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Turns out that chrysalis meant chrysalis.
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Mar 29, 2023 18:49
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2x01: Points of Departure General Haig, huh? Definitely no historical parallels being made there. I don't remember where but I've seen the actor playing that general before, and I believe he was a villain.  (not a bad reaction) "Minbari souls are reborn in humans"? The entire revelation feels a bit....anti-climactic to me. I can't help but wonder if O'Hare's mental health issues forced them to show their cards a bit earlier than they expected. Intriguing, though.I like the different dynamic between the Captain and the Minbari. Is it just me or do a lot of the Minbari feel more assholish than they did in the first season (where they felt a bit more "Vulcan" and above it all)? I also still feel like there's more to Sinclair being transferred off the station than they're letting on, even if the Minbari trust him. I don't think it's any coincidence that this is all happening after Santiago was killed, since Senator whatshisname told Sinclair that he had made powerful enemies. I also suspect that Home Team or whatever the name of the xenophobes are involved somehow.
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Mar 30, 2023 02:19
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The actor who played General Hague was also on Deep Space Nine.
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Mar 30, 2023 02:24
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Oh yeah! He was (spoilered just in case) the rear end in a top hat admiral who was Sisko's immediate superior officer in Homefront. That's probably why I immediately distrusted him.
F_Shit_Fitzgerald fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Mar 30, 2023 |
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Mar 30, 2023 02:27
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*zot*
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Mar 30, 2023 09:00
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2x02: Revelations. I'm surprised that Sheridan went through with that prison transfer. Yeah, it's a presidential order but when you're in deep space like Babylon 5, unexplained "accidents" something tend to happen. This is not meant as a criticism of the writing (which I think is excellent so far this season), but the transfer being a ruse to let the guy go was telegraphed from a few miles away. If I were Sheridan I 100% would not trust the new president or his government. I also kinda saw Delenn becoming more human-like coming. It's great because the actress who played Delenn was a very attractive lady. The intrigue between Mollari, G'kar and the shadow aliens (?) is great; reminds me of the best of 'who is a hidden cylon?' content from BSG. You can feel that poo poo's about to hit the fan, and I'm here for it. F_Shit_Fitzgerald fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Mar 30, 2023 |
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Mar 30, 2023 21:41
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s4e05 The Long Night Oh cool, the shadows are now grey goo-ing planets too. Things are looking up! "by the end of this day the emperor will be dead or centauri prime will be"  edit: Find the other first ones. Are they finally going to pay off that weird giant alien ship in season 1? Jesus G'kar needs a break. edit 2: oh poo poo samson g'kar! edit 3: Dang, looks like Vir did have it in him. Once again the only worthwhile centauri on this show. "i concure, we've taken our revenge for the war" gently caress you old dude! Revenge for what?? the last time you genocide fucks ruined their planet? god I hate the centauri. That happened a lot faster than I thought though, I kind thought the episode would build up to that, but, boop just happened. edit 4: hey! Cranston makes an appearance! lol wait so that stuff wasn't grey goo, it was just a cloud of loving nukes? hahah Man, Vir! don't feel so down buddy, you're a hero (sort of, i mean it was just to save centauri...) edit 5: fuuuuck just straight up throwing them to the wolves as a ruse. I mean I get they need this plan to work but dang thats cold. edit 6: Man I don't like this resolution to narn. The centauri just leaving because Londo promised a favor, and now G'kar just preaching to let them be and embrace peace or some poo poo. Like, gently caress, just from a practical standpoint the centauri could return at any to finish them off, 3rd times the charm. They're left with a twice over decimated world by these maniacs of the galaxy and they're just supposed to let it be? The centauri need to be stopped from ever again being able to inflict their violence on another single world, they're too dangerous to just be allowed to do it again as soon as some new emperor says to. I really hope the show has more to say about this and they aren't just trying to push some weirdo message of 'rising above' the nazis that gust got done genocide a people for the 2nd time. Tom Guycot fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Apr 1, 2023 |
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Apr 1, 2023 00:57
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Today's gonna be a twofer because it's my birthday. To avoid cluttering up the thread with my posting, I'll just put it all here. 2x03: The Geometry of Shadows Interesting episode. I like Mollari but the end of the last season into this one is showing more of the dark side of his ambition. That he is "touched by darkness" is a good way to put it because absolute power does seem to be corrupting absolutely. I'm only familiar with Ansara through his work as Commander Kang, but he's always recognizable in whatever role he plays. I enjoyed his character here. At first, the Darzi thing felt like a rehash of "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield", but I really enjoyed the green sash that compared it to humans rallying around a flag. Yes, the "purple" and "green" thing is just as silly as rallying around a rag and a point on a map (not to get too C-Spam here). 2x04: A Distant Star. Not gonna lie, the "food plan" B plot for this episode was kinda dumb. I will say, though, that I've warmed up to Garibaldi a bit. Getting shot in the back has seemed to....humble him a bit, maybe? Franklin was a lot more "beep boop" in this episode than he's ever been, and it didn't really fit his character. The A plot was pretty interesting. I don't mean the Cortez so much as 'getting lost in hyperspace' and the return of the Shadow Aliens. I'm really looking forward to seeing where this plot leads. I could be reading too much here, but might there be a transgender interpretation of Delenn's transformation and the Minbari's distrust of her?
