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So I had a thought while I was drifting off to sleep last night. What if I'm going about unemployment the wrong way by trying to use low-tech production methods to hire the most people possible? What if my economy throwing armied of labour at every problem was keeping SoL low, which in turn wasn't generating enough consumer demand? I slowly turned on every single high tech production method I could. Millions of labourers were put out of jobs, but the SoL of the remaining workers skyrocketed. This didn't seem to really increase demand for consumer stuff like I had hoped, but what it did do of course was massively increase demand for tools, power, engines, coal. Expanding those related industries ended up creating a ton of new employment, although I'm not sure it created enough to compensate for the millions of unemployed low-level workers. What it DID do was fix my finances. I went from the entire economy of france barely making 2-5k to it shooting up to 80-100k. My average SoL still sucks, 70% of my population is still unemployed and growing, but at least my finances are more solid. I still just hate it though, from a role playing perspective I'm trying to build some sort of super high SoL Utopia but these millions and millions of unemployed frenchmen are ruining my ability to feel human.
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Mar 21, 2023 17:25
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Wiz posted:I do agree that the AI is probably a bit eager to get into plays without anything major to gain by it, but one of the things I do feel people miss is that even if Britain likes you, maybe they like they other guy more? It's not just your relations that factor in a play. I can understand that maybe the country in question would think "Persia has a strong economy, I should get a treaty port there" but it just happens a lot and can be exasperating, especially when I'm not particularly good at the game yet. AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Mar 21, 2023 |
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Mar 21, 2023 17:25
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Wiz posted:I do agree that the AI is probably a bit eager to get into plays without anything major to gain by it, but one of the things I do feel people miss is that even if Britain likes you, maybe they like they other guy more? It's not just your relations that factor in a play. It's like you guys forget that the country you're attacking is an actor too, which I guess is very 19th century of you but yeah. It's an information I keep searching for whenever I'm about to declare war. I'd love to see at least a relations number by the "nations that might join or stay neutral" popup, showing me how each of those nations behaves towards the target (or, to maybe make it less mechanical, their sentiment towards the nation (indifferent/protective/etc.).
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Mar 21, 2023 17:31
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I wish there was any sort of kinship between socialist states. For the longest time france was the only council republic in the world. Spain was part of my market and ally, but also a monarchy. They had a revolution, I was forced to protect my ally but my troops did nothing and let the revolution happen. The new communist spain HATED my guts though. Ok, I can see that since I was technically on the wrong side of the revolution. But then Germany peacefully reformed into a council republic and went from liking me to rivaling me and building up to invade me. It seems like there should be some certain amount of kinship between fellow council republics.
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Mar 21, 2023 17:33
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Wiz posted:Buildings are probably sniping employees from each other because the state has run out of workforce. I kinda wish the capitalist AI would stop building stuff in states with 0 labor...
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Mar 21, 2023 17:39
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Socialist nations should be friends in common struggle against the rest of the world unless one of the nations practices the wrong kind of socialism (or worse, anarchism) in which case they should be mortal enemies
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Mar 21, 2023 17:40
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megane posted:A couple of thoughts on the needs above: extremely rich pops should also have a small demand for clippers/steamboats/planes as well imo. Maybe an easter egg demand for tanks/ironclads/arty at "nation-state wealth levels" of 80+
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Mar 21, 2023 17:42
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You can actually see an AI's relative preference for you vs your play target in one of the tooltips somewhere. You definitely want to keep relations high with the great powers who have an interest in the region you're conducting plays in, which gives you a lot of leeway. It also feels like the amount of leeway you're given for having good relations is reduced when you have more than 25 infamy, and there's very little leeway when over 50 infamy. I'm not sure if that's exactly how it works, but it sure seems that way. Even so, I'd like to see the AI consider neutrality more when they like both sides of a conflict. I had a play against an insignificant power as a great power, and a GB I was on decent terms with joined the play against me because... i guess the insignificant power raised relations to +50 and my play brought me to +40 or so? These situations always seem stupid. Like, they're too eager to start a hell war with a country they mostly like over a single-state minor.
