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Blu is entirely where it's supposed to be
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Mar 22, 2023 18:05
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| # ? May 31, 2024 02:59 |
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FuturePastNow posted:Why would anyone except hardcore raiders want to play a buff/debuff job? People in this thread constantly cry about wanting to play a more support heavy class what are you talking about?
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Mar 22, 2023 18:16
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Countblanc posted:You're thinking of Elementalist. Green Mage was a buff/debuff class who had the usual suite of Protect and friends, and also weird poo poo like Oil and Leap. Right, but they were also Viera exclusive. So I would be pretty into focusing on the Viera and Green bit, rather than what they historically used for spells. But also my ideal Green Mage is a nature themed debuff caster with a damage profile similar to bard where they're getting a fair amount from their group hitting the debuffed target rather than their own actions (similar to hard songs). Heck combine it with Elementalist (sometimes also known as Shaman). They're both Viera exclusive in tactics A2. Viera Shaman as a job could be a cool way to do it. I just thought Green Mage was more traditionally close the final fantasy naming schemes.
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Mar 22, 2023 18:38
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Sentient Data posted:The class is more of a toy than anything, what would it take to be considered not neglected? What BLU was originally intended to be (side content based around the Masked Carnivale) and what it ended up becoming are two different animals. Some people (myself included) really enjoyed the updates where they fleshed out BLU's toolkit and opened up all-BLU runs of content (including savage raids) and have been eagerly awaiting the next round of updates, because until the next level bump happens there just isn't anything more to do. Quite frankly, in order to be considered not neglected, it would need an additional content infusion (in the form of a level cap increase, and presumably some more spells added to the toolkit). The problem is, after the initial 4.5x release with subsequent updates coming in 5.1x and 5.4x, BLU has had nothing. We're a couple months out from 6.4, and it's been more than two years since the last time BLU has had an update. Since BLU is excluded from the duty finder, the only way to play BLU mage is to solo content (which can be interesting, but isn't something I want to do all the time) or as part of a full group running older content, and opportunities for the latter are few and far between. With another update raising the level cap to 80 (especially if they added another mount as a reward for doing the 70 + 80 savage content, like they did with the 50+60 savage raids) we'd absolutely see a return wave of BLU groups.
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Mar 22, 2023 18:55
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It would suck rear end if they made blu a normal job. now it's a fun diversion and blu raiding is a really neat challenge to do with friends. much better that then a job I level and then barely touch
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Mar 22, 2023 19:21
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definitely feels like they took a step back from limited jobs as a concept since BLU hit. at the time I expected we'd get one in the middle of an expac as a sort of content pillar alongside updating previous ones, but they ain't even touched BLU since the 70 cap update. who knows what they're thinking.
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Mar 22, 2023 20:06
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there should be a yellow mage that casts piss and poo poo attacks
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Mar 22, 2023 20:10
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They're terrified of letting blu be a normal job because it's super easy to have one with the levels and gear to enter content but only have two buttons to use because the player never learned anything. This of course ignores the distressingly large number of people playing regular jobs at high level who never learned to push the buttons they have. And in the meantime they gave blu fun tricks that let completionists completely trivialize a lot of encounters, making it even harder to integrate them as a regular job without taking away the things people enjoy about blu. Maybe if they locked blu duty finder behind "you must know these specific spells to queue as tank/heal/DPS" in a similar way to how you need to have specific duties completed to run roulettes. I get the impression they're not eager to try that though.
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Mar 22, 2023 20:11
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Next step of the Relic will be locked behind the limited job Gambler.
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Mar 22, 2023 20:14
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You would need to gut far too many aspects of BLU to make it fair to un-limited it, they just won't do that at this stage. They might have decided that limited jobs were not a great idea, and they don't want to invest much more time in expanding the concept, but I seriously doubt they will roll back anything BLU related that already exists.
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Mar 22, 2023 20:16
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Thundarr posted:They're terrified of letting blu be a normal job because it's super easy to have one with the levels and gear to enter content but only have two buttons to use because the player never learned anything. This of course ignores the distressingly large number of people playing regular jobs at high level who never learned to push the buttons they have. And in the meantime they gave blu fun tricks that let completionists completely trivialize a lot of encounters, making it even harder to integrate them as a regular job without taking away the things people enjoy about blu. I personally love that BLU is a side activity and completely broken class. There are 19 "main" combat classes already. To me, adding one or two more isn't going to do much to change up how I play the game as regular classes all have to be fairly balanced and competitive against each other. My preferred route would be that they do something like add one core job and one limited job every expansion. I feel like if you don't add core jobs, then there's going to be endless bitching. But adding more limited jobs would be a far far more exciting prospect for me because it allows them to create classes that are weird and experiment and broken. Eventually they could add a "limited job roulette" or something like that.
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Mar 22, 2023 20:16
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They absolutely could do a separate streamlined pvp moveset for BLU but yeah BLU is exactly where it should be other than not getting bumped to ShB content with a new ridiculous roe man to beat up in the arena.