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Apr 1, 2023 01:57
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:Today's gonna be a twofer because it's my birthday. To avoid cluttering up the thread with my posting, I'll just put it all here. Please do not think you are cluttering. Ya'alls first time impressions is the entire point and purpose of this thread and you have lots of nerds eagerly reading every post.
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Apr 1, 2023 02:08
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:I could be reading too much here, but might there be a transgender interpretation of Delenn's transformation and the Minbari's distrust of her? That's extraordinarily perceptive of you. Spoilering this even though it's all stuff that never made it into the final show: In JMS's original plan, the character of Delenn would have started as a male and stayed so for all of Season 1, and then would have changed gender as well as species in the chrysalis. JMS only dropped the gender angle during production of The Gathering when he found the makeup and digital voice-deepening intended to make Mira Furlan seem male weren't up to snuff, but he kept the storylines more or less as written.
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Apr 1, 2023 02:35
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S4e6 Into the Fire disappointed the first one they found isn't that weird ship they showed in season 1, I'm still waiting for that call back to matter. I'm impressed again by what they're able to do on their budget for the mid 90's to have space combat shots, something they just couldn't have done with models edit: "the vorlons will also be at centauri, why aren't we there?" man why give a poo poo about those fuckers, you chose wisely to leave them (though i'm sure centauri will be just fine, the show seems to love these assholes). lol hearing the mimbari say "haul rear end" gives me the chuckles. edit 2: I'm still waiting for this first one dude to have some reveal and be like space satan. His story sounds so far fetched, and all this 'moving beyond the galaxy' feels like some straight up lord of the rings elves leaving on the boat stuff, lol. edit 3: lol Londo, you got played by the most obvious con. idiot. I guess this means he's probably going to kill morden at least, or get killed by morden, or they'll both kill each other (the best solution). Morden deserves a good killing though, so any outcome will be good edit 4: ah, he's setting out a nuke minefield. Isn't this exactly how he beat a mimbari ship in the human-mimbar war? That seems like an appropriate call back for sheridan edit 5: oh poo poo! That was not what I expected, they just loving nuked the shadows on their own island, shot his shadow guards, and yet didn't loving kill morden?!? just locked him up? edit 6: I'm still not sure how they're going to win this, what mcguffin they're going to pull it, because theres no way its just a straight up battle to the end edit 7: ahahahahahahaha this is a perfect callback and end for morden. good loving riddance, and Vir even gets to have a cheeky smile and wave. lol, wonderful edit 8: well poo poo it is that ship from season 1! glad that finally got paid off, at least sort of. Its pretty much just background noise. I can't express enough though how much I love these first one designs, they're all so varied in their ships, its some great visuals edit 9: Eat poo poo londo, if you cause the destruction of centauri you loving deserved it, every bit of it edit 10: oh loving BOOOOO, c'mon vorlons! don't leave londo hanging! do your jobs! edit 11: wow that was a really good conclusion to the war and the story. Satisfying, and different, and fascinating to see the shadows and vorlons as children with the first one guy. However... thats just it. This feels absolutely final, a conclusion to babylon 5, to the story of the series, and a good one, but... its still onyl the begining of season 4!! What in the loving happens in the remaining 2 seasons? This feels... like studio fucker, or condensed plot development because they didn't think they would get another season, or thought they would get canceled, or something. This is way too loving strange to just... have everything in the show wrapped up in a neat little bow 2 seasons before the end of the show?? This should be the conclusion to the series, i'm so confused! Tom Guycot fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Apr 1, 2023 |
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Apr 1, 2023 02:54
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Powered Descent posted:That's extraordinarily perceptive of you. Spoilering this even though it's all stuff that never made it into the final show: Just a heads up that this is a production note concerning season 1 that you can safely read if you're past it.
