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Gambit from the X-Men
May 12, 2001

a war boy standing alone in the desert blasting his mouth with cum from a dildo
Batman really is fantastic. when i made that post i thought it came before Final Crisis. time is an illusion.

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Random Stranger
Nov 27, 2009



Gambit from the X-Men posted:

7S was fantastic. I've been catching up on Morrison's stuff since then and I'm starting to think that was their peak.

I'm not always fond of Morrison's work, but Seven Soldiers kind of dances on the line of their worst excesses while managing to not cross it. Okay, maybe crossing it with Zatanna, but everyone else was just the right mix of out there and approachable.

Batman is very good, but it's also very straightforward. Except for the text issue which everyone skips because it's pretty bad.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011




Random Stranger posted:

I'm not always fond of Morrison's work, but Seven Soldiers kind of dances on the line of their worst excesses while managing to not cross it. Okay, maybe crossing it with Zatanna, but everyone else was just the right mix of out there and approachable.


Morrison's Zatanna was perfect, solely based on this panel:

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!
Seven Soldiers rules. I think each story stands well on its own, then there's the way the stories interlock together to make a larger story, then there's the metaphors going on with Morrison vs Moore, and DC editorial resurrecting old properties to make them grim and gritty.

maltesh
May 20, 2004

Uncle Ben: Still Dead.
Which is the comic where the Thing throws Spider-Man and a disguised Chameleon a few dozen meters straight up to determine which is the impostor?

Beerdeer
Apr 25, 2006

Frank Herbert's Dude
I know the Justice Society is the real hotness, but is there any mention of the All-Star Squadron recently?

Mr Hootington
Jul 24, 2008

I'M HAVING A HOOT EATING CORNETTE THE LONG WAY

Beerdeer posted:

I know the Justice Society is the real hotness, but is there any mention of the All-Star Squadron recently?

Post COIE the All-Star Squadron was essentially rolled into the JSA.

Mr Hootington
Jul 24, 2008

I'M HAVING A HOOT EATING CORNETTE THE LONG WAY
What is a good comic collection tracker website or app?

Gaz-L
Jan 28, 2009

Mr Hootington posted:

Post COIE the All-Star Squadron was essentially rolled into the JSA.

Even before it was a little nebulous as the first few issues imply the one is mostly an expansion of the other. But it was basically just Roy Thomas wanting to write Invaders but for DC.

CopywrightMMXI
Jun 1, 2011

One time a guy stole some downhill skis out of my jeep and I was so mad I punched a mailbox. I'm against crime, and I'm not ashamed to admit it.

Mr Hootington posted:

What is a good comic collection tracker website or app?

CLZ. It’s something like $20 a year but I find it’s worth it.

Mr Hootington
Jul 24, 2008

I'M HAVING A HOOT EATING CORNETTE THE LONG WAY

Gaz-L posted:

Even before it was a little nebulous as the first few issues imply the one is mostly an expansion of the other. But it was basically just Roy Thomas wanting to write Invaders but for DC.

Yeah. It a a solid book though. The pre-crisis JSA, All-Star Squadron, Infinity In, and Young All-Stars are fairly interesting if a bit dated reads.

Mr Hootington
Jul 24, 2008

I'M HAVING A HOOT EATING CORNETTE THE LONG WAY

CopywrightMMXI posted:

CLZ. It’s something like $20 a year but I find it’s worth it.

Any free options?

bessantj
Jul 27, 2004


Anyone going through the "End of Spider-Verse" event? Is it any good?

TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta
Grimey Drawer

bessantj posted:

Anyone going through the "End of Spider-Verse" event? Is it any good?

Not really aside from the obligatory new Spider-People introduced. My personal favorite is the Disney princess one.

bessantj
Jul 27, 2004


TwoPair posted:

Not really aside from the obligatory new Spider-People introduced. My personal favorite is the Disney princess one.

That one does sound interesting. How many Spider-Verse events have there been now? Were any of them good? I'm still going through what Marvel have on MU, still in the early 90s so I think I have Clone Wars coming up which should be a lot of fun but I'm a while away from the Spider-Verse yet.

Air Skwirl
May 13, 2007

Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.
Regardless of the quality of the Spider-verse comics, Spider-Man: Into the Spider-verse was both a financially successful and critically acclaimed movie that has a sequel coming out in the next year or two. So you're gonna see more Spider-Verse comics between now and then.

