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What will cause the heavyweight title to stay vacant this time? This poll is closed. |
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| Jon Jones goes on a pre-fight bender in Vegas |
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3 | 8.11% |
| Jon Jones goes on a post-fight bender in Vegas |
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1 | 2.70% |
| Jon Jones goes on a mid-fight bender in Vegas |
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4 | 10.81% |
| Jon Jones tests positive for supercocaine, which USADA spends the next three months pretending is normal |
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18 | 48.65% |
| A well-fought majority draw |
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1 | 2.70% |
| No Contest on account of simultaneous dick kicks |
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10 | 27.03% |
| Total: | 37 votes | ||
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DO YALL WANT A BOXC posted:I don’t know that that’s true. they’re rankings and not standings. I think in the eyes of the public/oddsmakers, Colby’s razor thin performances against Usman and his domination over an what looked like an over-the-hill Masvidal probably counts more than a great win over Sean Brady and a good win over Luque. As I said before, I think he’d be the betting favorite against everyone except Shavkat, including Leon, so his ranking makes sense IMO. Sorry but we're not gonna get into semantics over "rankings" versus "standings" as, effectively, they're interchangeable words for the same thing when it comes to the silver number put next to the fighter's name on the graphic. If the rankings actually mattered, which the UFC tries very hard to convey that they do, then beating a "over-the-hill" Jorge Masvidal (who was somehow ranked at #6 at the time) who was on a 2 fight losing streak over a year ago should not catapult you into title contention over a full year later. Even if we extend back to Cody's pre-Masvidal fights, he fought a very clearly "over-the-hill" Tyron Woodley to get a 2nd shot after being TKO'd by Usman. In his second fight with Usman he lost the "razor thin" fight you are claiming he had via a Unanimous Decision where all three of the judges only gave Covington a single round. The scores were 48–47, 48–47, 49–46. One judge only gave Colby 8pts in this "razor thin" fight. Comparatively to Belal, who pretty much everyone right now believes should have his deserved rematch with Leon, the argument that Colby "deserves" (as Dana said) the third title shot falls apart. Since Covington's first Usman fight, Belal has beaten Demian Maia (Maia was #9, then Belal was at #9 after), Stephen Thompson (Thompson was #5, Belal was #9 then moved to #5), Vicente Luque (Luque was #4, Belal was #5 then moved to #4), and Sean Brady (Brady was #8, Belal was #4 then never moved) en route to being ranked....#4 in the UFC's official rankings? Colby has not fought a top 5 contender since 2019, Belal has beaten two. Colby has already fought for the belt twice, and lost summarily both times. Belal has a NC versus the current WW Champion. Colby has been inactive for over a year and still ranks at #1 despite the lack of competition against ranked opponents and losses to Usman. Belal has been active and beaten more top competition than Colby has. If the argument is Colby is a PPV draw, then there's been zero evidence presented thus far other than Dana saying he is without providing any proof. This is like me saying my uncle works for Nintendo. If the argument is that Colby is the clear number 1 contender, then who did he beat in the rankings to qualify for, or even retain, that #1 spot at this point compared to the likes of Belal? You even said it, Colby's last win was a "over-the-hill Masvidal" and that somehow should count more than beating actual competition to justify his third title fight in 4 years despite not beating anyone in the top 5 of the division like Belal has? That's ridiculous and you know it. If the argument is that it's ultimately the UFC & Dana's decision to get the most money making fight possible, then the rankings like I said don't actually matter because then why bother telling people they need to beat ranked opponents when you just get sidelined and someone who hasn't fought higher ranked opponents than you gets an immediate title shot after a year of inactivity? (This is something that is very clearly what Dana, Sean, Mick, et al think of the UFC rankings at this stage). Mekchu fucked around with this message at 07:18 on Mar 20, 2023 |
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Mar 20, 2023 06:53
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Mekchu posted:In his second fight with Usman he lost the "razor thin" fight you are claiming he had via a Unanimous Decision where all three of the judges only gave Covington a single round. The scores were 48–47, 48–47, 49–46. One judge only gave Colby 8pts in this "razor thin" fight. I agree with your overall point but 48-47 is one fighter winning 3 rounds and the other fighter winning 2 rounds, 49-46 is 4-1, there's no 10-8 round in there either way. But yeah, the rankings are bullshit and gently caress colby.
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Mar 20, 2023 07:16
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I'm not a math teacher for a reason, but the point still stands in that A) Colby lost more rounds in that fight than he won, and B) one of the rounds he lost was deemed at 10-8 by a judge so calling it "razor thin" is not how I'd describe it.
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Mar 20, 2023 07:19
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lol I can't tell if I'm being trolled with the 10-8 thing. gently caress it, he lost all 5 rounds 10-8. 50-40 for Usman, that's the official version now.
