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Grain is one of the goods that's very easy to drop down to -15% or lower, especially once you get improved fertilizers. This improves per-worker productivity actually because you end up producing so much more grain that it cancels out the price drop. And having cheap grain is one of the best ways to improve the SoL of your poorest pops since they tend to buy grain directly.
Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Mar 18, 2023 |
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Mar 17, 2023 16:48
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megane posted:My Japan game is going better than that, but is it normal for me to have to carpet the entire country in logging camps? I feel like I'm going to have to go conquer somewhere just to get more wood yeah, until you get better construction methods that consume less wood and fabric with japan especially you need to start ASAP with the wood/tools/iron cycle and beeline for mechanical tool production. tools tools tools
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Mar 17, 2023 16:50
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megane posted:My Japan game is going better than that, but is it normal for me to have to carpet the entire country in logging camps? I feel like I'm going to have to go conquer somewhere just to get more wood Wood is extremely valuable starting out due to its use in construction. It falls off when you switch to steel buildings but it's still used for heating and furniture plus the need for hardwood for guns and luxury goods
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Mar 17, 2023 16:54
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Wood is going to continue being a big problem even after you switch to Steel-Frame Buildings (though that does alleviate the issue somewhat). Through trade or other means, you are going to need more wood than what your home islands offer.
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Mar 17, 2023 16:55
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megane posted:My Japan game is going better than that, but is it normal for me to have to carpet the entire country in logging camps? I feel like I'm going to have to go conquer somewhere just to get more wood Yeah, wood's always a problem, especially if you run a huge construction industry, which you will. Art academies are abnormally small in how many people they employ and how many goods they consume and produce, so size 17's actually not that big, that's only employing about as many people as 3 iron mines. Still needs two railways to serve them, though!
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Mar 17, 2023 16:56
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megane posted:My Japan game is going better than that, but is it normal for me to have to carpet the entire country in logging camps? I feel like I'm going to have to go conquer somewhere just to get more wood You should be able to start transitioning to less wood intensive methods of construction, freeing up demand. Hardwood for furniture and guns? Yeah you can never, ever, ever have enough.
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Mar 17, 2023 19:31
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Any amount of positive price modifier is a sign that you should make more of that good. Since that will be a lot of your goods, you should first prioritize your current construction goods, then any other important industrial goods, then consumer goods. For anyone who doesn't know -- the way V3 models markets, positive price modifiers delete money from your economy, and negative prices generate money for your industries/pops out of nowhere. If you have more sell orders than buy orders, the sellers are getting more money than the buyers spend, and vice versa. Consistently positive prices can be a huge brake on your economy. Pushing the price lower than -50% is also economically counterproductive -- after that point, the lost earnings from the price dropping are bigger the gains from having more sellers and the buyers spending less. There's one specific tooltip where you can see the total monetary result of this effect across your whole market but I don't remember where it is. I think it's the tooltip for the market itself (like for the phrase "British Market"). CrypticTriptych fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Mar 17, 2023 |
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Mar 17, 2023 20:02
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CrypticTriptych posted:For anyone who doesn't know -- the way V3 models markets, positive price modifiers delete money from your economy, and negative prices generate money for your industries/pops out of nowhere. If you have more sell orders than buy orders, the sellers are getting more money than the buyers spend, and vice versa. Consistently positive prices can be a huge brake on your economy. That's utterly bizarre. Do you happen to have a link to an in-depth explanation on how that works? I think I can see the logic - if I have 15,000 buy orders and 10,000 sell orders, then I have 15,000 buyers paying an inflated price, but only 10,000 sellers making money off of the inflated price. Now, the buyers are still getting material, and are still producing whatever secondary thing is made from the material, but some fraction of those 5,000 extra buy orders that are purchasing at an inflated price is lost to the aether.
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Mar 17, 2023 20:24
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You've basically got the logic, but here's a reddit post that goes into a bit more detail: https://www.reddit.com/r/victoria3/comments/y7nzrb/economic_efficiency_goods_price_formula_pt_2/ The post is from pre-release but the "speculation" on the mechanics is all accurate and hasn't changed.
