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Veil is another card in a long line of "let's give green every effect in the game" bullshit that needs to be heavily pulled back on imo The only color allowed to be that good is Blue.
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Mar 27, 2023 02:46
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Tom Clancy is Dead posted:Veil would probably be fine if it was Scry 2 instead of cantrip. Fair enough, I forgot about Historic. I stand by it being a safe-ish unban in Pioneer.
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Mar 27, 2023 02:50
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Tism the Dragon Tickler posted:Veil is another card in a long line of "let's give green every effect in the game" bullshit that needs to be heavily pulled back on imo Literally every part of the card is in pie for green and has been for a long rear end time.
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Mar 27, 2023 02:50
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fadam posted:Literally every part of the card is in pie for green and has been for a long rear end time. At inefficient rates, yes. That type of effect being at an actually playable cost/efficiency is out of pie for green.
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Mar 27, 2023 02:52
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Tism the Dragon Tickler posted:At inefficient rates, yes. Right, and fair enough if you disagree, but I like when WotC revisits cards that missed the mark the first time (Autumn's Veil) and makes them playable.
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Mar 27, 2023 02:53
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fadam posted:Right, and fair enough if you disagree, but I like when WotC revisits cards that missed the mark the first time (Autumn's Veil) and makes them playable. Sure but it's the same problem as Swords to Plowshares, which is a color pie break for white because it's so efficient. And Veil came out around the same time as green was getting lots of other ridiculously good cards that it had never seen comparable effects to before.
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Mar 27, 2023 02:54
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Tism the Dragon Tickler posted:Sure but it's the same problem as Swords to Plowshares, which is a color pie break for white because it's so efficient. And Veil came out around the same time as green was getting lots of other ridiculously good cards that it had never seen comparable effects to before. It might be above rate, but STP absolutely isn't a colour pie break. I do agree with your second point, Green was a powerhouse in that Standard and I think the proliferation of extremely powerful cards in a short period of time skewed people's interpretations. I think if VoS came out like two years earlier or two years later it'd be in Pioneer.
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Mar 27, 2023 02:57
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Unrelated, but thread favourite Brian Coval just took down another CEDH tournament lol: https://twitter.com/BoshNRoll/status/1640103982537359362?s=20 If big-ish money tournaments keep happening it'd be cool to see more 60-card grinder guys start trying to get in on things while the competition is softer.
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Mar 27, 2023 02:59
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Wizards of the Coast has explicitly stated that STP (and mentor of the meek was another example) are color pie breaks because they do something that their color is supposed to be secondary or tertiary at but at a better rate than the color which is supposed to have those effects as primary in the pie. Veil does the same thing, as there is no blue counterspell that is a 2-for-1 at one mana.
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Mar 27, 2023 03:01
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Tism the Dragon Tickler posted:Wizards of the Coast has explicitly stated that STP (and mentor of the meek was another example) are color pie breaks because they do something that their color is supposed to be secondary or tertiary at but at a better rate than the color which is supposed to have those effects as primary in the pie. Veil does the same thing, as there is no blue counterspell that is a 2-for-1 at one mana. not true, disrupt
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Mar 27, 2023 03:05
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fadam posted:Right, and fair enough if you disagree, but I like when WotC revisits cards that missed the mark the first time (Autumn's Veil) and makes them playable. I think Veil shows that the ideas separating "unplayable in any way" "playable" and "singularly format warping" are hard to define
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Mar 27, 2023 03:07
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Tism the Dragon Tickler posted:Wizards of the Coast has explicitly stated that STP (and mentor of the meek was another example) are color pie breaks because they do something that their color is supposed to be secondary or tertiary at but at a better rate than the color which is supposed to have those effects as primary in the pie. Veil does the same thing, as there is no blue counterspell that is a 2-for-1 at one mana. Can you show me where they said that? That's news for me, and it seems a bit odd because they printed one and zero mana W removal spells within the past few years. Mentor of the Meek being a break makes more sense because White isn't supposed to straight up draw more than one card a turn now, and for a while they could only cantrip iirc. If a one mana removal spell is out-of-pie for white, where is it in pie? GoutPatrol posted:I think Veil shows that the ideas separating "unplayable in any way" "playable" and "singularly format warping" are pretty close Fair enough, but I'm not convinced Veil is warping/warped anything. fadam fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Mar 27, 2023 |
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Mar 27, 2023 03:08
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The out of pie part isn't just the cost, it's the lack of actual drawback combined with the cost. White isn't supposed to get unconditional removal without a significant drawback unless it's more expensive than a roughly equivalent effect in black. I couldn't find the article I read about it with a quick search but I did find a few blogatog answers https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/181233080203/would-it-be-possible-for-swords-to-plowshares-to https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/178714466363/if-swords-to-plowshares-is-too-good-for-standard
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Mar 27, 2023 03:17
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Tism the Dragon Tickler posted:The out of pie part isn't just the cost, it's the lack of actual drawback combined with the cost. White isn't supposed to get unconditional removal without a significant drawback unless it's more expensive than a roughly equivalent effect in black. You're right, the second link there is pretty clear that the efficiency makes it out of pie. What colour should StP be in then, ignoring power level? I still think it should be white based on this colour pie breakdown Maro posted a few years ago and looking at its contemporaries like Solitude and the new W exile spell from BRO: https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/making-magic/mechanical-color-pie-2021 But I guess maybe black makes more sense? All that being said, I'm not sure I agree that Veil of Summer's cantrip puts it either being out-of-pie, or even outrageously above rate. fadam fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Mar 27, 2023 |
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Mar 27, 2023 03:22
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If a color did it in Alpha it's not a color pie break. I don't make the rules.