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Apr 1, 2023 02:55
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Tom Guycot posted:s4e05 The Long Night I was wondering what exactly made you call that Vir would be the Royal Assassin earlier. Tom Guycot posted:s4e05 The Long Night How much do you remember about the first season and how the Narn provoked the war in the first place? Prioritizing revenge never did them any favors.
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Apr 1, 2023 03:55
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SlothfulCobra posted:I was wondering what exactly made you call that Vir would be the Royal Assassin earlier. lol, well Londo brought Vir into his conspiracy, and I just thought the idea of Vir as an assassin was funny. I didn't think he'd actually pull the trigger so to speak, just help out putting plans in motion. SlothfulCobra posted:How much do you remember about the first season and how the Narn provoked the war in the first place? Prioritizing revenge never did them any favors. Sure the narn provoked the war, i mean after having their people enslaved, murdered, and planet stripped for 100 years!, and were frankly justified in wanting to take from the centauri. At this point though, obviously they're not in a position to invade centauri or anything and need to rebuild, but they need to start preparing for whatever the centauri do next, and frankly the centauri need to pay. Ideally I'd like to see the narn and all the non aligned world (who the centauri were also attacking), band together, defeat the centauri, dismantle their military and government, put all those on trial for war crimes that were involved in the centauri wars and occupations, and make sure they can never do what the centauri do to any more worlds. This idea they should just 'get over' genocide with no guarantee that it won't just happen again, and no one (ok, one single one is, and its a great moment, but its just one sacrificial individual, and its only done for Londo's petty revenge) is brought to justice is absurd, and beneath g'kar. Overall if i have one big criticism of this show so far, its that it is far far too kind to the centauri, and overlooks everything they've done and just treats them as kind of funny quirkly lil' folks or something. It doesn't seem to genuinely want to hold their feet to the fire for what they really have been this entire show. I hate to compare things to DS9, this show deserves better than to just get compared to a better known show, but DS9 never let the cardassians off the hook, or excused what their whole empire did to just treat them like the ferengi, as something just kind of quirky and light hearted.
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Apr 1, 2023 04:26
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The show isn't really making a statement on what's justified though. The point isn't that the Narn don't deserve vengeance upon the Centauri. If anything, I think your reactions make it pretty clear that the show demonstrates that they do and the show thinks so. The argument being made instead is that even if revenge is righteous, it is ultimately pointless and for the Narn to seek it will ultimately lead them to their own defeat. The Centauri deserve to have bad things happen to them. But the Narn people deserve better than to waste their time and resources doing bad things to the Centauri.
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Apr 1, 2023 04:50
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Tom Guycot posted:edit 7: ahahahahahahaha this is a perfect callback and end for morden. good loving riddance, and Vir even gets to have a cheeky smile and wave. lol, wonderful Legit one of my favorite moments in all of television.
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Apr 1, 2023 05:30
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Chevy Slyme posted:The show isn't really making a statement on what's justified though. I don't think its pointless, I think the centauri have to be dealt with or they'll just do it all again, in 10 years, 20, 100, they'll eventually start it up again. When the nazis had to retreat back into german borders, it would have been foolish to not press on, to just say "oh they have their own problems, we need to be above revenge", because its not even about revenge, its about the fact they're just going to do it again unless they are stopped and their system that enabled repeated genocides is dismantled. Did the victims of the nazi violence 'deserve better' than to waste time and resources hunting down nazis and hanging them? If you put the centauri into historical terms it become inexcusable to preach a 'rise above it' message. Leaving the centauri and their government, military officers, etc, in place is irresponsible for the galactic community, and until it is dealt with they'll all just have to wonder "whos next?".
