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I don’t think the slog matters now that all the books are out. It definitely sucked when you had to wait for the books though.
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Feb 21, 2023 02:24
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OneSizeFitsAll posted:Yeah I didn't think it seemed a necessarily widespread term, albeit clearly also not specific to Jordan. Interesting, thanks. And ta, pik_d. New Spring is also really fun because you can see a little bit of Egwene and Elayne in younger hotter-headed Moiraine. That might be intentional or it might just be how RJ writes younger women, still very cool though. mercenarynuker posted:I honestly never noticed a slog, personally. I plowed through every book within a two month span (because I am, most likely, an odd person). As for sick up, I don't know if I was exposed to it way back when I first tried reading the series back when I was a kid, and it was intuitive enough what it meant that I just rationalized it as normal, or if it is something I have actually absorbed through other media as well. Maybe both! The Gathering Storm spoilers: I don't know, a lot of the difference is because she's no longer hanging out with Elayne, and the whiplash from that to the Wise Ones trying to get her to realize she's their equal really fucks her up for a few weeks. She's overcorrecting from what had become her norm, but I think after Rhuidean she'll come back to center. She's focused on her honor because she's looking at the punishments the wrong way. If she returns from Rhuidean and stays the same then yeah maybe there's some weirdness with the character going on. Personally I have hope that Aviendha realizing Min helped her sort out this Wise One business is an opening for them forming a relationship.
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Feb 21, 2023 02:39
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The Great Hunt: Chapter 23 Hot drat, this was a good one. Really didn't care about Nynaeve as much as the other main characters up to this point, but this chapter absolutely turned me around. Her marriage to Lan being the final test  The Great Hunt is way better than The Eye of the World so far.
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Feb 21, 2023 16:16
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81sidewinder posted:The Great Hunt: Chapter 23 Hot drat, this was a good one. Really didn't care about Nynaeve as much as the other main characters up to this point, but this chapter absolutely turned me around. Her marriage to Lan being the final test Note (this isn't a spoiler for where you are, it is stated) That this is explicitly the easier of the tests Aes Sedai have to go through, and it is that brutal
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Feb 21, 2023 19:34
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The Gathering Storm, up to chapter 39 Verin was a real one, #1 Brown Ajah sister. Absolute boss of a triple agent. ~200 Black Ajah is a loving lot though, that's roughly 20% of the raised Aes Sedai are Black. Oh and Rand is literally ripping the fabric of space and time apart to kill one Forsaken who has literally accomplished uh... the destabilization of Arad Doman, and Shara which we've literally never seen or been to. Looks like next chapter is the Seanchan attack on the Tower, this book owns so hard.
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Feb 22, 2023 23:45
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pik_d posted:The Gathering Storm, up to chapter 39 It does rule a lot. And it also has some really good chapter titles. "A Promise to Lews Therin", "A Conversation with the Dragon" (aka Lews Therin), "A Force of Light" the chapter title coupled with Rand's mental state immediately set alarm bells ringing when I first read it, and for good reason...), or "A Visit from Verin Sedai" (what an unassuming title for this banger of a chapter!). All those chapter titles evoke a lot of strong feelings in me. And this is just one small reason why the book rules.
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Feb 23, 2023 02:20
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Torrannor posted:It does rule a lot. And it also has some really good chapter titles. "A Promise to Lews Therin", "A Conversation with the Dragon" (aka Lews Therin), "A Force of Light" the chapter title coupled with Rand's mental state immediately set alarm bells ringing when I first read it, and for good reason...), or "A Visit from Verin Sedai" (what an unassuming title for this banger of a chapter!). All those chapter titles evoke a lot of strong feelings in me. And this is just one small reason why the book rules. Still Gathering Storm spoilers Then there's "The Death of Tuon" which is telegraphed so hard that it's about a name change. Mat repeats the whole Egeanin/Lielwin shortly before that chapter. Also it's way too early to kill Tuon, her arc is far from over.
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Feb 23, 2023 02:23
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The Great Hunt: Chapter 37. This one is another banger. All the alternate lives that the characters lived, so cool to get a glimpse of these different paths they could have taken. Have a feeling I'll need to check back on this chapter as the books go on. 'I have won again, Lews Therin' is such a sick catchphrase for the Dark One.
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Feb 23, 2023 20:26
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The Great Hunt: Chapter 47. Holy poo poo this book is good 'You always choose women that cause you trouble, Lews Therin' 
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Feb 24, 2023 23:05
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81sidewinder posted:The Great Hunt: Chapter 37. This one is another banger. All the alternate lives that the characters lived, so cool to get a glimpse of these different paths they could have taken. Have a feeling I'll need to check back on this chapter as the books go on. 'I have won again, Lews Therin' is such a sick catchphrase for the Dark One. Flicker Flicker is an iconic chapter, really makes you wonder what the others saw. 81sidewinder posted:The Great Hunt: Chapter 47. Holy poo poo this book is good 'You always choose women that cause you trouble, Lews Therin' I can't say I'm surprised you blasted through that part of the book, having to question Egwene's livelihood there is chilling. 10+ chapters in a day is a lot though!
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Feb 25, 2023 02:56
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Did the last quarter of the book in like 60 hours, haha. It was intense. I haven't stayed up that late with a book for a while. I bounce between the audiobook and my paperback. Had to listen to the best chapters again on the commute after reading them at night. Have to diver right into book three, but can't really keep up this pace. The Rosamond Pike versions of the first two books are excellent, btw.Will definitely be getting book three later this year for my eventual re-read.
