(Thread IKs:
weg, Toxic Mental)
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Lord Stimperor posted:What is the general consensus regarding the Chinese-Russian relationship in this war? Any indications as to what degree China will enable Russia? I understand there was a summit recently but I am absolutely not caught up with the news for personal reasons. Russia will become a resource colony for China and a captive market for Chinese exports due to all the sanctions. Basically a junior partner.
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Mar 26, 2023 18:08
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| # ? May 30, 2024 07:46 |
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One sad lesson of this war is to never ever agree to nuclear disarmament under any circumstances. My school had a politics day when I was like 17 and I remember being scoffed at by (IIRC) a speaker from the local Greens over the nuclear deterrent - 'do you really think anyone would ever try to invade us?' Strategic Tea fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Mar 26, 2023 |
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Mar 26, 2023 18:08
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Strategic Tea posted:One sad lesson of this war is to never ever agree to nuclear disarmament under any circumstances. I am told that this is Different and that obviously Russia would never try to invade any countries beyond Ukraine and thinking otherwise is being deliberately obtuse. Mostly from the same people that said as of February last year obviously Russia would never try to invade Ukraine more broadly.
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Mar 26, 2023 18:14
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I don't want bad things to happen, so therefore they cannot, and thinking otherwise is folly.
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Mar 26, 2023 18:17
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the holy poopacy posted:I am told that this is Different and that obviously Russia would never try to invade any countries beyond Ukraine and thinking otherwise is being deliberately obtuse. *offer doesn't apply to Moldova, sorry
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Mar 26, 2023 18:20
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NATO is cheating as it's essentially the promise of US nukes
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Mar 26, 2023 18:27
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Strategic Tea posted:One sad lesson of this war is to never ever agree to nuclear disarmament under any circumstances. Are you basing this on the myth that the USA made a security guarantee to Ukraine in the Budapest Memorandum?
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Mar 26, 2023 18:31
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mobby_6kl posted:They're right in that everyone else is already in NATO and/or EU * Moldova is likely to he absorbed into Romania and become a member of both
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Mar 26, 2023 18:32
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https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1640036537436889088
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Mar 26, 2023 18:34
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the holy poopacy posted:Mostly from the same people that said as of February last year obviously Russia would never try to invade Ukraine more broadly. I wonder why these kinds of people never realize they're on a massive streak of entirely wrong predictions and don't step back to reevaluate things
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Mar 26, 2023 18:34
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spankmeister posted:Moldova is likely to he absorbed into Romania and become a member of both Name changed to Greater Transnistria. 
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Mar 26, 2023 18:35
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Deki posted:I wonder why these kinds of people never realize they're on a massive streak of entirely wrong predictions and don't step back to reevaluate things I think many of them do realize it, but they're not saying these things to inform anyone with accurate predictions but rather to influence public opinion in favor of the side they've chosen or simply saving face. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Mar 26, 2023 |
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Mar 26, 2023 18:45
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Lmao, is that really James Vasquez? https://twitter.com/FightHaven/status/1639975487572414465?s=20
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Mar 26, 2023 18:54
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mobby_6kl posted:EU membership comes with mutual defense provisions. Seems like that would be the most straightforward way of making the invasion isn't repeated without immediately giving the various tankies the "but NATO expansion Well yes and no. The EU membership defense provisions are very vague and can mean absolutely nothing useful, compared to being a member of NATO. The wording of the text means that every member has to provide something; it can be five armored divisions, but it can be a container of pre-owned skiis, since there is no definition of what it needs to be and Macron might get one of his "Putin needs a dignified out"-moments when the decision needs to be made. Or Germany does that "lets stall out the process and see if the Russians just run them over, so that an angry letter will suffice" act they did with Ukraine. Its not a coincident that Finland and Sweden, previously only covered by the EU defense promises decided to go for full NATO membership. UK isn't part of EU anymore, France and Germany made themselves look untrustworthy partners for national security by dragging their feet on an obvious security concern. Against Russia, you definitely need something better than that vague "EU security guarantee", but if that's the best you can get short-term, then that's the one you need to get.
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Mar 26, 2023 19:05
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" talking point. It's also already in progress:
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Tiny Timbs posted:fwiw one of the people doing this was permabanned for buying themselves death threat and transphobic avatars and trying to pin it on other people drat really expected the person making fun of the holodomor to be better than this. Who would have thought that a genocide denier would also stoop so low as to buy themselves mean avatars and make up liest to own their posting enemies
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Mar 26, 2023 19:29
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Pathetic ukonazi propaganda. This old lady probably isn't even sad! https://youtu.be/GzELCDtufUA
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Mar 26, 2023 19:30
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nato rules! suck my dick!
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Mar 26, 2023 19:34
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Also, as has been repeatedly pointed out. In no real sense did Ukraine ever have Nuclear weapons. Yes, they were based on their territory. Under Russian officers, guarded by Russia loyal troops, with the permissive action links to fire them only known to Russia.
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Mar 26, 2023 19:35
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Sure, but now that they put nukes in Belarus, there should be no problem stationing some in Ukraine too, IMO
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Mar 26, 2023 19:37
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alcatraz gently caress boy posted:nato rules! suck my dick! 
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Mar 26, 2023 19:42
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mobby_6kl posted:Sure, but now that they put nukes in Belarus, there should be no problem stationing some in Ukraine too, IMO I think somebody already mentioned it, but the best part of all the BUT NATO COULD PUT NOOOKS FURTHER EAST nonsense w/r/t Ukraine having good relations with or joining NATO is that Russia already stations nukes in Kaliningrad. Right in the middle of a bunch of NATO states. For no practical reason, just to dickwave.