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Apr 1, 2023 07:06
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Tom Guycot posted:I don't think its pointless, I think the centauri have to be dealt with or they'll just do it all again, in 10 years, 20, 100, they'll eventually start it up again. When the nazis had to retreat back into german borders, it would have been foolish to not press on, to just say "oh they have their own problems, we need to be above revenge", because its not even about revenge, its about the fact they're just going to do it again unless they are stopped and their system that enabled repeated genocides is dismantled. Did the victims of the nazi violence 'deserve better' than to waste time and resources hunting down nazis and hanging them? If you put the centauri into historical terms it become inexcusable to preach a 'rise above it' message. Leaving the centauri and their government, military officers, etc, in place is irresponsible for the galactic community, and until it is dealt with they'll all just have to wonder "whos next?". It's not just pointless from a philosophical standpoint, it's also impossible. The Narn had spent a long time building up their military capabilities prior to the outbreak of the latest war, they were even significant regional military armament producers and exporters, although I imagine more in bulk rather than relative quality. They were feeling confident and swinging their dick around in territorial disputes with the Centauri, so basically at the strongest they'd been at in their entire history, in terms of military preparation for a war with the Centauri. And they got absolutely demolished. The Shadows were a big factor in swinging the balance at the start (in terms of making the war no longer such a costly prospect for the Centauri), sure, but the point is that the war is over, it's all done -- the Narn military has been destroyed or dismantled, its military and political leaders killed, its home planet and industries reduced to rubble, and the Centauri left with their fleet in tact. What are they going to go after the Centauri with? Even if they 100% believe that the Centauri need to be exterminated for the protection of the Narn and all other species, who's going to do it? Nobody wanted to help Narn during the war even back when it seemed they might have had a chance to hold their own or maybe win. And that was before The Shadows/Vorlons, and before the Narn got absolutely crushed. Nobody is going to help them with a war, and they'll need generations to recover even if they did go on a war footing, so the only actually reasonable option is to do what G'Kar is doing -- keep your mouth shut and rebuild. Although I don't believe it's a fake, if you wanted to take out the Centauri in the long term, you'd STILL be doing what G'Kar is doing now, and instead of just believing sincerely in the message, you just use it as a guise until you build up strength. The comparison with WW2 and the march on Germany/Berlin absolutely doesn't fit because the German war machine had already been absolutely demolished by that point, and the allies were instead on the other end of the spectrum, to the extent where the relative disparity in military industrial output between the major countries involved is STILL mindboggling, 80 years after these events changed the face of the planet. the narn being comprehensively defeated, dismantled, and getting a reprieve 2 seconds from the hangman's noose is absolutely not a narn that should be flushed with hormones and yelling about invading Centauri Prime
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Apr 1, 2023 10:33
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boofhead posted:It's not just pointless from a philosophical standpoint, it's also impossible. The Narn had spent a long time building up their military capabilities prior to the outbreak of the latest war, they were even significant regional military armament producers and exporters, although I imagine more in bulk rather than relative quality. They were feeling confident and swinging their dick around in territorial disputes with the Centauri, so basically at the strongest they'd been at in their entire history, in terms of military preparation for a war with the Centauri. And they got absolutely demolished. The Shadows were a big factor in swinging the balance at the start (in terms of making the war no longer such a costly prospect for the Centauri), sure, but the point is that the war is over, it's all done -- the Narn military has been destroyed or dismantled, its military and political leaders killed, its home planet and industries reduced to rubble, and the Centauri left with their fleet in tact. What are they going to go after the Centauri with? Even if they 100% believe that the Centauri need to be exterminated for the protection of the Narn and all other species, who's going to do it? Nobody wanted to help Narn during the war even back when it seemed they might have had a chance to hold their own or maybe win. And that was before The Shadows/Vorlons, and before the Narn got absolutely crushed. Nobody is going to help them with a war, and they'll need generations to recover even if they did go on a war footing, so the only actually reasonable option is to do what G'Kar is doing -- keep your mouth shut and rebuild. Although I don't believe it's a fake, if you wanted to take out the Centauri in the long term, you'd STILL be doing what G'Kar is doing now, and instead of just believing sincerely in the message, you just use it as a guise until you build up strength. A better comparison instead of Nazis (  ) would be the colonial empires. And last time I checked, no-one invaded and dismantled the militaries of the UK, Spain, Portugal, France, the US, Russia and many others. Instead, the best people in the colonies could hope for was their enslavers just leaving, which they mostly did.So I feel any other end to the Narn/Centauri conflict would have felt fake, like wishful thinking. I'm actually kind of impressed the show went down a more realistic route, instead of just ending like a fairy tale.
