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The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Judge Tesla posted:

The real secret to Nioh is realizing its using Diablo as a base in addition to Souls, those thousand swords all feeling the same is deliberate since you'll only keep the one with the stats you want it to have.

I mean yeah, I get it, I just think adding a Diablo loot management layer to the game sucks big time.

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Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

The Moon Monster posted:

I mean yeah, I get it, I just think adding a Diablo loot management layer to the game sucks big time.

I feel like the only time I've seen Diablo-style loot actually add to a game rather than take away from it was Borderlands, which realized that shooters already work best with a diversity of weapon types, and then made even those weapon types have weirder sub-types. So it throws all those weapons at you, but they're meaningfully different to the point where it rarely feels like you're just getting 'another shotgun'.

Unfortunately, Borderlands introduced a lovely combo there of having both item levels and item rarity governing strength, so it's entirely possible for your kit to get worse as you go because you play past the point an early high-rarity weapon is obsolete, but can't find a weapon of similar rarity.

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011



Nightmare Reaper was good on the Diablo-style loot, where you had your usual "+10% damage" type modifiers, but also stuff like "Weapon's projectile is randomized" so you can end up with, say, a shotgun that fires explosive napalm instead of the scattershot pellets. As in, you still get the amount of shots out of the barrel, but it's 12 large balls of fire. Or a machine gun that fire lasers.

Shame that you can only carry 1 gun forward.

SkeletonHero
Sep 7, 2010

:dehumanize:
:killing:
:dehumanize:
You can eventually carry two, but once I found an auto-shotgun that fired cannonballs* I never really found anything useful enough to fill that second slot with.

*Cannonballs as large as enemies are tall and with physics to bounce around hitting multiple times!

Zero_Grade
Mar 18, 2004

Darktider 🖤🌊

~Neck Angels~

Cleretic posted:

I feel like the only time I've seen Diablo-style loot actually add to a game rather than take away from it was Borderlands, which realized that shooters already work best with a diversity of weapon types, and then made even those weapon types have weirder sub-types. So it throws all those weapons at you, but they're meaningfully different to the point where it rarely feels like you're just getting 'another shotgun'.

Unfortunately, Borderlands introduced a lovely combo there of having both item levels and item rarity governing strength, so it's entirely possible for your kit to get worse as you go because you play past the point an early high-rarity weapon is obsolete, but can't find a weapon of similar rarity.
I dunno, I liked how you'd occasionally luck into a gun with good stats + niche ability that ends up being useful far longer than it 'should' be. I was using a sniper rifle leveled somewhere in the 20s or 30s when I first beat BL2. It was neat carrying it around for so long! You do end up with vast amounts of vendor trash though.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
Literally every loot game is dragged down by stuffing drop pools with garbage in order to make rare drops feel more special.

Tall Tale Teller
May 20, 2003
Grave? Shovel! Let's go.

John Murdoch posted:

Literally every loot game is dragged down by stuffing drop pools with garbage in order to make rare drops feel more special.

Yeah no poo poo. Please give me the dopamine thank you.

Walton Simons
May 16, 2010

ELECTRONIC OLD MEN RUNNING THE WORLD

BioEnchanted posted:

While it's a cool level, the Monastery in Tomb Raider 2 in Tibet has some NASTY ambushes and it's really REALLY big. Got some cool keys though, like the prayer wheels.

I love that level but it is hard combat-wise, I remember my dad burning through all his health packs because he'd aggroed the monks at the very start and didn't know it was possible for them to ignore Lara.

Post poste
Mar 29, 2010

John Murdoch posted:

Literally every loot game is dragged down by stuffing drop pools with garbage in order to make rare drops feel more special.

I've used this idea to successfully crush game devs!
After a bit of mulling it over, they see the light in not having low or no quality items, and eliminate the tier of "Boringest item without affixes or prefixes" tier.

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




Tall Tale Teller posted:

Yeah no poo poo. Please give me the dopamine thank you.

