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Dr. Fraiser Chain
May 18, 2004

Redlining my shit posting machine


Why would they throw that at 25 and KEEP the 20% magic resistance which probably is the worst 25

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Geight
Aug 7, 2010

Oh, All-Knowing One, behold me!
They take awhile to sort out talents for the new heroes, imo. One of the reasons I'm never rushing to slam-pick em is the talents usually suck and there's no shard/scepter upgrade yet.

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009

It is really lame they don't ship 'em with Aghs upgrades. Can't imagine they're still trying to figure out what to implement for the hero.

I like that these changes are very much, "Play her as a carry dang it"

TOOT BOOT
May 25, 2010

Even when they try to make a carry they just end up making another offlaner.

We need another day or two to see how things shake out but she seems to be above a 50% winrate now.

sugar free jazz
Mar 5, 2008

Seems like an easy way to just make her gunslinger and carry role stronger earlier. Wouldn’t be surprised if both the 25 talents got really reworked in the near future

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

TOOT BOOT posted:

Even when they try to make a carry they just end up making another offlaner.

We need another day or two to see how things shake out but she seems to be above a 50% winrate now.

My radical opinion is that carries are a bad archetype and purposefully designing a “pure” carry is incredibly stupid. That envelope does not need to be pushed. The game does not need another AM, PA, or worse.

MK is/was great. Muerta seems like a continuance of that design philosophy.

Not flaming you, just using your commentary as a backboard.

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009

On the flip side, Int right clickers are cool and it's been ages since we got another "simple" right clicker

sugar free jazz
Mar 5, 2008

DNK posted:

My radical opinion is that carries are a bad archetype and purposefully designing a “pure” carry is incredibly stupid. That envelope does not need to be pushed. The game does not need another AM, PA, or worse.

MK is/was great. Muerta seems like a continuance of that design philosophy.

Not flaming you, just using your commentary as a backboard.

why

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

Because the role itself is the bullied wimp of the team. The archetypical carry — the most carry of carries — is what every bad ability draft player picks: three passives and a single good farming skill. Those heroes are dumb and bad.

I’m not saying that heroes being played as a carry is bad, I’m saying that designing a hero to fit the role of “carry” is bad because the role itself is the weakest / least impactful / most team-reliant of all of the roles.

Tom Clancy is Dead
Jul 13, 2011

Nerfing Q and (very slightly) W while buffing E and R pushes Muerta in a carry direction. The BAT change is also effectively a buff to both E and R.

sugar free jazz
Mar 5, 2008

DNK posted:

Because the role itself is the bullied wimp of the team. The archetypical carry — the most carry of carries — is what every bad ability draft player picks: three passives and a single good farming skill. Those heroes are dumb and bad.

I’m not saying that heroes being played as a carry is bad, I’m saying that designing a hero to fit the role of “carry” is bad because the role itself is the weakest / least impactful / most team-reliant of all of the roles.

team reliant roles are fine and its good that there are heroes that need the team to make space, because then making space becomes a viable strategy

she has a single passive

Tiger Millionaire
Jan 25, 2014

He'll eat your kids and fire your parents!
Don't be hating on my boy wraith/skeleton king and his 1.5 actives

Geight
Aug 7, 2010

Oh, All-Knowing One, behold me!
It's kind of a bummer that witchblade seems pretty good on muerta but upgrading it to brooch doesn't seem correct

TOOT BOOT
May 25, 2010

The 25% level 25 Magic Resist Talent on Muerta might be additive. I had Bloodthorn and a Pipe and I took that talent and had like 76% magic resist.

I was pos 4 and wasn't really having any issue getting kills and they had a mid Ogre and an AA so I took it for the hell of it.

Ojetor
Aug 4, 2010

Return of the Sensei

I've still been crushing with Muerta 4 even after the Dead Shot nerf, so I'm not sure they've succeeded yet at making her a dedicated carry.

TOOT BOOT posted:

The 25% level 25 Magic Resist Talent on Muerta might be additive. I had Bloodthorn and a Pipe and I took that talent and had like 76% magic resist.

I was pos 4 and wasn't really having any issue getting kills and they had a mid Ogre and an AA so I took it for the hell of it.

Nah, that total sounds about right for regular MR stacking.

Base resist 25%
Talent 25%
Bloodthorn 25%
Pipe 30%
Pipe aura 15%

.75 * .75 * .75 * .7 * .85 = 0.251

Even with all the obtuseness in Dota I don't think Valve would do something like intentionally add a totally random source of MR that is additive without noting it explicitly. If it was additive I'd assume it was a bug.

Mr.Acula
May 10, 2009

Billions and billions of fat clouds

whats a good way to convince an irl friend of mine that tags along sometimes that maybe rushing veil on jakiro absolutely every single game isnt the best strategy?

or maybe im the idiot thats missing something?

