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Huh actually, is this the first we're actually shown bodies? The game is usually pretty careful to just describe bodies, not actually show them on screen. I think maybe we were shown Sheep's body on Snake's route, but that's about it.
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Mar 16, 2023 08:52
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I was originally going to not trust Tiger since it is her route, but thankfully other posts reminded me that Snake is still a traitor in this one. It would be interesting if we have a route where the focus character is being framed. Trust Tiger. Dragon's presence was weird for the other one. Hopefully that leads us towards the realisation of her being one of the traitors.
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Mar 16, 2023 08:57
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Trust Tiger and Why was Dragon here. Here's what I think happened: Dragon attacked Tiger, because she's probably the HATEFUL personality. Then Snake killed Dragon by ambushing her, rearranged the scene, and retrieved and fired the gun, then bolted down an exit and came running back. This created the illusion that a) the attack just happened and b) Snake was responding to it. This also explains the lack of the trinkets being taken; it makes it look like the attacker didn't have time, and if they're missing, searching everyone for them is the obvious first step anyway. That said, I don't fully trust Tiger, but the presence of the sniper is what makes me trust her testimony--there's no reason for her to have retrieved and fired it as Dragon wasn't killed with a gun, and I can't imagine her going as far as intentionally hitting her head to fool someone. Edit: I considered that maybe Dragon attacked Tiger but didn't immediately KO her, and Tiger retaliated lethally by grabbing and swinging the lamp, but it still wouldn't explain the gun--Tiger would have no reason to lie if it was self-defense, and no reason to get the gun. ZCKaiser fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Mar 16, 2023 |
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Mar 16, 2023 14:54
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ApplesandOranges posted:Man, knowing that Dragon is very likely to be the second traitor makes this route less intense than it probably should be, though that's no fault of the game. It's actually making things more tense for me. If Dragon was the first to die, she's likely to end the race in last place, and the race mechanics seem pretty consistent about ignoring whether people are alive or dead. Unless at least nine people tie for first - or the survivors realise that Dragon was Hateful and move her piece forward - everyone could be in real trouble.
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Mar 17, 2023 10:12
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 The thread voted to give Tiger the benefit of the doubt here. [BGM: Eyes of the Dragon]   I trust you, Tiger! I don't think you could do this. I knew you believed in me! But Mouse, did you not listen to all the evidence I just laid out? That's just it, it all seems too neat. Do you really think things are that simple? Things usually are. I'm sorry, but I'm not going anywhere until we settle this. Fine. I'll just have to look around and prove that Tiger's innocent! If you can, please do. Things were settled. While the others looked for Minor Trinkets, we'd investigate Dragon's murder. We all briefly went into separate rooms to input our actions for the next round, and then we returned to work. [BGM: Silence]  Don't try anything funny, Tiger. You're strong, but I've confiscated the sniper rifle, and there's four of us. I'm not going to do anything! Ah, investigating a crime scene. It's never a fun time. You do this often? ...I guess you would, being a police officer and all. Yeah. So, as a cop, what do you think?[BGM: Dog Days]   I think I need to see more. But there are a few oddities in the scene that make me think Ox is being a little hasty. Let's try and look for anything that stands out of place if Tiger was the killer, and see what we can make of it. So, where to check first?We're actually given a list of options to check for this section, but we're meant to look at everything before we can continue (you can't miss anything), so I'll just cut the in-between stuff and we'll just go down the list. So I heard gunshots. We all did, yes. What was that about? So the sniper rifle was fired four times. Thrice in quick succession, and then a fourth a few moments later. I heard that. I mean, where did the gun fire? Surely we should be able to tell where the bullets went, right? That we can, and we have. Obviously, there are four impact points. Two are against the left wall. One hit a nearby chair. And one hit the end of the metal pipe. The metal pipe? Indeed, it is quite strange. Do you think the pipe could've been used to block a bullet? I quite doubt that. I'd think it more likely that the pipe was leaning up against the wall that was shot at and was incidentally struck. ...But I can't completely deny your proposal. There wasn't much time between those shots and us getting to the crime scene, was there? No, no there was not. Whatever happened after those bullets were fired, there wasn't much time for anything else.  As someone not currently favoring the defense or prosecution of Tiger, I must say that those shots are the detail that sticks the most out to me like a sore thumb. It is the hardest to frame in any cohesive narrative. For that reason, it is either the most or least important part of this whole thing. Well, thanks for that totally unhelpful unsolicited advice, Snake. Keep being you. That I will. It is interesting that the killer didn't take the gun with them. Maybe they were afraid they'd be seen with it. True, but they could at least take the pistol or the poison, don't you think? I guess. They must not have had enough time. No Trinkets were taken, either, even though Tiger was unconscious. I was actually the last person to give her a Trinket, so I know the number collected was six. All six are present. But wait, doesn't that raise a problem with... I asked the thread for some input on this one, too though the question I asked was different, since it's a little hard to tell what this is actually asking.  In any case, they decided what would stand out more to Mouse is... Isn't it strange then that Dragon was here? What do you mean? People have been visiting Tiger to drop off the Trinkets they've collected, right? If Dragon didn't have a Trinket with her, why was she here? Huh. I mean, if Tiger was the killer, it's not like she could leave to go looking for someone to bring them back here. So either Dragon came here of her own volition, or she was killed somewhere else and brought here to frame Tiger. But if Dragon wasn't dropping off a trinket, why would Dragon come here? I suppose she could've been passing by, or she could've come to talk with Tiger, but that seems kind of coincidental. You're right. That is odd. I don't know, it might be nothing. I was just thinking about it. Anyways, let's keep looking around.  