It's a shame things aren't better organized. You'd think Vampire Survivor's design would be enough to make more games built with all good stuff like that.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Phoenix wright: justice for all is a bit nitpicky about presenting evidence, it's kind of annoying to have the answer and get punished because you didn't present it exactly like the game wanted you to.

One character has multiple profiles but picking the wrong one gets a game over.

Tunicate has a new favorite as of 21:55 on Mar 10, 2023

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Post poste posted:

I've used this idea to successfully crush game devs!
After a bit of mulling it over, they see the light in not having low or no quality items, and eliminate the tier of "Boringest item without affixes or prefixes" tier.

On the other hand you have (well, had) Marvel Heroes. It was so ridiculous the loot kinda came back around on me.



For tiers of rarity you had

Orange (usable)
Yellow (leveling gear)
Purple (trash)
Blue (trash)
Green (trash)
White (trash)
Grey (so rare some thought it to only be legend, but also trash)

Not to mention plenty of other items that didn't fall on the scale like artifacts (red) or runes (pink) or exp orbs (orb) and etc.

bawk
Mar 31, 2013

The Moon Monster posted:

On the other hand you have (well, had) Marvel Heroes. It was so ridiculous the loot kinda came back around on me.



For tiers of rarity you had

Orange (usable)
Yellow (leveling gear)
Purple (trash)
Blue (trash)
Green (trash)
White (trash)
Grey (so rare some thought it to only be legend, but also trash)

Not to mention plenty of other items that didn't fall on the scale like artifacts (red) or runes (pink) or exp orbs (orb) and etc.

I instinctively started clicking my mouse to pick this all up and start sorting through it

Arrath
Apr 14, 2011


The Moon Monster posted:

On the other hand you have (well, had) Marvel Heroes. It was so ridiculous the loot kinda came back around on me.



For tiers of rarity you had

Orange (usable)
Yellow (leveling gear)
Purple (trash)
Blue (trash)
Green (trash)
White (trash)
Grey (so rare some thought it to only be legend, but also trash)

Not to mention plenty of other items that didn't fall on the scale like artifacts (red) or runes (pink) or exp orbs (orb) and etc.

Let me guess, the game doesn't support a loot list filter set up like Path of Exile.

Meowywitch
Jan 14, 2010

Fight for all that is beautiful in the world

Marvel Heroes loving ruled and shame on them for shuttering it

PhazonLink
Jul 17, 2010

Tunicate posted:

Phoenix wright: justice for all is a bit nitpicky about presenting evidence, it's kind of annoying to have the answer and get punished because you didn't present it exactly like the game wanted you to.

One character has multiple profiles but picking the wrong one gets a game over.

since youre playing through the game.

does the circus case deserve the reputation of worse case in the whole series?

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

PhazonLink posted:

since youre playing through the game.

does the circus case deserve the reputation of worse case in the whole series?

Its pretty bad, the case is only complicated due to a total unexpected fluke accident which helped the perp, and a key piece of evidence halfway through immediately answers all the interesting questions about the case, which keeps dragging on and on after that.

Also if a monkey steals something and helps the murderer, the judge should let me call the monkey an accomplice.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!
I've finally put my finger on the thing that's really dragging down Xenoblade Chronicles 1 for me: most of the cast becomes very bland once they leave their 'hometown' zone that their actual story is built around.

Reyn and Riki aren't 'just comic relief' when they first turn up (although that's their broad role), but that's definitely what they turn into. Sharla and Dunban are fairly compelling when you first meet them, but once you leave the Colonies Sharla just becomes the comic foil/romantic interest for Reyn, and Dunban might as well just not exist. I've only just left Melia's hometown, but I can already see it happening to her. Shulk's the only one that really escapes this, but... well, Shulk's not exactly capable of carrying the entire weight of the storytelling here.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Arrath posted:

Let me guess, the game doesn't support a loot list filter set up like Path of Exile.