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Feb 25, 2023 04:00
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Knife of Dreams Ch24 Honey in the Tea - my god, Egwene is owning so hard. Chapter ruled. Can't wait to see how this plays out.
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Feb 26, 2023 04:03
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I've finished The Gathering Storm, only two books left  Egwene was such a loving boss for this book, but especially in the last dozen chapters. From leading the novices into circles, to taking command even among Aes Sedai, to killing dozens of Black Ajah, to being an artillery cannon on the side of the Tower shooting down Seanchan. She owned so hard. Meanwhile Perrin is... thinking about doing something and looking at wagons? Dude needs a plot again. At least he uh... well. At least people know that Morgase is alive and not murdered by Rand! Perrin didn't do that though. Elayne had the decency to just skip this book after her last plot wrapped up. I'm glad Rand was able to have some introspection finally. He's been so warped by the Dark One's touch and the weird merger with Moridin. It's great that Lews/Rand finally figured out that rebirth is a second chance rather than just a time to mourn what was. Someone tell Moridin since he's the nihilism king. Destroying the Choedan Kal also forces Rand to rely on others again, especially with Callandor's weird little trick of requiring a circle with two women. Going forward, Taim's Black Tower and all the Black Ajah who escaped are going to be quite the problem to deal with, especially if they team up. I really hope that Mat, Thom, and Noal rescue Moiraine this book. I'm assuming the Towers of Midnight is just another name for the Tower(s) of Ghenjei so there's a good chance of that. I also hope that Rand does actually get more chill, removes Cadsuane's exile, and is generally less scary to his supposed allies.
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Feb 26, 2023 20:13
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pik_d posted:I've finished The Gathering Storm, only two books left I'm super excited for you to get in to the next book, Rand's pov especially is just a treat to read following TGS.
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Feb 26, 2023 23:56
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pik_d posted:Egwene was such a loving boss for this book, but especially in the last dozen chapters. From leading the novices into circles, to taking command even among Aes Sedai, to killing dozens of Black Ajah, to being an artillery cannon on the side of the Tower shooting down Seanchan. She owned so hard. I had the same reaction as you. Her ascent to being a major badass (and what she continues to do afterward) was the thing that I found the most thrilling out of maybe everything in the whole series. I don't think I'm really spoiling anything here, but one might disagree, so make your own decisions: A lot of people on this board consider her to be a really flawed character, though, and think that her actions (particularly as Amyrlin), plans, and inner thoughts reveal a real autocratic/despotic bent. That absolutely never occurred to me since I was just enjoying seeing her vaporize sul'dams and put squabbling and condescending Aes Sedai in their place, but in retrospect I can see how that iron will, scorched-earth approach is probably a common one in dictators. It's just easier to overlook when you think the person doing it is in the right. Anyway, she rules, and if you liked TGS you'll like the last two books too.
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Feb 28, 2023 22:01
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I've also just finished The Gathering Storm and wow. I really enjoyed Knife of Dreams a great deal, but with The Gathering Storm I was almost glad I had flu all this week and was home in bed, as it meant I could greedily devour the plot unhampered and uninterrupted during the daytime! Referring back to my comment just below on Egwene in Knife of Dreams, and to the three comments right above this one, it could not have played out better. This was Egwene's book, and she was magnificent. I absolutely adored every moment reading about her and the multiple ways she has become a total righteous badass. She's shown resilience, skill, strength, cunning, humility, bravery, wisdom, and an unswerving devotion to the good of the White Tower. She IS the Amyrlin Seat in every way. How she will now deal with Rand fascinates me. She obviously disapproves of various of his actions. She is loving awesome, but I can still see her dealing with non-Aes Sedai with typical Aes Sedai arrogance. Will she work with Rand, try and co-erce him, manipulate him? Perrin kind of treading water again, but I guess he'll find his place again over the next couple of books. He knows Rand needs him and feels that ta'veren pull. I think I missed the bit where Morgase revealed who she was, unless it did happen "off-camera" as it seems to have? Mat's chops as a general will presumably figure into the Last Battle, as will Aludra's dragons. But I'm very interested how his relationship with Tuon/Fortuona will also. Although their bond has grown, and even seems to still be growing in some ways now they're apart; yet they are very different in many ways, and of course right now are on different sides. How can any non-Seanchan swallow Tuon's awful stance on the damane? How can any Seanchan, for that matter? The whole conquering thing is also a slight problem, but at least the Seanchan are doing that based on their prophecies, as frustrating as it is for Rand at the moment. Also on Mat, I really like the way Sanderson writes him, and his relationship with his men, particularly Talmanes. Had me chuckling out loud a number of times. Rand destroying the Choedan Kal was a lovely moment (likewise Egwene and Silviana enjoying the visual after effects). Exactly what Cadusane, Min, Nynaeve etc wanted. I hope he has a chance to show them this change before they take some kind of desperate measures against him. I suspect so, as the plot has generally avoided the kind of frustrating misunderstanding/mistiming plot devices that always frustrate me. A thought/semi-prediction on Callandor: when Rand first mused on using requiring "submitting to the will of a woman" my immediate thought was that it had something to do with the Seanchan prophecy that he must bow before the Crystal Throne before the Last Battle. That one is still hard to place - like, why would that be necessary, and can I really see Rand doing that? Even now he is apparently a bit more human again in his emotions. But then I was reminded that it was about being in a circle with two women. Still, there have been hints dropped that Tuon can channel. And Min has said that there is more to it than just the circle thing, though she doesn't know what, yet. And the book ends with another fragment of the Essanik Cycle, i.e. the Seanchan prophecies, which I don't know the meaning of, but clearly those prophecies must play a role along with the Karaethon Cycle - presumably, they are both, along with the Aiel, Sea Folk etc prophecies, fragements of a whole. So I'm not throwing away my Callandor/Tuon theory yet, though I've no real idea, which is exciting. I can't wait to read the last two books. The excitement factor at this stage is enormous. OneSizeFitsAll fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Mar 5, 2023 |
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Mar 5, 2023 13:44
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OneSizeFitsAll posted:I've also just finished The Gathering Storm and wow. I really enjoyed Knife of Dreams a great deal, but with The Gathering Storm I was almost glad I had flu all this week and was home in bed, as it meant I could greedily devour the plot unhampered and uninterrupted during the daytime! Gathering Storm spoilers: Morgase has not revealed who she is. Just that she went to the White Tower and has the tiniest bit of channeling ability. It's interesting that you liked Sanderson's Mat. Because one of the biggest criticisms from WoT fans against Sanderson was that he didn't get Mat right in at least The Gathering Storm. I agree that Egwene totally ruled this book, it was just such a joy to read. One big thing though: "I suspect so, as the plot has generally avoided the kind of frustrating misunderstanding/mistiming plot devices that always frustrate me." I don't think I can agree with this sentence. WoT is full of examples of a lack of communication hindering Team Good. Although apart from like two instances, it didn't feel frustrating to me, so maybe your qualifier makes the difference.