(Also probably the best Spider-Man movie since Spider-Man 2, it deserves every accolade it's ever gotten)

bessantj
Jul 27, 2004


Skwirl posted:

Regardless of the quality of the Spider-verse comics, Spider-Man: Into the Spider-verse was both a financially successful and critically acclaimed movie that has a sequel coming out in the next year or two. So you're gonna see more Spider-Verse comics between now and then.

(Also probably the best Spider-Man movie since Spider-Man 2, it deserves every accolade it's ever gotten)

I very much enjoyed that movie and am looking forward to the sequel.

Air Skwirl
May 13, 2007

Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.

bessantj posted:

I very much enjoyed that movie and am looking forward to the sequel.

Absolutely. Waiting on tenterhooks for the trailer even.

TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta
Grimey Drawer

bessantj posted:

That one does sound interesting. How many Spider-Verse events have there been now? Were any of them good? I'm still going through what Marvel have on MU, still in the early 90s so I think I have Clone Wars coming up which should be a lot of fun but I'm a while away from the Spider-Verse yet.

IIRC, there have only been 2 actual big "events" with a whole bunch of little smaller ones here and there because people love the concept. The first is Spider-Verse, plain and simple, which I think is honestly just kinda mediocre at best. The second is Spider-Geddon, which is (imo) better.

What I think everyone will agree on is that the spin-offs of the events are hands down way better than the events themselves.

Uthor
Jul 9, 2006

Gummy Bear Heaven ... It's where I go when the world is too mean.
I've only read a tiny bit of Spider-Verse comics (had to check out Spider-Punk), but I'm currently reading DC events from the 90's and going from "five multi-verses is confusing and we need multiple events to limit it to one" to "there are an infinite amount of Spider-Heroes alone" is enjoyable.

Kingtheninja
Jul 29, 2004

"You're the best looking guy here."

Mr Hootington posted:

Any free options?

I use an app called comic geeks. I only use it to track my collections, but you can create wishlists and clumsily remove things from that list after you add them to a collection list.

bessantj
Jul 27, 2004


TwoPair posted:

IIRC, there have only been 2 actual big "events" with a whole bunch of little smaller ones here and there because people love the concept. The first is Spider-Verse, plain and simple, which I think is honestly just kinda mediocre at best. The second is Spider-Geddon, which is (imo) better.

What I think everyone will agree on is that the spin-offs of the events are hands down way better than the events themselves.

I have found in the past that there have been tie-in issues that I've enjoyed far more than the main series in an event. I thought the tie in issue in Civil War where Ben Grimm gently caress off to France because he's had enough was good.

Mr Hootington
Jul 24, 2008

I'M HAVING A HOOT EATING CORNETTE THE LONG WAY

Kingtheninja posted:

I use an app called comic geeks. I only use it to track my collections, but you can create wishlists and clumsily remove things from that list after you add them to a collection list.

Thanks! Yeah this will work perfectly for me.

TGG
Aug 8, 2003

"I Dare."

TwoPair posted:

IIRC, there have only been 2 actual big "events" with a whole bunch of little smaller ones here and there because people love the concept. The first is Spider-Verse, plain and simple, which I think is honestly just kinda mediocre at best. The second is Spider-Geddon, which is (imo) better.

What I think everyone will agree on is that the spin-offs of the events are hands down way better than the events themselves.

I think that's what made the Hickman Secret Wars one of my favorites, the side issues had no constraints and they just went nuts. The Silver Surfer in Egypt feeding a Galactus who is just a giant head is one hell of a fun concept and it's art is by loving Stokoe.

Air Skwirl
May 13, 2007

Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.

bessantj posted:

I have found in the past that there have been tie-in issues that I've enjoyed far more than the main series in an event. I thought the tie in issue in Civil War where Ben Grimm gently caress off to France because he's had enough was good.

That's true of a lot of bad Marvel events. Like, Fear Itself isn't horrible, but it's not good, it also gave us Journey Into Mystery with Kid Loki and that's probably one of my favorite comics of that era.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017

The last big crossover I recall that felt genuinely solid all around was World War Hulk, maybe?

Opopanax
Aug 8, 2007

I HEX YE!!!