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Apr 1, 2023 13:47
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Tom Guycot posted:I don't think its pointless, I think the centauri have to be dealt with or they'll just do it all again, in 10 years, 20, 100, they'll eventually start it up again. When the nazis had to retreat back into german borders, it would have been foolish to not press on, to just say "oh they have their own problems, we need to be above revenge", because its not even about revenge, its about the fact they're just going to do it again unless they are stopped and their system that enabled repeated genocides is dismantled. Did the victims of the nazi violence 'deserve better' than to waste time and resources hunting down nazis and hanging them? If you put the centauri into historical terms it become inexcusable to preach a 'rise above it' message. Leaving the centauri and their government, military officers, etc, in place is irresponsible for the galactic community, and until it is dealt with they'll all just have to wonder "whos next?". S4, E5 "The Long Night" spoilers: To quote G'Kar from the end of the episode: G'KAR: [The Centauri] are a lost people. They are to be pitied. They are already on a course for self-destruction, they do not need help from us. We must redress our wounds, help our people, rebuild our cities... G'LORN: No! We must strike back! The debate isn't "do we let the Centauri get away with this or do we destroy them?" It is "do we spend what resources we have to rebuild our homeworld, or do we spend them on our military so that we can avenge ourselves?" You suggest that "the centauri have to be dealt with or they'll just do it all again," but G'Kar doesn't argue they shouldn't be dealt with, he argues that the Narn don't need to get involved for them to destroy themselves. The Centauri have a massive fleet. The Narn have a few ships. Neither the Minbari nor Earth have shown any interest in helping the Narn attack the Centauri; Earth might well come in on the Centauri side if the Narn launched an attack. The Centauri were fighting most of their non-aligned neighbors, and were supporting the Shadows instead of fighting with Sheridan's fleet. This isn't a situation comparable to the Nazis, who at the end of that war had almost no nation supporting them (aside from Imperial Japan, which really couldn't do much to help). The Centauri voluntarily withdrew from the Narn homeworld. This isn't the Nazi's being driven back into the German borders. It might be Imperial Britain withdrawing from some of its colonies, on the way to internal economic collapse. The Narn didn't win the war, they lost, and they have no ability to demand the Centauri submit their leadership to trial (not even as much as the real International Criminal Court can demand Putin turn himself in). The striking thing about the Nuremburg trials is that a grand total of 24 people were put on trial. So even the example you cite from history wasn't a matter of the victorious allies "hunting down nazis and hanging them." It was trying the leadership after setting up a tribunal following victory in a war. There have certainly been trials held since Nuremburg for concentration camp guards and the like, but that hardly seems to fit the rhetoric you're deploying here, even if you aren't really serious that genocide is the only solution to the Centauri Problem.
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Apr 1, 2023 17:44
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I fully understand in their current state its physically impossible for the narn to do anything on their own until they've started to rebuild. They did it after the first genocide enough to be a threat to centauri, theres no reason they can't rebuild after the second genocide, even if it takes a while, and more than that in universe the Narn would be foolish to do otherwise, because how on earth could any narn not expect the space nazis to do a third genocide in a few years time, they've shown they have the desire, and the only reason the centauri even left was a handout from one of this biggest pieces of poo poo in the galaxy to g'kar as some kind of personal favor for help in a political assassination. Londo even said its going to anger the centauri high ranking folks and make him unpopular, showing that they have every desire to come back to narn and finish their genocide if they get their way. The non alligned worlds as well now have this great alliance they built, that includes all the narn ships remaining who fought in it, and the centauri also got done pillaging and attacking their worlds thanks to the shadows help. Well the centauri no longer have the shadows, and the non alligned worlds are closer than they've ever been. If they are not turning that alliance towards centauri to deal with them, its foolish and idiotic on their part. All it takes is the next centauri emperor to go on a rager again and everyone is a potential victim. i think the nazi analogies are good because, while not comparable to the conditions for how WW2 played out by the end, its absolutely true that just live and let live with the nazi party would have just meant guaranteed wars and genocides down the road by them. They had to be stopped whatever the cost. The nazis ended the war with their industry destroyed, but they started the war with massive amounts of war fighting capability, and it took an effort by allied parties to bring them to that final state. The non alligned worlds and narn have to be looking at the future, while they are now organized, for stopping the centauri, and dismantling their capacity to harm everyone in the galaxy again. Theres also the narrative reasons beyond all that. From everyones reactions it seems obvious that nothing will happen to the centauri, they are never brought to any justice, they never face a single consequence for the things they've done, they just get to skate on by and have some unrelated arcs in the coming 2 seasons. However realistic it might be that the monsters of history usually don't face justice, its not narratively satisfying and enjoyable to watch a show where "...and the nazis having got everything they wanted lived happily ever after, and their victims just had to sit and spin" is part of the story, in fact its down right off putting in a way that makes me want to fast forward through anything to do with the centauri from here on out if thats the story the show is just going to give us. I'm not amused with the centauri and where their little adventures take them in the future. I dont' find them fun, quirky, funny, or enjoyable to watch on screen, just downright reprehensible and that includes Londo. Any charm silly drunkard Londo had in season 1 is long gone and I'm not entertained by his antics or have much desire to see him resume them for another 2 seasons worth of episodes.
