front started to turn against them. It really can't be overstated just how many times they said "okay, now Soviet Russia is finished, they surely will surrender now" and then loving nope, they just kept fighting.
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Mar 10, 2023 16:45
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Relevant Tangent posted:not bothering to read propaganda So what did you read then?
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Mar 10, 2023 16:46
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Buffer posted:Why would Russia not just like, send a guy to teach Iran how an Igla works or whatever? They already have a bunch of comparable systems, it is probably more about just weapons testing on their own systems. Can a Karrar take a shot from a Javelin?
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Mar 10, 2023 16:52
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KomradeX posted:Thats the other thing, Germany didnt swtich over to a total war model till what 42, 43? And even than their tank prodution was workshop focused not assmebly line. Plus the funded dozens of redundant super weapon ideas. Jesus it is funny just how much the US has emulated them. Surely this has nothing to do with why everything is collasping Speer got production to rapidly increase in 42, but really he only had full control of the economy by mid-1943, and by Autumn 1944 production dropped off as bombing and resources both became an issue. There was never serious nationalization (as the Nazis were fighting FOR those owners), and as mentioned, German techniques even during 'total war" were slow and antiquated and many German designs were not really appropriate for the war they were fighting. Even during total war after mid-1943, the German government was merely "working alongside" German industry by giving them everything they wanted including what remaining resources and slave labor, and in turn, the results provided by industry were underwhelming compared to allied output. Ah well double post Ardennes has issued a correction as of 17:25 on Mar 10, 2023 |
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Mar 10, 2023 17:00
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Lostconfused posted:So what did you read then? twitter headline
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Mar 10, 2023 17:00
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