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I walked it back, and I wholeheartedly apologize to all amputees I may have offended
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Mar 18, 2023 15:12
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Xenomrph posted:I walked it back Dude...
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Mar 18, 2023 16:26
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Xenomrph posted:I walked it back, and I wholeheartedly apologize to all amputees I may have offended 
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Mar 18, 2023 17:12
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I’m not even going to pretend I did that on purpose.
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Mar 18, 2023 17:41
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It's alright man, we're just pulling your leg 
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Mar 18, 2023 17:48
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Yeah my apologies it looks like we got off on the wrong foot. I didn't mean to trip you up.
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Mar 18, 2023 17:52
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I will take this important lesson in stride and I vow to do better, and I hope this thread can keep on rolling.
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Mar 18, 2023 18:12
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Where exactly was this walk back? Claiming you mispoke isn’t the same thing if everything around the text is still in favor of the argument.
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Mar 18, 2023 18:23
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ruddiger posted:Where exactly was this walk back? Claiming you mispoke isn’t the same thing if everything around the text is still in favor of the argument. I apologized twice, do you have any plans of posting about the Alien movies anytime soon or do you want to keep re-litigating something I’ve acknowledged I was wrong on and we’ve moved on from?
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Mar 18, 2023 18:29
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I love this thread and simply scroll past bad posts, works like a charm.
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Mar 18, 2023 18:34
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ruddiger posted:Where exactly was this walk back? Claiming you mispoke isn’t the same thing if everything around the text is still in favor of the argument.  Baronjutter posted:I love this thread and simply scroll past bad posts, works like a charm. gently caress yes. Speaking of Alien, a couple of pages ago someone posted about how originally in the script they were going to find a pyramid separate from the ship and that's where the eggs would be. I knew about that, but I had never connected how what they had in mind for the pyramid interior probably inspired the inside of the derelict ship and how cavernous and loving awesome it looks and that sort of crypt-like corridor they go through as they enter it. So loving awesome.
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Mar 18, 2023 18:37
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Xenomrph posted:I apologized twice, do you have any plans of posting about the Alien movies anytime soon or do you want to keep re-litigating something I’ve acknowledged I was wrong on and we’ve moved on from? Well, the offensive thing about your post was not actually your explicit statement but the fact that that statement was a logical outgrowth of attempting to restrict which specific bodily features or capabilities pushed someone over the threshold of human(oid). Insofar as you try to draw that line anywhere, you are going to be dehumanizing real people, whether they're bedridden or reliant on prosthetics to move around or whatever else. There's a difference between "oops, I didn't mean for you to notice my saying that" and "oops, I was actually wrong". Otherwise you're actually standing firmly behind the argument that someone who uses a wheelchair is only human because you can dump them out of their wheelchair and force them to crawl. If the rule you followed led you here, of what use was the rule?
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Mar 18, 2023 18:39
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Ferrinus posted:Well, the offensive thing about your post was not actually your explicit statement but the fact that that statement was a logical outgrowth of attempting to restrict which specific bodily features or capabilities pushed someone over the threshold of human(oid). Insofar as you try to draw that line anywhere, you are going to be dehumanizing real people, whether they're bedridden or reliant on prosthetics to move around or whatever else. There's a difference between "oops, I didn't mean for you to notice my saying that" and "oops, I was actually wrong". Otherwise you're actually standing firmly behind the argument that someone who uses a wheelchair is only human because you can dump them out of their wheelchair and force them to crawl.
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Mar 18, 2023 18:42
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Walking it back!
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Mar 18, 2023 18:42
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Neo Rasa posted:
I think the plan was that the ship was like docked on top of the pyramid or something? That's why the egg chamber is impossibly deep within the ship, it's not actually in the ship, its under the ship??
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Mar 18, 2023 18:43
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Right, see, you actually aren't walking it back. You're simply acknowledging that you spoke too plainly.
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Mar 18, 2023 18:43
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Any good actual play podcasts of the rpg out there?