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Apr 1, 2023 21:56
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Tom Guycot posted:
i think you should definitely keep watching.
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Apr 1, 2023 22:21
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I think we're at the same point -- I've watched Season 4 Episode 6 (Into the Fire), but not yet 7. So the following has spoilers if you haven't watched s4e6 yet: Basically the most consistent underlying themes to the show, at least as I've noticed, deal with the moral and pragmatic necessity of rejecting the demand for absolutes and for tribalist identities. Earth and a lot of other species emerge into a big, complex universe and often, very powerful political/cultural parties within each species are basically overwhelmed and terrified by it, so they try to gain safety through power, via isolationism and military strength (and thus military adventurism), wanting to hide behind the illusion of stability that fascist ideology offers. Earth turns fascist and starts forming sketchy alliances and making morally indefensible decisions based solely on the desire for military strength, the Centauri are obsessed with their standing and superiority and the 'threat' of upstart races that they used to control (e.g. the Narn) so they become genocidal expansionist conquerers, the non-aligned worlds are constantly trying to keep out of everyone else's business because they're terrified of getting crushed by a more powerful neighbour, even the toga-toting philosopher-pacifist Minbari, for all their esteemed and superior rhetoric, constantly struggle with factional internal conflict and the temptation to transform their technological advancement into military suppression of any neighbours who dare to interfere with their business (it's barely a few decades since they almost wiped out humanity, if i remember my timelines correctly, and a lot of Minbari aren't so sure that wasn't a great idea that they should have followed through on). Then you have the long arching narrative of the shadows and vorlons, and their respective philosophies for how various species and civilisations might coexist in the same universe, as well as how they actually act when they feel they're getting pressured beyond their comfort point -- and how that all gets resolved at the end, leaving the stage to the younger races who will have to figure it out themselves. The whole show is about how people react when placed in situations where others have agency that conflicts with your own, and how difficult it can be to balance moral relativism with pragmatism and self-preservation. The culmination of the Vorlon/Shadows plotline ends on that explicitly -- you need dialogue, you need structures and sustained efforts to reach past the easy, primalistic "fight-or-flight" response and to work together to coexist peacefully and prosperously. The Narn going "of COURSE the Centauri are going to try to genocide us or someone else again, it's in their nature, they can't help it, they must be exterminated" is a fair thing to say in terms of what they've gone through and what recent history has shown, but it's directly counter to (I feel) the message that the show is trying to convey, which is that everyone has the potential to grow beyond this, and it's really the only way things are ever going to work out, so you need to try. And every time you get slapped down or things don't work out, you pick yourself up and try again. Because if you follow that logic of "some people/species are simply irredeemable and must be exterminated, once and for all" then what's so different between that and the logic that the fascist Earth government is using, where the universe is a zero-sum game and it's kill or be killed? They just jumped ahead a few pages but it's the same playbook. Not to say that the capacity for self-defence and self-preservation isn't an obligation, it is, and we've seen this when Babylon 5 put together a sort of 'doomed alliance' against overwhelming odds, but the way the conflict was resolved was not through force of arms but through dialogue and mutual understanding. Which, again.. the underlying theme of Babylon 5. I'm not saying you need to believe this personally, I'm just saying that it's consistent with the message of the show, in my opinion e: threw a paragraph break in there somewhere because that was a lot of rambling boofhead fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Apr 1, 2023 |
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Apr 1, 2023 22:50