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Mar 22, 2023 20:17
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Thundarr posted:They're terrified of letting blu be a normal job because it's super easy to have one with the levels and gear to enter content but only have two buttons to use because the player never learned anything. This of course ignores the distressingly large number of people playing regular jobs at high level who never learned to push the buttons they have. And in the meantime they gave blu fun tricks that let completionists completely trivialize a lot of encounters, making it even harder to integrate them as a regular job without taking away the things people enjoy about blu. I mean, they don't have to do this catch 'em all thing with blu. They could turn it into a regular job where you just get your skills. Always could have. They (or at least Yoshi P) doesn't want to do that but they could always change their mind. I hope they don't because I've really come around on blu and like it quite a bit. I have definitely been annoyed at how long it is taking to get new blu content, but then blu is one dude's side-thing. So if that dude has been busy elsewhere (most likely ultimate development, he'd done work on one of those) then he probably hasn't had time to do more blu stuff.
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Mar 22, 2023 20:21
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All jokes aside I do wonder what roles we're getting with 7.0 caster feels like a gimme, but the question for a second job is do we get another tank? another ranged dps? It probably won't be a melee or a healer since they don't repeat themselves. Or maybe this is finally the breaking point where we get one job an expansion.
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Mar 22, 2023 20:21
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Blockhouse posted:All jokes aside I do wonder what roles we're getting with 7.0 I think the odds of this being a one job expansion are very high
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Mar 22, 2023 20:24
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People are freaking out that they haven't touched BLU since 5.4, but they can only really touch it once per expansion at this point without breaking game balance - they are never going to let BLU be at the standard level cap for obvious reasons. It's really not the end of the world if the one BLU update for Endwalker is in the back half of the 6.x patch cycle The only other updates I can think of would be goofy stuff like letting them into Deep Dungeons, which seems like it'd be easy to add but it also wouldn't be THAT interesting so whatever
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Mar 22, 2023 20:29
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Thundarr posted:They're terrified of letting blu be a normal job because it's super easy to have one with the levels and gear to enter content but only have two buttons to use because the player never learned anything. This of course ignores the distressingly large number of people playing regular jobs at high level who never learned to push the buttons they have. And in the meantime they gave blu fun tricks that let completionists completely trivialize a lot of encounters, making it even harder to integrate them as a regular job without taking away the things people enjoy about blu. It's way less being worried about people not having abilities as it is that BLU is completely broken when compared to non-limited Jobs. How do you balance BLU's Moon Flute > Self-Destruct or Ram's Voice > Ultravibration against BLM's AoE without completely removing the the whole point BLU exists? Even outside of self-KOs and AoE one-shots, it'd be an incredible nightmare to balance all 104 current BLU spells against other Jobs. They'd have to basically turn BLU into the only flex role, where you'd choose Tank, DPS or Healer and then you get a very rigid set of spells for each one in order to make non-limited BLU work.
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Mar 22, 2023 20:32
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IMO keeping BLU as a limited job is good because it lets them do cool things with it without having to worry about pesky things like balance. The problem with BLU is that it's the only limited job--SMN should've been one as well, but maybe we'll get something cool like the FFTA job Beastmaster.
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Mar 22, 2023 20:35
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Look I'm not asking for a lot here, just let me shoot missiles at Sad Hitler.
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Mar 22, 2023 20:37
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There are so many things you could do with limited jobs that wouldn't work as well with standard jobs: Beastmaster Puppetmaster Gambler Chemist Mime (might be too close to BLU) Necromancer Mascot Songstress Calculator Basically any class with uncontrollable/random elements to it. Astrologian initially had a lot of RNG and it it didn't work and they've ever been moving further away from having core jobs have random elements. That should be the bread and butter of limited classes.
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Mar 22, 2023 20:39
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Saint Freak posted:Next step of the Relic will be locked behind the limited job Gambler. I will only accept Gambler if they find a way to integrate the mini and jumbo cactpots into the moveset
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Mar 22, 2023 20:39
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If anything im mad BLU isn't MORE busted than it is. The spells are mostly very safe "do Damage, but this time its fire and a cone instead of water and a line". IMO blu is really carried by the carnivale rather than its spells, and getting no updates on that front is disappointing
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Mar 22, 2023 20:48
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Help Im Alive posted:I will only accept Gambler if they find a way to integrate the mini and jumbo cactpots into the moveset MGP Toss. One-shot anything after sufficient Gold Saucer time. More recent Savage bosses may take some grinding.
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Mar 22, 2023 20:48
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I think if I could push forward one idea for BLU is that it be allowed to reach the current cap on the x.58 patch. Let the job stretch its legs into current content when it's the least able to meaningfully affect balance in a way people care about. Weekly savage lockouts are excised, capped tomestones are doubled, let people run wild with it for a bit. If I could get a bit more I'd have new carnivale stages roll in somewhere each patch. I get why we don't, though. Despite recycling a whole expansion of content every BLU update needs its own pass on balance, new spells tested, whatever etc. in the same way something like Bozja or Criterion needs to be balanced. I don't know if I'd hold on to the Fanfest Promise that limited jobs would open the door for more unique playstyles to come in to the game because of how the job's focus has shifted from a soloing toy to something you group up and tick off achievements for.