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Mar 5, 2023 14:03
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Torrannor posted:Gathering Storm spoilers: Morgase has not revealed who she is. Just that she went to the White Tower and has the tiniest bit of channeling ability. In Rand's conversation with Tam in Tear, Tam mentions Perrin's balancing act including "the queen", "Elayne's mother", and that "she says she's not queen anymore". Rand notes that she lives, then, and says he will get a report from Perrin on the matter. quote:It's interesting that you liked Sanderson's Mat. Because one of the biggest criticisms from WoT fans against Sanderson was that he didn't get Mat right in at least The Gathering Storm. Well, maybe you can pick apart some inconsistencies, but he's entertaining, anyway. quote:One big thing though: "I suspect so, as the plot has generally avoided the kind of frustrating misunderstanding/mistiming plot devices that always frustrate me." I don't think I can agree with this sentence. WoT is full of examples of a lack of communication hindering Team Good. Although apart from like two instances, it didn't feel frustrating to me, so maybe your qualifier makes the difference. Yeah, like all the rumours and misassumptions about Rand, for one. You're right - there are tons of examples of misunderstanding. Hell, Gawyn is still out for his blood. I mispoke - I guess I meant more the mistiming part than misunderstanding. Like, for example I was concerned that after Egwene was removed from the Tower by Gawyn and co just when she wanted to help with the rebuilding and cement her status further, it might have genuinely affected the work she'd done, or that the Tower sitters resolving to raise Egwene as Amyrlin would be undone by her attacking the Tower, but instead she waits, and the delegation comes out. There have been a few times in the series where I was worried something like that would happen, as a cheap plot device, and it didn't. The stuff about people believing rumours about Rand, Aes Sedai miscommunication, doesn't feel cheap to me, so much as realistic. OneSizeFitsAll fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Mar 5, 2023 |
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Mar 5, 2023 14:25
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OneSizeFitsAll posted:In Rand's conversation with Tam in Tear, Tam mentions Perrin's balancing act including "the queen", "Elayne's mother", and that "she says she's not queen anymore". Rand notes that she lives, then, and says he will get a report from Perrin on the matter. Well, you already picked up on it, so it's technically not a spoiler anymore, but Tam learns that Maighdin is Morgase the same time Perrin learns it... which is in the next book, Towers of Midnight, from Perrin's perspective. TGS and ToM has a bit of a hosed up timeline.
