Ukraine War: Berth El Buk

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Zat: Jan 16, 2008

Turkish Parliament just approved Finland's NATO application. Now all that's left is Erdogan signing off on it and everyone moving some paperwork back and forth a bit, and Finland could be a NATO member within a few days.

Zat fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Mar 30, 2023

# ? Mar 30, 2023 22:01

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# ? May 23, 2024 23:31

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:

Russia's Theft of Ukraines Assets

quote:

At least one of them, the meat packing plant itself, was re-registered to a Russian owner.

Former employees of the plant say that �Chechen gunmen� entered its premises in May. A month later, the Ukrainian intelligence reported that the occupation authorities had modified the enterprise to be a morgue.

Russian problems require Russian solutions

# ? Mar 30, 2023 22:14

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

This is the story of Ivan Rossomakhin, a Wagner fighter and convicted murderer who did what you'd expect a convicted murderer in Wagner to do whilst on leave:

https://twitter.com/WhereisRussia/status/1641381002881761281?s=20

https://twitter.com/WhereisRussia/status/1641381009345200128?s=20

Now...how many times is this being repeated across Russia, not just for Wagners but for ordinary PTSD traumatized mobiks?

# ? Mar 30, 2023 22:55

zone: Dec 6, 2016

HonorableTB posted:

This is the story of Ivan Rossomakhin, a Wagner fighter and convicted murderer who did what you'd expect a convicted murderer in Wagner to do whilst on leave:

https://twitter.com/WhereisRussia/status/1641381002881761281?s=20

https://twitter.com/WhereisRussia/status/1641381009345200128?s=20

Now...how many times is this being repeated across Russia, not just for Wagners but for ordinary PTSD traumatized mobiks?

Given that around September last year the crime rate had increased in Moscow alone by 200% and up to 600% in places like Tula, I don't think it got anything but worse in the months that followed.

# ? Mar 30, 2023 22:58

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

Sorry for the double post but this was interesting enough to be worth a separated one.

A whistleblower has leaked thousands of pages of secret documents from a Moscow IT company and hey, have a bunch of information about the Russian cyberwar operations behind the scenes:

https://twitter.com/Info_Rosalie/status/1641465237911089153?s=20

https://www.derstandard.at/consent/tcf/story/2000145052847/massiver-leak-legt-erstmals-russlands-krieg-im-netz-offen

Translation posted:

Massive leak exposes Russia's war on the web for the first time

A whistleblower has leaked thousands of pages of secret documents from Moscow IT firm NTC Vulkan to the outside world. They offer deep insights into the inner workings of Russia's cyberwar for the first time

A few days after the war began, the whistleblower comes forward for the first time. "I am furious about the invasion of Ukraine and the terrible things that are happening there," he writes. Russian tanks are advancing towards Kiev, several cities are already in Russian hands, hundreds of missiles have already hit Ukrainian territory. The situation seems hopeless, hundreds of thousands of people are fleeing, and the Russian invaders are reportedly carrying even the parade uniforms for the expected victory parade in Kiev.

So, at this time, someone makes a momentous decision and transmits top-secret documents that offer the deepest insight into the Russian cyberwar to date. It's all about a stealth operation, Russia's war on the Net - and there's one company in particular, the Moscow-based Russian NTC Vulkan. "The company is doing wrong things, and the Russian government is cowardly and in the wrong," the whistleblower writes. People should know the dangers of this: "I hope you can use this information to show what is happening behind closed doors."

Whoever leaked these documents, however, put themselves in mortal danger. In Putin's Russia, there is no mercy for traitors - and the whistleblower will inevitably be considered one. "If the person is from Russia, hopefully she has left the country by now," says Russian intelligence expert Andrei Soldatov. "What she has done is extremely dangerous." This is another reason why the source is extremely cautious, leaving no name, no gender, no nationality. The company mentioned, NTC Vulkan, gives this research a name: the Vulkan Files.