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Mar 22, 2023 21:07
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Help Im Alive posted:I will only accept Gambler if they find a way to integrate the mini and jumbo cactpots into the moveset
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Mar 22, 2023 21:20
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Once again I'd like to float the idea of a Witch job throwing pumpkin bombs and poo poo No Final Fantasy basis whatsoever but yoship said he's cool with that!
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Mar 22, 2023 21:40
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Its going to be revealed in 7.0 that Krile has been the tease for a new job all this time, Nekomancer
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Mar 22, 2023 21:45
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TheWorldsaStage posted:Once again I'd like to float the idea of a Witch job throwing pumpkin bombs and poo poo Green Goblin does sound like a dope job, let's get this going
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Mar 22, 2023 21:50
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Countblanc posted:Its going to be revealed in 7.0 that Krile has been the tease for a new job all this time, Nekomancer It's gonna be called Catmancer again and I'm gonna be very upset
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Mar 22, 2023 21:55
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TheWorldsaStage posted:Once again I'd like to float the idea of a Witch job throwing pumpkin bombs and poo poo Looking forward to unlocking the pumpkin bomb witch by selling a bunch of random poo poo at shops that are only available on a schedule that makes big fishing look reasonable.
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Mar 22, 2023 22:09
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Yoship mentioned in some interview or dev diary that they're running out of jobs they can port in from older games, so things will probably be unique from here out. Which means we need to think about the weapons we haven't seen. Just in my experience, we might be in for: -whips, -staves (combat sticks, not mage rods) -hammers/maces (new NPC uses a hammer, 🤔) -nunchaku (possibly folded into whips, depending on implementation) -measures (possibly linked to geomancy and the custom weapon the geomancer in StB's AST line uses) -or something completely new and out of left field, I never would have guessed "portable orrery" or "bit system"
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Mar 22, 2023 22:15
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You're missing the most important weapons used in earlier games - Handbags.
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Mar 22, 2023 22:16
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:You're missing the most important weapons used in earlier games - Handbags. And just a longass bolt of cloth.
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Mar 22, 2023 22:27
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Machinist 2, sniper rifles only. Now you have the donut AOEs
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Mar 22, 2023 22:30
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FuturePastNow posted:Why would anyone except hardcore raiders want to play a buff/debuff job? Raiders would be the least likely for a dedicated buff/debuff job to exist, because every single time without fail that one exists, their buffs are either too weak - in which case why bring them? - or they are too strong - in which they are mandatory. You can see this with the BRD/DNC vs MCH issues earlier in the expansion. Adding in anything strictly support-centric would be that same can of worms magnified to the nth degree. The only time it works is with very large group sizes (like, Warcraft sized at minimum), and even then you have the pressure of that someone needs to play the role even if no one in your team wants to. And I say this as someone who loves support roles in stuff like tabletop games, played an inordinate amount of Bard/Clown in RO, etc. Hard support jobs are a relic of old MMO design that really do not work in the modern day.
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Mar 22, 2023 22:34
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my only idea for a job that was any good was a staff-wielding tank based on sun wukong, where you have defensive abilities based on increasing levels of temporary immortality. Pretty hard to predict what'll happen, I don't think anyone before Endwalker predicted gundam funnels on a healer. That said if we're going to meracydia at some point and it's based on Australia we'll probably get a boomerang class.
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Mar 22, 2023 22:38
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Anyone been to a previous fanfest? Would be cool to get advice or tips or even just stories
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Mar 22, 2023 22:39
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Dareon posted:Yoship mentioned in some interview or dev diary that they're running out of jobs they can port in from older games, so things will probably be unique from here out. Which means we need to think about the weapons we haven't seen. There are not enough games where you can use a staff in melee but not also be a caster. City of Heroes had a Staff Melee powerset and it owned. I could see nunchaku, whips and three-sectioned staff weapons being folder together possibly.
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Mar 22, 2023 22:39
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Kyrosiris posted:Raiders would be the least likely for a dedicated buff/debuff job to exist, because every single time without fail that one exists, their buffs are either too weak - in which case why bring them? - or they are too strong - in which they are mandatory. Hell, you had that kind of debuff optimization earlier in the game's life as it was with slashing/piercing resistance and damage debuffs from jobs like WAR and BRD. The cost of having a design philosophy that encourages people to play what they want is necessarily that every job can't stray too far from the median, which means that playstyle differences are largely a matter of differences in execution over differences in mechanics. Hunter Noventa posted:There are not enough games where you can use a staff in melee but not also be a caster. City of Heroes had a Staff Melee powerset and it owned. true oldheads will remember DAoC's friar as the OG staff wielder, a class that's never been fully replicated since (although i'll give mistweaver a silver star for trying)
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Mar 22, 2023 22:41
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| # ? May 31, 2024 02:59 |
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I remember hearing somewhere that they nixed whips as a possible weapon due to issues with animating them. OTOH, maybe that was long enough ago that they've been able to figure out a good workaround since.Orcs and Ostriches posted:You're missing the most important weapons used in earlier games - Handbags.  Somebody needs to get on this and submit some as DNC weapons the next time SE opens up a weapon design contest.
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Mar 22, 2023 22:59
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