Ojetor
Aug 4, 2010

Return of the Sensei

Mr.Acula posted:

whats a good way to convince an irl friend of mine that tags along sometimes that maybe rushing veil on jakiro absolutely every single game isnt the best strategy?

or maybe im the idiot thats missing something?

convince him to rush aghs instead then he doesn't need veil anymore since macropyre becomes pure damage :dota101:

Dr. Fraiser Chain
May 18, 2004

Redlining my shit posting machine


I don't super hate it since it's such an easy item to build with some team utility. It's ring of bas, crown, and a recipe. The ring of bas can be a great lane item if your partner needs the mana. It's not much $$ and it boosts your team. It is cheaper than force, glimmer, and Euls. Now, it's a good idea to be able to read the game and pivot into the utility your team needs like if you barely have any magic damage on the team.

(I'd personally go force or Euls, but if my team was big all magic damage why not)

TheFlyingLlama
Jan 2, 2013

You really think someone would do that? Just go on the internet and be a llama?



kinda depends tbh. 4 or 5 jakiro, and when he rushes it when does he get it? 4 can pretty much always justify it but on 5 it probably pushes arcanes/any defensive utility to like, 18 minutes in optimistically.


there are a lot of games I wouldn't mind it, but sometimes a team just needs a euls/force staff

JollyBoyJohn
Feb 13, 2019

For Real!
my herald buddy mains 5 Jakiro and rushes headdress into urn into euls every single game

armpit_enjoyer
Jan 25, 2023

my god. it's full of posts
Convince him to rush euls so he can hit an ice path more than once every week!

Plank Walker
Aug 11, 2005
ice path is for dewarding, convince him to go force staff every game and convince your 3 to take a stun

Geight
Aug 7, 2010

Oh, All-Knowing One, behold me!
Even with the regen nerf I don't ever feel like I should buy starting basi/headdress over 3 or 4 mangoes

armpit_enjoyer
Jan 25, 2023

my god. it's full of posts

Geight posted:

Even with the regen nerf I don't ever feel like I should buy starting basi/headdress over 3 or 4 mangoes

Speaking of just loading up on mangoes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6ZASVXWd00

He truly was ahead of his time.

Geight
Aug 7, 2010

Oh, All-Knowing One, behold me!
I know we all wanted a real patch but honestly this one has been pretty funny with like 3-4 people every game desperately trying to land meaty hammers.

Nfcknblvbl
Jul 15, 2002

If only Tinker's rearm worked on meme hammer :(

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009

Geight posted:

I know we all wanted a real patch but honestly this one has been pretty funny with like 3-4 people every game desperately trying to land meaty hammers.

Did they say when it is? I can't find the announcement, IIRC it was merely a vague like "Early April" or something, yea?

TOOT BOOT
May 25, 2010

They said late April but the Berlin Major is April 26th-May 7th so perhaps after that is more likely.

ItohRespectArmy
Sep 11, 2019

Cutest In The World, Six Time DDT Ironheavymetalweight champion, Two Time International Princess champion, winner of two tournaments, a Princess Tag Team champion, And a pretty good singer too!
"When I was an idol, I felt nothing every day but now that I'm a pro wrestler I'm in pain constantly!"

i hope they drop it on april 25th

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009

I hope it's sooner because I wants it. But that would be highly amusing and fun to watch pros figure it out "in real time"

ItohRespectArmy
Sep 11, 2019

Cutest In The World, Six Time DDT Ironheavymetalweight champion, Two Time International Princess champion, winner of two tournaments, a Princess Tag Team champion, And a pretty good singer too!
"When I was an idol, I felt nothing every day but now that I'm a pro wrestler I'm in pain constantly!"

its happened one or two times and its usually really loving cool

Geight
Aug 7, 2010

Oh, All-Knowing One, behold me!
Every now and then we should have a funny patch, and every now and then pros should have to figure out a major patch during a major. It's fun seeing who can read notes and who can't.

Nfcknblvbl
Jul 15, 2002




Edit 2:
Audio fixed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3I-flczZlc

Nfcknblvbl fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Apr 1, 2023

Geight
Aug 7, 2010

Oh, All-Knowing One, behold me!
Man I wish I could get the hero I want to play that consistently, and I don't even have anyone I'm super-good at :( How long have you been on the Tinker grind now?

Nfcknblvbl
Jul 15, 2002

2 years. The first hero that clicked for me is Timbersaw.

mistermojo
Jul 3, 2004

what I like to do when I have a good game on someone like pango is replay my best rolls from other peoples perspective. and when I have a bad game I uninstall and vow to never play dota again until I slink back to it the next day

Plank Walker
Aug 11, 2005
idk why no one in my games ever wants to take flicker, it's a free dispel every 4 seconds! nope better keep this dagger of ristul that i've never remembered to activate and also we have brigand's blade available which is the same thing but better

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009

I'll take the Dagger of Ristul over Brigand's Blade any day of the week [as a Primal Beast enthusiast] :colbert:

Copper For Lyfe
Jun 1, 2011

Plank Walker posted:

idk why no one in my games ever wants to take flicker, it's a free dispel every 4 seconds! nope better keep this dagger of ristul that i've never remembered to activate and also we have brigand's blade available which is the same thing but better

Yea flickers a really good item, but the only number it has attached to it is +35 move speed, which is also really good, but its not damage/attack speed/stats, so no one in pubs takes it.

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armpit_enjoyer
Jan 25, 2023

my god. it's full of posts


guys i found this amazing new strat. it's called 1. stay the gently caress back. 2. cast your fuckin spells

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