Dawgstar posted:

The last big crossover I recall that felt genuinely solid all around was World War Hulk, maybe?

Infinity

bessantj
Jul 27, 2004


Dawgstar posted:

The last big crossover I recall that felt genuinely solid all around was World War Hulk, maybe?

Is that including DC?

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.

Dawgstar posted:

The last big crossover I recall that felt genuinely solid all around was World War Hulk, maybe?

Depends what you mean by 'big' crossover - I thought Judgement Day was generally fairly strong.

Mr Hootington
Jul 24, 2008

I'M HAVING A HOOT EATING CORNETTE THE LONG WAY
So I was going through my comic collection to get rid of the majority of my Mavel Comics. One of the series I was going to keep was Young Avengers vol 1, but I decided to look at the potential value of these issues and lmao :homebrew:.

I do still want to keep them, but would getting some of these books slabbed be a good idea? Is there an extra safe way to store comics that isn't paying to have the issues slabbed?

Open Marriage Night
Sep 18, 2009

"Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"


Dawgstar posted:

The last big crossover I recall that felt genuinely solid all around was World War Hulk, maybe?

Secret Wars slapped, and most of the tie ins were really good.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Open Marriage Night posted:

Secret Wars slapped, and most of the tie ins were really good.

The Captain America toy not having the Captain America shield but coming with the same dumb square lenticular image one as all the rest was pretty stupid.

CzarChasm
Mar 14, 2009

I don't like it when you're watching me eat.

Mr Hootington posted:

So I was going through my comic collection to get rid of the majority of my Mavel Comics. One of the series I was going to keep was Young Avengers vol 1, but I decided to look at the potential value of these issues and lmao :homebrew:.

I do still want to keep them, but would getting some of these books slabbed be a good idea? Is there an extra safe way to store comics that isn't paying to have the issues slabbed?

For most people, keeping them in long boxes is enough, as long as they are kept out of moisture and away from bugs.

If you want to be extra, and save money, board, bag and put them in an opaque rubbermaid, the smaller the better (to avoid folding/crushing). If you can find one with a gasket to keep out even more moisture, probably better. You might be able to also put them in a vacuum/space saver bag, but those are usually way larger than what you would need. If you know someone with a sous vide machine, they probably have a food bag sealer, which might work. Bag and board first to try and avoid too much creasing.

Mr Hootington
Jul 24, 2008

I'M HAVING A HOOT EATING CORNETTE THE LONG WAY

CzarChasm posted:

For most people, keeping them in long boxes is enough, as long as they are kept out of moisture and away from bugs.

If you want to be extra, and save money, board, bag and put them in an opaque rubbermaid, the smaller the better (to avoid folding/crushing). If you can find one with a gasket to keep out even more moisture, probably better. You might be able to also put them in a vacuum/space saver bag, but those are usually way larger than what you would need. If you know someone with a sous vide machine, they probably have a food bag sealer, which might work. Bag and board first to try and avoid too much creasing.

Thanks! I think I will try and find the Rubbermaid with a gasket.

CopywrightMMXI
Jun 1, 2011

One time a guy stole some downhill skis out of my jeep and I was so mad I punched a mailbox. I'm against crime, and I'm not ashamed to admit it.
Does anyone else feel Armageddon 2001 got a bad rap? I get that people were upset Monarch wasn’t Captain Atom, and it violated its own logic in the Hawk and Dove annual, but the majority of the annuals are pretty solid elseworlds tales. I get that some people were upset by the big reveal but it never bothered me. I was new to comics at the time and didn’t really know who Hawk or Captain Atom were.

Selachian
Oct 9, 2012

CopywrightMMXI posted:

Does anyone else feel Armageddon 2001 got a bad rap? I get that people were upset Monarch wasn’t Captain Atom, and it violated its own logic in the Hawk and Dove annual, but the majority of the annuals are pretty solid elseworlds tales. I get that some people were upset by the big reveal but it never bothered me. I was new to comics at the time and didn’t really know who Hawk or Captain Atom were.

The annuals were decent enough. But the cheating on Monarch's identity aside, killing off Dove and turning Hawk evil was a lovely way to cap off their comic.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017

Selachian posted:

The annuals were decent enough. But the cheating on Monarch's identity aside, killing off Dove and turning Hawk evil was a lovely way to cap off their comic.