The first message of the source had ended up in the anonymous whistleblower system of the "S�ddeutsche Zeitung". The journalist who contacted the whistleblower at that time is Hannes Munzinger, who today works for STANDARD, ZDF, "Spiegel" and the Swiss Tamedia Group. The Munich-based investigative start-up Paper Trail Media and "Der Spiegel" then coordinated a worldwide investigation in which eleven media houses from eight countries participated, including, in addition to STANDARD, the "Washington Post," "Le Monde" in France, ZDF and the British "Guardian.

Digital warfare tools

Thus, in the spring of 2022, what is probably the most detailed journalistic research on Russia's war on the Net to date begins - based on thousands of pages of secret documents that have been classified as authentic by several Western intelligence agencies. These documents and hundreds of emails - the Vulcan Files - reveal how Russia trains capabilities and deploys resources to target and spread misinformation, cut off entire regions from the Internet, and monitor millions of people.

One example from the leaked documents. Here, a subsystem for "preparation of special materials" is presented. Its task is the mass dissemination of false information. Further down, there are also concrete tips for tools to be used, but they are quite unexciting and include the likes of LibreOffice and also Adobe Photoshop.
Graphic: Vulkan files
The hackers from the Vulkan company are supposed to be helpful in all this. The leaked documents describe a number of software programs and concepts with names such as Fraction, Edison, Crystal-2V, Amezit or Scan-V. Among them are programs whose key components are considered by experts to be offensive - i.e. suitable for preparing cyberattacks. The Vulkan files date from 2016 to 2021. Whether the programs developed during this phase were ultimately used in part or in their entirety or ended up in drawers cannot be definitively determined. That they were not only conceived, but developed, tested and presented is clear from the leaked emails and statements of former Vulkan employees. In addition, IT experts with a focus on Russia have repeatedly observed events in recent years that can be reconciled with the deployment scenarios described in the documents.

In response to a detailed inquiry by the research consortium, Vulkan stated that it would only get in touch if the questions were of interest - this was obviously not the case by the time of going to press. The Kremlin did not want to comment at all.

In over 17,000 transfer transactions of the company NTC Vulkan, which were subsequently leaked to the research team, there is clear evidence of these programs. According to the documents, Vulkan received payments in installments amounting to several million euros, with the names of the programs clearly indicated in the subject line. The payments directed institutes closely connected with secret services and the military.

Surveillance and censorship
Anyone who works their way through the documents, which are written throughout in Russian and in a technical style, will recognize the image of a state that wants to arm itself massively in four areas. First, disinformation campaigns are to be facilitated by circumventing the security precautions of Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and the like in order to create vast numbers of fake profiles on social networks. Secondly, it aims to redirect the internet traffic of certain regions, thus censoring access to websites. A practice that is apparently already being observed in parts of Ukraine, especially in occupied Crimea - where NTC Vulkan maintains a branch - according to experts.

Third, Internet users are to be monitored, for example on Facebook and Twitter, but also on Russian networks such as Vkontakte and Odnoklassniki. It is "a system," the Vulkan files state, "to monitor and identify actions on social networks." A company insider describes in detail how data, primarily from social media, was collected, analyzed and visualized for this purpose - apparently on behalf of the FSB domestic intelligence service. According to the insider, this tool is aimed at people who are planning protests, for example, or who could reach a larger audience with critical reports and thus become dangerous to the Kremlin.

While these images are only mock-ups and not real targets, in combination with the ambitions to attack critical infrastructure, it is nevertheless striking that a nuclear power plant in Switzerland is taken as an example.
Graphic: Vulcan Files
Fourth - and this is probably the most dangerous part - the aim is to specifically detect vulnerabilities in the infrastructure of hostile states in order to facilitate state hacking attacks. For example, one diagram shows the M�hleberg nuclear power plant in Switzerland, which has since been decommissioned. It was at this nuclear plant, of all places, that experts had previously identified security vulnerabilities. On another occasion, the documents mention the Swiss Foreign Ministry, and a marker indicates the area where the Ukrainian embassy in Bern is based.