No it did, I think it let you automulch anything lower than yellow, but maybe it just ignored it, I don't quite remember.

Nuebot
Feb 18, 2013

The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

Arrath posted:

Let me guess, the game doesn't support a loot list filter set up like Path of Exile.

Any game with lots of trash loot that doesn't have some kind of loot filter is automatically the worst. Nioh, for example, did not. And at first you're like "Oh, cool, I guess I can at least break down all this trash I pick up at the black smith, right?" But no, not really. Because the crafting items are tiered as well. So rare items make rare materials, common items make common materials and normal items make normal materials and you will never ever be crafting anything but the best poo poo. It's just a lot of unreasonable bloat to make it look like a lot more is going on than there actually is.

Sally
Jan 9, 2007


Don't post Small Dash!

Cleretic posted:

I've finally put my finger on the thing that's really dragging down Xenoblade Chronicles 1 for me: most of the cast becomes very bland once they leave their 'hometown' zone that their actual story is built around.

Reyn and Riki aren't 'just comic relief' when they first turn up (although that's their broad role), but that's definitely what they turn into. Sharla and Dunban are fairly compelling when you first meet them, but once you leave the Colonies Sharla just becomes the comic foil/romantic interest for Reyn, and Dunban might as well just not exist. I've only just left Melia's hometown, but I can already see it happening to her. Shulk's the only one that really escapes this, but... well, Shulk's not exactly capable of carrying the entire weight of the storytelling here.

you cant have a rainbow without Reyn!!

Crowetron
Apr 29, 2009

Nuebot posted:

Any game with lots of trash loot that doesn't have some kind of loot filter is automatically the worst. Nioh, for example, did not. And at first you're like "Oh, cool, I guess I can at least break down all this trash I pick up at the black smith, right?" But no, not really. Because the crafting items are tiered as well. So rare items make rare materials, common items make common materials and normal items make normal materials and you will never ever be crafting anything but the best poo poo. It's just a lot of unreasonable bloat to make it look like a lot more is going on than there actually is.

Maybe they patched it in after you played but Nioh does have a loot filter in the options. You can set it to just not bother letting you pick up gear under your chosen rarity.

Nuebot
Feb 18, 2013

The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

Crowetron posted:

Maybe they patched it in after you played but Nioh does have a loot filter in the options. You can set it to just not bother letting you pick up gear under your chosen rarity.

I played 2 more recently and if they're there, I couldn't find them so that's what my post was based on, it led to my game being cluttered as hell and my inventory constantly full. Thankfully, at least, selling stuff in bulk is very easy and fast.

Crowetron
Apr 29, 2009

Nuebot posted:

I played 2 more recently and if they're there, I couldn't find them so that's what my post was based on, it led to my game being cluttered as hell and my inventory constantly full. Thankfully, at least, selling stuff in bulk is very easy and fast.

It's under game settings but looking at it again it's called "Display Take over all items" instead of just being called a loot filter.

LIVE AMMO COSPLAY
Feb 3, 2006

Borderlands 3 finally made the lower tier weapons fun... but orange weapons drop so regularly that there's little point in bothering with weaker stuff

Read After Burning
Feb 19, 2013

"All this, for me? 💃Ah, you didn't have to! 🥰"

Tunicate posted:

Its pretty bad, the case is only complicated due to a total unexpected fluke accident which helped the perp, and a key piece of evidence halfway through immediately answers all the interesting questions about the case, which keeps dragging on and on after that.

PhazonLink posted:

since youre playing through the game.

does the circus case deserve the reputation of worse case in the whole series?

I'd have to refresh my memory on Dual Destinies and Spirit of Justice cases, but as for the original trilogy + Apollo Justice, the circus case is probably second-worst. IMO, the worst is still the guitar/band one from Apollo Justice.

The "real answer" to the circus case at least made me go "Oh, huh, okay" vs the guitar case (:haw:) just straight up sucks.