I want to check out Tiger's head injury some more. Shouldn't looking into that prove whether or not she made the whole thing up? I don't know about that. It is worth looking into, though. Looking at the bits of blood on the end of that metal pipe, it's clear what the weapon was. Hey Tiger, would you mind if we look at your injury a little closer? Sure thing!Tiger sat on the floor as Bunny started inspecting her head through her hair. Hmm... I see. Well, if I can say one thing for sure, she didn't inflict this wound on herself. This was a hit to the left-back side of her head from a horizontal blunt strike with a whole amount of force, and I don't know how you'd self-inflict that. Could you maybe hold it behind your head and try to swing? I don't think you get how much force I'm talking about here. It's possible she could've been concussed, or even killed from something like this. It's literally impossible to get that sort of momentum by just moving your wrists and part of your arms. AND its only a single strike. So that's it, she's proven innocent with this, right? I don't know about that. After all, even if she was hit, that doesn't necessarily mean she couldn't have gone on to kill Dragon and then faked being knocked out by it. However, it certainly makes it a lot less likely. A blow like this would absolutely send even someone like Tiger to her knees for quite a bit of time. Someone striking like this? That's someone who's not afraid to kill. I guess it's just tricky for me to see a scenario where Tiger gets hit with this and somehow gets the upper hand. She'd be brought down, and even if she wasn't unconscious, she wouldn't exactly be in any fighting shape. She was found lying by the left table, right? Yeah. The iron pipe and the sniper rifle were both lying near her. Say... what's that? Is that a pen gouged into the wooden table? I think you're right. The pen's just stuck in there, sticking out. Who would do something like that? Who knows? Doubt it has much to do with anything, though. I guess. The most damning piece of evidence against Tiger would have to be that note, right? Then we should probably focus on it a bit, don't you think? Makes sense to me. Let's take a look at this thing.I walked over to the counter where the note was written. Indeed, it was easy to see how Dragon could quickly start scribbling on that sheet of paper with the provided pen in a moment of desperation. But is that what happened? Let's go over the details of this note. Maybe that can help source its authenticity? Yeah.This was a critical point. If the note was forged, Tiger was definitely being framed. If the note was real, Tiger was almost certainly the killer. Those were the only options.  Unfortunately, we don't have a sample of Dragon's handwriting to compare this to. If we did, well, that'd make our job a lot easier. However, the jagged writing and messy nature of it does suggest it was written quickly, in a fit of panic. The unfinished Z in particular is very convincingly done. And while we're talking about the Z, the fact that it was unfinished does imply she was struck down while writing this. As do the pattern of blood flecks. They're not in the middle of the paper, more splayed a bit to the sides. This is in line with where they'd generally fall if they came from a blow directly to the top-back of a head right in front of it. The angle of the flecks, too, that's hard to fake. I'll go on the record and say that the blood at least authentically came from an attack happening right near this sheet of paper. But that's not to say the writing's legit. That could've been forged, hell, it could've been written after the blood got on the page. Wow. That was certainly a detailed analysis. This stuff's pretty standard for a crime scene investigation. Anyway, I think the existence of this note is the biggest mark against it. What do you mean? I mean people aren't stupid. Do you think Tiger really wouldn't notice this written down like that? And if she did notice it, do you really think she'd just leave incriminating evidence like that lying around? No, no she'd have trashed it immediately. Convincing as the writing may be, I've gotta say that the whole thing's probably a scam. ...Probably. Okay.I made a note of everything Bunny said, and continued onward.  We for sure have to look at Dragon's body, right? Well, it IS a murder investigation, so that'd sure be handy. Right, right. I'm not looking forward to examining a corpse... If you want, I could do most of the examining. ...Yeah, that'd probably be for the best. I'm not trying to be a baby or anything, it's just kind of... You know? Say no more. I used to be just like that. It's honestly probably disturbing that I'm as fine with looking at dead bodies as I am. Isn't that normal for a cop? It is. Doesn't make it less disturbing. ...But I digress, let's get to examining! Bunny approached the corpse and started looking over it. After a time, he returned with a report. There's not really any surprises in terms of cause of death. She was definitely bludgeoned to death by a single hit over the head with that lamp. I believe the lamp was previously sitting on the table on the left side of the room. Anyways, there was one detail which caught my eye. There was bruising on her neck. Bruising? Basically, she was choked out at some point. And not with a tool, someone wrapped their hands around her and just started squeezing tight. Horrible. Horrible, but also telling. Think about Tiger's strength. I don't think it's exaggerating when I say she could probably crush a human's windpipe if she really wanted to. Could she? I'm sorry to say but I don't know the strength needed for windpipe crushing. You need a lot, but not more than Tiger has. The choking attempt definitely failed, that's not a mistake. So I guess I'm thinking that Tiger wouldn't have failed. Someone with average strength, like me for instance, could easily try to choke her out, but fail to and let Dragon temporarily escape. If Tiger had her hands around that neck, she could just squeeze and it'd be over like that. That makes sense. ...But, that's pretty loosey goosey when it comes to evidence, that doesn't prove anything by itself. Was there anything else you noticed about her? No, that was basically it. Hmm.Are there any other clues to be found here? ...I got it.  We should check Dragon's tablet. Her tablet? Yeah. Why? It might be nothing, but it's worth checking.Instead of explaining, I walked over to the tablet and turned it on. I moved to the information section of the tablet. I wasn't expecting much, but... Oh my god! What?[BGM: Mousetrap]  No way. I never would've thought Dragon was like this! What is it? Dragon had the hateful personality. What? Seriously?People started crowding around me and looking over my shoulder. Sure enough, it was written as plain as day, and in green text for whatever reason. Why would she hide this from us? Was she scared we'd turn on her?  I knew it. There was something fishy about that girl. It certainly makes me feel better about this whole thing. Snake! Does that make me sound crass? I suppose it does. But, speaking factually, she was something of an inevitable casualty if we planned for the group to survive. In a sense, it makes her murder... meaningless is probably the wrong word, isn't it? Yes, it is! Mouse, let's get back to focusing on the investigation. I mean yeah, this was a pretty shocking piece of news. But I don't actually know if it changes much. Oh, it changes things alright.[BGM: That Pesky Rodent]  The pieces were starting to come together. I think that's pretty much everything that I had to look at... but I don't know how much it clears up. Give me a second, I'm going to think about all the evidence and try to piece together the crime. Take all the time you need piecing things together. As for me, I'm convinced. Tiger couldn't be the culprit here, there's just too many oddities. Seriously? You've been swayed just by looking around this room? You better have found some conclusive and convincing evidence. I don't know about conclusive, but it's definitely convincing. It convinced me, anyways. Did it? I'm sorry, but if it's not substantial, I won't change my mind on this. Gosh, how much do you hate me? It feels like ever since you started suspecting me you've not let up on me whatsoever! You're like a shark who's smelt blood. It must be your cop instincts that make you such a predator. ...For the last time, it's prosecutor. You know there's a real cop standing right over there? Tiger's right, Ox, you seem unfairly fixated on her guilt. She was clearly attacked, and you're blaming her? Even the note central to your case against her doesn't make any sense, it shouldn't be there! I'm not saying I know everything. But where do you propose the killer escaped to? I already covered the possible exits. If not Tiger, the culprit would either have to be you or Snake. My, the moment Tiger seems like less of a target, Ox moves on to the closest others for his next target. What frightful instincts on this one. I don't care if I'm 'frightful'. I'm trying to keep us all alive. We can't trust Tiger. Don't you see the longer you waste on this, the less time you spend looking for Minor Trinkets? So let's just stop talking about this already! ...Got it. What? I've made my decision. After looking things over, I think there's a clear answer. What's that? On the matter of Tiger's guilt...