Attacks on infrastructure

It is overwhelmingly likely that all three targets are merely placeholders for targets that would have to be determined by higher authority. However, there is some evidence that they could be similar to the placeholder targets - in part because other places in the Vulcan files involve attacks on train lines, airports, and other key infrastructure.

"This is the architecture of Russia's new cyberwar," is how Ukrainian security researcher Marina Krotofil, to whom STANDARD submitted selected documents from the Vulkan files for review, describes the information from the leak.

In order to independently confirm the whistleblower's statements, documents, emails and wire transfer data, the Vulkan Files team contacted current and former Vulkan employees in numerous countries. In most cases, contact was made by phone or email, especially in Russia. However, the research team was also able to personally locate several former Vulkan employees who have since left the country. In a series of interviews, former Vulkan employees confirmed key statements from the documents. One ex-employee in particular spoke of close ties between the company and Russian intelligence services.

For several years now, experts have been watching Russia continue to arm itself for war on the Net. Moreover, Putin's government seems to know little inhibition about actually using its cyberweapons. Russian hackers are credited with a whole series of attacks: on the Winter Olympics in South Korea, for example, but also on the Austrian Foreign Ministry or the German Bundestag. "Russia is in our networks," the vice president of Germany's Federal Intelligence Service (BND) therefore recently warned.

Ukraine was targeted particularly frequently. Some of the attacks had dramatic consequences; on one occasion, even electricity plants had to be taken offline, data from the Ministry of Finance disappeared, and the networks of hundreds of government agencies, banks, airports and ministries were destroyed. Even the system for measuring radioactivity at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant was affected.

Then comes February 24, 2022: the invasion of Ukraine ordered by Putin.

From the beginning, Russia also attacks Ukraine digitally. U.S. cyber expert John Bateman calls it "the largest salvo of destructive cyberattacks the world has ever seen." In 2022 alone, the Ukrainian government counted hundreds of attacks on the energy, telecom and financial sectors, for example.

It is not always possible to tell exactly who the attackers are. Russia's cyber warriors sit in the domestic intelligence service FSB, the military intelligence service GRU, the foreign intelligence service SWR, but also in the presidential administration: the Kremlin. In addition, there are dozens of private companies to which the military and intelligence services outsource. It is a common model, similar to that in the USA.

Even whistleblower Edward Snowden - who made public the surveillance excesses of the U.S. wiretapping service NSA - was not, strictly speaking, an NSA whistleblower at all. Snowden worked for the private service provider Booz Allen Hamilton, which in turn worked for the NSA. Similarly, a number of private companies in Russia, such as NTC Vulkan, work for the state services. Several of these companies - including Vulkan's business partners - have been sanctioned by the US government, but Vulkan itself has not yet been sanctioned.

"Changing the world for the better"
Anyone setting out to find NTC Vulkan will find the company in a multi-story gray office building in the northeast of Moscow, in the Sokolinaja Gora district. A total of about 135 people work for the company, and in an Internet video Vulkan advertises for new employees, creating a modern atmosphere - young team, sports activities, sailing trips. The video is garnished with the claim "The need to change this world for the better."

Hardly anyone outside Putin's empire believes that Vulkan will actually make the world a better place. Although the company, founded in 2010 by two men with a conspicuous affinity for intelligence services, also serves clients who are rather unsuspicious from a military point of view, such as the Moscow Stock Exchange and Sberbank, its clients are often military units and research centers - the latter often serving as a cover for intelligence services in Russia. A European intelligence official specifies that Vulkan "enables the GRU in its cyber operations" and has been working with military intelligence since 2013.

Indeed, the Vulkan files also include email communications from several Vulkan employees about a working visit to Khimki, a suburb of Moscow. There they are supposed to install, test and present their own software. Experts rate the description of this software in the Vulkan files as "offensive." It is there, in Khimki, that the "Tower" is located, a skyscraper with a curved glass fa�ade that, according to the unanimous opinion of IT experts and intelligence agencies, houses the headquarters of one of the most dangerous cyber units working for the Russian military intelligence agency GRU: a group that has become known under the label Sandworm.