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s4e7 Epiphanies Oh yeah... earth got taken over by a fascist coup. lol i forgot all this stuff was going on. I guess thats going to be the plot for the remaining show? It seems really weird, like REALLY weird for this show to still be going without the shadow war. edit: aww they're giving g'kar a robo eye? i was hoping we would get pirate g'kar for the rest of the series. Also lmao totally loving sleeper agent Geribaldi, just pop this balloon already! edit 2: "disney planet" lmao edit 3: at the end of last season sheridan gave garibaldi some instructions to follow to the letter, but... they never really said what that was. Was it just the nuke stealing, or is there still some ongoing thing thats part of everything going on with him now? edit 4: It really feels like all this telepath stuff was 100% planned for the original telepath and had to get rewritten with an added on telepath (yes i know she was in the pilot). Glad to see g'kar didn't do some dumb poo poo thanking of londo, i felt like that was coming. edit 5: Man Chekov is frustrating. He's so incredibly untrustworthy but they keep presenting him as trying to work with them and theres no way its not all part of some double, tripple, quadrupal, crossing poo poo, lol edit 6: Wait... why is B5 helping some earth security people who were trying to stop other people with earth ships from getting to B5? that whole thing confused me greatly. I had to rewind it but I still don't understand it. edit 7: I assume we're going to get to know these 'allies' of the shadows later, if they're not already the brain slug things from the future vision. Man, they really are trying to thread the needle of making Besker sympathetic and untrustworthy and evil edit 8: Yeah, man all this stuff with the telepath feels like it was designed for the original one, and how she was 'gifted' stuff from that friend of hers who evolved into energy. wait... was the earth ships the earth ships intercepted going to B5 who were saved by B5 some super secret false flag thing? I'm still confused. Oh poo poo! the brain slugs from the vision were the ones escaping planet evil. I kind of thought sheridan had cut the gordian knot of the war, and prevented that future vision, but things seem to keep playing out along those lines? I dunno. Overall, I dunno... like theres still stuff to do I guess with earth, but it feels all so low stakes and aimless now. It seems really really weird to not do this earth stuff while the shadow war was in the background and end the series with the shadow war. This just feels like incredibly strange pacing now, like a rudderless ship, but I guess we'll see where it goes. It feels like if the scouring of the shire was the whole final book of LOTR. Tom Guycot fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Apr 1, 2023 |
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Apr 1, 2023 23:00
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Tom Guycot posted:s4e7 Epiphanies Yeah. Any other show you can think of would have ended right at this point, or maybe had a partial episode for a bit of send-off or epilogue. But as you have seen, this isn't quite like any other show.
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Apr 1, 2023 23:27
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Yeah there's a lot to do with pragmatism and trying to be the best with what you got, and a lot of the questions are ones that we're still trying to answer in the real world, and there's a lot of problems in reality that don't really work out. It's a whole mess. So there's something very impressive about how much complex thoughts the show can inspire.Tom Guycot posted:s4e7 Epiphanies Yeah it weren't easy to thread those two overarching plots together, so they kinda...didn't.
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Apr 1, 2023 23:27
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sebmojo posted:i think you should definitely keep watching.
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Apr 2, 2023 00:10
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It is difficult to address your concerns in the spoiler free thread butsebmojo posted:i think you should definitely keep watching.
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Apr 2, 2023 00:26
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i guess part of it is just that it feels like the show is over. Like this is all the epilogue and nothing really more of any consequence or development can happen. I know there has to be enough going on fill another nearly 2 seasons, but it just feels over.
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Apr 2, 2023 00:37
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Tom Guycot posted:i guess part of it is just that it feels like the show is over. Like this is all the epilogue and nothing really more of any consequence or development can happen. I know there has to be enough going on fill another nearly 2 seasons, but it just feels over. I had the same feeling at that point too.