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Mar 17, 2023 20:42
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note: not an actual vote this time, since we're at the part where things get kind of tricky in regards to an LP, but still feel free to answer and continue theorizing what happened 
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Mar 17, 2023 20:43
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Well, the things that are clear are that Dragon was Hateful confirmed (meaning she was desperate), Tiger was attacked and the note might actually be incriminating since we know from other routes Tiger is illiterate. So the logical scenario is that Tiger actually is the killer: Dragon attacked her to get her hands on the weapons to kill the others, Tiger fought back and killed Dragon in self defense. Granted there's still stuff I haven't figured out, the shots for one; why doesn't Tiger confess to self-defense, why didn't Tiger choke Dragon to death but apparently let her go and then killed her with something else and what involment Snake had because he's the other traitor and he's a manipulator.
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Mar 17, 2023 21:29
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Throwing out a theory, but I think it's pretty weak. Snake and Dragon were working together to gain control over the weapons cache. Dragon attacked Tiger and was losing to a chokehold. Snake swooped in to finish the job by KOing Tiger and killing Dragon. Then he forged the note. And then he randomly shot the sniper rifle to get people to the scene of the crime. Tiger lost her memory after being struck. No explanation for the pen jammed into the desk.
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Mar 17, 2023 21:30
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Oh i don't doubt that Tiger had a hand in killing Dragon, but that was absolutely orchestrated by snake.
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Mar 17, 2023 21:39
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It could be that snake and dragon had yet to identify each other and werent collaborating. Snake pushed for dragon as a guard choice, but that doesn't necessarily imply knowledge of her role. It could be dragon attacked Tiger and Snake murdered her and pinned it on tiger as independent self serving acts.
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Mar 18, 2023 00:13
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NeoRonTheNeuron posted:Throwing out a theory, but I think it's pretty weak. Dragon's killed using the pen before (I think she used it to kill Rooster in his route), so I think she was trying to stab Tiger with it. The question would be why Tiger hasn't said any of this. If Dragon attacked her then she would have said so. Tiger's probably not innocent, it sounds hard to set up that sequence of events with her being completely unaware of everything. At the very least, Dragon couldn't have just waited for Tiger to randomly check out the nurse's office to attack her, it must have been set-up somehow. What I'm suspect of is that the sniper is the only thing taken. If whoever grabbed it went into the weapons cache, they could have just grabbed another weapon to go with like the grenade for self-defense. As an aside, it's weird seeing Bunny so helpful. I mean he's helpful in like most non-traitor routes, but his slimy self really sticks to your perception of him.
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Mar 18, 2023 00:19
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ApplesandOranges posted:What I'm suspect of is that the sniper is the only thing taken. If whoever grabbed it went into the weapons cache, they could have just grabbed another weapon to go with like the grenade for self-defense.
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Mar 18, 2023 00:57
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I think no. Dragon seems to have been killed with the lamp, and I don't think Tiger would need it--Bunny just established she could've killed Dragon with her bare hands most likely. So I think Dragon could only have been killed by Snake, whatever else happened at the scene. Snake was definitely there; no one else would grab the sniper rifle, and no one knows his background enough to try and frame him with it.