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Mar 21, 2023 17:43
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:You can actually see an AI's relative preference for you vs your play target in one of the tooltips somewhere. You definitely want to keep relations high with the great powers who have an interest in the region you're conducting plays in, which gives you a lot of leeway. It also feels like the amount of leeway you're given for having good relations is reduced when you have more than 25 infamy, and there's very little leeway when over 50 infamy. I'm not sure if that's exactly how it works, but it sure seems that way. Gaining infamy drops relations immediately, and having high infamy drops relations further, so yeah, it can be really tough to gauge the post-infamy willingness of a great power to jump in against you.
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Mar 21, 2023 17:50
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Wiz posted:I do agree that the AI is probably a bit eager to get into plays without anything major to gain by it, but one of the things I do feel people miss is that even if Britain likes you, maybe they like they other guy more? It's not just your relations that factor in a play. It's like you guys forget that the country you're attacking is an actor too, which I guess is very 19th century of you but yeah. I fully support the AI joining wars against you if they have something to gain, but there's not enough information to anticipate when it is going to happen. There are a ton of confounding factors that can change during a diplomatic play, but if it's possible adjusting the initial tool tip to alert you about countries who are technically neutral but would still join for an obligation (or equivalent value) it would help a lot. The system's chaos can be awesome, I was playing as Greece and planned to retake my northern core from the Ottomans when the inevitable war with Egypt kicked off. The tool tip said France would likely join on my side, and actually did for a treaty port in Tripoli. What I didn't predict was that the UK hates France & immediately counter-joined for some nasty promises of my territory. This meant I had to use my remaining maneuvers to call in Russia (initially shown as neutral, but rivaled to the Ottomans) instead of claiming more of Macedonia, and while I won it was still close call. Blorange fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Mar 21, 2023 |
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Mar 21, 2023 17:56
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To be fair, sometimes their "gain" is kicking you in the teeth. I do it to the AI as well from time to time, simply because I don't want them to get the thing that they're fighting for.
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Mar 21, 2023 18:08
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megane posted:Poor people drank tea, even in the UK, right? Well actually...  Back in the day tea wasn't really much of a recreational drink in Europe, rather treated like on of your many herbal infusions. It was a heavily taxed niche import good, with arguably Russia being a bit ahead of the curve in terms of popularity as a common drink (but their tea drinking traditions mostly stuck to the russosphere and maybe the nearest nations). But then a time came when British East India Company started butting heads with China - which, among other things, had a de facto monopoly on growing tea. So around the time of opium wars the Brits have decided they might as well break the Chinese monopoly on this moderately popular drink to further gently caress with the country, and perhaps find themselves a new hustle since EIC just lost the exclusive right to trade with China. So they basically sent a bunch of botanists to steal seedlings and know-how and made a massive push to establish massive, massive production in India, their endless reservoir of cheap labor and arable land. So they basically crashed the market, redefined tea as a cheap (or should I say relatively cheaper normal-priced) casual drink for the masses and it eventually spread from the UK to the rest of Europe at large.
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Mar 21, 2023 18:09
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megane posted:A couple of thoughts on the needs above: One idea this discussion led me to is that maybe the investment percentage of a pop should scale with its Wealth, modifying the constant rate set by your economy law. That way those Wealth 66 pops might instead top out at 40-something SoL, while dumping a lot more into the investment pool. It's realistic, helps bound SoL to the intended range, and would be a more interesting dynamic for capitalists in general.
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Mar 21, 2023 18:28
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Blorange posted:I fully support the AI joining wars against you if they have something to gain, but there's not enough information to anticipate when it is going to happen. There are a ton of confounding factors that can change during a diplomatic play, but if it's possible adjusting the initial tool tip to alert you about countries who are technically neutral but would still join for an obligation (or equivalent value) it would help a lot. Yeah for sure we have more work to do on surfacing this information and telling you why the AI makes the decisions it makes. It's a tricky thing to get the feeling of right, particularly since players all have their own ideas about what is or isn't reasonable for the AI to do.
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Mar 21, 2023 18:30
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Dirk the Average posted:Gaining infamy drops relations immediately, and having high infamy drops relations further, so yeah, it can be really tough to gauge the post-infamy willingness of a great power to jump in against you. This is one of the things where I have on my todo to add better predictions for sure.