The trail to Sandworm
An anonymous Twitter account had already reported in 2020 about the connection of the Sandworm hackers to Vulkan - albeit without presenting any evidence. This is now provided for the first time by the Vulkan files: on a leaked software log, emblazoned in the upper left corner, is the "authorization" of a military representative of unit 74455 - the internal identification number of the Sandworm unit. "The number of such a unit is not put on a document just like that," says an employee of a Western intelligence agency in an interview with the STANDARD. As recently as January, security researchers discovered another cyberattack on Ukraine attributed to Sandworm aka GRU unit 74455.

Ukrainian government official in charge of cyber defense Viktor Shora confirmed in an interview with STANDARD that the Ukrainian government was keeping an eye on the company.

A number of major international IT security firms are also familiar with Vulkan, and some have even had the company on their radar since 2012. At the time, the company came to the attention of Google experts in connection with an attack by Cozy Bear, a hacking group that is believed to be part of the foreign intelligence agency SWR. Cozy Bear is one of two Russian groups that allegedly hacked into Hillary Clinton's Democratic Party network shortly before the 2016 U.S. presidential election - possibly helping Donald Trump win the election.

In the weeks leading up to the publication of the Vulkan files, anyone searching for former Vulkan people on popular professional platforms such as Linkedin could see a creeping decimation following the international research team's attempts to make contact: The company was gradually disappearing from more and more resumes of former employees.

The whistleblower who brought the Vulkan files out of hiding probably took a more far-reaching step. He - or she - broke off contact with journalists after some time - announcing that he would go into hiding. He would live "like a ghost." (Sophia Baumann, Christo Buschek, Maria Christoph, Max Hoppenstedt, Carina Huppertz, Dajana Kollig, Hannes Munzinger, Frederik Obermaier, Bastian Obermayer, Marcel Rosenbach, Hakan Tanriverdi, 30.3.2023)

# ? Mar 30, 2023 23:02

Saoshyant: Oct 26, 2010

Zat posted:

Turkish Parliament just approved Finland's NATO application. Now all that's left is Erdogan signing off on it and everyone moving some paperwork back and forth a bit, and Finland could be a NATO member within a few days.

What of Sweden? Didn't they apply together because it would be easier to sign them both at the same time?

# ? Mar 30, 2023 23:10

zone: Dec 6, 2016

Saoshyant posted:

What of Sweden? Didn't they apply together because it would be easier to sign them both at the same time?

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/nato-ratification-of-sweden-finland-can-be-at-different-stages-swedish-premier-says/2845121
Swedish premier said that it would be done on a different track if necessary, that's why Finland's application went through first

# ? Mar 30, 2023 23:14

Tai: Mar 8, 2006

Turkey wants a harder line with Kurdish ''Terrorists''

Hungary has some EU related beef before it signs off

# ? Mar 30, 2023 23:14

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

we itnerrupt this program to tell you TRUMP INDICTED, this could have monumental consequences for ukraine depending on how that shakes out

# ? Mar 30, 2023 23:19

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

HonorableTB posted:

we itnerrupt this program to tell you TRUMP INDICTED, this could have monumental consequences for ukraine depending on how that shakes out

Can you deport him to Russia to gently caress poo poo up there?

# ? Mar 30, 2023 23:25

Borscht: Jun 4, 2011

Switchblade 300 lite just dropped
https://youtu.be/rVFVEYkJwt0

# ? Mar 31, 2023 00:02

Philonius: Jun 12, 2005

HonorableTB posted:

we itnerrupt this program to tell you TRUMP INDICTED, this could have monumental consequences for ukraine depending on how that shakes out

All it takes is one MAGA fucknut on the jury, and he will walk.

# ? Mar 31, 2023 00:23

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

Trump should pull a snowden

im sure he'll love vkusno i tochka

# ? Mar 31, 2023 00:29

shadow puppet of a: Jan 10, 2007; NO TENGO SCORPIO

Philonius posted:

All it takes is one MAGA fucknut on the jury, and he will walk.