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Apr 2, 2023 00:38
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Tom Guycot posted:i guess part of it is just that it feels like the show is over. Like this is all the epilogue and nothing really more of any consequence or development can happen. I know there has to be enough going on fill another nearly 2 seasons, but it just feels over. I, too, had that same feeling which is why the next leg is still interesting from a lot of perspectives.
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Apr 2, 2023 00:48
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s4e8 the illusion of truth The shocking truth comes out! 
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Apr 2, 2023 02:51
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s4e9 attonement While that mostly felt like a filler episode, delenn being a descendant of sinclair is some fun time travel fuckery
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Apr 2, 2023 03:40
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Tom Guycot posted:s4e8 the illusion of truth the bit where it cuts back to them watching it is great
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Apr 2, 2023 04:30
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s4e10 racing mars I'm starting to suspect all the weird geribaldi stuff was to set him up undercover to infiltrate earth spy folks or something, after seeing him being approached by shady characters. Maybe all the weird brainwashing stuff was to get past psy corps? That would make sense. Sheridan seems in private though unaware of geribaldi's attitude, but still, before he left for pizza-doom he gave geribaldi instructions to follow without question, and so far that hasn't come up. I feel like it has to be part of this going on. So the lil' shadow buddies are infiltrating earth too? I'm not sure what they're up to with the shadows gone and the war over. Are they just going Dnyarri to take over the galaxy? That feels thin after the shadow war. Honestly everything is still feeling really thin and kinda aimless since then. I'm having a hard time feeling as involved in some new evil aliens.
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Apr 2, 2023 05:06
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s4e11 Lines of communication I do like how consistently Delenn just becomes a vicious badass when the need arises. These Drakhs though... I dunno, its an interesting enough effect, but overall, between the brain slugs and now these guys, its all feeling a big SG1 final seasons, where the plot is wrapped up and second rate new bad guys pop up that just don't feel worth the time. Maybe that will change, we'll see I guess. It just feels like the shadows should still be around as a villain during all this. Its so odd. I'm disappointed to see the mimbari are falling into civil war and strife, being torn apart like everyone else in the galaxy. I thought with that episode of the warrior dude coming around to the ranger dude, they would be subverting that and showing the mimbari weren't going to fall apart, but I guess not. Kinda sucks. s4e12 Conflicts of interest (boy I really had nothing better to do tonight than binge this, lol) There has to be some secret agent, total recall poo poo going on with geribaldi. I mean obviously theres some brainwashing programming going on, but I think the fact we're lead to believe he's being manipulated for evil purposes, is why its going to turn out this was part of sheridan's plan and the brainwashing was some poo poo to get past psychics. Now we got a psychic plague? Are the psychics also going to be a weapon against the brain slugs so they're trying to eliminate them? In any event, its still not shaking the 'out of steam late season sg1' vibes, which is a shame. I still like all the characters, i'm still interested to see what happens with earth and all that but... none of it feels urgent or particularly captivating now. Like you've finished the campaign story of an open world RPG but elect to keep playing to finish up side quests you missed earlier.
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Apr 2, 2023 07:22
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CainFortea posted:Legit one of my favorite moments in all of television. I mostly just lurk this thread, but wanted to respond and say, yeah, I agree. It might actually even be my favorite, or tied with the golfing scene in Stargate SG-1's "Window of Opportunity"
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Apr 2, 2023 07:51
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It's important to remember that the minbari were just as genocidal as the centauri up to the battle of the line, we just didn't see that bit.
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Apr 2, 2023 08:02
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Outside of a few (very notable) exceptions, I would disagree that Babylon 5 has "filler episodes." It's more accurate to say that some episodes are more stand-alone than others, but pretty much every single episode offers something new to the mythos of the universe.
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Apr 2, 2023 08:05
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SourKraut posted:I mostly just lurk this thread, but wanted to respond and say, yeah, I agree. It might actually even be my favorite, or tied with the golfing scene in Stargate SG-1's "Window of Opportunity" That's funny, but it's only the third funniest thing in SG-1 IMO. The top two being Teal'c saying "I have heard of a place where female warriors do battle in vats of Jell-O", and the episode where the team have had their metabolisms massively accelerated and they all order 5000-calorie meals but Carter asks for Diet Coke instead of regular. (She prefers the taste.) We now return you to your scheduled "KEEP WATCHING!"
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Apr 2, 2023 10:10
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