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Mar 27, 2023 03:46
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Wittgen posted:I think we can all agree that blue deserves force spike that cantrips. It's just fair. 
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Mar 27, 2023 04:05
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Also my super secret tech at my local metagame growing up:  (Redirecting is effectively a 2-for-1 a lot of the time, shut up)
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Mar 27, 2023 04:47
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Hell yes. They should have put this in BRO. Urza and Teferi back together.
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Mar 27, 2023 04:47
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the disrupt version from weatherlight... i never understood why the lady was in a cage in that version.. like its some bird cage magic trick? or?
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Mar 27, 2023 05:17
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Wicker Man cosplay
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Mar 27, 2023 05:24
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Mar 27, 2023 05:32
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Strong Sauce posted:the disrupt version from weatherlight... i never understood why the lady was in a cage in that version.. like its some bird cage magic trick? or?
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Mar 27, 2023 05:37
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Kar, or as some say, Karn... do you hear our prayers?
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Mar 27, 2023 06:06
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it's not wickerman cosplay if there's no bees and if the flavor text isn't, "no not the bees"
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Mar 27, 2023 07:47
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Wait, is there some assertion that Autumn's Veil, a card that was in the World Championship deck, a card that was in the 1st and 2nd place decks (and another, completely different deck in the Top 8) of Pro Tour Dark Ascension, was stone cold unplayable?
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Mar 27, 2023 07:58
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Teferi better show up wearing his stupid hat in MOM
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Mar 27, 2023 08:17
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The drawback on stp is the life gain.LifeLynx posted:If a color did it in Alpha it's not a color pie break. I don't make the rules. 100% lol
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Mar 27, 2023 08:36
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Bring back blue burn spells and black and green enchantments that counter each other's poo poo Edit: it's actually a flavor fail that Psionic Blast wasn't in the mind flayers themed precon Silhouette fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Mar 27, 2023 |
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Mar 27, 2023 17:13
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Looks like everything's coming up Hope today. Nahiri goes around loving up elementals and Zendikar and goes to some special place to pour her feelings into reshaping Zendikar, kinda sounds almost like pouring out a lot of the anguish that fuels a Phyrexian mindset, then starts pouring her essence or whatever into it. Some characters I don't know and an angel do a flashbangs or something and knock Nahiri out of her conversion for just long enough for all the forces she's loving with the snap crackle pop, and the skyclave comes tumbling down. Nahiri is ??? Status and I reckon she'll be back in some weird new form some day. If it's not touched on in this set or aftermath probably just a potential seed they can revisit someday if they want to. Capenna story was fun, I like artists and magical art, hell yeah. I also all these gangsters with Halo around, smuggling angel juice. Kinda wanna go back and read Capenna stories now, think I'd like em. Whole setting is cool. Somehow I don't think Atraxa was straight up killed by rubble but pretty poetic way to go if she does. How does time work on Magic planes? Is the arrow of time real and does it work the same.on each plane? Or is 3 days on some planes just a couple hours on another? Both stories seemed to mention a period of days and I'm realizing not sure how long all of these stories have been taking or which are concurrent. Most important is Tree stuff, makes most sense for the stories ending in semi unresolved places might be stuff occurring in the leadup to the big tree hug.