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Mar 20, 2023 16:01
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 content warning: discussion of child neglect/abuse Similar to a couple of the previous routes, I'm going to be handling the decisions starting with where last update ended just because of how complicated it would be otherwise. This route in particular is arguably the least LP-friendly because of its set-up (some of which you literally couldn't know is important at the time), but we'll get into that more with this route's bonus update. In any case, Mouse's deliberation here is... [BGM: The Undying]  Tiger did it. What?! Seriously, Mouse? I thought you were on my side! I was, until investigating. And I don't think you're some monster, Tiger. You should've confessed at the start of this. We would've had a lot more sympathy for you. What are you talking about? I didn't do any of this! ...I guess I'll have to explain it, then. Please do, Mouse, because I'm struggling to follow you here. You were with me when we found all that evidence against Tiger being the culprit! What could have changed your mind? The evidence is certainly at odds with an easy understanding of this crime. However, that doesn't mean Tiger isn't the culprit. It just means that Ox's vague explanation was missing many details. ...Look, I'll try and explain things the best I can, how they happened, from the beginning. Let's start with how Dragon ended up here. The answer's surprisingly simple. You should probably already have a good idea of the answer here.  Dragon came here in order to attack Tiger. The metal pipe, which wasn't among the weapons confiscated, likely was brought by her. Obviously, Tiger couldn't go looking for something like that while abandoning her post. Dragon clearly wanted to be the guard of the weapons. She also hid the fact that she had the hateful personality. Unfortunately, with all that in mind, I can only conclude that she had malicious plans in mind. Dragon's also the type who'd challenge Tiger in a fight. That all makes sense to me. Okay, I buy that. But what then? Isn't it plausible that Dragon could be the one behind attacking Tiger? That's plausible... but incorrect. I'll get to why later, but let me just keep explaining what actually happened. There was some scuffle between the two. I won't claim to know exactly how things went down beyond there, because I honestly don't know. At some point, it ended up with Tiger pinning Dragon, choking her out. Bunny previously pointed out that if Tiger meant to kill Dragon, she could've crushed her throat at this point. That's absolutely correct. However, that didn't happen. Reason being, at that point Tiger didn't actually want to kill Dragon, just restrain her and maybe put her in her place. So she was strangling Dragon, but not to a lethal extent. Maybe she was trying to explain something to Dragon. However, if Dragon's anything, she's a fighter. She got one over on Tiger and escaped from her grasp. If I had to guess, I'd say Dragon poked Tiger in both her eyes. That's why Tiger was rubbing her eyes when she woke up, even though she reportedly wasn't attacked in the eyes. At this point, despite escaping, Dragon was completely out of energy. She thought Tiger was totally trying to kill her, and at this point she was right. Enraged from the injury, Tiger went reeling backwards, until she recovered. When she did, she was furious beyond belief. She grabbed the nearby lamp and came at Dragon. However, Dragon had begun writing a last message in the hopes of warning the rest of us. Even though Dragon was the attacker, whatever transpired in that fight had legitimately scared Dragon. Dragon thought that even though she was the traitor, Tiger might be an even more dangerous force to our group. ...Or, maybe she was just bitter she lost, and tried to make sure Tiger wouldn't get away unscathed. Whatever the reason, she didn't finish writing it before Tiger slammed the lamp through the back of Dragon's skull, killing her near instantly. Some blood splashed onto the note in front. But Mouse, doesn't that scenario run into the problem I brought up earlier? Tiger should've noticed what was written on the note and destroyed it. Normally, I'd agree with you. However, I'd like to test something out right now. I walked over to where the note was written. Using a pen, I wrote something on the sheet of paper. 'If you're really innocent, speak up now and you'll prove it!' After writing it, I showed it to the group. Ox, Snake, and Bunny all reacted to the message, but didn't speak up. Tiger on the other hand... What? It's the message Dragon wrote, right? I don't know what you're trying to show me with that. It was clearly meant to frame me! I can't believe you'd be so easily fooled, Mouse. ...I knew it. What?[BGM: Silence]  You can't read what's written on this sheet of paper, can you?
Earlier, when Ox first showed this to us, you didn't react with surprise more like confusion. You only got angry after Ox explained what it was to us. ...In fact, this isn't the only example of you not being able to read. Earlier, when talking to Pig, you clearly couldn't read the sign on this office door. And even before that, when we found the lock to the weapon closet, you didn't realize there was writing on it. Seriously? She's not blind, is she? She hasn't acted like that at all! Care to explain yourself, Tiger?[BGM: Weak Pig]  
Way to expose my weakness in front of everybody, Mouse! ...Fine, I guess I'll admit it. My vision is damaged. I'm not blind, but... Did any of you hear about the story of Aaliyah Abadi? The woman hid the children she'd had with another man from her husband. Her husband was on an extended vacation before and during the birth. And to keep them secret, she hid the kids in the basement of her house for years. I... vaguely remember that. I remember hearing it as an example when I learned about laws surrounding abuse. Specifically, child abuse. She became infamous after the story broke and was sentenced to prison for years due to neglecting her children to the point where it was deemed malicious. Why do you bring that up? Well, I'm her daughter. Zahara Abadi. Honestly, I've never really cared about that story. I mean, we never remembered any thing from that time, we were too young. For all we were concerned, it's the same as if we were adopted at a young age. We? Oh, me and my twin brother. ...Anyways, while I've pretty much moved on from then, there's actually one thing from that time that's stuck with me. ...A condition surrounding how I see. The basement we were kept in was usually pitch black. Apparently, if a human's eyes don't take in enough light at a very young age, weird things can happen. Through development, the rods and cones in my retinas weren't properly, er, calibrated, to skip a bunch of science talk. The end result is that I distinguish between light and darkness, but I can't see detail. Think of it as an extreme version of colorblindness. I can see the geometry of everything in the world, but... it's all pretty much textureless. These results have been seen in mice and cats when they were experimented on, but as far as I know I'm the only human to ever have this condition. I guess that's the perk of such a weirdly unique upbringing. Calling it a 'perk of a unique upbringing' certainly is a positive spin on the whole affair. That's... incredible, Tiger. How have you been using your tablet? Mine's voice operated. Apparently, for all his faults, the Jade Emperor is disability-friendly.The speakers kicked on.  All are treated as equal under the law's watchful eye. God drat it! Are you just watching this, you smug rear end in a top hat?! ...I honestly don't know if that was genuine, or sarcastic.[BGM: The Undying]  Anyways, I don't like talking about it, so thanks for that Mouse. What does it prove? It doesn't prove anything, by itself. However, it explains why you didn't get rid of the note. If you were observant, you might've realized Dragon was writing something down and ripped up the paper on policy. But you were so angry at that point, that you didn't even notice. All well and good, Mouse, but we still haven't explained what the deal is with the injury to the back of her head. That still doesn't make any sense. You're right. It doesn't seem like she could give that injury to herself. ...But she could, if she used one simple thing. The answer to this one is... ...She used the sniper rifle to knock herself out. Uh... Mouse, I don't want to be the one to tell you this, but she was hit with the metal pipe, not the rifle. The pipe was the thing that hit her head, true. But it wasn't the force behind the attack. ...Explain. After killing Dragon, Tiger began to panic. She had just killed someone. Even though it was partly self-defense, she had no assurance that people would believe her when she said that. Even if they did, its not as though in truth she was a completely blameless victim. It's clear that towards the end, Dragon had stopped her attacks, and even if it was in a fit of rage, Tiger did strike Dragon down from behind.  