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also male traveler is geo traveler and female traveler is dendro traveler because those are the only two travelers worth even mentioning. make a new D tier just for electro traveler and put anemo traveler in C, i guess
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Mar 12, 2023 18:53
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MNSNTZR posted:admittedly, i’ve only played maybe four gacha games, and only two of them being “real” ones (this and smt dx2), so my experience with it is limited. but dx2 is stupid full of powercreep and it keeps playing the game interesting because of the shifting meta imo. but that’s also a game with pvp. Nahida is busted, Cyno is pretty strong, Nilou is apparently very strong, Wanderer has great utility and is pretty strong, and Alhaitham is very strong. It's just Dehya and 4 stars that haven't been very good lately. Dehya's got a unique kit that definitely needs more work or something, I don't know what the deal is with her not being great, but for the 4 stars, I think it's worth pointing out that a lot of the original 4 stars are significantly stronger than they probably intended. I'd assume they've been trying to find a power level for 4 stars that gives them their niches, without being horribly outclassed by older 4 stars, but also without being better than most 5 stars like those older 4 stars. It seems like a pretty tough spot and honestly I wouldn't mind just having some power creep if it meant Layla wasn't outclassed by Diona 90% of the time, Faruzan functioned at C0, and Mika and Kaveh weren't likely to disappoint me.
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Mar 12, 2023 19:05
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mika seems okay but ironically he seems much more designed for phys kaeya than eula
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Mar 12, 2023 19:07
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you dont need to speculate what "genshin with powercreep" would look like since its just honkai. new characters are more interesting but the majority of the cast languishes in obscurity unless they print a refresher weapon for them. genshin has a massive casual playerbase so i think it would be a bad idea to cater more to the more hardcore/devoted people when you can just funnel them into your other game/s.
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Mar 12, 2023 19:33
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Endorph posted:releasing a character thats just straight up stronger than the character people like and are attached to is annoying. with its smaller cast and direct control genshin encourages 'maining' a character, hence all the subreddits about that. especially when you take into account things like how much work artifact farming is. imagine if they released raiden, people spent months grinding ideal artifacts for her, and then they released 'raiden but slightly better. but how is it annoying when there’s no pvp? i’m a cyno and wanderer main through and through. i only run haitham hyperbloom in abyss, because that’s the only place where the meta “belongs”. no one would be stopping you from running your main in genshin if powercreep were a thing — “roll for who you like” and all that. unless maybe that sentiment would immediately go away when that’s not the only option you have  throwing a niche example: i still use a stupidly average unit in dx2 (marici) because… i like her! in a game where powercreep actually has ramifications, you can use a well-invested unit and still can win occasionally because you actually main and hyper invested in them. you take the pvp aspect away, and a stronger unit than you one you have does what exactly you when people do successful meme runs in abyss all the time?
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Mar 12, 2023 19:45
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why does it matter if it's PvP or not? it sucks for characters you like to suck, and that's what power creep does it's almost like there's a sweet spot between player power and encounter difficulty that's more fun than over- or undershooting it on either side. a kind of """balance""", if you will e: to a certain extent this is in conflict with the games-as-a-service model, since design space exhaustion is a thing and once you hit it there's a strong financial incentive to go to power creep as a way to keep players on the treadmill. this is, in fact, exhibit A for why GAAS stinks. hope that helps Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Mar 12, 2023 |
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Mar 12, 2023 19:52
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MNSNTZR posted:but how is it annoying when there’s no pvp? its not logical but logic is the last thing peoples brains operate on
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Mar 12, 2023 19:56
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But then it also sucks when the cool new girl who is always sleepy and says "shroom buddies" is worse than an old character you don't like very much 90% of the time, is the thing. I don't mind Honkai's power creep treadmill too much (it probably helps that it's mostly the same characters later in the story), but Genshin doesn't need that level of power creep. But right now their solution to differentiating 4 stars and 5 stars more than they used to is to make the 4 stars weaker, and I'd rather they make the 5 stars stronger.
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Mar 12, 2023 20:05
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i would rather they not make the 5 stars stronger. the 5 stars, dehya aside, are at a pretty perfect place right now. they're strong and good but don't really replace any of the old characters or invalidate them. like tighnari and cyno are a perfect power level i think, the only thing id change about cyno is make him not go out of his burst mode if he swaps out. and layla's also perfectly fine and usable. if her and diona are both c0 id honestly say layla is the better of the two.