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Mar 21, 2023 18:30
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Like Dirk the Average said, its not that the little guys are necessarily doing something to sway GB, its that GB wants to be in on the war so they can beat you up. have you tried using the game option/mode/variant that explicitly does that? I started using the aggressive AI (general) option and it's made the game worlds a lot better/more interesting for me, personally
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Mar 21, 2023 18:33
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Yeah, like, I'm not particularly upset that France, who I had good relations and a trade agreement with, joined against me when I tried to annex my puppet Mexico and rocketed back up to 99 infamy, but I would like to know why they joined in and not Italy, who was my actual rival at the time. Also it would have been helpful to know who might join in against us before our only options are A) to fight it, or B) to possibly lose territory. The list of people who have interests in the area is nice I guess but way too vague.
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Mar 21, 2023 18:35
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:have you tried using the game option/mode/variant that explicitly does that? I started using the aggressive AI (general) option and it's made the game worlds a lot better/more interesting for me, personally
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Mar 21, 2023 18:36
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I'm open to try new things.... are you saying the setting to make the AI more aggressive helps with them joining plays against you? Does it make the AI usually more busy doing its own thing because its more aggressive and therefore less likely to have the free time/energy to mess with you? No, i'm saying there's literally an option that gauges the AI's aggression towards players specifically (which is actually on by default when using the learn the game variant). I think this option may produce games that are more enjoyable for you, I have no idea how this would interact with also turning general AI aggression high, could be interesting and produce the outcome you described above.
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Mar 21, 2023 18:42
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:No, i'm saying there's literally an option that gauges the AI's aggression towards players specifically (which is actually on by default when using the learn the game variant). I think this option may produce games that are more enjoyable for you, I have no idea how this would interact with also turning general AI aggression high, could be interesting and produce the outcome you described above.
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Mar 21, 2023 18:59
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I always play with high AI aggression and the game feels extremely normal to me so either medium aggression is actually quite peaceful or maybe this setting just doesn't do much
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Mar 21, 2023 19:07
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Also, I haven’t seen anyone talk about the new music settings. Maybe most okay without it? I extremely like the idea of ambiant music being the norm with the occasional original piece. I’d perhaps add two more steps between balanced and the other options, but that’s me.
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Mar 21, 2023 20:07
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RabidWeasel posted:I always play with high AI aggression and the game feels extremely normal to me so either medium aggression is actually quite peaceful or maybe this setting just doesn't do much It's the latter, imo. Extra aggressive AI seems to help get them over the "oh dear what if someone hops in" hump enough that GPs will actually expand their colonial holdings and whatnot. Unrelated, but has anyone noticed that the journal entries for buildings with a certain % of occupation seems to count unconstructed ones as well? Deleting them from the queue didn't fix it either iirc, so there's some wonkiness right now with maximizing your RP gain in how you develop some countries
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Mar 21, 2023 20:39
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Baronjutter posted:I wish there was any sort of kinship between socialist states. For the longest time france was the only council republic in the world. Spain was part of my market and ally, but also a monarchy. They had a revolution, I was forced to protect my ally but my troops did nothing and let the revolution happen. The new communist spain HATED my guts though. Ok, I can see that since I was technically on the wrong side of the revolution. But then Germany peacefully reformed into a council republic and went from liking me to rivaling me and building up to invade me. At least this is how I think it should work. I've seen the AI reassess their stance in quite extreme ways before and I would hope that there's some reasoning like this behind it, rather than just random fluctuations. Dirk the Average posted:To be fair, sometimes their "gain" is kicking you in the teeth. I do it to the AI as well from time to time, simply because I don't want them to get the thing that they're fighting for. The AI probably should intervene less because it feels random and is frustrating, but it's absolutely plausible that a country would do everything they could to stop you expanding in an area that they, by definition, have an interest in. I always wish they wouldn't intervene, but I almost never think they shouldn't intervene. It basically always makes sense. I wish you could set a popup letting you know when particular countries are at war. If France and Britain are always interfering in all my poo poo, I just need to wait until they're at war with each other over some random country in West Africa to do all my imperialism.
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Mar 21, 2023 20:43
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Honestly in my experience playing a normal aggression game GPs love conquering random African and Asian minors.
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Mar 21, 2023 20:45
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Trying out the beta branch now. Tons of random empty building slots are showing the little "not enough workers" icon now. Doesn't seem like an actual problem but is anyone else getting this?
Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Mar 21, 2023 |
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Mar 21, 2023 20:46
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Wiz posted:Yeah for sure we have more work to do on surfacing this information and telling you why the AI makes the decisions it makes. It's a tricky thing to get the feeling of right, particularly since players all have their own ideas about what is or isn't reasonable for the AI to do. It seems like that’s what the “leaning” stance should be for. I rarely see countries make use of it; I just get a big list of countries that “could support either side” and then, at some point, they get Swayed by the enemy with no buildup or warning. The impression I got from how this system was described pre-release is that there should be some sort of jockeying and negotiation possible to slide France (or whomever) to your side. If the enemy offers them something to join, I should have the chance to put up a counter offer. So, I’d really like to see the process be more gradual and interactive. In my mind, countries should almost always put themselves in the leaning column for a while before they commit to a side. Sways should have a delayed effect that puts them on your side after a month or something. And during that period, there should be things the opposition can reasonably do to pull them back onto the fence; maybe some sort of mini-sway that isn’t strong enough to get them on your side but is enough to make them prefer neutrality. Sways are unpleasantly rare; I almost always have a big fat zero possible Sways despite being buddies with a large number of countries. Failing that, I think it would be reasonable to at least mark countries that my opponent can sway, but which I can’t, as leaning their way. That has nothing to do with the AI’s intentions; it’s just mechanical fact that this country is one (simulated) click away from joining the enemy. The fact that Vanuatu can call in the entire British Empire to fight me is pretty vital information to have before I start a play! megane fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Mar 21, 2023 |
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Mar 21, 2023 20:50
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Baronjutter posted:Trying out the beta branch now. Tons of random empty building slots are showing the little "not enough workers" icon now. Doesn't seem like an actual problem but is anyone else getting this? https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/information-about-hotfix-1-2-5-updated-to-1-2-6-21-03-2023.1574900/ Not sure what the appeal of this beta is. The only issue it addresses that I've ever seen myself are the bald heirs. As a beta it's naturally going to introduce a few issues, which at this point is just a tradeoff for fixing a few issues that have never been an issue for me. I'm glad it's got fixes incoming, but I'm going to stick with the stable for now.
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Mar 21, 2023 20:54
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I was also musing about this last night and figured that if you had plenty of arable land, you could make up for the wage difference with welfare since peasants are technically working jobs. That said, I can think of more solutions: 1) Just Keep Conquering for good resource nodes or 2) Become an export economy and retain free trade, overproduce advanced goods and sell them to the world. No idea if the latter works out, or even if the whole welfare boost for peasants thing works but it's something I'll keep in mind for next runs.
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Mar 21, 2023 21:21
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Eiba posted:I always wish they wouldn't intervene, but I almost never think they shouldn't intervene. It basically always makes sense. I understand the AI is going to intervene once in a while and it should be a pain in the rear end sometimes, but not all the time. Especially when they have zero capability to project power to the theatre, own no land there, and have zero protectorates/vassals/subjects of whatever flavor there. I'll stop posting about it now. I love the game either way and only have some minor quibbles otherwise. e.g. I would love to turn DEI into actual Indonesia and have Indonesian leaders but I expect that will come in time.
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Mar 21, 2023 21:41
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Eiba posted:
Yea, I'm usually discouraged from diplo plays for the same reason. I feel like the build up should work like changing laws where it might build up quicker or slower and you get events where you can influence countries or even sabotage your target if they are trying to do the same. At the end of the timer give each country an option to declare war if they want or work to extend the play. You can even have small percentages for a random event that accidently kicks off the war. If both countries decided to extend, or even if a greater power intervenes the timer starts again.