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Mar 17, 2023 20:52
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yeah hovering over the market will show a line with a "balance: number" which you can hover over to see a breakdown of like your top ten bought/sold goods and a general overview, though tbh you can mostly intuit this information from the market price tab. Still neat to see, and yeah helping to tamp down on your highest price stuff (50%+) is generally a good way to make GDP number go up
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Mar 17, 2023 20:55
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Thanks for the info on the pricing model, that's very good to know. On a related note, as it turns out you can toggle automated private investment construction off as a game rule so yeah I'm absolutely doing that on this hopefully final restart. Cheers!
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Mar 17, 2023 22:40
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I got annoyed at the ugly impassable terrain texture, so I made another tiny mod, in case anyone wants it.
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Mar 18, 2023 17:18
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Coming from every other paradox game where diplo-annexing vassals is a thing that requires good relations, I find the vassal/subject system in V3 pretty confusing. There's so many types and the tooltips and interface don't really explain things that well. I think the main idea in V3 is that this wasn't an era of mass map painting and vassal annexing, it was a time when map-painting imperialism transitioned into more economic imperialism via puppet governments and various dominions and such. That's a great idea, the problem is that overlords have pretty much no influence over their subjects in V3. We can't directly build buildings, we can't influence their politics or policies. It's SO much easier to just annex land with the resources you want than deal with the extremely hands off subject system because there's a good chance they'll never do what you need them to do. I'd be totally happy with the game not really being focused around direct map painting if we had more levers available to influence our subjects. If I could directly build those rubber farms I desperate need in my market, or use my influence as overlord to push my subjects towards the same policies and ideology as me, I'd be in heaven. All I want to do is become a utopian council republic and carve out a huge common market of fellow comrade nations. Let me build them up, and let me make sure they don't stray from the path and descend into capitalism or authoritarianism. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Mar 18, 2023 |
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Mar 18, 2023 17:55
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Thankfully, in V3 diplo-annexing isn't really all that necessary and sometimes it's much better to have a country in your market and not part of your core states. In other Paradox games there's almost never any actual downside to being bigger. Honestly, I wish V3 made being larger even more punishing, but that's something I wish were true for all Paradox games. edit: but yeah we really need a way to invest in foreign countries. That's definitely true and the devs are aware of this and have said it's something that will be looked at in the future.
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Mar 18, 2023 18:16
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How exactly do common markets work? I brought a few minor nations into my market and their economies almost instantly went to poo poo. When I look at their buildings it's because they are suddenly lacking a ton of their key inputs, but my market has tons of those goods all at 5-10% price, so no real shortage. Is there a sort of dibs system where I get first dibs, so even though a good is only +10% price that will be enough to totally starve a smaller nation? The worst one I saw was for engines. My market report said something like 800 buy orders and 790 sell orders so very very close, but when I look at any other member in my market they all show a complete and total zero access to engines.
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Mar 18, 2023 18:23
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they probably have low to no market access
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Mar 18, 2023 19:13
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The British just forced my markets open in my Japanese game. Probably because I've already got steel tools up and running and a ridiculous lucrative furniture market. Funny enough the US actually tried to defend me and took most of Canada but then dropped out. Britian ended up navel invading the home isle while I threw all my conscripts at them. Unfortunately they were not armed like my military was and I lost. A bit earlier then I expected (1864) but I guess now I can really push some law changes through while the shogun is weak.