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Mar 12, 2023 20:08
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The thing that makes Honkai worse is that the characters skill is tied to their weapon, and their artifacts are tied to gacha(same one sd the weapon) so if you want a character to function better have a shitload of pulls saved for them. Also did I mention each pull is WAY more expensive than Genshin? I am much happier with Genshins way of doing characters even if honestly Honkai is way more fun when you do have all of a characters bells and whistles.
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Mar 12, 2023 20:09
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:why does it matter if it's PvP or not? it sucks for characters you like to suck, and that's what power creep does some folks intentionally pulling for dehya since this patch dropped goes against your first point. there’s no way that the majority of people who are pulling for her aren’t hoping that she’s going to be good one fontaine drops, but there are folks who are out there just vibing with her. it was wholly my intention to get her, because i really would have liked to have a 5 star that looked like me, but her being on standard plus baizhu and kaveh coming next outweighs that. to see it from both sides, it just seems like there’s no winning for losing in the meta situation in this game. you won’t please people like me who would like an occasional “overtuned” character to drop by releasing nothing but balanced ones, and doing that would apparently piss off the anti-powercreep folks. even though all this game eventually did was do powercreep backwards lol
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Mar 12, 2023 20:15
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Eimi posted:The thing that makes Honkai worse is that the characters skill is tied to their weapon, and their artifacts are tied to gacha(same one sd the weapon) so if you want a character to function better have a shitload of pulls saved for them. Also did I mention each pull is WAY more expensive than Genshin? This right here is probably the worst thing about Honkai. Following the advice of the internet, I decided to at least get the new Mei's weapon before pulling for Kiana. I almost hit hard pity twice and got doubles of almost her entire set before getting one sword. I do not have the new Kiana.
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Mar 12, 2023 20:22
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I mean they did just release an insanely over tuned character, Nahida is godtier in power and bringing with it the linking mechanic to lesson dependence on anemo (please do this more, just off VV alone anemo is already the best element in the game, let geo, pyro, or cryo have a grouper)Captain France posted:This right here is probably the worst thing about Honkai. Following the advice of the internet, I decided to at least get the new Mei's weapon before pulling for Kiana. Yeaaaaaaahh.....I may have all the girls and their gear but I may have made a few mistakes. And still gotten insanely lucky doing so. Almost wish Honkai had a proper wish history.
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Mar 12, 2023 20:24
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has it really powercreeped backwards? xiangling, benny, and xingqiu are still at the top of the 4* pile but besides them the curve of 4*s has been pretty all over the map. and it's easy to hyperfocus on the good launch 4*s when launch also gave us amber and c0 noelle. its not even a 'free characters' thing because xiangling is free. if anything, id say 4* design has become much more cohesive. candace and dori arent very good but i can at least see what the intent was compared to clusterfucks like xinyan. even actually good characters feel largely accidental, as proven by how bennet has constellations focused on his personal damage.
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Mar 12, 2023 20:25
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MNSNTZR posted:to see it from both sides, it just seems like there’s no winning for losing in the meta situation in this game. you won’t please people like me who would like an occasional “overtuned” character to drop by releasing nothing but balanced ones, and doing that would apparently piss off the anti-powercreep folks. even though all this game eventually did was do powercreep backwards lol
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Mar 12, 2023 20:27
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MNSNTZR posted:to see it from both sides, it just seems like there’s no winning for losing in the meta situation in this game. you won’t please people like me who would like an occasional “overtuned” character to drop by releasing nothing but balanced ones, and doing that would apparently piss off the anti-powercreep folks. even though all this game eventually did was do powercreep backwards lol i mean sure, but that's because both "sides" are bad. the true way and the light is "every GaaS title that isn't doing Ultima Online levels of player-driven storytelling should have been a singleplayer or co-op campaign with a fixed endpoint instead"  i like Genshin but it's very much an "in spite of" kind of deal
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Mar 12, 2023 20:27
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Genshin is rich in mechanics and only releases nine or ten 5-stars a year. There is no reason for crazy powercreep in this game like there would be in a mechanics-light game that released forty characters a year.
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Mar 12, 2023 20:29
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There's tons they can copy from Honkai too if they really wanted. Different things on press and hold of ult and skill buttons, maybe some stuff that actually ties into normal attacks and where timing matters, etc. etc. There's no reason Genshin can't have those types of mechanics, they just don't wan that for whatever reason.