Never underestimate the power of a single Jeb!head.

# ? Mar 31, 2023 02:12

BrassRoots: Jan 9, 2012; You can play a shoestring if you're sincere - John Coltrane

HonorableTB posted:

we itnerrupt this program to tell you TRUMP INDICTED, this could have monumental consequences for ukraine depending on how that shakes out

I can only see zero impact on ukraine. Explain how because he aint the president no more.

OK, trump goes to jail. Now what? The goverment collapses? Or is it more likely that nothing changes.

# ? Mar 31, 2023 03:46

Runa: Feb 13, 2011

Yeah, no matter the outcome, that trial won't have an immediate direct impact on Ukraine's ability to push out the Russian invasion.

# ? Mar 31, 2023 03:57

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

BrassRoots posted:

I can only see zero impact on ukraine. Explain how because he aint the president no more.

OK, trump goes to jail. Now what? The goverment collapses? Or is it more likely that nothing changes.

The most obvious one is the chuds and GOP use this to get Trump back into the White House under the guise of his indictment being a political hit job. Polling since his indictment shows that Republicans and independent voters overwhelmingly think Trump's indictment is politically based and not legally based.

The biggest worry here is that Trump uses this to campaign, then gets off the charges (which is most likely), and then wins based on "witch hunt". It sounds crazy but that's a very likely outcome. There's nothing that keeps Trump from running even with these charges

For Ukraine, this would shake out to being a campaign issue in 2024. The campaign season has already started and youre going to see Ukraine aid used as a pivotal talking point by both sides. Ukraine's ultimate fate is extremely determinant on the US 2024 presidential cycle and you can't trust the GOP to continue supportу even if McConnell and DeSantis support it. Reminder that Trump blackmailed Ukraine over this aid and it resulted in his first impeachment

HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Mar 31, 2023

# ? Mar 31, 2023 04:04

Sweaty IT Nerd: Jul 13, 2007

Joe Biden's favorability is dropping.

We better tell Macedonia to hold off on those attack helicopters.

# ? Mar 31, 2023 04:07

Pot Smoke Phoenix: Aug 15, 2007; Smoke 'em if you gottem!; Dinosaur Gum

Make Trump pay for the Finnish wall

# ? Mar 31, 2023 04:07

Sweaty IT Nerd: Jul 13, 2007

Pot Smoke Phoenix posted:

Make Trump pay for the Finnish wall

He'll negotiate and get Russia to pay for it.

# ? Mar 31, 2023 04:13

Nooner: Mar 26, 2011; AN A+ OPSTER (:

Is Sweden already gotten the go ahead for NATO? I thought they and finland were doing a both or neither thing and turkey was saying no way Jose to sweden

# ? Mar 31, 2023 04:24

Telsa Cola: Aug 19, 2011; No... this is all wrong... this whole operation has just gone completely sidewaysface

Nooner posted:

Is Sweden already gotten the go ahead for NATO? I thought they and finland were doing a both or neither thing and turkey was saying no way Jose to sweden

Fairly certain that everyone quickly realized that was dumb and hoped everyone would forget

# ? Mar 31, 2023 04:25

Icochet: Mar 18, 2008; I have a very small TV. Don't make fun of it! Please don't shame it like that~; Grimey Drawer

Finland going solo was pretty spineless but just looking at a map Finland getting in does remove some of the urgency for Sweden

# ? Mar 31, 2023 04:51

zone: Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1641427560603983873
In more sadly predictable news, Russia is increasing repression on its own population.

# ? Mar 31, 2023 05:18

Potrzebie: Apr 6, 2010; I may not know what I'm talking about, but I sure love cops! ^^ Boy, but that boot is just yummy!; Lipstick Apathy

Nooner posted:

Is Sweden already gotten the go ahead for NATO? I thought they and finland were doing a both or neither thing and turkey was saying no way Jose to sweden

Erdo quickly realised that he could walk all over our current pathetic PM. He's using this to both look strong and manly to his voters and to force ever more absurd bends and outright violations of Swedish law in regards to giving him our Kurds to torture as he sees fit.