And you can't even say it led anywhere very interesting because while it did give us the all-female Hawk & Dove (Dove being alive for reasons) they had a couple of appearances together and Geoff Johns killed Hawk.

Cornwind Evil
Dec 14, 2004


The undisputed world champion of wrestling effortposting

CopywrightMMXI posted:

Does anyone else feel Armageddon 2001 got a bad rap? I get that people were upset Monarch wasn’t Captain Atom, and it violated its own logic in the Hawk and Dove annual, but the majority of the annuals are pretty solid elseworlds tales. I get that some people were upset by the big reveal but it never bothered me. I was new to comics at the time and didn’t really know who Hawk or Captain Atom were.

The Annuals are fine. The infamous part of it, well, I'll let my own mini review of it say it.

Myself posted:

Throughout all these stories, clues were planted as to who Monarch truly was. And while some rework WAS possible if needed, the stories made it clear that there were two heroes that could absolutely, positively not be Monarch; the war and peace, chaos and order duo of Hawk and Dove, as they were seen explicitly battling Monarch in their 2001 vision.

Then the ending leaked; Monarch was (or rather, he would become from) Captain Atom. The clues were strong enough that anyone who actually wanted to figure it out would have, and back in the days of 1991, when the internet was the barest fraction of what it would be in time, exactly how far that information could have spread is unknown to me. I'm not even sure exactly what it was leaked TO, but it was (Edit: Apparently it was leaked to a comic book phone line (remember those sort of things?) which you could call to get 'inside scoops' of comic book stuff).

I get it. It sucks. As someone who has their own experience in attempting a surprise and having it get spoiled, it grates on the creative brain. But DC Comics' response is what makes this story memorable...for the wrong reasons.

Because they apparently decided that their ending absolutely had to not be known in advance. So they changed it. The final issue of the storyline had Waverider touch Captain Atom, witness a bad future where Atom went insane due to family members dying...and then the end of the story was interrupted by Monarch time traveling back himself, to create himself. And then the art of the story OUTRIGHT CHANGED as Monarch flew off, grabbed Hawk and Dove, revealed himself as a future Hawk, and murdered Dove so that Present-Hawk would snap, kill him, and then become him, 'just as he remembered'.

Never mind that Monarch was presented as brilliant, and Hawk was just of average intelligence.

Or the fact that Monarch was shown to be a mechanical genius, and Hawk had no mechanical skill.

Or the fact that Monarch's viewpoints were based on tyrannical, absolute control (ie, order), while Hawk was in service to the concept of CHAOS.

Oh yeah, AND THE FACT THAT HAWK WAS THE ONLY MALE SUPERHERO SHOWN IN THE drat TIE-IN ISSUES WHO COULD ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY NOT BE MONARCH BECAUSE HE WAS SHOWN FIGHTING THE GUY TO THE DEATH.

But DC Comics, it seemed, was pissed off that their ending had been spoiled, even if just to a small pool of people who would want to seek that sort of information out intentionally, and so they changed it so that it wasn't, even though it completely contradicted the whole story, completely ignored how Hawk and Dove's powers worked (and even how Dove got injured, as her death showed her suffering 'human-type' wounds when her powers had long been established to basically turn her into a golden being of light that had a human skin laid over it, ie, she couldn't bleed or suffer burns, which is exactly what her corpse was covered with when Monarch killed her), and did it without telling the writer of the then-being published Hawk and Dove series, outright forcing its cancellation because now one of them was dead and the other was a villain. And so, instead of having an average story that would be forgotten save for the hardcore, DC Comics created a story that is still being mocked to this day, all so they wouldn't have 'the ending ruined'. Even worse, later storylines would just pour salt on the wound by having Captain Atom become Monarch anyway.

It's one thing to fumble the ending of something, but Armageddon is pure cut off your nose to spite your face.

CopywrightMMXI
Jun 1, 2011

One time a guy stole some downhill skis out of my jeep and I was so mad I punched a mailbox. I'm against crime, and I'm not ashamed to admit it.
Thanks for the explanation. I was (and really still am) unfamiliar with Hawk and Dove so I didn’t realize how nonsensical it was.

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I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Did Chris Claremont know what he was doing when he named a character “chode”?

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