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Mar 18, 2023 18:52
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Neo Rasa posted:Speaking of Alien, a couple of pages ago someone posted about how originally in the script they were going to find a pyramid separate from the ship and that's where the eggs would be. I knew about that, but I had never connected how what they had in mind for the pyramid interior probably inspired the inside of the derelict ship and how cavernous and loving awesome it looks and that sort of crypt-like corridor they go through as they enter it. So loving awesome. This is the concept art for the original egg silo that was going to be in Alien, before they merged it with the derelict ship. I like that they still kept the freaky unnatural landscape though and Cameron even adapted the same visual style for the alien secretions that form the nest in Aliens:  Here's a fun comparison highlighting how they revisited some of Giger's work for Jodorowsky's Dune when making Prometheus as well:  Here's another piece Giger created for Jodorowsky's Dune as well, with these steps very closely resembling the exterior of the egg silo for Alien: 
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Mar 18, 2023 18:56
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"I want my building to look like a massive fat dude holding a huge gun"
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Mar 18, 2023 18:58
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Baronjutter posted:I think the plan was that the ship was like docked on top of the pyramid or something? That's why the egg chamber is impossibly deep within the ship, it's not actually in the ship, its under the ship?? That makes sense too with how in the movie it's like they go to it but then spelunk down quite a ways. I always just took it as the ship itself being insanely big like the Jockey itself. Baronjutter posted:"I want my building to look like a massive fat dude holding a huge gun" The emperor's palace in his Dune was going to be a made of gold and shaped like the emperor's face too so I think that was going to be a motif throughout. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Mar 18, 2023 |
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Mar 18, 2023 19:03
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FastestGunAlive posted:Any good actual play podcasts of the rpg out there? Good question, there is a discord for the RPG though, I’ll noodle around and see if anyone has recommendations. Baronjutter posted:I think the plan was that the ship was like docked on top of the pyramid or something? That's why the egg chamber is impossibly deep within the ship, it's not actually in the ship, its under the ship?? The plan was that they’d be separate, unrelated things some distance from each other. Although you’re right that the Derelict’s “hold” (if that’s what it is) seems to extend well beyond the underside of the ship itself. I‘ve read interpretations about the idea of perhaps “impossible” geometry within the ship to play into the Lovecraftian themes. It’s a neat idea but I’m not married to it. The pyramid (I think?) was going to have hieroglyphs depicting the (bipedal) Space Jockey’s fate step-by-step. The artwork is neat but it’s super-on-the-nose and spells out exactly what’s going to happen to Kane before it does, lessening the impact. I much prefer the movie’s subtle, indirect storytelling.  Neo Rasa posted:That makes sense too with how in the movie it's like they go to it but then spelunk down quite a ways. I always just took it as the ship itself being insanely big like the Jockey itself. The problem is that when you compare the base of the ship where they enter to how far Kane is lowered down, the only explanation is that either the hold is underground compared to the base of the ship, or the characters walked way up an incline to get to the Jockey before Kane dropped down (entirely possible and we just don’t see it, although Alien Isolation chooses not to do this). Or its, like, bigger on the inside than on the outside. 
Xenomrph fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Mar 18, 2023 |
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Mar 18, 2023 19:04
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Xenomrph posted:Good question, there is a discord for the RPG though, I’ll noodle around and see if anyone has recommendations. This I do remember, they were going to find a relief of this piece when they entered the pyramid. I had never thought of it as having impossible geometry before, lmao finally a fan explanation for why the map guy Fifeld gets lost in Prometheus  Thinking about it now it just leading to some massive underground space "makes more sense" but I prefer that the ship itself is just this huge thing that doesn't functionally conform what we think of as a spaceship. I really do like how it contrasts with the Nostromo's cramped construction because it really does make it feel so alien (  ) from what we're used to.
Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Mar 18, 2023 |
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Mar 18, 2023 19:06
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SUNKOS posted:Here's a fun comparison highlighting how they revisited some of Giger's work for Jodorowsky's Dune when making Prometheus as well: This is all I can think of looking at that bottom-right image: 
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Mar 18, 2023 19:06
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Baronjutter posted:"I want my building to look like a massive fat dude holding a huge gun" That was for the Harkonnen world so he pretty much nailed the intended aesthetic Timby posted:This is all I can think of looking at that bottom-right image: I see that's from X-Men but the art style looks a lot like the old animated Aeon Flux series on MTV. Did the artist from that work on X-Men?! 