# ? Mar 31, 2023 06:21

frumpykvetchbot: Feb 20, 2004; PROGRESSIVE SCAN; Upset Trowel

Icochet posted:

Finland going solo was pretty spineless but just looking at a map Finland getting in does remove some of the urgency for Sweden

Sweden will get their turn when Erdogan is finally ousted.
And even while not in NATO, Sweden is going to be well protected by all their neighbors.
Still, in the near term I would hope Sweden maintains a reasonably alert posture on their Baltic shores.

# ? Mar 31, 2023 08:24

Drone_Fragger: May 9, 2007

Frankly im surprised erdogen is in power - he literally got elected by accepting support from building companies in return for loosening standards dramatically on earthquake protection. Resulting in the huge death roll recently because non of the earthquake proof buildings were actually earthquake proof.

# ? Mar 31, 2023 08:28

PC LOAD LETTER: May 23, 2005; WTF?!

From what others have said he has been very effective at solidifying his power base in key parts of the govt that would normally push back on him by putting incompetent but loyal cronies in power. Also he has a very strong backing from the rurals, religious, and conservatives in Turkey as a voting block.

# ? Mar 31, 2023 08:44

zone: Dec 6, 2016

Short Noel roundup from this morning
https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1641695380336254977
Another use of civilians and civilian infrastructure as human shields.

https://twitter.com/OSINTMISCIF/status/1641595928460009475
Seems like heavy snowfall might have paralyzed logistics lines leading out from Rostov into Ukraine. This is definitely bad news for the occupiers.

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1641697283510091776
Having run short of self propelled artillery, they're moving in what Rapiras they can find to the front. This is going to end poorly.

# ? Mar 31, 2023 08:58

bratwurst massage: Jan 27, 2018

Looks like they�ve upgraded the tires

# ? Mar 31, 2023 09:26

PC LOAD LETTER: May 23, 2005; WTF?!

Reading up a bit on them it looks like they're pretty obsolete, since the early 80's, as a anti tank gun.

But as mobile artillery they're perfectly fine for blowing up all kinds of things and not hard to move around with a 2 ton truck. So they're still very capable if the teams operating them are good at shoot n' scoot tactics.

The Ukrainians use them fairly often but with updated sights for night use. There are also some long-ish range laser guided ATGM's that can be fired from them as well. They're not so good for front hits on modern-ish tanks but side and rear hits can still be effective.

My half assed guess is they're running out of other 122mm guns and have lots of ammo laying around for these so to the front they go. Its not a good sign for Russia's capabilities to manufacture ammo but it also still means they can put lots of artillery downrange.

# ? Mar 31, 2023 10:16

Karate Bastard: Jul 31, 2007; Soiled Meat

Drone_Fragger posted:

Frankly im surprised erdogen is in power

Estrogen lol

I bet he would realy hate if people started calling him that lmao

# ? Mar 31, 2023 10:43

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

bratwurst massage posted:

Looks like they�ve upgraded the tires

love how trent telenko milkshake ducked by being a stop the stealer

wonder how he's taking this lol

# ? Mar 31, 2023 11:09

Shaman Tank Spec: Dec 26, 2003; *blep*

PC LOAD LETTER posted:

Reading up a bit on them it looks like they're pretty obsolete, since the early 80's, as a anti tank gun.

But as mobile artillery they're perfectly fine for blowing up all kinds of things and not hard to move around with a 2 ton truck. So they're still very capable if the teams operating them are good at shoot n' scoot tactics.

I mean yes, kind of. They're mainly designed for direct fire (as you'd expect from an anti-tank gun) and while they CAN be fired indirectly, they have a very limited range compared to dedicated field artillery (the listed maximum range is 8 kilometers, and I'd take even that with a grain of salt), and it's not going to be terribly accurate as an indirect fire weapon. It also fires in a very low arc, since it's a cannon and an anti-tank cannon at that[*].