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Mar 27, 2023 17:24
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mandatory lesbian posted:Red green and white players feel nothing from veil, and those are the colors purest of heart. Open ur eyes and see the divinity of creation
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Mar 27, 2023 17:32
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Falco Spara and Ziatora survived the assassination attempts, and now there are angels in suits with bronx accents going off through the the portals to save other worlds now that the Brokers have detonated a massive Halo bomb on top of a pinned/crushed Atraxa and ended the war on the plane. (Since there is just a post apocalyptic wasteland outside that even the invasion tree was apparently not interested in.) I like how the Riveteers had some of the spotlight in the capenna scenes. Evacuating people and cutting open escape routes, etc. Sylvian Wastes fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Mar 27, 2023 |
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Mar 27, 2023 18:02
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Speaking of the street artist Errant. What is the intended use case for that card? Was there any card in SNC limited that could even make use of her ability? Edit:Spent one second searching. Causality.
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Mar 27, 2023 18:05
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She can target spells copied from Casualty couldn't she?
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Mar 27, 2023 18:07
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Tism the Dragon Tickler posted:Wizards of the Coast has explicitly stated that STP (and mentor of the meek was another example) are color pie breaks because they do something that their color is supposed to be secondary or tertiary at but at a better rate than the color which is supposed to have those effects as primary in the pie. Veil does the same thing, as there is no blue counterspell that is a 2-for-1 at one mana. Yeah, Swords should have cost 1W or WW. Fateful Absence is 1W and doesn't feel like a color pie break at all
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Mar 27, 2023 18:14
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Is path considered a colour pie break as well then? Not accusatory, genuinely curious
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Mar 27, 2023 18:17
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ilmucche posted:Is path considered a colour pie break as well then? Not accusatory, genuinely curious No because the drawback is an actual drawback and therefore it's not automatically better than all equivalent creature removal in black.
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Mar 27, 2023 18:21
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Khanstant posted:How does time work on Magic planes? Is the arrow of time real and does it work the same.on each plane? Or is 3 days on some planes just a couple hours on another?. Each plane has its own timeframe and the amount of time that passes is locked to only that plane, so yes a week on one plane could be a day on another etc. We just usually don't have to worry about time passing differently since this is like the first time we've had a story encompassing so many planes in a single set rather than a progression of a story across multiple planes and sets
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Mar 27, 2023 18:28
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With Nahiri, general Tazri used an opening provided by Linvala to heed the call of the remains of the angel in the halo she wore. She took the halo off and threw it at Nahiri, force-disconnecting her from the overstressed lithoform core. That shattered, and the entire skyclave started collapsing immediately. The last they saw of Nahiri was her looking at her arms in horror while wearing the halo as the skyclave collapsed. So 'purified' phyrexians are probably going to be a thing in future sets. Survivors of the oil who got away with their mind somehow intact and the oil-mind removed/seared/purified/sealed. Vraska, Jace, and Nahiri are probably coming back as planeswalkers.
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Mar 27, 2023 18:37
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Tism the Dragon Tickler posted:No because the drawback is an actual drawback and therefore it's not automatically better than all equivalent creature removal in black. I think you’re right, but interestingly enough the drawback of PtE basically doesn’t exist in some formats. Some CEDH lists run Path over Swords because giving a Naus deck life feels bad and a ton of lists can’t afford to run basics so it’s almost all upside, and I think basics in Modern might be at an all time low? The last time I played Murktide I was on zero basics. That might be because Path is sharing its slots with a lot of good options now, tho. It’s worth pointing out too that they’ve riffed on Swords (Lay down Arms and Solitude) more than they’ve riffed on Path in white. We’ve seen newer effects like Trophy and Boseiju give a land as compensation, but nothing I can think of in white since Path. fadam fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Mar 27, 2023 |
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Mar 27, 2023 18:38
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I bet Realmbreaker would've caused a lot of havok in some weird time wimey way even if it weren't paired with Phyrexian invasion. I bet connecting all the realms also empowered opposing forces, both in that after a plane battle is resolved, now the defenders can go bolster forces elsewhere, but also just opening up new channels of energy and mysterious whatever forces. They could probably do a lot of funky stuff with it. Phyrexian gods all over Theros now, but maybe some of the Theros magic is leaking all over and new gods are forming in other planes that never had them before.
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Mar 27, 2023 18:40
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