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Mar 20, 2023 07:27
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Mekchu posted:Sorry but we're not gonna get into semantics over "rankings" versus "standings" as, effectively, they're interchangeable words for the same thing when it comes to the silver number put next to the fighter's name on the graphic. I’m not saying Colby has had a more impressive recent run of victories. I’m saying that in the estimation of most people who watch the sport and also the oddsmakers, he would still be a favorite despite not beating anyone aside from Masvidal recently. because of that, the semantic difference does matter here. he’s not really an egregious choice for a title shot because his skill set means he’ll be a favorite going into that. Muhammad might be, too, but I’m not sure. I would be more of a coinflip on that. I would put Shavkat as a sure favorite. i’m with you on hoping Muhammad gets a shot. he’s an exciting fighter and it’s extremely dark that one of the most notable Palestinian fighters is getting usurped by the gimmick that supports the embassy-in-Jerusalem president. it’s just that this is much less of an lovely title shot IMO than many recent ones because the challenger will be the odds favorite against the champ and also would be against the guy he’s usurping. the second Masvidal fight for example was much worse for that.
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Mar 20, 2023 07:31
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Marching Powder posted:i was just thinking about the era where bisping and mayhem coached tuf and people loving hated bisping for being a bit of a penis, british, and annoyingly competent. am i imagining that? people hated bisping right? like people followed him around and tried to rickroll him with the hendo ko? it seems quaint that a time existeded where you could dislike someone from being annoying when now we've got people who are openly bigoted just being part of the atmosphere and one of the biggest draws in the best divisions is popular BECAUSE of saying and doing hateful things. i mean. Bisping called Jorge Rivera the hard -got. and Rockhold, too. he also called the Diazes White and some other stuff. so yeah, people forget if and why they hate guys. I dislike Bisping for the original reason: he’s Polish. my family is also Polish, and Bisping once messed up the installation of a screen door on a submarine my Grandfather served on and he died.
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Mar 20, 2023 07:58
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in a ten point must system, a 10-10 round is so rare it might as well not exist. you can win an extremely close fight 50-45 if you win all five rounds by a thin margin. while most 48-47 fights are close fights, it doesn't mean a 50-45 can't be and it doesn't mean the other dude got dominated
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Mar 20, 2023 08:13
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DO YALL WANT A BOXC posted:i mean. Bisping called Jorge Rivera the hard -got. and Rockhold, too. he also called the Diazes White and some other stuff. Oh good I thought mma had somehow got it worse. gently caress old bisping. Saying that though if you were to look at my posts from the bisping tuf era I'd likely be saying some pretty heinous poo poo too. No I do not want anyone to check. I was a prick. Probably still am but haven't found out exactly how yet.
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Mar 20, 2023 08:25
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Marching Powder posted:i was just thinking about the era where bisping and mayhem coached tuf and people loving hated bisping for being a bit of a penis, british, and annoyingly competent. am i imagining that? people hated bisping right? like people followed him around and tried to rickroll him with the hendo ko? it seems quaint that a time existeded where you could dislike someone from being annoying when now we've got people who are openly bigoted just being part of the atmosphere and one of the biggest draws in the best divisions is popular BECAUSE of saying and doing hateful things. For one boxc's right and Bisping was big on the Bad Words, but for two, the big thing with Bisping wasn't just that he was a dick, it's that he was a dick who absolutely could not handle other people being a dick. He'd make fun of you and say you were on steroids and call you gay slurs, but if you so much as called him stupid he would hold multiple press conferences about how you were a terrible bully and you should be ashamed of yourself. He had a full-on meltdown on TUF about anti-British racism because someone called him whiter than a band-aid. It was the most grating thing in the world, made moreso by the way it seemingly wasn't an act and he was actually just that much of a jackass. This also applied to his chastising everyone else in the sport for being a cheater but himself while excusing his own cheating constantly as normal and fine. Completely insufferable human who is only now bearable because he is directly contrasted against the Dominick Cruz lizardpeople the UFC puts on the broadcast team. DO YALL WANT A BOXC posted:I’m not saying Colby has had a more impressive recent run of victories. I’m saying that in the estimation of most people who watch the sport and also the oddsmakers, he would still be a favorite despite not beating anyone aside from Masvidal recently. I get what you're saying, but I don't think it tracks. If the worthiness of championship matches were determined solely on who's most likely on-paper to beat the champion you could've given Khamzat Chimaev and Shavkat Rakhmonov title shots before they were even in the top fifteen, you'd still be re-running Aljo/Yan and the UFC would be in an active bidding war for Demetrious Johnson. But it's not, and it never has been. Divisional structure exists to try to put momentum behind up-and-coming fighters, to put pressure on the UFC itself to maintain divisions with enough credibility that they always have an active set of contenders, and to give the audience a reason to care about any match that isn't a championship match. Divorcing Colby Covington's title shot from the context of the welterweight division because he's a good style matchup against Leon is applying a rubric for title shots that has not historically existed at any point in UFC history, and the simplest way to prove it is to ask yourself if you think Dana is making the match more because he thinks Colby is statistically likely to win, or more because he likes Colby and, additionally, money.