Ultimately, Tiger decided that she had to hide what had happened. But she couldn't leave her post! And people were liable to visit her at any moment. She was right, Ox and I were on our way at this point. So she decided to quickly come up with a story and make it look like she was attacked. I think we've all been underestimating Tiger. On the surface, she might not seem the smartest, but she's actually pretty quick on the uptake a lot of the time. And she's really good at physics. Which is why her makeshift ruse fooled us all. What ruse? She started by plunging a pen into the table to act as a base. She carefully placed the metal pipe against that pen. Then, she fired three shots with the rifle at the wall to cause confusion. After all, if there was only one shot, and it hit the pipe, it'd be much easier to figure out what happened. Finally, she sat in the proper place, carefully aimed the rifle, and fired it at one end of the pipe. Huh? With the pen directly behind the center of the pipe, the path of least resistance when one end of the pipe is pushed forward is for the other end to swing outwards. It was that bullet-powered swing that ended up making that nasty strike to the left side of the back of her head. Such a plan was incredibly risky. It seriously hurt her, but with such momentum it could've done so much worse. However, Tiger isn't the type to get scared by something like that. She probably didn't even think about it. She just executed her plan successfully. Afterwards, the pipe rolled to the floor besides her. Lies, lies, all of it! I didn't do anything like that! You can't prove any of it! Tiger, just admit it!' Why would I admit something that didn't happen? You've been saying all of this, but you don't have any evidence, do you? Fine. You want me to show you some evidence? Here's something that'll prove that you were never really attacked, and that in truth you were the one that killed Dragon! Sorry, Tiger. The proof is, in fact... Tiger, you're about to be done in by your own testimony! Huh? You said that you were standing by the counter, when in the corner of your eye you saw someone rushing at you from the hallway. You tried to turn towards them, but you were knocked out. Is this correct? Yeah. So what? It doesn't match with your injury. What? You were hit on the left side of the back of your head. However, if you were looking into the nurse's office, then turned to face an attacker coming from the hallway, you'd be turning your head right. It's unclear how fast the attacker got to you. However, if they swung at you, they'd most likely hit the right side of the back of your head. At best, they'd hit the center of the back of your head. But it's inconceivable that from that approach they'd be able to hit the left side of the back of your head. Therefore, either you're completely lying about that happening... or you're leaving the part out where you avoided the attack and began to fight with the assailant, Dragon. That's not... you're just... As I expected, it was Tiger's work all along. The more the investigation dragged on, the clearer that became. Huh. I was so sure that Tiger was just being framed. But with all of that laid out... I've got no choice but to believe that Tiger's guilty. You're all wrong! I didn't do anything wrong!  It's her fault she attacked me! She was the one disrupting the order. She needed to die for the team to survive! Tiger... Stop looking at me like that!! The last, important choice, and probably a pretty obvious one again, all things considered Tiger, I understand that you were scared. It's okay now. Please, just talk with us. I... Why'd you hide this from us? ...If I told anyone, you'd all exclude me when push came to shove. You couldn't trust a murderer, and you wouldn't believe that it was self-defense. I'd end up dead! I had to hide it! You certainly had to hide it. But not because of that, is it? What do you mean?[BGM: Slithering]  Tiger, you're certainly working the sympathy angle to some success right now. But you're not deserving of that, are you? You're nothing but a rage-filled murderer. The hell are you talking about? You had to hide it because if you didn't, you'd go to jail when we get out. You'll go to jail for a long time. No I wouldn't! No I won't! Yes you will. Had Dragon survived, she surprisingly would've had a stronger case. Courts are very lenient to extenuating circumstances. The Plank of Carneades has been the precedent for several rulings which are lenient if you kill someone in order to save yourself. Dragon was a poor victim of an evil death game, doing what was needed to survive. You, however, have no such excuse. It was self defense! Self defense, you say? That's an awfully difficult thing to prove, were it even true. But let's go over the sequence of events, shall we? Dragon blindsided you with an attack using a metal pipe. You easily were able to disarm her and bring her to the ground. It wasn't easy! Fine, you brought her to the ground with difficulty. Either way, at the moment you started to strangle her, you had won the fight. Now, contrary to popular belief, just because someone has attempted to kill you, that does not give you carte blanche to murder them back. You need to prove that they present a clear and present danger to the life of you or someone else. That requirement was certainly not met when you began to strangle Dragon to death. I wasn't going to kill her then! Impossible to say. Either way, Dragon narrowly escaped your grasp and began to scribble a desperate note. However, in your rage-fueled state, you didn't stop your assault. You grabbed a nearby weapon and bashed in the back of her skull. She was unarmed, clearly injured, and not able to put up a fight. She was scared, and her back was turned. And yet you murdered her. I'm sorry, but the fact that you have a death collar around your neck doesn't change the legality of those actions. But she was a traitor! She had the hateful personality! How is that not a clear and present danger? Ah, but you did not know that at the time, did you? Even if you did, that still isn't enough to justify an immediate murder like that. You killed her because you wanted to, not because you had to. Shut. Up. Snake, stop it. She doesn't know the specifics of self defense law! She probably thought she was fine! You don't need to assign malicious intent to her covering it up. Oh, but she's plenty knowledgeable of self-defense law, aren't you, Zahara Abadi? Shut up. What are you talking about, Snake? You know, I was in one of the classrooms where there were a number of project boards done by students. However, I didn't recognize one of the boards. Rather, I didn't recognize one of the topics on one of the boards. And after reading it over, I quickly realized that this was a project done by our very own Brian. Brian very generously decided to share some research he had done on Zahara. That is, Tiger. Do you want to know what happened to Zahara's mother? Well, Zahara ended up pushing that mother off the balcony of her 7th story hotel room in 'self-defense'. ...Tiger? Oh, by the looks of things the media painted this as a tragedy for Zahara. Her crazy, estranged mother, finally out of jail, tracks down her daughter and somehow blames the child for ruining her life. That mother, Aaliyah, barges her way into Zahara's room, argues with her, and pulls a knife on Zahara. Aaliyah starts coming at Zahara with the knife. In self-defense Zahara tries to wrestle with her mother, and in the conflict, Aaliyah ends up going over the edge. What a sad, sad story for Zahara. ...If that's what happened. But, given what we've seen, I'm starting to wonder if that really was self-defense. Shut up! Brian certainly thought it wasn't. His project pointed out various pieces of the story that seemed odd. Certainly, Aaliyah was far from blameless, she definitely tracked down her extranged daughter with a grudge. But was Olympian Zahara really so intimidated by a frail woman with a knife that she had to kill her own mother? She was an Olympian, she did advertising, and she did much, much more. She had many friends in PR who would have an interest in spinning the story favorably for Zahara. People who wouldn't want the public considering if Zahara might've had her own grudge against Aaliyah. If murder maybe wasn't the only option for Zahara, but a choice made. Mouse, we should go. What? Tell me, Zahara, didn't you want to kill your mother? SHUT UP! You did, didn't you. Why wouldn't you? She was a monster. And... There was one strangely unrelated article in the mix. Zahara...[BGM: Silence]  ...whatever happened to your brother? SHUT UP!!*crack!* [BGM: Constriction]  Tiger had grabbed the nearby metal pipe and struck Snake across the head. Mouse, we gotta run, NOW!Ox grabbed my arm and started running away. Bunny came with us. As I was pulled away, I saw a single-minded Tiger beating a dazed Snake again, and again, and again with the pipe. He would almost certainly be dead in a few moments. Mix. fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Mar 22, 2023 |
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Mar 22, 2023 01:58
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tfw you try to cause chaos to distract people enough so you can grab a weapon when no one's watching but instead end up getting your rear end beat
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Mar 22, 2023 01:59
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"Ah, so it's been revealed that person has just gotten angry enough to kill a person, even when it wasn't necessary for self-defense? And that this isn't their first time killing someone out of anger? I think I'll deliberately try to provoke them into a blind rage while I'm standing right next to them." Keep on making those big-brain moves, Snake.