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Mar 18, 2023 19:12
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FastestGunAlive posted:Any good actual play podcasts of the rpg out there? Found a Reddit thread with a bunch of links, can’t vouch for their quality but it’s a place to start. https://www.reddit.com/r/alienrpg/comments/ufzl50/alien_rpg_actual_play_podcast/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
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Mar 18, 2023 19:15
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SUNKOS posted:This is the concept art for the original egg silo that was going to be in Alien, before they merged it with the derelict ship. I like that they still kept the freaky unnatural landscape though and Cameron even adapted the same visual style for the alien secretions that form the nest in Aliens: I thought the thread consensus was ships and building can’t be humanoid
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Mar 18, 2023 19:46
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 Edit— if I remember right that specific shot is removed from the director’s cut, which is kind of a shame because it’s a good shot. Speaking of Jones: https://twitter.com/soozuk/status/1303761841148002309?s=46&t=AO94-Nyeqyc_3nMDXCDtuA
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Mar 18, 2023 20:13
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Xenomrph posted:
It is removed yeah, such a great shot. But I understand how similar to them not having Shaw actually grapple with the engineer with that overdesigned fire axe, keeping that shot would weaken the Alien because between that and the part where it swats the carrier and runs off towards the end it would make it absolutely undeniable that xenomorphs are canonically scared shitless of cats I mean why else would it run off so fast? EDIT: It's not as good as what's in any released version of the movie of course, but I really like this fan made clip that just puts together every bit of Brett being taken by the Alien just to have all the stuff in one place for reference. There's a couple of extremely cool shots here I'm not as familiar with: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1eF_W_NSWk
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Mar 18, 2023 20:36
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Xenomrph posted:Found a Reddit thread with a bunch of links, can’t vouch for their quality but it’s a place to start. Cheers. I’ll see what’s good and report back
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Mar 18, 2023 20:46
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Neo Rasa posted:It is removed yeah, such a great shot. But I understand how similar to them not having Shaw actually grapple with the engineer with that overdesigned fire axe, keeping that shot would weaken the Alien because between that and the part where it swats the carrier and runs off towards the end it would make it absolutely undeniable that xenomorphs are canonically scared shitless of cats I mean why else would it run off so fast?  Neo Rasa posted:
I like how the left wall at 1:38 has a sort of bumpy ribbing motif similar to the Derelict and Giger’s artwork, I wonder if that was intentional. I agree that it’s a very good thing they trimmed the scene down to what we got (although other than removing the Jones shot, I don’t remember what else was changed between the director’s cut and the theatrical cut). Having the Alien hanging unseen in the chains is a cool detail for people watching the movie a second time, but having it in plain sight (complete with a music cue!) before it drops down hurts the scene. Likewise, having the Alien linger as long as it does kind of hurts the impact because you get pretty good looks at the creature when “less is more”, and it kind of draws it out a little too much since you know it’s got hostile intent - if it had been handled it a bit more like the Neomorphs in Covenant where they’re *dangerous* but more inquisitive, it could have been a bit more interesting characterization of the Alien. Instead that extended scene kind of belabors the point, whereas the final cuts just get right to it and trim the fat. Interesting that Brett starts bleeding the moment the Alien grabs him, in the final cuts of the movie it’s implied to be from the head-bite and that’s it. I also like the inclusion of Parker and Ripley rushing in and finding the aftermath, with the blood raining down. Xenomrph fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Mar 18, 2023 |
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Mar 18, 2023 20:53
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Yeah I love the blood raining down so much, I believe it's in the director's cut briefly. I do think the director's cut did it best overall, there's a shot of the alien hanging but it's curled up and from above, like if you're seeing the movie for the first time it's technically a clear look at it but not too much. The stuff in this clip is also interesting for the tale usage like with Lambert, IIRC in some early stuff says the tail stings and paralyzes the victim instead of just being another way to kill someone. And it's cool to see the neomorph-esque inquisitiveness, Scott talks about this a bit on the 2003 commentary for Alien of having the alien sort of checking everyone out/being intrigued by everyone but overall I'm glad it was cut. I like the way the height of the alien is used a lot though in concept, but still glad it got cut. Like I like the way it doesn't even really hit the ground but kind of pivots over from where it's standing, good poo poo and effort. FastestGunAlive posted:Cheers. I’ll see what’s good and report back I haven't seen this specific one, but this DM/rotating group has some some cool ones for Death in Space and some other RPGs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn5usWbcLmM Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Mar 18, 2023 |
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Mar 18, 2023 20:54
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but could the mural be classified as humanoid
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Mar 18, 2023 21:12
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Xenomrph posted:Having the Alien hanging unseen in the chains is a cool detail for people watching the movie a second time, but having it in plain sight (complete with a music cue!) before it drops down hurts the scene. I've always liked the shot without the music cue at 0:59. If you haven't seen the movie before/don't know what the Alien looks like, it just looks like some kind of odd machinery hanging up there. Agreed on the second hanging shot with the music cue being unnecessary though.