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Mar 26, 2023 19:45
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These guys best be planning to move to a windowless bungalow at the bottom of a valley real soon.
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Mar 26, 2023 20:02
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Power Khan posted:Lmao, is that really James Vasquez? I don't know if it's him, but that video is pretty old iirc. I saw it (saying it was Vasquez) when he started making noise on twitter at the beginning of the war so it must been recorded pre war (unless the idiot did it again which wouldn't surprise me).
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Mar 26, 2023 20:04
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spankmeister posted:Moldova is likely to he absorbed into Romania and become a member of both I doubt this. A lot of people expected that would happen when the Soviet Union broke up. Seems unlikely that it would happen after more than 30 years of independence if it didn't then.
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Mar 26, 2023 20:05
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Moldova did just change their official language back to Romanian from Moldovian, as the Moldovian language was basically invented by the Soviet occupiers. Either way, as long as their weird Russian-libertarian breakaway region exists (which Russia was trying to connect to by taking Odessa), nobody is going to want to touch them.
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Mar 26, 2023 20:13
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EasilyConfused posted:I doubt this. A lot of people expected that would happen when the Soviet Union broke up. Seems unlikely that it would happen after more than 30 years of independence if it didn't then.
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Mar 26, 2023 20:29
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HonorableTB posted:The only thing that comes close to Brexit in terms of national self ownage is the US electing Donald J Trump russia failing to leverage their puppet trump is a self own in itself so it all comes back to russia
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Mar 26, 2023 20:46
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Deptfordx posted:Also, as has been repeatedly pointed out. Not having a bunch of launch or pal codes is irrelevant. It wouldn't have taken more then a month or two to completely replace the C&C if they'd wanted to spend a bunch of money becoming a nuclear power.
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Mar 26, 2023 20:49
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RDM posted:I mean this is entirely wrong. The Soviet troops guarding them were... no longer Soviet, and the new Ukrainian government found itself in physical possession of a shitload of warheads. And...Quite possibly the US would have handed them engineers or a new C&C system to ensure their safeness. Aswell as getting a hold of lots of Soviet engineering. WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Mar 26, 2023 |
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Mar 26, 2023 20:55
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The US wouldn't have helped Ukraine become a nuclear pariah. Especially not in the midst of the largest geopolitical reconfiguration in half a century, when Americans were suddenly playing politics in Russia.
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Mar 26, 2023 21:08
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NTRabbit posted:Parade season is coming up, that's probably what they're for. marching band: "Wait a minute. This isn't Red Square!" general: "nyet, it was a parade to Ukraine!"
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Mar 26, 2023 21:19
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steinrokkan posted:The US wouldn't have helped Ukraine become a nuclear pariah. Especially not in the midst of the largest geopolitical reconfiguration in half a century, when Americans were suddenly playing politics in Russia. Is Pakistan a nuclear Pariah? Israel? North Korea is pretty much the only example and they were already solidly a pariah state before possession of nuclear weapons. They weren't an NPT signatory at the time, so there was really no treaty restricting them from having the nukes they inherited (and had everything but the strictest definition of control over) and, as you say, nobody was looking to make a bunch of waves in the wake of the USSR's dissolution. It would have been a fantastic time for all parties involved to look the other way and find reasons to move on. But yeah, I agree, the US would not have directly assisted with the modification of Soviet nukes on Ukraine's behalf.
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Mar 26, 2023 21:21
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:And...Quite possibly the US would have handed them engineers or a new C&C system to ensure their safeness. Aswell as getting a hold of lots of Soviet engineering. Uh, that's pretty much the opposite of US policy at the time, which was focused on avoiding the dangers of a nuclear civil war.
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Mar 26, 2023 21:21
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Turrurrurrurrrrrrr posted:Russian Telegram Propaganda on Putin's television appearance: It's on! they are just out of frame, radiating too
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Mar 26, 2023 21:22
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https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1640082838241304577 Seems Rustam Muradov got sacked.
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Mar 26, 2023 21:22
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This is like arguing the US should have intervened when Nazi Germany invaded France. It doesn't matter if that kind of intervention would have been beneficial in retrospect, it wasn't a possibility at the time. Edit: Referring to Ukraine nukes chat if that wasn't obvious
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Mar 26, 2023 21:23
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EasilyConfused posted:This is like arguing the US should have intervened when Nazi Germany invaded France. It doesn't matter if that kind of intervention would have been beneficial in retrospect, it wasn't a possibility at the time. Oh, I agree, it'd never have happened. This would have to be a parallel universe where everyone involved was operating under entirely different reasoning or gazing into crystal balls.
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Mar 26, 2023 21:28
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EasilyConfused posted:This is like arguing the US should have intervened when Nazi Germany invaded France. It doesn't matter if that kind of intervention would have been beneficial in retrospect, it wasn't a possibility at the time.
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Mar 26, 2023 21:31
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RDM posted:I don't think that's true, it was absolutely possible for Ukraine to keep their nukes. They chose not to for a bunch of good reasons. They could have chosen differently. They didn't need western help to maintain or modify weapons, and iirc it was mostly western economic incentives that got them to agree to the Budapest Memorandum. I'm referring to the idea of the US assisting them in keeping the nukes. Whether Ukrainian leadership ever seriously considered keeping the nukes I don't know, but I'm skeptical given their disastrous economic conditions.
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Mar 26, 2023 21:34
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| # ? May 30, 2024 07:46 |
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EasilyConfused posted:I'm referring to the idea of the US assisting them in keeping the nukes. It definitely wasn't a thing that had to happen, it could have gone the other way. Wouldn't be the first time a government chose weapons over economic development.
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Mar 26, 2023 21:37
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