I'm absolutely not saying these don't have a use. Blasting poo poo apart from 8 km out is useful, but also very dangerous when your enemy has very accurate, very quick firing and long ranged counter-battery options on the field. If they try to replace dedicated field artillery with stop gap solutions like this, they are hosed.

[*] some artillery pieces are technically designated as cannons despite having a much higher maximum elevation than you'd expect. For instance the Finnish 155K98 is technically classified as a cannon despite being able to achieve high elevations and fires in high arcs like a howitzer. Our official Finnish classification for it (and other guns like it) is "cannon howitzer".

E: Also if they truly are running out of 122mm and higher caliber artillery shells then loving mega lol. This was supposed to be the one thing they would never run out of. Artillery was the backbone of Soviet and Russian armies, and as an extension all the armies in the Soviet sphere of influence, like Finland. We have so many artillery shells stockpiled that we constantly have to keep firing large amounts of it to stop it from going bad in the depots, and we're FINLAND. It was nice to be able to get so much hands on experience during our active service, and even as reservists.

Shaman Tank Spec fucked around with this message at 11:48 on Mar 31, 2023

# ? Mar 31, 2023 11:40

PC LOAD LETTER: May 23, 2005; WTF?!

Shaman Tank Spec posted:

They're mainly designed for direct fire (as you'd expect from an anti-tank gun) and while they CAN be fired indirectly, they have a very limited range compared to dedicated field artillery (the listed maximum range is 8 kilometers, and I'd take even that with a grain of salt), and it's not going to be terribly accurate as an indirect fire weapon. It also fires in a very low arc, since it's a cannon and an anti-tank cannon at that

You're correct but they get around the mounts limitations by putting them on dirt ramps to get more elevation. How much more I have no clue.

Its half assed and inaccurate at range but apparently if you can mass up enough of them and are willing to blow lots of ammo it can work which sounds extremely on brand for the Russians.

Apparently the Russians treat them as disposable and don't bother to fix or maintain them. They just shoot the heck out of them in the field and when the barrel is run out they cut them up for scrap and have more shipped up from a depot somewhere.

The Ukrainians have been the ones using them with shoot n' scoot tactics as far as I can tell.

# ? Mar 31, 2023 12:04

zone: Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/Mike_Eckel/status/1641716943576088578
Russian General: We assure you you won't be sent to Ukraine to assault dug in defenders in piecemeal numbers.
Also Russian general: I lied!

# ? Mar 31, 2023 12:32

jaete: Jun 21, 2009; Nap Ghost

Icochet posted:

Finland going solo was pretty spineless but just looking at a map Finland getting in does remove some of the urgency for Sweden

Eh, in the official NATO process there isn't any "we'll join but only if this other country also joins" type of application. Finland & Sweden made their applications at the same time but they were separate applications. The Finnish president remarked at one point that it's kinda awkward, since if Turkey now approves Finland but not Sweden (as has happened), what is Finland meant to do, withdraw their application?

Anyway, just gotta wait for Erdogan now I guess... it's all on him imo

# ? Mar 31, 2023 13:07

Power Khan: Aug 20, 2011; by Fritz the Horse

zone posted:

https://twitter.com/Mike_Eckel/status/1641716943576088578
Russian General: We assure you you won't be sent to Ukraine to assault dug in defenders in piecemeal numbers.
Also Russian general: I lied!

Good luck at the frontline. Where you aren't listed as being at the frontline.

# ? Mar 31, 2023 13:32

Dwesa: Jul 19, 2016

They won't be deployed to Ukraine, they'll just mysteriously vanish one day.

Also, this Russian propagandist likely actually believes that "meanwhile, Soviets just used a pencil!" Space Pen urban legend

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1641777045406400519

# ? Mar 31, 2023 13:36

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 23, 2024 23:31

Tai: Mar 8, 2006

lmao cope cope cope

# ? Mar 31, 2023 13:47

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