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Mar 6, 2023 00:58
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^Gotcha. A few chapters into ToM now, and seen a bit of this already. Looks like Graendal isn't quite gone, though at least Rand nailed another of the Forsaken instead, albeit a less effective one. I forgot to comment on Rand in The Gathering Storm channeling the True Power. That was a bit of a moment. My heart rate was high during that scene, with Rand being almost forced to kill Min - it was hard to see how that was going to be avoided, given he was wearing the a'dam and the room was warded for sound. Dunno if this ability is somehow due to this apparent link with Moridin, or whether it's a thing that he can do due to being the Dragon Reborn, though there's never been any indication that Lews Therin could do it. Rand is hopefully going to go one better than him this time round, but who knows whether this has anything to do with it. I'm guessing not, as presumably not much good can come of channeling power originating from the Dark One himself, especially now Rand has gone all well-adjusted and zen. But, in the scene I've just read on ToM, where after Rand leaves his audience with Egwene and the sitters, and she suspects he could have broken the shields on him if he wanted to, I have to wonder. Previously, despite his power, Rand was vulnerable to shielding from a full circle, and here there were two. He's destroyed the Choedan Kal, so, assuming Egwene is correct (she may have just been thrown by his chilled out confidence I guess), how would he have been able to break free, if not with the True Power? Unless maybe becoming zen has unlocked further potency with the One Power. Was great to see Semirhage's shock when it happened, anyway. If anyone deserved to be balefired... ... On Rand in general: I've really enjoyed his characterisation over the series. He could have been a fairly boring chosen one cypher, but he's felt like a real person throughout, with his initial reaction to discovering who he is, then him accepting it and doing the best he could, but still following a rocky road. He's made a pretty good fist of it overall, trying to see the big picture, making some good strategic and political decisions, but despite being pretty competent and smart, he is headstrong, temperamental, makes blunders and frequently has to learn to adjust his behaviour towards those on his side. Though he has mitigating factors. I mean, aside from the small matter of fronting up to his destiny, with the small pressure of saving the world, and believing it will be the death of him... aside from that, all this time he's also had to deal with the taint on Saidin, two awful and never-healing wounds, with Forsaken and Darkfriends constantly trying to kill him, various false rumours about him doing awful poo poo, three different women in love with him and apparently wanting to share him, him loving all three back, people trying to manipulate him, Tower Aes Sedai kidnapping him, confining him to a box and beating him, Seanchan, people (including women, which bothers, or has bothered him even more) dying in his name... even now, few people even believe he's actually cleansed the taint, and now he has people dying of starvation that he has to walk away from as he simply cannot help, the Seanchan still loving poo poo up and (though I don't the knows this part yet) expecting him to kneel to them... all while he knows the Last Battle is about to happen. It feels like a pretty realistic sketch of the psychological poo poo a chosen one might have to go through, as far is this sort of thing can be realistic, and Jordan has done a great job in making Rand feel relatable and human, while also special, and someone who will hopefully ultimately be capable of fulfilling his rather major destiny. Was delighted for him when he had his moment on top of Dragonmount. Hope he can carry his new sense of balance forward through Tarmon Gai'don. Talking about mistakes, though: in my opinion his biggest one is letting the issues with Taim and the Black Tower fester. They are going to be a real pain for him to deal with now, especially if bolstered by various Elaida-affiliated and/or black Ajah Aes Sedai. Based on the scene where Pevara and co go to discuss bonding Asha'man with Taim, and how full the hall is, It seems like Taim has a lot more Asha'man at his disposal than Rand does. OneSizeFitsAll fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Mar 6, 2023 |
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Mar 6, 2023 14:39
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The cool thing is that I know where all this is going, and am excited for you to get there. The last couple books had multiple moments where I literally yelled out loud for various reasons
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Mar 6, 2023 15:53
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Just finished The Dragon Reborn and need a break for a bit. Between second half of The Great Hunt and TDR, I have probably listened to or read 900 pages in like two weeks. Did Jordan decide midway through writing TDR that this wasn't going to be a trilogy anymore? Feels like we were building to the big moment, and it kind of punts it to the next book. The final chapter with Mat felt kind of meta like 'we sure have a long way to go, you thought this was over, lol' That said, I loved that Rand was barely in the book. Loved seeing all the other characters get fleshed out. Mat and Thom chapters were A+++
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Mar 7, 2023 23:19
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Towers of Midnight chapter 41 I probably should have made an update already but I keep not because so much is happening all the time. This book just continues to loving slap holy poo poo. Rand has been doing over time on fixing things. The imagery of him showing up and things just magically get better because he's seemingly figured out how to control has ta'verenness much in the same way Mat can control chance is even more Randus Christ than before. It is interesting though, he hasn't actually had any POVs. It's been Egwene talking to him, or Min, or Ituralde. We're seeing him through everyone else's eyes because I guess it's easier to not tell us everything that way? The Perrin plotline has actually finally become bearable again. I've dreaded reading his POVs for honestly like 5 books now. He's finally been doing poo poo in Tel'aran'rhiod (but RIP Hopper), I loved his quick interaction with Egwene. He showed up, told her it was dangerous as if she couldn't loving tell, then accidentally taught her that the power of being a dreamer is more important than channeling in Tel'aran'rhiod. Then left her to face a Forsaken. lol. lmao. Great friend 5/5. Egwene bossed it though, snapped Mesaana's mind like a twig. The dreamspike was a cool plot device too, and it seems like there's another one floating around. That'll come back. And Gawyn, that idiot is so loving stupid but he somehow had his "a stopped clock is sometimes right" moment. It is WILD that the "I only see in black and white and joined (and now lead) a cult" brother is by far the better of the two. The one thing that really gets me is that I expected Mat, Thom, and probably Noal to be on their way to help Moiraine out of the Tower of Ghenjei by this point. And it's absolutely hilarious that Aran'gar got absolutely punked by Graendal who played it off as "Uh but obviously that was the right thing to do Daddy Moridin, don't be mad!"
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Mar 8, 2023 01:07
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I've finished Towers of Midnight The GaladxBerelain ship is amazing, she will fix him. It also looks like the Whitecloaks are being absorbed into Perrin's army and hopefully that means they stop existing as a separate entity. Because gently caress the Whitecloaks. It was also nice that Morgase got back home and eventually got to see all her children, and Stupid Idiot Child finally got to realize how wrong he was about Rand killing his mother. Aviendha seeing her descendants in ruins though Rhuidean was wild. You want to believe that that can't be the future Rand leaves behind, but you can see it starting at the very end of the book. I was caught so off guard because I was reading her chapters thinking "She'll see nothing interesting in the glass columns and then return to Rand" and that almost did happen! But then she had a minor existential crisis and went back in and changed everything, can't wait to see how she convinces Rand to smack the Seanchan around to fix this. Speaking of the Seanchan, I want to imagine a world where they show up at the White Tower to attack them again and find a note "At Last Battle, will return if universe doesn't end" but this isn't a comedy so that won't happen. I fuckin hate that Boundless was Noam because it made Perrin realize that Noam didn't lose himself so Perrin has nothing to worry about SO HIS ENTIRE loving 13 BOOK ARC WAS DRAGGED OUT FOR NO loving REASON. gently caress. Rand only had a tiny little POV at the very end of this so @Gwaihir I guess I'll be seeing a lot of his POV in AMoL which checks out. At least we got a fair amount of Min and Cadsuane witnessing Rand's transformation from Randakin Skylwalker to Randus Christ. And finally Mat, Thom, and Jain go to the Tower of Ghenjei, and then are out in 3 chapters lmao. And only Mat could turn losing an eye into an upgrade. I'm glad Moiraine is back, I hope she can kick some rear end before the end of the books. On to the last book.