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Mar 19, 2023 06:50
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Ah, jeez, I just realized why Paradox made automated capital investment default: directed capital investment is stupidly powerful in human hands. Chile's starting gold mines makes it so your investment pool is loving massive (700k at 1843) so my construction costs end up being non-existent in practice. This feels a bit absurd now, like I cheated myself out of the industrialization struggle :v
toasterwarrior fucked around with this message at 11:56 on Mar 19, 2023 |
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Mar 19, 2023 11:38
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Oh yeah. The game was a lot easier when you could just get infinite money from having an investment pool. I actually forgot that they left that in as a special game rule. I loaded up Chile just to see what you were grappling with, and man, that's a pretty rough start. Not as bad as the random SE Asian OPMs, but still pretty up there in the scarcity of resources and population department. You start with almost nothing and have very little room to grow. You can't even colonize effectively due to how low your starting population is. I think the play might be to get into the British market early, use their military goods to beef up your limited army and conquer Argentina. Being in the British market also lets you upgrade all of your buildings production methods with no concern for goods availability, boosting your GDP. From there, maybe you can hop onto a boat to West Africa and push into Sokoto, if the Europeans let you. I got into the British market by boosting my relations until they were at +50 then asking for a trade agreement with them for an obligation. That itself is highly valuable since you can trade for their poo poo tariff-free (make sure to set any imported goods trade policies to import-focused), but being in their customs union gives you much more flexibility and certainty. After a short while, of being in a trade agreement together with some trade routes between us, they were fully receptive to me joining their union. From there, you can use their far vaster pool of resources to your advantage. Just try not to grow too reliant on their market, because that has a tendency of leaving you hosed if something were to happen (like a naval blockade or you leaving the market). Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 13:54 on Mar 19, 2023 |
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Mar 19, 2023 13:48
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Chile is recommended as a tutorial nation lol, it's why it caught my eye. I figure they wanted you to use your starting military advantage and gold mines to kick Argentina in the teeth, and then get in good with the Brits like you said since they never seem to drop their interest in the area, unlike the US.
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Mar 19, 2023 13:59
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toasterwarrior posted:Ah, jeez, I just realized why Paradox made automated capital investment default: directed capital investment is stupidly powerful in human hands. Chile's starting gold mines makes it so your investment pool is loving massive (700k at 1843) so my construction costs end up being non-existent in practice. This feels a bit absurd now, like I cheated myself out of the industrialization struggle :v As Haiti going to like 10 construction industry in both my states by 1845: Haha gently caress yeah!!! Yes!! As Haiti losing 30K a month because my incredibly wealthy upper class is constantly building glass factories and I can't stop them: Well this loving sucks. What the gently caress.
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Mar 19, 2023 15:42
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So I just finished an entire game without ever once getting the option to become a concil republic. Had all the tech in the game by the late 1910's but simply never had a single socialist leader. My socialist and intelligencia parties became 100% feminist leaders every time until the end of time. In previous games I'd have the opposite, they'd become communist until the end of time and I'd never be able to get past propertied women. I wish we had more political events to help steer our countries in certain directions. It sucks spending an entire 100 years of the game just kinda waiting for time to pass and hoping the interest leader RNG gave you what you need. Is there some new trick I don't know?
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Mar 19, 2023 19:47
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Baronjutter posted:So I just finished an entire game without ever once getting the option to become a concil republic. Had all the tech in the game by the late 1910's but simply never had a single socialist leader. My socialist and intelligencia parties became 100% feminist leaders every time until the end of time. In previous games I'd have the opposite, they'd become communist until the end of time and I'd never be able to get past propertied women. There’s a tax law event (Death and Taxes) that kills a supporting ig leader. It has no cooldown so you can repeatedly try to pass tax laws until you get a leader you want. The other trick is to backtrack temporarily. Igs will support going from legal guardianship to womens suffrage. Ditto with monarchy to council republic, but the last one might’ve changed with this patch
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Mar 19, 2023 21:07
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By the mid-late game I still have huge unemployment issues and basically never use any of the production methods that decrease workers out of desperate attempt to employ people. What's odd is that these stats will have like 50+ free arable land, but none of them ever become peasants. Can pops never convert "down" to a peasant after long unemployment?
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Mar 19, 2023 23:37
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Did you have any sort of welfare laws? I've kind of wondered if they then see going from unemployed to peasants as a decrease in payment. I've had issues with massive amounts of unemployment but available peasant jobs before.
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Mar 20, 2023 00:04
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Kagon posted:Did you have any sort of welfare laws? I've kind of wondered if they then see going from unemployed to peasants as a decrease in payment. I've had issues with massive amounts of unemployment but available peasant jobs before. I wish there was a way to more directly improve the lives of peasants. Like actually subsidize homesteading or anarchist commune farms or something. I'll have a state that can easily fit like 500k peasants but I'll have 0, while also having 250k unemployed. I'd like to engineer a society where it's better to be a subsidized peasant than it is to be unemployed, without making unemployment a brutal existence. I just want my people to be happy and pampered and living their best lives. Even some sort of abstracted service economy. My society is insanely rich, those masses of unemployed people would absolutely be able to create jobs in a growing service economy.
