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(Thread IKs: weg, Toxic Mental)
 
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zone
Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/sternenko/status/1638554308659617797
Why are these morons still convinced that an amphibious assault will even happen?

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Dwesa
Jul 19, 2016

Maybe I'll go where I can see stars
on Russian ineffective demining

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1638658220955713539

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1638661428230987784

Dwesa fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Mar 22, 2023

HonorableTB
Dec 22, 2006
Russia's plans for Moldova get weirder!

https://kyivindependent.com/investi...moldova-by-2030

Kyiv Independent posted:

Investigation: Leaked document exposes Kremlin's 10-year plan to undermine Moldova

As Russia is waging war in Ukraine, it also seeks to increase its already strong influence in Moldova, a nation of 2.6 million people that borders Ukraine and the EU.

According to a leaked document obtained by an international consortium of media outlets, including the Kyiv Independent, Moscow is planning to gain vast control over the country by 2030.

A Western intelligence source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the Kremlin's Directorate for Cross-Border Cooperation had allegedly created the document, titled "Strategic goals of the Russian Federation in the Republic of Moldova," in 2021.

According to the document, Russia’s key goals are to ensure that Moldovan policymakers and society, in general, have a negative attitude toward NATO and that the country has a strong presence of pro-Russian influence groups in politics and the economy.

The document envisions Transnistria remaining a breakaway region with Russian troops still stationed there. Russian media should have a wide presence in Moldova, while the Russian language in the country must have an official status.

One of the so-called "realistic 10-year goals" is to "counter the attempts of external actors" – like neighboring Romania, other EU member states, or the U.S. – "to interfere in the internal affairs of Moldova, strengthen the influence of NATO, and weaken the positions of Russia."

As a counterweight, the document envisions Moldova’s deeper involvement in the Collective Security Treaty Organization, Moscow's version of NATO, and the Russian-led Eurasian Economic Union.

The article is quite long so I didn't copy all of it.

zone
Dec 6, 2016

And suppose the original mines get cleared then what? Did this guy forget that RAAM and zeroed in artillery is what's causing the majority of the grief for the poor saps attacking Vuhledar at the moment?

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

zone posted:

https://twitter.com/sternenko/status/1638554308659617797
Why are these morons still convinced that an amphibious assault will even happen?
Don't interrupt your enemy, etc.

I thought the mobiks were for cleaning the mines

Just Another Lurker
May 1, 2009

Mokotow posted:

Oh man, coming up on a year. I remember driving Pegleg to the border at night. It was still early-ish days, so the towns on the Polish-Ukrainian border were the last sources of light and as we drove to the Medyka crossing, beyond which there was just utter darkness. poo poo got real solem in that last stretch, esp. after a week of loving about in Warsaw. It was the middle of the night when we came into the Polish border office with bags of various gear and Leg’s, well, peg leg, to the bemusment of the lone Polish border guard inside. Old Leg got in, bounced around and came out a few weeks later and there’s at least a few dozen UA army guys that benefited directly from him being there.

You were running all over the place at the time, your posting & Edgar Alan Hoes back then made it real to me back then. :tipshat:

CSM
Jan 29, 2014

56th Motorized Infantry 'Mariupol' Brigade
Seh' die Welt in Trummern liegen
Ukraine has gotten t55's as well (although probably much better upgraded).

A tank is still a tank even if its ancient, it needs to be dealt with.

The good news is that more modern stockpiles of tanks might be running out.

Drone_Fragger
May 9, 2007


For reference as to "how many Abram's does the USA actually have", congress repeatedly orders them more tanks (because of the tank factories variously located in congressmen's districts and hence pork barelling :hogwilde:), which the Army is repeatedly begging them not to buy, as they're having to spend more of their budget on maintaining and repairing tanks they didn't ask or want, in a depot in the middle of a desert. I literally think at this point they could give away like 1000 abrams and the us army would be happy about it because they could move several thousand support staff away from doing nothing.

Butterfly Valley
Apr 19, 2007

I am a spectacularly bad poster and everyone in the Schadenfreude thread hates my guts.
Aren't most of those gonna be the versions with the secret armour that aren't for sharing

Doctor Butts
May 21, 2002

The Marines are no longer going to use tanks. That may be where a lot of them come from.