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Mar 22, 2023 02:29
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To be fair he's the second traitor personality so he has a reason for doing it.
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Mar 22, 2023 02:34
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Mix. posted:
It looks like you've got the wrong portrait here, unless she's started talking about herself in the third person.
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Mar 22, 2023 02:35
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Snake being repeatedly hoist by his own petard is one of the best parts of the game 
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Mar 22, 2023 02:35
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 amusing portrait mixup e:fb
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Mar 22, 2023 02:36
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 fixed
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Mar 22, 2023 02:37
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PepperedMoth posted:"Ah, so it's been revealed that person has just gotten angry enough to kill a person, even when it wasn't necessary for self-defense? And that this isn't their first time killing someone out of anger? I think I'll deliberately try to provoke them into a blind rage while I'm standing right next to them." Junpei posted:To be fair he's the second traitor personality so he has a reason for doing it. Well if he wanted to nobly sacrifice himself for the good of the group, he should've just spoken up before, jeez!
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Mar 22, 2023 02:53
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Oh dear. Tiger is going to go crazy and go on a mass murder spree, huh?  Horse! Save them all! You're stronger than Tiger!
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Mar 22, 2023 03:35
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You know what I just realized? One reason Tiger could never bring up Dragon being the traitor as self-defense on her own... is because she can't read other people's tablets. She would have no way of checking other people's personalities. Brian essentially stacked the deck against Tiger with the traitor system.
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Mar 22, 2023 04:08
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The mystery isn't the fairest thing here, but it's nice to see super physics explain Tiger's actions. She was always good at dart throwing... Really not sure what Snake's angle is here, but maybe he wants everyone to go down with the ship. I hope Tiger calms down and that we can prove Snake is the other traitor. If not, we'll have to rely on Sheep to snipe her or for Horse to tank everything. As a last resort, we can get Monkey to hypnotize her with the "chaos and darkness of this race".
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Mar 22, 2023 04:41
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No see guys it's okay, Tiger will just stay there and guard the weapons like she's supposed to. Just don't go near her and everyone will be fine. (Mouse and Ox still haven't given their Trinket to Tiger if I remember right, Bunny said he was the last one to give her one and the murder occurred while they were on their way back to her. So possible race shenanigans?)
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Mar 22, 2023 04:46
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Honestly Snake committed a double gently caress up: his intention was probably also try to break the trust of the others on Tiger by painting her as a cold blooded murderer... but like, all this points out for now is that Tiger has massive anger issues probably stemmed from, you know, growing up trapped in a goddamn basement. Granted, her possible victims wil not think otherwise. Obv irl murder is bad, but of a character in fiction kills their abusive parent it's not like I'm gonna think they're evil for that. (Now watch as the game explains Tiger is actually an assassin for hire besides being an Olympic )
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Mar 22, 2023 09:13
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Snake is the epitome of that Im a genius! OH NO! meme. (Thisun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKMzMZWRKVc)
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Mar 22, 2023 09:25
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BassMug posted:Snake is the epitome of that Im a genius! OH NO! meme. thank you for inspiring this quick and dirty attempt 
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Mar 22, 2023 13:33
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This route is such a roller coaster ride. And the backstory dump flows so much better this time
CremePudding fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Mar 22, 2023 |
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Mar 22, 2023 14:44
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Well, I do not feel bad about getting that wrong; I'm having trouble visualizing the trick with a sniper rifle. Either I'm missing something or Dragon brought an enormous pipe if Tiger managed to shoot it and it could spin and hit her. Also to those sympathizing with Tiger, fair, but I also suspect that the answer to Snake's last question isn't "he's living in peace being supported by his doting sister." But hey, at least Horse is still alive thus far, so we might have someone who can stop her (assuming he doesn't get chumped before he can pull out his mask). Edit: I'm also wondering if picking Dragon to guard is her route or just a comical early bad end.
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Mar 22, 2023 14:49
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biosterous posted:thank you for inspiring this quick and dirty attempt
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Mar 22, 2023 18:26
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It'd be funny if someone manages to check Snake's tablet, then it ends peacefully with everybody going "well, guess that worked out. Good job, Tiger?"
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Mar 23, 2023 01:22
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ZCKaiser posted:Well, I do not feel bad about getting that wrong; I'm having trouble visualizing the trick with a sniper rifle. Either I'm missing something or Dragon brought an enormous pipe if Tiger managed to shoot it and it could spin and hit her. It would be funny if Horse is what saves us considering that he's been mildly antagonistic in routes more often than not, like the only routes where he doesn't oppose Mouse and/or the group in some way or another is Snake's where he basically does nothing, Rooster's where he just dies, and sorta Bunny's where he just dies at the end.