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Mar 21, 2023 21:45
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I brought it up because of this - they intervene when they shouldnt. Austria should not be trying to protect Mingdunao (spelling? The Phillipine minor next to Sulu) from me (DEI) when their wooden navy just got horribly thrashed by my modern Dreadnaught & Destroyer navy that outnumbers them when they JUST tried to stop me from taking Sulu where they lost a million men to convoy raiding and getting trapped on some jungle island none of said million dead men had ever heard of before. The British East India Company has an event when it gets independent where it can chose to remain under Anglo rule if you really want, or break apart into princely states, or (if you have pan-nationalism) just form India. It's a bit weird and it takes time for the old English leaders to be replaced by Indians, but it's an option. The Dutch East Indies should really just have that exact same event. It's not perfect, but the alternative is kind of silly. I've seen an independent DEI pretty often and there should really be an event to make that a bit more sane. Zig-Zag posted:Yea, I'm usually discouraged from diplo plays for the same reason. I feel like the build up should work like changing laws where it might build up quicker or slower and you get events where you can influence countries or even sabotage your target if they are trying to do the same. At the end of the timer give each country an option to declare war if they want or work to extend the play. You can even have small percentages for a random event that accidently kicks off the war. If both countries decided to extend, or even if a greater power intervenes the timer starts again. Eiba fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Mar 21, 2023 |
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Mar 21, 2023 22:10
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I brought it up because of this - they intervene when they shouldnt. Austria should not be trying to protect Mingdunao (spelling? The Phillipine minor next to Sulu) from me (DEI) when their wooden navy just got horribly thrashed by my modern Dreadnaught & Destroyer navy that outnumbers them when they JUST tried to stop me from taking Sulu where they lost a million men to convoy raiding and getting trapped on some jungle island none of said million dead men had ever heard of before. I think that part of it is how easy it is to eventually get an interest all over the world. Some restrictions on where you can have an interest, like a requirement to be adjacent to a territory that you have or something similar, might help with that. Something similar to naval range in EU4, essentially, where you can't project your power all over the world unless you actually have the ability to get there.
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Mar 21, 2023 22:24
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Power projection is presumably going to be a big part of the naval rework expansion whenever they get around to doing it (hopefully relatively early in the lifecycle, Brittania ruling the waves is kinda the period's whole gimmick after all). Trade/navy range and coaling stations, naval bases, etc. are all sorely missing right now for sure. Copy-pasting the land war mechanics onto the ocean feels pretty facile and just a "good enough" placeholder to rush the game to 1.0 release, it's a huge hole where a real navy system needs to go eventually.
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Mar 21, 2023 23:26
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I got two questions from my last playthrough: 1) How quickly can pops migrate from state to state in your country? I mostly just turned states with lots of peasants into my industrial centers, but if I used the migration decree and built poo poo elsewhere, will they move there at a good rate or should I just go where the people decide to go? 2) How do I quickly mitigate unrest from conquered pops? The only method I see that I neglected to use due to authority crunch is the welfare decree, and I figured that won't do poo poo if I don't have any welfare institution in place.
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Mar 22, 2023 00:50
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2.) Violent suppression decree cuts 50% of the penalties for turmoil, it's your most straightforward way of mitigating the issue.
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Mar 22, 2023 01:09
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toasterwarrior posted:I got two questions from my last playthrough: 1) slowly. Mass migrations can be quick, but normal migration is slow. Even with greener grass and lots of open jobs, it can take years for those jobs to fill up. 2) The welfare edict works even if you have no welfare because I believe the modifier is additive. It can help deradicalize a populace and lower turmoil, but the alternative answer is to have a leveled-up police institution and use violent suppression so you can mostly ignore the penalties.
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Mar 22, 2023 01:18
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In my most recent US game, where I had control of about 3/4 of China and all of Japan, my states with open jobs were getting a little over 2k pops a week. The states in China were losing around 3k pops a week or so, and were still growing thanks to all of the -% mortality from healthcare and worker's rights. So I would definitely agree that internal migration is slow, in that it's hard for it to actually depopulate a state, but it can definitely add up if you get some high pop states from China or India or Japan and pass multiculturalism to allow them to migrate (discriminated pops will not migrate).
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Mar 22, 2023 03:48
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Thanks for the answers, guys, I totally forgot about about the violent suppression decree too. I didn't see the need to institute police in that run but they totally would've helped a lot when I was conquering Argentina.
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Mar 22, 2023 05:56
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Eiba posted:Not sure what the appeal of this beta is. The only issue it addresses that I've ever seen myself are the bald heirs. As a beta it's naturally going to introduce a few issues, which at this point is just a tradeoff for fixing a few issues that have never been an issue for me. I'm glad it's got fixes incoming, but I'm going to stick with the stable for now. The main fix for me is for the bug where buildings get stuck with a single worker hired and never hire or fire them. That one's quite bad if you suffer it.
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Mar 22, 2023 10:19
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