Mokotow
Apr 16, 2012

Just Another Lurker posted:

You were running all over the place at the time, your posting & Edgar Alan Hoes back then made it real to me back then. :tipshat:

:blessed:

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Drone_Fragger posted:

For reference as to "how many Abram's does the USA actually have", congress repeatedly orders them more tanks (because of the tank factories variously located in congressmen's districts and hence pork barelling :hogwilde:), which the Army is repeatedly begging them not to buy, as they're having to spend more of their budget on maintaining and repairing tanks they didn't ask or want, in a depot in the middle of a desert. I literally think at this point they could give away like 1000 abrams and the us army would be happy about it because they could move several thousand support staff away from doing nothing.

There are... quite a few of them



Butterfly Valley posted:

Aren't most of those gonna be the versions with the secret armour that aren't for sharing

Yes but I'd bet you could've replace it with some cardboard in a year

zone
Dec 6, 2016

CSM posted:

Ukraine has gotten t55's as well (although probably much better upgraded).

A tank is still a tank even if its ancient, it needs to be dealt with.

The good news is that more modern stockpiles of tanks might be running out.

M-55s that Slovenia gave em, yep. Uparmored, better electronics, and thermal sights thrown in.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Drone_Fragger posted:

For reference as to "how many Abram's does the USA actually have", congress repeatedly orders them more tanks (because of the tank factories variously located in congressmen's districts and hence pork barelling :hogwilde:), which the Army is repeatedly begging them not to buy, as they're having to spend more of their budget on maintaining and repairing tanks they didn't ask or want, in a depot in the middle of a desert. I literally think at this point they could give away like 1000 abrams and the us army would be happy about it because they could move several thousand support staff away from doing nothing.

Though this war has proven that actively maintaining the capability to make new military vehicles is actually still important.

ZogrimAteMyHamster
Dec 8, 2015

zone posted:

M-55s that Slovenia gave em, yep. Uparmored, better electronics, and thermal sights thrown in.

Upgunned too, from that lovely 100mm D-10 to a shiny 105mm L7.

Karate Bastard
Jul 31, 2007

Soiled Meat

Der Kyhe posted:

If it comes to relatively static dug in front-lines akin to WW1, and WW2 in some places, improvised catapults and slings for throwing hand grenades over the no-mans land will surely make a comeback.

EDIT:


here is an example from the FDF during WW2.

Angry Blyats.

zone
Dec 6, 2016

Karate Bastard posted:

Angry Blyats.

This would work, as long as you used the vatnik caricature/variations to stand in for the angry birds themselves.

Woolie Wool
Jun 2, 2006


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-opSlCGLGQ4
LazerPig dropped a video on the T-14 that says such an obvious and stupid lie about Russian engines that it casts his credibility on basically anything into question. He decides to poo poo on the Soviet/Russian V series of tank engines, which in itself would be fine since they have a much larger displacement yet less power than NATO tank engines. However, the already embarrassing reality that Russian engines make 30-50% less power than the modern MTU V12 engines (750-1130 horsepower vs. about 1500) from 40% more displacement (~39 liters vs. ~27 liters) is apparently not good enough for him, he then claims that a Russian V-series engine's torque output is comparable to that of a Honda Jazz, a statement I had to look into.

The 38.8-liter V-2 V12 engine that propelled the T-34--mind you, this was an engine that first ran in 1937--made around 1,600 lb. ft. of torque, which is a figure very similar to that of the British and German tank engines of WWII. Meanwhile, the Honda Jazz's diesel option was the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_N_engine, a 1.5 liter inline four (you might see a problem here) produced...wait for it...148 lb. ft. of torque. Then he goes on to say, while showing video footage of a new Ford Ranger, that you could go into an American dealer and buy a pickup truck with a better engine than the T-14's. So I looked up the Ranger and it's got a 2.3 liter four making...310 lb. ft. of torque.

But let's be generous, let's assume he meant the most extravagant brodozer that a hundred thousand dollars can buy. The Ford F-350 can be optioned with a monster 6.7 liter diesel producing 1,050 lb. ft. of torque. Now that's pretty weak by modern tank standards (the MTU 883 in the latest generation Merkava makes around 3,300 lb. ft.) but at least in the cheap seats of the same ballpark as serious WWII tank engines like the V-2 and Rolls-Royce Meteor. But ah, the Meteor is a naturally-aspirated lazy 27-liter lump (and the V-2 even bigger and lazier than that) while the Power Stroke engine has to be turbocharged up the rear end to make that much torque, and thus has less room to be overloaded. The GCWR (the maximum weight it can move around including the truck itself and the heaviest possible trailer) of a 6.7 liter diesel F-350 is 30,000 lbs. or about 13.6 metric tons. A Panzer III, on the small end of WWII tanks, is about 23 metric tons and used a smaller, weaker engine than mid/late-war German tanks.