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Mar 23, 2023 01:25
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ZCKaiser posted:Well, I do not feel bad about getting that wrong; I'm having trouble visualizing the trick with a sniper rifle. Either I'm missing something or Dragon brought an enormous pipe if Tiger managed to shoot it and it could spin and hit her. it's a little funky to visualize if you assume she's using the sniper rifle like normal (i.e. looking through the scope), but you have to think about the location of the pipe (laying on the table) and tiger's head wound (the back left of her head); basically, she's actually holding the sniper rifle so it's pointed to her left (at the one end of the pipe), so the bullet hits it, the pipe spins and clonks her in the back of the head, she falls over while letting go of the rifle and the pipe rolls off the table to land on the floor near her. theoretically she couldve used any firearm to do it, she probably just grabbed the sniper rifle bc it's the weirdest to visualize
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Mar 23, 2023 01:31
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Kind of funny how the eye(s) of the Tiger are a major plot point.  Guess it's time for the thrill of the fight!
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Mar 23, 2023 01:33
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Mix. posted:it's a little funky to visualize if you assume she's using the sniper rifle like normal (i.e. looking through the scope), but you have to think about the location of the pipe (laying on the table) and tiger's head wound (the back left of her head); basically, she's actually holding the sniper rifle so it's pointed to her left (at the one end of the pipe), so the bullet hits it, the pipe spins and clonks her in the back of the head, she falls over while letting go of the rifle and the pipe rolls off the table to land on the floor near her. I think adding the pen just makes it sound even wonkier and impractical. I guess they added it as a 'clue' to the pipe trick but in reality I imagine someone trying to do that trick would try to lean the pipe against a wall or something rather than risk it on something as thin as a pen. I guess it's another testament to Tiger's strength that she could jam the pen in deep enough that it wouldn't just fall over when the pipe was hit. The whole set-up isn't quite 'Horse route' levels of disbelief regarding physics, but it is stretching it a little bit.
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Mar 23, 2023 02:51
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 content warning: discussion of child neglect/abuse, vague suicidal ideation [BGM: Constriction]  Ox stopped us in a nearby bathroom. Holy poo poo! What was that about?! I don't know. What was Snake doing, bringing all that poo poo up to that psycho? It's like he was trying to get Tiger to snap! Was everything he said true? Most likely. It's very well possible that Tiger has killed in the past, and we're now simply dealing with an easily angered murderer. What are we going to do now? None of us can take down Tiger. Take down? All the weapons are in the other room, the room she's closest to. The only one who might stand a chance would be Horse, but who knows where he's at now. But we have to do something about her! Something about her? What are you two talking about? We need to come to an understanding. 'Come to an understanding'? She just clobbered the poo poo out of Snake for basically nothing! She's too dangerous. She can't be normally dealt with. It'd be preferable if we could come to an understanding, but I don't find that too likely an outcome.  At this point, I think it likely she's realized that she's in for a penny, in for a pound. Once she calms down, it's very possible that she'll go into the weapons closet, grab two pistols, and start killing everyone. If she can do that, it'll be easy to escape the race. And if she's the only survivor, she'll have plenty of time and leeway in spinning a narrative where she's done nothing wrong. But wouldn't it be better if we worked together with her and all survived? You want to work with her? You're right, it'd be better, but it's not likely. Look, I'll go out there. I've got experience as a policeman with talking to people with criminal tendencies in tense situations. I should be able to calm her down. Then I can handle it. No, let me. I've talked with Tiger a lot, and I know I can come to an understanding with her. ...*sigh* This is probably a mistake but... Mouse, I want you to go instead of Bunny. What? Look. Mouse has proven herself to be consistently on the ball. I know it's really dangerous, but I trust her. If she says she should be the one to go and talk Tiger down, she should be the one. I don't like that. Well too bad, that's what I'm saying. Do you want to waste any further time and argue about it? Tch. Just go, Mouse. I won't fail you! You better not.With those encouraging(?) words backing me up, I strode back to the lobby. If I was totally honest with myself, there was a large part of me that was terrified of Tiger. She was in an absolutely enraged state, and she already proved herself to be willing to kill in fits of anger. But... She was the core of our team. Always optimistic, always smiling. I couldn't believe that she was an evil person. She didn't deserve to die. She wasn't blameless, far from it. But the true villain here was Brian. I couldn't forget that. [BGM: That Pesky Rodent]  When I turned the corner, she was just staring at Snake's body, sweating. I averted my eyes from Snake. I didn't need to see too much of that to know there was no saving him. Tiger!
Tiger, please, calm down. We can talk this out. Talk this out? You think things can go back to normal after this? They have to! I don't want anyone to die! That's nice, but two people already have! Sure, but that doesn't mean more people should! I bet if you come peacefully, I can convince the group to forgive you. This can all be like it never even happened. You really want that? Yes. Trust me!