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Mar 20, 2023 00:20
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I thought welfare laws do just that, they're not just for unemployed pops, they directly add to any pops' income if they fall below minimum cost of living
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Mar 20, 2023 00:24
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Rural electrification method for peasant buildings...?
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Mar 20, 2023 00:27
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Baronjutter posted:I wish there was a way to more directly improve the lives of peasants. Like actually subsidize homesteading or anarchist commune farms or something. I'll have a state that can easily fit like 500k peasants but I'll have 0, while also having 250k unemployed. I'd like to engineer a society where it's better to be a subsidized peasant than it is to be unemployed, without making unemployment a brutal existence. I just want my people to be happy and pampered and living their best lives. More of a service economy would be nice. I just want the standard of living numbers to go up- that's basically my sign of a successful game.
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Mar 20, 2023 00:28
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Rural electrification method for peasant buildings...? Having access to telephones, transportation, and automobiles should also improve their lives, IMO.
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Mar 20, 2023 00:43
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Peasants have no place in my perfect world of glass factories.
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Mar 20, 2023 00:52
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scaterry posted:There’s a tax law event (Death and Taxes) that kills a supporting ig leader. It has no cooldown so you can repeatedly try to pass tax laws until you get a leader you want. It's real easy to switch to council republic if you're a monarchy and your industrialist IG leader is a nihilist or republican, as they'll support the change instead of violently opposing it.
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Mar 20, 2023 03:36
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Is there anything in the game logic that makes IG leaders more radical if the supporting pops are more radical?
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Mar 20, 2023 03:56
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I heard that IGs with approval less than -5 get more radical leader ideologies but I don't know if that's true.
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Mar 20, 2023 04:37
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I just declared independence from the UK as a unified East India company and became India! And at the same time China loving exploded! Never seen that happen before but all these little Chinese states are just the perfect size to puppet. Things I learned: Getting the right tax law when you can is important. I picked the first non-consumption-tax tax law I could (per-capita) to just barely get out of land taxes before I was going to be hit by an event mutiny. But even land taxes would have made me a lot more money than per capita for some reason! And now I can't go for proportional because only the trade unions want it and there are no trade unions in agrarian India. Even if you can't afford to build things (because your tax laws are poo poo) your Construction capacity isn't wasted in a country with a lot of investment. I had to turn off my state construction queue entirely when I was building up my military to repel the British, and, well, the rate of construction didn't slow down at all in India. It was just all private construction. I actually ended up building a lot more construction industries, without queuing anything else up, because there was so much investment available. Even though pan-nationalism lets you become India if British are no longer the overlords of the East India Company, you keep all your leaders. Clive and his buddies remained generals in the Indian army. Only as interest group leaders died were all the white mutton chopped old men replaced by actual Indians. Even then, my devout interest group remained the Anglican Church, which seemed wrong. It was pretty weird! Though the weirdest bit was probably during my independence war- I was still in the British market! I had been preparing for this the whole game so I had like 60% of the munitions production in the British market and I was planning on using the sudden lack of ammo to gently caress over the British but they kept using the bullets my factories were producing against me! Oh well. They only landed one invasion force and I repelled them handily with my massive army of relatively advanced troops so it ended up not being all that hard. India is a lot of fun. I recommend it. It feels like you're struggling a lot, even as a huge country, and it's very satisfying when you pull it off and rip yourself out of the British Empire.
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Mar 20, 2023 06:41
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I'm struggling a bit to understand precisely how private construction works. Can anyone summarize it for me? Like: the private sector seems like it can build anything it likes irrespective of my economy law, but then what does the economy law control? How do they pick what to build? And what determines how much of my construction pool goes towards government vs. private construction? If I hit 'pause all' does that mean all my construction points get diverted to private building?