And the worst part is this hilariously absurd pants-on-fire lie about Russian engines was completely unnecessary considering the fact that the T-14 is dependent on Western electronic systems that Russia cannot make, has no realistic pathway to being able to make, and after deciding to invade Ukraine, cannot buy, and thus the T-14 is vaporware no matter what engine it has. And if he's willing to tell this whopper that is so blatantly false and so blatantly stupid, what else has he lied about?

DiomedesGodshill
Feb 21, 2009

zone posted:

https://twitter.com/sternenko/status/1638554308659617797
Why are these morons still convinced that an amphibious assault will even happen?

Gotta find a way to skim/steal while you still can! The construction outfit probably a subsidiary of Big Suka Sukhoi.

thunderspanks
Nov 5, 2003

crucify this



I'm not watching an hour long video but I'm gonna throw this out there anyway: are you sure you understand comedy

Woolie Wool
Jun 2, 2006


thunderspanks posted:

I'm not watching an hour long video but I'm gonna throw this out there anyway: are you sure you understand comedy

You can make a joke without telling dumbass lies that can be debunked in five minutes of googling, especially if you're (like LazerPig) cited as an authority by NATO/Ukraine supporters when arguing against RUSSIA STRONK vatniks. This plays directly into the hands of vatniks screaming about the ebil wect and it was completely unnecessary since, again, there are a lot of real-life, actually-existing reasons why the T-14 is a boondoggle that will accomplish nothing and you could make jokes about those failings and they would be all the funnier because you wouldn't have to tell a lie to make the jokes.

E: Putin should call LazerPig up and ask him how much hard currency he demands in order to defect because if he can say poo poo like this and people still defend him he's a hell of a propaganda asset.

Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Mar 23, 2023

Burns
May 10, 2008

LazerPig is not an authority on anything as far as i know. In the meaning of professional expertise that is.

Also the Russians totally want tech transfer from China which theyll likely get or are already receiving. If the Armata ever takes the field it will be full of Chinese tech.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
I don't know LazerPig and not watching a video. But Perun also sometimes makes jokes in the videos, it's fine. You're not supposed to use youtube randos as authorities on anything.

Karma Comedian
Feb 2, 2012

I felt like that was obvious comedic hyperbole

tiaz
Jul 1, 2004

PICK UP THAT PRESENT.


Zelensky's Zealots

Woolie Wool posted:

You can make a joke without telling dumbass lies that can be debunked in five minutes of googling, especially if you're (like LazerPig) cited as an authority by NATO/Ukraine supporters when arguing against RUSSIA STRONK vatniks. This plays directly into the hands of vatniks screaming about the ebil wect and it was completely unnecessary since, again, there are a lot of real-life, actually-existing reasons why the T-14 is a boondoggle that will accomplish nothing and you could make jokes about those failings and they would be all the funnier because you wouldn't have to tell a lie to make the jokes.

E: Putin should call LazerPig up and ask him how much hard currency he demands in order to defect because if he can say poo poo like this and people still defend him he's a hell of a propaganda asset.

yeah, he's hyperbolic sometimes but also just ... plainly wrong sometimes. I do wish he was more careful in that regard but I guess at the end of the day the man's not an encyclopedia and making it entertaining takes precedence.
I wonder how he came up with that comparison - like, did he actually just straight-up deliberately fabricate a lie, or get some math wrong, or what? the former is unacceptable, the latter is ... I don't like recommending sources with a "well, keep your wits about you" caveat, but I have appreciated the perspective he's brought sometimes.

e:

Karma Comedian posted:

I felt like that was obvious comedic hyperbole

fine I'll watch the video before commenting further :negative:

Drone_Fragger
May 9, 2007


I'm assuming he means power:weight ratio on the whole jazz comparison. a jazz has 4 times the power per unit weight that a tank would have, but that's also kind of expected - It's not an armoured cube. Unless you live in Birmingham, in which case you pad the thing with phone books to stop stray bullets hitting you.

zone
Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1638662003416866816
It seems some vatniks have begun waking up. RIA Novosti published a cope article today about how T-62 was better than weak westoid tanks. This one dude whose comment got translated here finally gets it, that once the big soviet hoard is gone, Russia is helpless.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

zone posted:

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1638662003416866816
It seems some vatniks have begun waking up. RIA Novosti published a cope article today about how T-62 was better than weak westoid tanks. This one dude whose comment got translated here finally gets it, that once the big soviet hoard is gone, Russia is helpless.