I don't doubt you, Mouse. But Snake was right! I'm a murderer. Things can't just end peacefully now. Why not? Because bad people don't get to just walk away scot-free![BGM: Weak Pig]  When Dragon started attacking me, I just... I felt so betrayed by her! It was so cowardly that she'd try to attack me from behind like that, when I trusted her! We worked together, she told us about her life back in the gymnasium, and then she turns on the group? And she didn't even try to fight me, she tried to brain me when I wasn't looking! How could I forgive that? I was initially just going to incapacitate her. But when she poked at my eyes, it just hurt so drat much! I didn't even know what happened. Next thing I knew, I was standing over her body. Snake was right. I'm a murderer by nature. The exact same blacking out thing happened when I started getting angry at him. And my mother... Snake was just getting in your head. It was probably a lot scarier there, and you really were just defending yourself. That's what I told myself. But no, that was murder too. If I wanted to, I could've taken her non-lethally. But she was a monster. If it wasn't for her, Jaymin wouldn't have died! Jaymin. Let me guess your twin brother? You don't know how much he got me through childhood. I used to be way more gloomy. He was such a positive kid. He took everything that happened to us as a blessing. He already had one once-in-a-lifetime experience, so why stop there? If he had 100, his life would be worth 100 times more. Always looking for new opportunities to do incredible things. But we were young, we were playing on a frozen lake, we didn't know better. But if our eyes weren't ruined by that woman, we would've seen the cracks! He would've lived! So that's why you pushed her over. I didn't mean to push her over. But I let her fall. That's not the same. It is. Since Jaymin's death, I've tried to pick up the slack and fulfill both our 100 experience quotas. In doing so, I've always been pretty impulsive. It's helpful a lot in life, just going with what you want. It led to plenty of once-in-a-lifetime experiences. But I think... I'm afraid that it's come with a cost. Lately, I don't have any control over my emotions. My emotions have control over me. When I want to do something, I just do it. It's impulsive, it's not like it's something I can control. ...And because of that, I've killed two people. I'm not even that concerned that I wasn't able to control my emotions enough to not kill them. It's the fact that murder was my impulse that gets to me.Tiger hung her head down, the life drained from her. At some point during our conversation, Tiger's desire had shifted from wanting to survive to wanting to die. I wasn't going to go along with that. Tiger. If you really feel all that way, then help us all escape. Then, when you get out of here, get better. Get... better? Snake and Dragon were both incredibly pragmatic people. I'm sure if they were here, they'd prefer it if the rest of us got out alive, and you ended up going on to do good in the world. ...They'd certainly like it more than you pointlessly dying.
So what do you say? Join me, and we'll just talk to everyone. Does that sound good?
Okay.[BGM: Bullfighter]  I ended up bringing Tiger in peacefully. Eventually, the entire group met up, and we had a big discussion in the cafeteria. There was a lot of debate about what should happen next. Eventually, everyone settled on having everybody cross the finish line as a group. Tiger's murders would be framed in the best possible light, but would still be reported to the police. Many were unhappy with this agreement for one reason or another, but it's what we settled on. After that, we were faced with a minor miracle. We checked Snake's tablet, and it turned out he had the 'ambitious' personality. To turn a phrase from Snake himself, it made me feel better about the whole thing. I still mourned his death... but, effectively speaking, the only victims were ones who couldn't survive anyway. Through a mix of guiding factors and sheer coincidence, Tiger hadn't decreased the net people who'd survive the race by a one. ...This would sound particularly blackhearted to say aloud, but it actually ended up a help. With the threat of traitors gone, the group could completely focus the search on Minor Trinkets. Eventually, we found 10 of them, and began using them to advance as a group. From there, there wasn't much to do but wait.   But man, are we lucky that the traitors got offed like that. Gee Tiger, you sure know how to pick 'em.
 Woof, tough crowd. You will be going to anger management when we get out, correct? In the off chance I don't get sent to jail for life, yes, I promise I will. Actually, I don't think prison is necessarily in the cards for you. Snake laid it on pretty thick there, but the truth of the matter is we're in pretty uncharted territory here. There are a number of factors I could think of bringing up that would strengthen your case. In fact, if you claimed you had reasonable suspicion that Snake and Dragon were their respective personalities and planned to commit violence, you could get away with it scot-free. But that's not what happened. It might've been. It'd be hard to disprove, and that's usually what matters in court. Mouse, you said you were going to become a defense attorney? You should know this stuff already. I actually plan to be a principled defense attorney. Hmph. I only know a handful of those, and they're pretty poo poo at their jobs. Anyways, all I'm saying is that if I were the prosecutor on this, I wouldn't feel too confident in this case. At the bare minimum, you could probably get a plea deal for an amount of years you could count on one hand.
 I suppose the real reason Brian brought you here was the whole incident with your mother, then? I mean, obviously it's rooted in the fact that you played a part in the trial, but I guess that backstory was why he felt moral justification in sending you here. ...Maybe. I'm not sure if that's it, though. Why wouldn't it be? Is there a different reason it could be? ...If I'm laying all the cards out on the table, I might as well come clean about my testimony. I never lied. I would never lie, let me be clear. But... I might not have gotten as clear a look at the murder weapon in his back pocket as I initially led the court to believe. What?! Don't get me wrong, it definitely looked like the weapon! But it might not have been it. Then why did you testify so certainly that it was? Look, the cops got all up in my face about it, they really wanted me to say I had seen it. They were saying that if I couldn't positively identify that, this guy who was obviously the killer might get away. Giving the definitive testimony to lock up a slimy killer escaping justice sounded pretty once-in-a-lifetime to me, so I agreed. Wow. I'm starting to sympathize with Brian. I didn't lie, I exaggerated. And it's not like it matters! He was still clearly guilty. I suppose that's correct. Even without that one testimony, the mountain of evidence was pretty conclusive. All you did was help the courts tighten the noose one notch closer.
[BGM: Silence]  Something felt off about what Tiger had told me. But I didn't have time to think about it. Soon, the round ended, and we all crossed the finish line. Our collars came off, and we escaped the school. In the end, myself, Ox, Tiger, Bunny, Sheep, Horse, Rooster, Monkey, Dog, and Pig escaped alive.  [Ending 4 of Spades]  If nothing is found in the first three rounds but weapons and Trinkets, Dragon will be assigned a role that forces her to act. However, the most likely situation is that Tiger ends up guarding the weapons. Dragon will definitely try to strike Tiger down, and Tiger will definitely kill her in retaliation. But Tiger will try to stop that from coming out, and complicate things further. If Mouse manages to gain her trust while also being competent enough to figure things out, she should be able to settle things peacefully before it devolves too much. In that scenario, likely the only victims will be Dragon and Snake. An almost flawless victory. Theoretically ideal. However, this scenario is highly unstable. Let's find a more solid path to walk.
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Mar 23, 2023 23:16
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It almost looks like Snake intentionally got himself killed here.
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Mar 23, 2023 23:25
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Guys, I'm starting to think Ox miiiight be a corrupt prosecutor. Just maybe. Also, while Tiger is pitiable if she didn't lie, there's still the "murder client" stuff from Mouse's route thinking about it.
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Mar 23, 2023 23:35
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