Philippe
Aug 9, 2013

(she/her)
At least the scrub tier gear in AC Odyssey sometimes gives you a new look you can use to transmog your existing armour.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

Read After Burning posted:

I'd have to refresh my memory on Dual Destinies and Spirit of Justice cases, but as for the original trilogy + Apollo Justice, the circus case is probably second-worst. IMO, the worst is still the guitar/band one from Apollo Justice.

The "real answer" to the circus case at least made me go "Oh, huh, okay" vs the guitar case (:haw:) just straight up sucks.

I think the circus case gets the reputation it does because it's bad in different ways than the others in the lineup. Like, if you're into Ace Attorney you're gonna build up a tolerance for weirdly elaborate lies, being unable to point out the obvious solution, cross-examination conversations that take about three times longer than they should, puzzles that transparently don't matter, all that kinds of thing.

The circus case is actually pretty okay as far as all those normal traps go, it doesn't really fall into most of them. No, it finds entirely new ways to be frustrating and terrible that were never repeated, like the clown that you have to be careful about cross-examining because he's literally too annoying for the court to keep him on the stand too long. Which honestly is a hilarious joke on paper, but didn't work well in practice.

Qwertycoatl
Dec 31, 2008

I don't actually remember much about the circus case, except for one point where a culprit is identified by what he's wearing, and if you try to point out that it might be someone else the whole court yells at you for being stupid (it was someone else)

I quite enjoy the ridiculous and implausible lies people come up with. I do find it a bit annoying when you've proven who the real culprit is but unless you can prove what colour socks they were wearing when they did the crime then they go free and your client is convicted.

Qwertycoatl has a new favorite as of 08:07 on Mar 11, 2023

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

Cleretic posted:

I think the circus case gets the reputation it does because it's bad in different ways than the others in the lineup. Like, if you're into Ace Attorney you're gonna build up a tolerance for weirdly elaborate lies, being unable to point out the obvious solution, cross-examination conversations that take about three times longer than they should, puzzles that transparently don't matter, all that kinds of thing.

The circus case is actually pretty okay as far as all those normal traps go, it doesn't really fall into most of them. No, it finds entirely new ways to be frustrating and terrible that were never repeated, like the clown that you have to be careful about cross-examining because he's literally too annoying for the court to keep him on the stand too long. Which honestly is a hilarious joke on paper, but didn't work well in practice.

I'm currently replaying the series, and really like the overall story involving the last two games showing how badly things fall apart when an idealist is not there to hold things together. After his disbarment in Apollo Justice, all it takes for everything to go to poo poo in Dual Destinies is one prosecutor being accused of murder and it triggers a whole collapse into a Dark Age of the Law where everyone is taking part in an arms race to try to win trials any way they can because everyone loses hope and just starts cheating REALLY hard, and it's only when he retakes the bar that him and his colleagues can start pulling it back from the brink of madness (also Athena's backstory is HILARIOUSLY hosed up). Then in SoJ it's taken further with a country with a legal system that's so badly hosed that for years defense attorneys were literally put to death and Phoenix is the first one they've seen in years. Even in earlier games Phoenix is laying the groundwork for fixing everything as nothing positive can happen until Redd White is removed from the equation as most of the early corruption is his own fault. Also Spirit of Justice's gimmick is badass and I love that priestess' character arc.

Bussamove
Feb 25, 2006

Atomic Heart: P-03 sucks. Like he really sucks. The gameplay is a little janky but fun and the setting is bizarre weirdness but every time he opens his goddamn mouth it’s to vomit out some unfunny grating bullshit. He’s a dollarstore Duke Nukem who is already a dollarstore action hero.

Fil5000
Jun 23, 2003

HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Bussamove posted:

Atomic Heart: P-03 sucks. Like he really sucks. The gameplay is a little janky but fun and the setting is bizarre weirdness but every time he opens his goddamn mouth it’s to vomit out some unfunny grating bullshit. He’s a dollarstore Duke Nukem who is already a dollarstore action hero.