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Mar 20, 2023 08:51
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CarlCX posted:He had a full-on meltdown on TUF about anti-British racism because someone called him whiter than a band-aid. lol
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Mar 20, 2023 09:21
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actually hang on mma is worse now. bisping was a piece of poo poo but at least he was hated for it. and he had the decency to let hendo explode his head completely the gently caress off.
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Mar 20, 2023 09:25
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Marching Powder posted:actually hang on mma is worse now. bisping was a piece of poo poo but at least he was hated for it. and he had the decency to let hendo explode his head completely the gently caress off. we've all lost something in a post-hendo world. Also apropos of nothing I was backtracking to last year's March thread for the last time we had to care about Colby Covington, and in just the past twelve months the heavyweight, light-heavyweight (twice!), middleweight, welterweight, lightweight, flyweight, women's bantamweight, women's flyweight and women's strawweight titles have changed hands, and I wonder if that's a record amount of turnover for one year, because good lord.
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Mar 20, 2023 12:11
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that title turnover rate is absolutely crazy. and god bless hendo. since the first mention of him being shot i've seen him explode bisping's head, embarrass fedor, and still had some heart left to give us both late career shogun fights. not content with that absurd resume, when every person on earth was begging him to retire, he felt strongly that he needed to kill hector lombard first. which he did. god bless dan henderson.
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Mar 20, 2023 12:22
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hendo looks like a troll doll (without the hair) that came alive solely to break peoples jaws, he's p cool
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Mar 20, 2023 13:24
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kimbo305 posted:Where's Jingliang's cooking show dammit. I've been asking this.
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Mar 20, 2023 13:52
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Marching Powder posted:that title turnover rate is absolutely crazy. He also knocked a tooth out of one Daniel Cormier.
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Mar 20, 2023 14:14
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it's 2023 and valentina shevchenko, kumaru usman and israel idesanya are no longer champions......but jon jones is
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Mar 20, 2023 14:27
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Booking because "someone is a draw" is part of Dana's anti-labour exploitative approach to managing the UFC. There's no metric out there available for what constitutes "a draw," other than "Dana White personally likes this fighter," and it's not like boxing where the fighters are the ones who benefit the most financially from the big matchups to balance it out.
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Mar 20, 2023 14:48
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i'm no statistician but i would imagine there's a significant link between "fighter is a draw" and "the ufc has actually advertised one of their fights". they directly control who is and isn't a draw by how much they want to talk about them and it's only the exceptional athletes who break this as a rule. easy to say Shayilan Nuerdanbieke (they're on the Izzy card I looked it up i don't know who they are) isn't a draw when they're on the second fight of the card, in an empty arena, and it's their fourth ufc fight. even Mighty Mouse at his very best struggled to draw because the UFC wouldn't do poo poo to actually help sell his fights and his name was made on the back of being extremely good at kicking the poo poo out of people. Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Mar 20, 2023 |
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Mar 20, 2023 14:52
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But where we are "a draw" is a 1:1 synonym with "Dana likes them" and it has no other meaning. He said Nate Diaz and Francis Ngannou weren't draws. It's just his excuse to make fighters he dislikes, usually non-white non-american non-anglo non-fascist fighters, in the women's divisions who aren't conventionally attractive, and who speak out for labour rights take a longer, harder path to the title, and to consolodate his power in his cult of personality. Don't accept his logic.
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Mar 20, 2023 15:04
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He loving suplexed someone into an armbar and tapped him out in seconds just because he could. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvxDU8xb0r0
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Mar 20, 2023 15:05
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Hmm. Sounds dumb, I'll take one Ben Askren, please.
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Mar 20, 2023 15:08
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Meanwhile, in Japan https://twitter.com/Boco_T/status/1637819836435660806
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Mar 20, 2023 15:20
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TheKingslayer posted:Hmm. Sounds dumb, I'll take one Ben Askren, please. Ben Askren's UFC run included getting knocked out three seconds into a match and maia choking him out with only one arm. I love mighty mouse, but I won't even pretend like Askren's UFC run was anything other than comedy gold.
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Mar 20, 2023 15:27
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In a way you can say the Askren trade ended up being a win for the UFC because it made Jorge a star through the KO, but that's more a happy accident for them than some shrewd business move. I also don't blame Mighty Mouse for being fed up with the UFC's bullshit and wanting the trade.