Uh-oh, looks like someone's disrespecting the armed forces!

E: though to be fair, some of the tanks are Leo1s with no armor so maybe they're not wrong until the M1A3s show up.

zone
Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1638686918668853248
What a surprise!

Drone_Fragger
May 9, 2007


mobby_6kl posted:

Uh-oh, looks like someone's disrespecting the armed forces!

E: though to be fair, some of the tanks are Leo1s with no armor so maybe they're not wrong until the M1A3s show up.

It's the optics. If your tank blows up 1000 metres before you can even see the enemy tank then it doesn't matter if the enemy tank didn't have armour on.

Barudak
May 7, 2007

I am, thankfully, not an expert on war or warmaking, but my understanding is part of the reason Abrams were able to absolutely demolish Iraq's tanks in the field was that the Abrams could successfully engage from way, way further out than what Iraq could due to optics improvements among other things.

Woolie Wool
Jun 2, 2006


Karma Comedian posted:

I felt like that was obvious comedic hyperbole

Considering that it came right after some more or less accurate information about the Russian V series tank engines (though the fact that it technically descended from an engine from 1937 doesn't mean a whole lot--just look at the GM LS/LT V8s that are "descended from" the 1950s Chevrolet small block but are thoroughly modern engines used in thoroughly modern cars, with all-alloy construction, direct injection, loads of computers, shockingly good fuel economy for a 6.2 liter engine, etc.) it feels really, really jarring as an attempt at hyperbole.

ZogrimAteMyHamster
Dec 8, 2015

Drone_Fragger posted:

It's the optics. If your tank blows up 1000 metres before you can even see the enemy tank then it doesn't matter if the enemy tank didn't have armour on.

Yeah some poo poo-rear end T-62M isn't going to stand much of a chance against a Leopard 1A5 when it comes to who sees who first.

Goptiks vs Optics :buddy:

anonumos
Jul 14, 2005

Fuck it.

Drone_Fragger posted:

For reference as to "how many Abram's does the USA actually have", congress repeatedly orders them more tanks (because of the tank factories variously located in congressmen's districts and hence pork barelling :hogwilde:), which the Army is repeatedly begging them not to buy, as they're having to spend more of their budget on maintaining and repairing tanks they didn't ask or want, in a depot in the middle of a desert. I literally think at this point they could give away like 1000 abrams and the us army would be happy about it because they could move several thousand support staff away from doing nothing.

The last, like, 5 wars around the world have been a fire sale of stockpiled military hardware. The entire world is throwing old fireworks in a corner and lighting them up.

zone
Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1638618020229656576
Marge, it's not up to you or your dictator master to decide that, nor is it up to the CCCP fans in Ukraine willing to sell out to you. :frogout: of Ukraine or be thrown out.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Drone_Fragger posted:

For reference as to "how many Abram's does the USA actually have", congress repeatedly orders them more tanks (because of the tank factories variously located in congressmen's districts and hence pork barelling :hogwilde:), which the Army is repeatedly begging them not to buy
If I'm not completely misremembering, I believe Perun made a salient counterpoint in one of his videos. While ungodly expensive, keeping the factories up and down the supply chain churning helps ensure ability to quickly produce replacements. The know-how is there, the processes are in place, the integration points are tried and tested—hell, if the system is working right, efficiencies are actively being advanced. Contrast that with Germany or Russia's dysfunctional defense manufacturing, where rising to meet demand from a handful of artisanally-made tanks a year to a full-blown war footing would be a nightmare at best.

That's not to credit Congress too much as I imagine they're looking more at their campaign donations and the employment of their constituents than the hard numbers on production necessary to maintain a sufficient readiness level, but still.

Drone_Fragger
May 9, 2007


Cugel the Clever posted:

If I'm not completely misremembering, I believe Perun made a salient counterpoint in one of his videos. While ungodly expensive, keeping the factories up and down the supply chain churning helps ensure ability to quickly produce replacements. The know-how is there, the processes are in place, the integration points are tried and tested—hell, if the system is working right, efficiencies are actively being advanced. Contrast that with Germany or Russia's dysfunctional defense manufacturing, where rising to meet demand from a handful of artisanally-made tanks a year to a full-blown war footing would be a nightmare at best.

That's not to credit Congress too much as I imagine they're looking more at their campaign donations and the employment of their constituents than the hard numbers on production necessary to maintain a sufficient readiness level, but still.