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Mar 12, 2023 20:33
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MNSNTZR posted:to see it from both sides, it just seems like there’s no winning for losing in the meta situation in this game. you won’t please people like me who would like an occasional “overtuned” character to drop by releasing nothing but balanced ones, and doing that would apparently piss off the anti-powercreep folks. even though all this game eventually did was do powercreep backwards lol The compromise already exists, it's the "controlled power creep" model. That way people still get the rush of getting the shiny new toy, people don't feel like it's pointless to play with old toys, MHY still makes bank.
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Mar 12, 2023 20:36
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No Wave posted:It's true, dendro flopped. Everyone's still out there playing diluc and klee. Ganyu is overpowered. It's January 2021. all dendro did was make ganyu better for people who didn’t invest that hard in her, what do you mean. burnmelt ganyu is my single target speedrun queen dendro is just “a lot of numbers/fun factor” instead of “big number” like vape but the top numbers haven’t changed dramatically. honestly, i’d rather animation/fun creep than anything else and, looking at baizhu, they won’t even give us that consistently (kaveh’s great.) release more cynos and heizous and i’ll be a happy camper, tuning aside Tuxedo Catfish posted:i mean sure, but that's because both "sides" are bad. the true way and the light is "every GaaS title that isn't doing Ultima Online levels of player-driven storytelling should have been a singleplayer or co-op campaign with a fixed endpoint instead" 
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Mar 12, 2023 20:39
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The big thing worth noting is that from launch to the 1st anni they only added 6 new 4*s. diona, xinyan, rosaria, yanfei, sayu, and sara. if we go by who was around in quests then and how quickly they were released after launch/general pipelines we can assume that only sayu, sara, and maybe yanfei were actually newly developed after launch and not just characters that were held back from launch to feed new content in. Compared from sara to now where they added thoma, gorou, yun jin, shinobu, heizou, collei, dori, candace, layla, faruzan, and yaoyao. its pretty clear to me that they werent entirely sure what to do with 4*s for a while. and at this point, its pretty clear that they see them as either a way to fill specific niches (gorou, yun jin, faruzan) or as an experimentation platform for new mechanics (candace, heizou, dori), with occasionally generally decent-good characters thrown in to fluff up the character pool a bit.
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Mar 12, 2023 20:41
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Endorph posted:
I do like that you gave characters that only exist for a very specific niche their own section, since yeah gorou as a unit on his own is trash, but adds a ton of value to a greedy onfielder with def scaling.
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Mar 12, 2023 20:43
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Speaking of real ultimate power, am I doing it wrong or is alhaitham absolutely awful without something to react to dendro with? Dude feels weaker than na-only hu tao, despite the periodic 4 digit number from his skill.It's a friendship team, with cryo and geo. I wasn't expecting much, but I didn't expect him to feel weaker than yaoyao. https://i.imgur.com/8AiQtaS.mp4 A more patient and funnier person would've put an amusing audio track over this. Unrelated to all of that, I found tighnari and mika, they're on that pointy bit of cliff north of the statue of seven north of the winery. 
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Mar 12, 2023 20:51
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alhaitham is a reaction based driver who has em scalings built into his kit.
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Mar 12, 2023 21:00
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Yeah, I guess I was expecting him to be able to stand on his own legs at least a little, even with his skill being explicitly %atk+%em. But I suppose that's more in service of making his reaction numbers tastier, rather than properly being green keqing.
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Mar 12, 2023 21:11
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There's a surprisingly large number of hidden voiced conversations spread out over all 3 days of Windblume. Some even give lore tidbits, like Lisa and Cyno's conversation in the library.
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Mar 12, 2023 21:30
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They need to put markers on the map if they're gonna keep doing that bullshit. I suppose most of the dialogue has been fairly meaningless.
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Mar 12, 2023 22:01
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my cache of level 90s is growing: Raiden, Nahida, Zhongli, Yelan, Kazuha, Hu Tao, Thinking about whos next.....