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Mar 20, 2023 15:41
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https://www.mmafighting.com/2023/3/17/23645027/missed-fists-rampage-jackson-and-bob-sapp-train-for-siamese-twin-fight-at-fight-circus-6 Fight Circus giving us the freakshow fight nobody asked for.
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Mar 20, 2023 16:29
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mariooncrack posted:https://www.mmafighting.com/2023/3/17/23645027/missed-fists-rampage-jackson-and-bob-sapp-train-for-siamese-twin-fight-at-fight-circus-6 But which everyone needs
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Mar 20, 2023 17:16
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Mekchu posted:Speaking of rankings. Myself, CommonShore and CarlCX all got together and aggregated our rankings for MMA and wrote an article for it, as well as other articles by us, LobsterMobster, and Boco_T. This is great and thank you. Small note though: Charles Oliveira is ranked twice in 155lbs. Which I'm all for.
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Mar 20, 2023 17:39
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CarlCX posted:This also applied to his chastising everyone else in the sport for being a cheater but himself while excusing his own cheating constantly as normal and fine. Can someone summarize this? I wasn't paying close attention to mma during his career.
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Mar 20, 2023 17:40
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How was last weekend's PPV? I'm spoiler free and haven't read the thread since then. It should drop on fight pass in a few hours so might watch tonight. Any must watch or skip fights?
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Mar 20, 2023 17:52
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Lucasar posted:This is great and thank you. Thanks that's a spreadsheet error which I will fix now.
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Mar 20, 2023 17:55
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GTO posted:How was last weekend's PPV? I'm spoiler free and haven't read the thread since then. It should drop on fight pass in a few hours so might watch tonight. Any must watch or skip fights? Answering with regard to the whole (15 fight) card and not just the PPV; I think all the fights were at least pretty good, nothing boring/bad comes to mind. Obviously the co-main is a must-watch but we all knew that going in to it. The thread title for the GDT gives you a bit of a hint about several fight uh, situations.
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Mar 20, 2023 18:10
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https://twitter.com/SpinninBackfist/status/1637600391377346560 this dude's so hosed https://twitter.com/muhammadmokaev/status/1637615789695029249
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Mar 20, 2023 19:58
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wow fighters are dumb as poo poo
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Mar 20, 2023 20:05
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dana cackling demonically as he grows younger, redder and richer
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Mar 20, 2023 20:06
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DO YALL WANT A BOXC posted:the few PPVs he's headlined have been reported to do well Sort of. One of the PPVs he headlined, a stacked, heavily promoted one featuring another title fight and Justin Gaethje, did well. The next time he headlined, the numbers were never released. You can't really extrapolate that he's more popular than guys who've never been in a comparable position on a comparable card. If you want to bring up his social media numbers, they were loving dogshit for years, until he started being put in main events regularly. Josuke Higashikata posted:easy to say Shayilan Nuerdanbieke (they're on the Izzy card I looked it up i don't know who they are) isn't a draw when they're on the second fight of the card, in an empty arena, and it's their fourth ufc fight. even Mighty Mouse at his very best struggled to draw because the UFC wouldn't do poo poo to actually help sell his fights and his name was made on the back of being extremely good at kicking the poo poo out of people. I had a look at one point and found that a huge chunk of DJ's contenders had never even fought on a main card before they fought him. These guys, most of whom were really loving good and dangerous, were buried in the prelims, most of them on fight night cards. And then the UFC had the temerity to wonder why fans weren't that interested in his fights. beep by grandpa posted:wow fighters are dumb as poo poo Nothing is going to top Angela Magana getting put in traction for not tapping to a twist in training but I see fighters will give being dumber a shot.
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Mar 20, 2023 22:19
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beep by grandpa posted:wow fighters are dumb as poo poo "Do you wanna be a fighter?" - Dana White
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Mar 20, 2023 22:27
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It's really funny that he blew up his own knee to prove he's the best on the show that announced Anderson Silva's UFC HOF induction, a man who was famous for losing by submission to an upset leg lock before he went on his career-defining run.
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Mar 20, 2023 22:33
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I saw some poo poo on twitter that's probably fake, but apparently Leon said he'd just straight up refuse to fight Colby next, anyone got an actual source for this?
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Mar 20, 2023 23:22
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Radical 90s Wizard posted:I saw some poo poo on twitter that's probably fake, but apparently Leon said he'd just straight up refuse to fight Colby next, anyone got an actual source for this? Both in the in-cage post-fight interview and post-fight press conference he said Colby doesn't deserve it and doesn't see how that makes any sense and wants to go to the PPV in Miami to scope Masvidal vs Burns which 100% makes more sense for several factors.
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Mar 20, 2023 23:31
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