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Mar 18, 2023 21:34
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Neo Rasa posted:Yeah I love the blood raining down so much, I believe it's in the director's cut briefly. The stinger-tail thing is from ‘Aliens’, in fact that was going to be how Gorman got knocked out in the APC instead of getting concussed by some boxes. The stinger-tail did make a return in the second AvP game though. I can’t recall if it’s in either of the tabletop RPGs but I can check later. Interestingly the Leading Edge RPG came up with the idea that Aliens expel hive-resin from their dorsal tubes and that’s how they build their hives, and can also use them as “spinnerets” to create hive-spanning webs used for communication purposes or something like that. I don’t believe anything else has run with those ideas though. I also liked the rain in Brett’s death scene, the intention being that the room is so cavernous that it has its own weather patterns. Indoor rain (in a spaceship no less) makes the scene even more memorable for how incongruous it all is. Xenomrph fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Mar 18, 2023 |
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Mar 18, 2023 21:39
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ruddiger posted:but could the mural be classified as humanoid One notable thing here is that the mural very clearly depicts the "elephant's trunk" as a spacesuit's breathing tube.
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Mar 18, 2023 21:45
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ruddiger posted:but could the mural be classified as humanoid Okay here's the validation you crave for your petty, inane, white noise forums drama bullshit that adds literally nothing to the thread aside from garbage that everyone has to scroll past. Yes, we all see you've got a stick up your rear end and are trying to stir up poo poo with Xeno for whatever reason but you can give it a break now. Neo Rasa posted:EDIT: It's not as good as what's in any released version of the movie of course, but I really like this fan made clip that just puts together every bit of Brett being taken by the Alien just to have all the stuff in one place for reference. There's a couple of extremely cool shots here I'm not as familiar with: Thanks for sharing this! Obviously total overkill for the scene but that crucifix pose to descent and rising again is so good, even if excessive. Should rewatch Alien since I can't even remember how the original scene actually goes in comparison right now but it's nice to see all the shots for that scene compiled. I've always wondered how much of Alien 3 was still left on the cutting room floor even after they made the extended cut.
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Mar 18, 2023 21:58
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Ferrinus posted:One notable thing here is that the mural very clearly depicts the "elephant's trunk" as a spacesuit's breathing tube. Giger’s original art for the Jockey also put a “dome” over its head.  Giger and Scott ultimately chose to do away with that stuff in favor of “it’s a biomechanoid creature” according to Giger’s diary, although in the introduction to the Prometheus art book Ridley Scott says, “but somebody called it the Space Jockey, and the assumption was that he was skeletal. Then I thought, ‘Well, what happens if he’s not a skeleton?’” Interestingly the Jockey’s “signal” has been shut off three times in three different ways - in the script (and the novelization and graphic novel adaptation if I remember right) Dallas shuts it off when they find the Jockey, James Cameron had it break down at some point between Alien and Aliens due to seismic activity (and the Derelict’s port side “arm” is visibly snapped downward and damaged in the director’s cut of Aliens), and in Alien Isolation a follow-up team that finds the Derelict shuts it off. Xenomrph fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Mar 18, 2023 |
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Mar 18, 2023 22:15
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Xenomrph posted:Interestingly the Jockey’s “signal” has been shut off three times in three different ways - in the script (and the novelization and graphic novel adaptation if I remember right) Dallas shuts it off when they find the Jockey, James Cameron had it break down at some point between Alien and Aliens due to seismic activity (and the Derelict’s port side “arm” is visibly snapped downward and damaged in the director’s cut of Aliens), and in Alien Isolation a follow-up team that finds the Derelict shuts it off. Jockey more like Jigsaw with how many post mortem messages he got out lol I did appreciate that Prometheus and Covenant made it more clear that there's just a lot of wild poo poo out there in general. I'm looking forward to the next film whenever that happens.
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Mar 19, 2023 00:16
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Neo Rasa posted:Jockey more like Jigsaw with how many post mortem messages he got out lol Can’t imagine momentum picks up with the David series anytime soon, at least not while Ridley is likely to direct it. And without Scott, what’s the point?
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Mar 19, 2023 00:43
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Neo Rasa posted:
This is absolutely horrific. The animal grunts Brett is making. He is so paralyzed by fear he’s immobile, able to make only these primitive sounds, possibly about to hyperventilate.
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Mar 19, 2023 01:03
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