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Mar 20, 2023 07:08
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megane posted:I'm struggling a bit to understand precisely how private construction works. Can anyone summarize it for me? Like: the private sector seems like it can build anything it likes irrespective of my economy law, but then what does the economy law control? How do they pick what to build? And what determines how much of my construction pool goes towards government vs. private construction? If I hit 'pause all' does that mean all my construction points get diverted to private building? With private construction enabled the primary difference in economy law are A) how much certain pop types (like capitalists or aristocrats) add to the investment pool, B) how much construction the government gets in comparison to the private sector (25% under LF, 100% under command economy, 50% otherwise) and B) what buildings the government can subsidize. They build what they think will make them the most money, which I think means it's weighted towards whatever buildings employ a lot of whatever pop type is adding the most to the investment pool, but that is speculation. And yes, if you stop all government building, the private sector gets 100% of the construction, or at least as much as they can afford to pay.
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Mar 20, 2023 08:20
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toasterwarrior posted:Chile is recommended as a tutorial nation lol, it's why it caught my eye. I figure they wanted you to use your starting military advantage and gold mines to kick Argentina in the teeth, and then get in good with the Brits like you said since they never seem to drop their interest in the area, unlike the US. I imagine the British never drop their interest in the region because they have territory there (the Falklands).
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Mar 20, 2023 08:45
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The private/public spending divisions are for when both sides have full queues. When that is true, the government is able to use 25% of the construction points on LF, 100% of them on a CE, and half of the points in all the others, with the private sectors getting the rest. (note: there is no investment pool at all with command economies) When one side doesn't have a full queue, the other side is able to use any unused construction points. Say you have 200 construction points and are Interventionist. The government gets 100 points to use and the private sector gets 100 points. If you only queue up three buildings though, you'll only be using 60 points. The private sector can then queue up additional buildings to use up to 140 points. The same can happen in reverse—if the private sector can't fund enough new construction to use their allocation, you can take their unused allocation. So if you're a small country in the early game and are building particularly aggressively, you might have 40 construction points but the private sector may only be able to afford 10 points (particularly if iron/wood/tools are expensive, as tends to happen in the early game). In this case, you'll be able to use 30 construction instead of 20, which might be a double-edged sword if you can't afford the construction and were hoping the private sector would pick up more slack. The different economy types do influence what types of buildings are built, sort of. If you look at the construction tabs, you'll see it say that capitalists or aristocrats are raising funds for a new building. The thing is, those funds come from all pops currently investing into the pool, and I'm not really sure how the game decides who is taking the lead on any given construction project. In any case, aristocrats will obviously favor buildings that they get ownership shares in, and likewise for capitalists. So if you go agrarian, you'll get a lot more farms and plantations because it'll be primarily aristocrats building poo poo, while interventionist will have a mix and LF will have a lot of capitalists guiding the private build queue. But these are just general leanings, and it seems that anyone can still pretty much build anything. edit: There were some weird behaviors in the 1.2 betas, but they thankfully all got ironed out for release. For instance, if you were letting the private sector handle 100% of construction but then queued just a single building, they would immediately revert back to their designated construction ratio, leaving a lot of unused construction points on the table. I'll have to double check, but I'm pretty sure the private sector will always take any extra points available now if they can afford to. There was also a bug with a lot of points going unused even if both sides had full queues, but that was thankfully fixed as well. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 09:31 on Mar 20, 2023 |
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Mar 20, 2023 09:22
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My Peru-Bolivia game just started to heat up as my starting Caudillo has died and been replaced by a military dictator from the ranks of the intelligentsia; I'm sort of RPing it to ram through a bunch of unpopular humanist legislation before relinquishing the reigns of autocracy, which had pushed a huge part of the country to the brink of revolt in defence of the Catholic church. It's all been enjoyable dramatic. I will say it is weird that the intelligentsia seem universally progressively humanist, for the lack of a better term. Many of the intellectuals of the period were dedicated to creating scientific justifications for racism, and in cases like the cientificos in Mexico, were fine with endorsing a dictatorship along with liberal economic reform. It'd add some interesting friction to the political systems if the path to early liberal democracy wasn't as simple as 'boost the intelligentsia'.
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Mar 20, 2023 09:34
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