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Mar 12, 2023 22:25
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Baiard posted:They need to put markers on the map if they're gonna keep doing that bullshit. I suppose most of the dialogue has been fairly meaningless. Yeah, I never found Lisa at all during her event, and I wasn't about to spend each day searching all over Sumeru just for a few lines of optional dialogue. The idea is cool, but if you're not actively doing something in that region you're probably not going to find the extra stuff
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Mar 12, 2023 22:31
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Zenostein posted:Yeah, I guess I was expecting him to be able to stand on his own legs at least a little, even with his skill being explicitly %atk+%em. But I suppose that's more in service of making his reaction numbers tastier, rather than properly being green keqing. this made me build and run a quick and dirty phys al haitham in the deepwood domain since i had resin to burn. with superconduct, he honestly does alright for both NA and skill — like barely scraping in to 5 digits for both alright. it’s still obviously trumped by his hyperbloom dps, but it does make me wonder if mika can have a niche for allowing people to enjoy using NAs
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Mar 12, 2023 22:50
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Shinji2015 posted:Yeah, I never found Lisa at all during her event, and I wasn't about to spend each day searching all over Sumeru just for a few lines of optional dialogue. The idea is cool, but if you're not actively doing something in that region you're probably not going to find the extra stuff That one was even more bananas since she moved in real time, not based on where you were in the story. So after you do her day 1 event she says she'll be somewhere, but since you started on day 4 she's not there and you missed it.
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Mar 12, 2023 23:07
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Coolness Averted posted:That one was even more bananas since she moved in real time, not based on where you were in the story. So after you do her day 1 event she says she'll be somewhere, but since you started on day 4 she's not there and you missed it. lol, that seems specifically designed to punish the people who wait for events to be fully unlocked before starting them
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Mar 12, 2023 23:25
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Love that fungi farming means don't hit them with electro of pryo considering the only people I really have leveled are electro and pyro characters.
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Mar 12, 2023 23:27
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I rarely find the hidden npcs but that's what youtube is for. I did run into Dehya and Candace on my own and that's was really cool.
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Mar 12, 2023 23:33
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Mordiceius posted:Love that fungi farming means don't hit them with electro of pryo considering the only people I really have leveled are electro and pyro characters. Big same. Yelan and Wanderer get a huge work out in Sumeru because I don't have to worry about their stupid drop rules. And I have enough pyro/electro shroom goodies from when Sumeru was first released to last me a lifetime.
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Mar 13, 2023 00:26
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Okay so first off, that curved rhythm game format must be built specifically for phones. Things got much easier once I turned into a line with note guides. And second off I was way harder on myself, I managed to hit dulcem on every one of those hardest difficulty challenges after an attempt on easy to warm up for a few that tripped me up initially. However, I still have two left thumbs in that game and going down right square X or backwards still tripped me up.
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Mar 13, 2023 01:53
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Cyno gets real mad if you haven't done the card game quest. "THE CAT'S TAIL TAVERN IS RIGHT THERE GO LEARN THE GAME NOW"
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Mar 13, 2023 02:14
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Mordiceius posted:Love that fungi farming means don't hit them with electro of pryo considering the only people I really have leveled are electro and pyro characters. ｐｈｙｓｉｃａｌ ｑｉｑｉ RareAcumen posted:Okay so first off, that curved rhythm game format must be built specifically for phones. Things got much easier once I turned into a line with note guides. And second off I was way harder on myself, I managed to hit dulcem on every one of those hardest difficulty challenges after an attempt on easy to warm up for a few that tripped me up initially. curved works alright-ish for smaller screens, and it's understandable why you'd want to move the tap areas to the edges. But there's only 6 lanes and it doesn't come close to using the full width of the screen on mobile anyway, so it's just crap design that only made sense if you were designing a mobile rhythm game in 2013 and insisted on 9 tap zones for reasons. It's definitely doable with a controller/keyboard, but you'll have to gently caress around with the timing and note speed, and that requires an annoying amount of menu navigation. I really do think the first? rhythm game, where the notes came from where the buttons were inwards to two separate tap zones (one for each hand) was way better for everything that isn't a touchscreen.
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Mar 13, 2023 03:06
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MNSNTZR posted:what exactly is powercreep going to do in a game with no competitive aspect? hyv pretending to be allergic to releasing strong units lately, four or five star, is confusing. people would want to pull way more for someone powerful, i’d think. releasing weak-to-balanced characters (nearly) endlessly is a little wild, but what do i know! What happens when they produce a powercrept unit, and then design things around that unit? I'm using Puzzle and Dragons specifically as an example, but consider if they released a character who provided 75% damage reduction with 100% uptime, and then added enemies that would randomly do damage equal to 300% of the active character's current health. I'm not suggesting mhy is going to do something like that, but it's absolutely a way for powercreep to negatively impact people in a purely PVE game.
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Mar 13, 2023 03:45
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Lack of power creep also means old characters like Hu Tao keep being relevant and huge money makers years after their release.
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Mar 13, 2023 03:57
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