I don't know what you gently caress mean by poo poo this. He's a perfectly OH gently caress likeable protagonist who gently caress poo poo gently caress wasn't written by a twelve year old.

the_steve
Nov 9, 2005

We're always hiring!

BioEnchanted posted:

I'm currently replaying the series, and really like the overall story involving the last two games showing how badly things fall apart when an idealist is not there to hold things together. After his disbarment in Apollo Justice, all it takes for everything to go to poo poo in Dual Destinies is one prosecutor being accused of murder and it triggers a whole collapse into a Dark Age of the Law where everyone is taking part in an arms race to try to win trials any way they can because everyone loses hope and just starts cheating REALLY hard, and it's only when he retakes the bar that him and his colleagues can start pulling it back from the brink of madness (also Athena's backstory is HILARIOUSLY hosed up). Then in SoJ it's taken further with a country with a legal system that's so badly hosed that for years defense attorneys were literally put to death and Phoenix is the first one they've seen in years. Even in earlier games Phoenix is laying the groundwork for fixing everything as nothing positive can happen until Redd White is removed from the equation as most of the early corruption is his own fault. Also Spirit of Justice's gimmick is badass and I love that priestess' character arc.

I'm not sure how it's generally been received, but I really enjoyed the crossover game with Professor Layton.
Solving some puzzles during the investigation phase really did a lot to help break up the mind-numbing agony of the point&click slog in-between trials.

credburn
Jun 22, 2016
President, Founder of the Brent Spiner Fan Club
Mount and Blade: Bannerlord

I'm on minute loving 8 of watching my teammate and the last opponent circle each other in the arena, take one weirdly badly aimed swipe at each other, and go back to circling.

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

the_steve posted:

I'm not sure how it's generally been received, but I really enjoyed the crossover game with Professor Layton.
Solving some puzzles during the investigation phase really did a lot to help break up the mind-numbing agony of the point&click slog in-between trials.

Also that one has the single dumbest reveal in the entire layton series and I love it. The inhabitants of the town have been hypnotised so that they cannot see objects that are pure black, and all the trick stuff is painted black. One of the dumbest but most hilarious endgame reveals in either series.

Opopanax
Aug 8, 2007

I HEX YE!!!


Why the hell can't Nintendo just have one big Classic Games spot? Do we really need full, seperate apps for each system they're emulating? It's such a messy way of doing things

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.
The Temple of Xian is a cool level in Tomb Raider 2, but my GOD it's super long. I'm at the spidercave so probably more than halfway, but it's exhausting that it just keeps going.

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



Opopanax posted:

Why the hell can't Nintendo just have one big Classic Games spot? Do we really need full, seperate apps for each system they're emulating? It's such a messy way of doing things

I always thought it was kinda funny that the Switch is clunkier in doing that than the 3DS. It's nice being able to just jump around between NES/SNES/GB games at will.

Hector Delgado
Sep 23, 2007

Time for shore leave!!
When I tried Path of Exile, i kept expecting to get some sort of inventory increase as the story went on. After asking on SA and finding out that it doesn't get larger and you're not supposed to pick up every piece of loot broke something in me and I stopped playing. I guess I expected something like Titan Quest, where you get inventory upgrades when you finish a chapter

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John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

Nuebot posted:

Any game with lots of trash loot that doesn't have some kind of loot filter is automatically the worst.

On the contrary, any game that looked at its unwieldy amount of loot and decided the answer wasn't to get rid of it then but instead make it marginally easier to sort through is automatically the worst. :colbert:

credburn posted:

Mount and Blade: Bannerlord

I'm on minute loving 8 of watching my teammate and the last opponent circle each other in the arena, take one weirdly badly aimed swipe at each other, and go back to circling.

Reminds me of Shadow of War where orc arena fights were a credible activity the game really wanted me to get invested in despite the dogshit AI. And then next round oops the game generated an orc who beats yours thanks to some specific weakness and he instantly dies.

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