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Mar 12, 2023 03:01
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I just finished it too! Very satisfying book - did a great job of setting up all the pieces for the final end game. Perrin absorbing and taming the Whitecloaks was great. Could see what happened with Byar coming a mile off; Galad and then Bornhald's coming around was great stuff, as were all the bits with Morgase. Similarly Gawyn - I agree with pik_d in finding him pretty drat stupid, but at least he now realises his errors, and has settled into his role supporting Egwene. Who, along with Elayne, has displayed typical Aes Sedai arrogance in immediately assuming Rand's plan to destroy the seals is wrong. Like, this is what he's been focusing on all this time, you know he's found some balance and sanity... at least give the matter some thought, maybe hear him out, before opposing him so vehemently. The Tower of Ghenjei sequence was cool... if only Mat had realised he had the means of leaving earlier, Noam/Jain might have lived. His last stand and reveal was still a pretty cool element, though. I didn't cotton onto Moiraine and Thom - I must have missed some hints towards that. Curious how things progress with the Seanchan. Mat obviously loves Tuon, but she's a bit of a dick, let's face it. Her attacks on the White Tower, her support of blatant slavery, even finding damane being broken to be soothing. A lot of ground to cover there, especially in light of Aviendha's visions at Rhuidean. Good that we saw a bit more of the Black Tower. I'm guessing Taim has the other dreamspike, or is being manipulated by someone else who does. As I alluded to in an earlier post, they are a formidable problem to overcome in the last book. Verin risked a lot in assuming Mat would be so curious as to open her letter! Lots to cover in A Memory of Light - good that it's thick enough to beat a whale to death with, then. God knows what I'll do when I'm finished - maybe interact with my family or something? Onwards to Tarmon Gai'don! pik_d posted:I've finished Towers of Midnight Elayne: I have very good logical reasons and witnesses to suggest Rand didn't kill Morgase. Gawyn: I'm going to completely ignore this for now. Nice to see the Whitecloaks will do something actually worth a poo poo finally, fighting in the Last Battle, and under Perrin no less. quote:And finally Mat, Thom, and Jain go to the Tower of Ghenjei, and then are out in 3 chapters lmao. And only Mat could turn losing an eye into an upgrade. I'm glad Moiraine is back, I hope she can kick some rear end before the end of the books. What was the upgrade? OneSizeFitsAll fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Mar 12, 2023 |
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Mar 12, 2023 20:20
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OneSizeFitsAll posted:What was the upgrade? He's now using luck to throw knives instead of skill. For him that's an upgrade. I want to see him put on blindfolds and just start throwing knives seemingly at random. Also for the Thom/Moiraine stuff there's actually a lot of little (or not little) hints. She called him "Master Bard" out of nowhere in Emond's Field in book 1. I didn't pick that up then but listening to a podcast or two (namely Wheel Takes) went over it and it does make sense after you see more connections down the line. The biggest one for me personally was in The Shadow Rising when Moiraine says "I could wager I know the face of the man I will marry better than either of you knows that of your future husband." to Egwene and Elayne. There are very few candidates for who that could be. Honestly I can't think of anyone BUT Thom. Then there's Egwene's dream about just how far Thom will go to rescue Moiraine (sticking his hand in fire and pulling out her blue stone). And the fact that she wrote the letter to him, not Mat or anyone else.
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Mar 12, 2023 20:49
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A Memory of Light Chs 1-9 It's all go now! The negotiation scene in the tent was great. Though she was being a bit stubborn, I can see a bit more where Egwene was coming from on the seals, what with her being the Watcher and all. Her argument that at the very least the timing should be right makes sense. It's critical that Rand gets the Seanchan to sign the document. I guess this gives Fortuona the leverage she needs to try and get Rand to kneel before the Crystal Throne. Looking forward to seeing how that plays out. Even with that, there are substantial issues with them to iron out - Aviendha's visions; the fact that they have enslaved so many damane. The organisation of the battle strategies is great. Elayne as overall commander makes sense - she's been very impressive since beginning her quest to become Queen of Andor, showing very deft political manoeuvring. She's a great choice to be commander, and I love the symmetry of the four great captains matching the four theatres of war. Also I love how she immediately sees the advantage of Rand having Lews Therin's memories and how Rand loves that she is the first person to react to it so pragmatically. Definitely in line with her character, and a nice little moment strengthening their bond, which is nicely illustrated as also strengthened by the things they have in common as leaders with the heavy weight of responsibility on their shoulders. I also loved how Agelmar calls out Lan for wanting his glorious last stand, telling him to suck it up and do what's right for the overall war effort. I like how even though the series is fundamentally a grand good vs evil tale, it frequently finds ways to ground the plot and characters. Like, yeah, Lan sacrificing himself and his supporters would make for a great tale, but maybe it's not the best course of action in the cold light of day. Wondering how/whether the song that the Travelling Folk are looking for will come into play. It's not been mentioned much for a while, but I assume it's not a complete red herring. Could it be connected to Ogier singing? Time to read some more!