Yeah agreed on that point. Having seen first hand how terrible tooling up things are and how easy it is to lose "institutional knowledge" of how the poo poo you're selling works, it's justified on that front. At the same time I think it's accidental, as you say, I imagine it's more general dynamics buying them lots of "nice dinners" among other things. the UK is learning this the hard way now since we "accidently" sold all our nuclear design capability to GE, who then closed it all up, so we now are having to rdevelop nuclear reactor tech from basically scratch for the navy. It's embarrassing honestly.

I would uh, disagree on efficiencies being made though. the MIC is kinda bad at that because they don't tend to actively have competition once they win. Why make your missile "better" when the government have already said they're going to buy them for the next ten years, and your engineers could be working on something else to bid on another contract. Production wise maybe, but design improvements stand no chance.

Viller
Jun 3, 2005

Proud opponent of Israeli terror and Jewish fascism!

Woolie Wool posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-opSlCGLGQ4
LazerPig dropped a video on the T-14 that says such an obvious and stupid lie about Russian engines that it casts his credibility on basically anything into question. He decides to poo poo on the Soviet/Russian V series of tank engines, which in itself would be fine since they have a much larger displacement yet less power than NATO tank engines. However, the already embarrassing reality that Russian engines make 30-50% less power than the modern MTU V12 engines (750-1130 horsepower vs. about 1500) from 40% more displacement (~39 liters vs. ~27 liters) is apparently not good enough for him, he then claims that a Russian V-series engine's torque output is comparable to that of a Honda Jazz, a statement I had to look into.

The 38.8-liter V-2 V12 engine that propelled the T-34--mind you, this was an engine that first ran in 1937--made around 1,600 lb. ft. of torque, which is a figure very similar to that of the British and German tank engines of WWII. Meanwhile, the Honda Jazz's diesel option was the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_N_engine, a 1.5 liter inline four (you might see a problem here) produced...wait for it...148 lb. ft. of torque. Then he goes on to say, while showing video footage of a new Ford Ranger, that you could go into an American dealer and buy a pickup truck with a better engine than the T-14's. So I looked up the Ranger and it's got a 2.3 liter four making...310 lb. ft. of torque.

But let's be generous, let's assume he meant the most extravagant brodozer that a hundred thousand dollars can buy. The Ford F-350 can be optioned with a monster 6.7 liter diesel producing 1,050 lb. ft. of torque. Now that's pretty weak by modern tank standards (the MTU 883 in the latest generation Merkava makes around 3,300 lb. ft.) but at least in the cheap seats of the same ballpark as serious WWII tank engines like the V-2 and Rolls-Royce Meteor. But ah, the Meteor is a naturally-aspirated lazy 27-liter lump (and the V-2 even bigger and lazier than that) while the Power Stroke engine has to be turbocharged up the rear end to make that much torque, and thus has less room to be overloaded. The GCWR (the maximum weight it can move around including the truck itself and the heaviest possible trailer) of a 6.7 liter diesel F-350 is 30,000 lbs. or about 13.6 metric tons. A Panzer III, on the small end of WWII tanks, is about 23 metric tons and used a smaller, weaker engine than mid/late-war German tanks.

And the worst part is this hilariously absurd pants-on-fire lie about Russian engines was completely unnecessary considering the fact that the T-14 is dependent on Western electronic systems that Russia cannot make, has no realistic pathway to being able to make, and after deciding to invade Ukraine, cannot buy, and thus the T-14 is vaporware no matter what engine it has. And if he's willing to tell this whopper that is so blatantly false and so blatantly stupid, what else has he lied about?

Hes not saying any of that as fact, its a loving joke... You cant be serious right?

Viller fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Mar 23, 2023

Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
ASK ME ABOUT HOW HUMAN LIVES THAT MADE VIDEO GAME CONTROLLERS ARE WORTH MORE
Lipstick Apathy

Viller posted:

Hes not saying of that as fact, its a loving joke... You cant be serious right?

Maybe they should go post about it on War Thunder forums

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Drone_Fragger
May 9, 2007


Zero VGS posted:

Maybe they should go post about it on War Thunder forums

If war thunder gave the armata the worst stats in the game, its a matter of when, not if, the specs get leaked by a tanker to prove GLORIOUS ARMATA NO1 IN WORLD CRUSHES DECADENT NATO TANKS LIKE THE TOYS THEY ARE (FOR CHILDREN TO PLAY WITH IN CRIB AT BED TIME)

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