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Mar 15, 2023 13:45
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A Memory of Light 1-16 Obviously it's the final book but I'm still happy that it truly feels like it, everyone seems to be getting some cool moments. Egwene with the sa'angreal, Elanye taking command of everything, Perrin breaking into the Black Tower in Tel'aran'rhiod (and meeting Lanfear.. er Cyndane, er Mierin), Mat loving everything up by not opening a letter then running to his wife and getting lucky. I do like Androl as a character, and apparently one molded by Brandon Sanderson instead of RJ. The dual-bond was something I had wondered for a while but I didn't expect telepathy. I am very happy that he got creative with portalsgateways. That was absolutely sick. I would like to point out how loving great it is that as soon as Taim became a Forsaken everything started to go wrong for him. Like instantly. I wonder if the dramatic irony hurt or if it flew clear over his head.
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Mar 16, 2023 01:03
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A Memory of Light up to chapter 36 For those unsure, the big chapter is the next one I'll read. A simple 172 pages according to my ebook. I have to say I have really run out of patience with Perrin. The dude literally has a chance at Hessalam and goes "buh duh durrrr she woman" and lets her escape. I get this sort of thing when they're fresh out of Emonds Field, but now, leading up to the Last Battle? gently caress off Perrin, he's the second most idiotic Light sided person after Gawyn, who will always be the dumbest motherfucker, especially after putting on that ring. He's gonna get himself and then somehow Egwene killed because he literally can't ever make the correct decision. I have a mad theory that the Sharan that Mat captured might be Moghedien. The outfit matches, but this woman has a tattoo and was literally in the middle of battle, which is unlike her normal M.O., but I literally haven't seen her mentioned up until now and I know she was told to help Demandred. I do love that Mat is finally taking up his position as leader of all the armies. He feels the tug of Rand so I'm assuming he'll have to win in Merrilor, then move up to Thakan'dar and help them win there. Rand finally stepping outside of the pattern (even though Nynaeve still sees his body) was pretty cool, can't wait to explore that in depth in the next chapter. I'm glad that Egwene got to be an absolute badass again, just murdering endless Trollocs and Myrddraal. Like I said though, I'm super worried that proximity to Gawyn is going to end poorly for her. I continue to love Androl, using a giant gateway to pour lava flows over an enemy army was absolutely amazing. I figured that Logain would team him deathgates and Androl would just blast out a ton ofthose, but the lava thing was more amazing. I wonder if he'll do that again or come up with something else next time he's needed. Also Demandred is a punk, literally standing in the wrong battlefield crying for Rand to come out and fight him, when Rand is literally taking on Moridin and the Dark One. Hessalam is actually getting things done, true star of the Forsaken in these chapters.
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Mar 21, 2023 15:14
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pik_d posted:A Memory of Light up to chapter 36 I won't disagree that Demandred is kind of a moron, but he did get things done too and provided the Dark One with an army filled with channelers from a huge nation he now personally led going into the Last Battle, which is a pretty big deal. The only one that might have done more really is Semirhage, who murdered the entire royal family of Seanchan (bar Tuon), and threw the single biggest nation in the world and an entire continent into chaos.
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Mar 21, 2023 16:22
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pik_d posted:A Memory of Light up to chapter 36 Point 1.5: I feel Gawyn's portrayal got kind of hosed by Sanderson. He never felt quite this goddamn stupid during Jordan's run. Point 6: Demandred showing up was my OMGWTF moment. I had been trying to keep track of the remaining Forsaken, and had zero reads on where he could be, despite earlier in the book they had a pair of Sharran rulers at one of their conclaves, I think? I can't remember where or when that was, but I would love to re-read that section to see if it was more telegraphed than I thought.
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Mar 21, 2023 16:32
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Welp, I'm finished. And exhausted. I mean, that was a tiring book. In a good way. It really didn't let up for the whole 900-odd pages, most of which was a terrifying, exhausting battle with a myriad of constantly manifesting challenges for the forces of Light to face. Weaving the various plotlines together throughout, keeping them going at the pace they all needed, must have been an immensely challenging task for Sanderson. There's so much there, it's hard to really gather one's thoughts properly, but I will try and collect a few. Overall, it was immensely good. Satisfying, and true to the long build-up to get to this point. The ebb and flow of A Memory of Light, cool moments for so many characters, then ostensible doom, then moments of hope, then doom again. The plot twists. The many "hell yeah" moments. Almost too many to sort though in my mind! The initial meeting on Merrilor; the appearance of the Borderlanders beside Lan as he charged to almost certain death at the Gap; the division of the great captains and subsequent raising of Mat to be in command; Egwene; Olver blowing the horn; Olver blowing the horn again at Shayol Ghul and the appearance of the wolf Heroes; the wrath of the Ogier; Lan giving Demandred his comeuppance; Logain realising the Black Tower could be a force for good and accepted by the world without him needing to be all-powerful... and many others, not least of which were most of Rand's bits in Shayol Ghul. Oh, and tiny snippet at the very end showing Loial did, in fact, write his book. Not surprising, but lovely. I did look up the event that caused Mat to sever from the Horn, to clarify. The apparently accepted explanation is that it was when Rahvin killed him and Rand resurrected him by balefiring Rahvin. Apparently this is controversial, as it is not clear why if balefire reverses everything in the pattern, it didn't also restore the link with the Horn. I can see why this is muddy, but I guess it's not too hard to accept it, given the Horn's special status. One thing I'm not sure of: the Hero who wheeled away when they all appeared on the Heights, was that Birgitte rushing off to help Elayne? The book also made it seem as though she just reappeared over her corpse, so I'm not clear on this point. Either way, that image of her doing so, then killing Mellar, was incredible. We didn't lost too many main characters, for which I was thankful, but Egwene hurt. Man, she was great leading up to this book, and she sure went out in an amazing way, obliterating the Sharan channelers, defeating Taim and healing the effects of Balefire on the Pattern. By far one of the Lights MVPs over the course of the story. Yet might she have survived, if Gawyn's death had not been there to affect her emotions so? It's clear he was a blithering idiot who hamstrung her, in any case. After "realising" he needed to take a back seat and support her how she needed, he went against his own revelation and threw his life away against Demandred, in a pathetic and ultimately impotent outpouring of vanity. Egwene deserved far better than this muppet as her husband and warder. I can see pik_d throwing a fit when they reach that point in the books, and I certainly wouldn't blame them. Siuan was sad, too, but that happened so fast, it was hard to dwell on. Still, the tragedy was revisited and doubled up when we learn of Bryne's subsequent death. Everything with Rand and the Dark One was great. Though Callandor played a role, it all felt in line with the prophecies and build-up, no sense of deus ex machina. The reasoning behind not killing the Dark One made sense, and Rand's ultimate solution was a clear upgrade on Lews Therin's. Will the Dark One begin to infect the world once again from his new and improved prison, on a future turn of the Wheel? I suppose we will never know. Moiraine and Nynaeve had little to do throughout the book, but their linking with Rand, as well as Nynaeve's actions with Alanna, were obviously vital to the outcome. And Nynaeve did a LOT throughout the series, as, despite her long absence, did Moiraine, if only by virtue of her initial actions in the series in finding and guiding the three ta'veren (and also, to an extent, of her appearance at Merrilor). Perrin was absent for long stretches, but his actions were also vital to the final effort. It felt very satisfying to witness him defeat Slayer, and then withstand Lanfear's Compulsion. What a surprise that she was still vying for power and position right until the end. He did his bit for sure, and I'm very pleased for him he found Faile. Mat leading the battle after the compromise of the great captains was of course perfect. I loved Demandred confusing him for Lews Therin because of his battle knowledge. On that point, Demandred super competent foe and general, but what a plank. Spent the whole battle calling out the Dragon to come and fight him, like Rand doesn't have better things to do. He was majorly badass though, and the successive failures to kill him by Gawyn and then Galad made Lan's eventual triumph all the more impactful. So the Tinkers' song didn't play a role. I had thought it might, but I guess it was meant more as a metaphor. And the very end. Hmm. Well, after such a long book, not to mention thirteen previous ones, I'd have liked a longer epilogue. Not everything needed to be tied up in a neat package, but a little more indication of what might happen might have been nice, or at least the events after Rand's victory could have been given a little more time to breathe. I suppose there is a nod to the Seanchan maybe chilling out a bit, depending on how the conversation with Hawking and Tuon went, and with Mat returning to the latter at the end. Cadsuane becoming Amyrlin. Aviendha hints at hope that her visions will not necessarily play out. Rand deserves his new life. Do I like everyone falsely assuming he's dead? Not sure, but he deserves the chance to just live, to be, to enjoy the world, now he's saved it and after all he's suffered. I hope he gets to spend time with his three loves, and that they're not too put off by him having Moridin's face. I will have to collect my thoughts a bit more over the next few days. Sorry if the above is a bit dis-ordered. I'm looking forward to reading some detailed online discussion to enrich my perspective, checking out some of the spoiler threads on here, and getting annoyed at the TV series for all its changes. It feels very liberating to be able to google without caution now! But overall, I've had a real blast with this series over the last year or so. I'm glad I was able to read them at my own pace and not wait for new books to come out. It wasn't always that great from a prose point of view, it was at the same time very readable, and some of the most seriously fun and satisfying, balls-out fantasy escapism I've read, with a truly addictive plot and some great characters. Even during the slower, less exciting books I was driven to keep going. I cannot wait to read them to my wife, once I've finished reading her Malazan. After all, there are no endings to the turning of the Wheel of Time. But today was an ending. OneSizeFitsAll fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Mar 22, 2023 |
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Mar 21, 2023 17:31
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mercenarynuker posted:Point 1.5: I feel Gawyn's portrayal got kind of hosed by Sanderson. He never felt quite this goddamn stupid during Jordan's run. I know that one at one point that Graendal captured the two rules of Shara to act as decoys, because she hoped they'd fool the other Forsaken into thinking she had an interest in or possibly even was after locating herself in Shara as a new power base. I don't think we ever see Demandred keeping any retainers of any kind.
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Mar 21, 2023 17:35
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mercenarynuker posted:Point 1.5: I feel Gawyn's portrayal got kind of hosed by Sanderson. He never felt quite this goddamn stupid during Jordan's run. Up to AMoL chapter 36 spoilers. Gawyn, when some random traveler tells him a rumor about Rand killing Morgase, then Egwene assures him that isn't true: Well YOU need to provide evidence to deter me from trusting some rando Gawyn, when Rand invites him to come talk: Nah I wouldn't want to hear his side of the story, can't possibly be anything useful there Gawyn, when the Tower Aes Sedai keep Rand in a box and take him out only to beat him: This seems chill Gawyn, immediately after Rand saves his life from that random Asha'man during Dumai's Wells: GOD I want this fucker dead Gawyn, when thinking about who to align himself with, has the option of the Tower Aes Sedai who he now knows wants him dead, or the Rebel Aes Sedai which include his sister and the woman he loves: Gotta stay with the tower, can't change allegiances now Gawyn, when he is ordered to attack Bryne's army with his 300 teenagers: Yeah sure, we'll do that! And that's just in the Robert Jordan books, this motherfucker was always looking at all the relevant information and coming to the exact wrong answer. Every time. He is so dumb, and he's going to get killed for it and probably take the Amerlyn down with him. Demandred was more of a process of elimination for me, I had him pegged as picking up the pieces of Shara or Seanchan after Semirhage and Graendal hosed everything up there, but I figured it would be Shara since we hadn't really seen them before and I was desperate for them to be relevant somehow. Edit: Sorry I'm just real mad about Gawyn, it's just that he loving sucks and always has pik_d fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Mar 21, 2023 |
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Mar 21, 2023 17:57
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OneSizeFitsAll posted:So the Tinkers' song didn't play a role. I had thought it might, but I guess it was meant more as a metaphor. Now that you're done, I'm just going to throw this out there: The Tinkers' song point is actually resolved way, way earlier- in book 4, when Rand has his Rhuidean flashback and we see the origins of the Aiel and the Tuatha'an. The song is just something they did to help grow crops (and it's not even the specific song- it's a Talent the people singing have). The Tinkers have committed a classic correlation-causation error ("There was a time when the world was good, and we sang" -> "There used to be a song that made the world good.")
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Mar 21, 2023 18:41
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:Now that you're done, I'm just going to throw this out there: As a furtherance to that, I believe Sanderson noted at one point that going off Jordan's notes the Tinkers wouldn't even recognize the song if they heard it because why would they, when none of them were ever alive to have done so? I imagined before I finished the books that the Tinkers would sing some food into harvest in order to feed the armies after the Last Battle because it had such devastation personally. I don't mind the fact it's just another bit of lost knowledge and the Tinkers are who they are regardless of it now as an ending for that storyline, but I do wish there had been some in story acknowledgement of this, rather than it just being kind of left for people to assume despite characters outright saying they'd recognize it if they heard it.
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Mar 21, 2023 19:13
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OneSizeFitsAll posted:Welp, I'm finished. And exhausted. I still maintain that Egwene got done dirty. And ESPECIALLY in that her immediate successor is the odious Cadsuane, who sucks and always sucked and has no redeeming values whatsoever. Also, I thought Mat's connection to the Horn was severed when he was hung following going into the doorway in Tear? Did I misremember his possible mortality there?
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Mar 22, 2023 01:13
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More AMoL spoilers:mercenarynuker posted:Also, I thought Mat's connection to the Horn was severed when he was hung following going into the doorway in Tear? Did I misremember his possible mortality there?
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Mar 22, 2023 01:28
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pik_d posted:Edit: Sorry I'm just real mad about Gawyn, it's just that he loving sucks and always has Up to AMoL chapter 36 spoilers: He was always dumb. Except in book 1. But taking Elaida's side during the coup was already a not so stellar decision, especially when he had to fight and kill his mentor. And it's only downhill from there, as the nice list you compiled shows. He's for sure the dumbest light side character.
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Mar 22, 2023 07:31
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I've finished AMoL too now. Man, what a ride. Birgitte dying was so terrible, but her showing back up with the Heros of the Horn was amazing. And she's going to be reborn! I also felt horrible for Rhuarc and then Aviendha for having to kill him. So many others too, Siuan, Daddy Davram, Egwene... Egwene did go out like she lived though, a complete loving boss, taking no poo poo and giving it her all to do what needs to be done. I love her and respect that not everyone lives with a cast of characters this big, but I wish she got to be Amerlyn for 200 years or whatever. Cadsuane is great of course, she won't take any poo poo, but I wonder how much she'll wish she could just retire to a nice rose farm. But Rand's journey with the Dark One, him finally realizing that he can't carry everything, and that freeing him. I loved it, and I loved that he had to realize that he couldn't just push evil out of the universe. I also like that he did get to have his own time after the Last Battle. He's got some weird pattern powers going on though, basically changing things in the real world the way people can in Tel'aran'rhiod. Hopefully it isn't too long before his THREE GIRLFRIENDS can join him. Elayne has a country to run though. Olver taking after Mat so much that he even ended up blowing the horn was great, I'm glad the kid finally got to have a real role in the story. Mat's life is gonna be hell though, having to be Prince of the Ravens in a time of peace. At least he's got a kid on the way to keep him busy. I am pretty disappointed that the world ends with slavery still going on. I had really hoped that Tuon being able to learn channeling would have led to her changing things. Or just that she sees that the Aes Sedai act just fine without being leashed. I'm also surprised that there's some Forsaken just walking around. They're enslaved or compulsed sure, but they're still out there. Then there's Lanfear/Cyndane/Mierin, who apparently isn't actually dead per an interview with Brandon Sanderson. I hate to say it too, Perrin was a real let down. It just felt like at every turn not as much happened with him as the other main characters. You'd think cool teen wolfman with dream powers could be really cool, but no, he just drags everything out and goes missing from time to time. Overall though, I loved this series and will almost certainly reread, or listen to it on audiobooks. Now all I can do is wait for the show to start up again, listen to podcasts, or read other peoples reads here. At least now I can go to the other thread!
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Mar 23, 2023 02:22
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