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bulletsponge13 posted:There are no combat reliable ×39 or 5.45 ARs- even the most reliable might not be viable- I have little doubt they are using at least some corrosive ammo, which AR/M16 do not like. Ah, that makes sense I suppose.
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Mar 30, 2023 20:44
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Power Khan posted:Javelin doing it's job deleting tanks. Some pretty spectacular explosions Absolutely wild footage, wonder when it was taken Why does he care about having to carry extra 5.56 mags, that's what squires are for!
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Mar 30, 2023 20:58
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Xakura posted:Absolutely wild footage, wonder when it was taken I think I've seen the sequence with the smoking BMP starting at 1:15. It's at least 2-3 weeks since then. There's no snow in the video.
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Mar 30, 2023 21:22
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That video definitely shows the need for APS on MBTs and IFVs
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Mar 30, 2023 22:21
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Haven't done one of these in a while cause I've been busy with other things and also there have been less press conferences addressing these. Could be control of messaging regarding Ukraine, but could also be that the DOD press folks have been busy with prepping for and responding to congressional budget and posture hearings. Not a ton, as this is a general briefing and not specific to Ukraine. https://www.defense.gov/News/Transc...press-briefing/ Highlights: -7,000 Ukrainians trained by USEUCOM since 2022. -65 Ukrainians finished Patriot training in the US and have returned to Europe. Donated Patriot units are not yet in Ukraine. -At the close of this month (March), 4,000+ soldiers done with training in Germany, and 1x M2 Bradley Brigade and 1x Stryker brigade will be done with combined arms training and be returned to Ukraine. -Training two motorized infantry battalions in Germany presently quote:GEN. RYDER: On the training front, since Russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine in 2022, U.S. European Command, U.S. Army Europe and Africa and Security Assistance Group Ukraine have trained more than 7,000 members of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Just this week, 65 Ukrainian air defenders completed Patriot training at Fort Sill, Oklahoma, and have now arrived back in Europe. They're integrating with other Ukrainian air defenders, along with donated Patriot air defense equipment from the United States, Germany and the Netherlands. Once in Ukraine, the Patriot air defense system will add to Ukraine's layered air defenses to provide protection and shield from Russia's wanton, brutal attacks on innocent civilians and civilian infrastructure.
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Mar 31, 2023 01:22
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New video from the "T" intersection of two UKR tanks engaging RU infantry at EXTREMELY close range featuring a near miss from some sort of anti armor munition.   Borscht fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Mar 31, 2023 |
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Mar 31, 2023 19:27
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Borscht posted:New video from the "T" intersection of two UKR tanks engaging RU infantry at EXTREMELY close range featuring a near miss from some sort of anti armor munition. Man they get close to that defensive tree line.
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Mar 31, 2023 19:39
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Borscht posted:New video from the "T" intersection of two UKR tanks engaging RU infantry at EXTREMELY close range featuring a near miss from some sort of anti armor munition. Text on the video says it was ATGM "Fagot": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K111_Fagot
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Mar 31, 2023 20:04
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The tank didn't see the white flag at 8:40
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Mar 31, 2023 20:05
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Power Khan posted:The tank didn't see the white flag at 8:40 That looks like a bit of tarp caught on a tree
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Mar 31, 2023 20:30
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So it looks like the Russians pushed the Ukrainians out of the position and then the Ukrainians sent in the tanks to take it back?
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Mar 31, 2023 20:35
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psydude posted:So it looks like the Russians pushed the Ukrainians out of the position and then the Ukrainians sent in the tanks to take it back? Could be they were supposed to support the trench against attack, but got there too late
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Mar 31, 2023 20:46
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Power Khan posted:The tank didn't see the white flag at 8:40 It was a piece of plastic caught on a jagged tree limb flapping in the breeze. It's a good 3 or 4 meters away from the trench.
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Mar 31, 2023 21:21
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steinrokkan posted:Could be they were supposed to support the trench against attack, but got there too late Trench warfare doctrine states you always counterattack with as much force as possible immediately after losing the position. You want to hit the new tenants while they are still dazed and exhausted, before they can fully occupy the position and retrofitting for the next fight. Not saying that's it, but something to always keep in mind. The armor might have been working like a Pink Team- 'white' element will observe, identify, and mark for the 'red' element. It's often used with aircraft, but the concept works. It also could have been a baited ambush- bleed them just enough they think they are winning, getting them to expend resources on the way in, and let them occupy. Then exploit the confusion before leadership kicks in. I don't know- I just like playing hypotheticals, and look for lessons. One thing is for sure- the RU squad had no leadership, no objective, and seemed to have no purpose beyond "Sit in hole. Die in hole."
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Mar 31, 2023 21:35
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I think there's the very presence of the drone is significant. The drone is following the action, not attempting to scout out enemy positions. Also, have y'all seen colors flying from Ukrainian tanks since the first few weeks of the war? The combat looks real but I think (with a lot of reservations) the footage captured was for the purpose of release. Also, did you guys notice the sound design when one of the trees splits a part?
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Mar 31, 2023 21:49
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I imagine drone duties are being differentiated between scouting, targeting, and C2 duties. By this point they probably have a very good sense of where a drone that's coordinating friendly forces should be positioned.
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Mar 31, 2023 21:56
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Borscht posted:I think there's the very presence of the drone is significant. The drone is following the action, not attempting to scout out enemy positions. Also, have y'all seen colors flying from Ukrainian tanks since the first few weeks of the war? The combat looks real but I think (with a lot of reservations) the footage captured was for the purpose of release. I've noticed flags in the more recent footage from UKR forces. I think they will be more prominent in the coming 6 weeks, as UKR begins the first Offensive of the Campaign Season.
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Mar 31, 2023 22:01
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Borscht posted:New video from the "T" intersection of two UKR tanks engaging RU infantry at EXTREMELY close range featuring a near miss from some sort of anti armor munition. Not easy to watch this one.
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Mar 31, 2023 22:02
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Might be good to get a thread update on how this rule is going to be treated: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4026124#post530610387
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Mar 31, 2023 22:17
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Well poo poo. I saw similar stuff at the same location unspoilered earlier this week so I thought it was fine. I'll delete the post if needed and eat a ban or probe or whatever if that's what's right. My bad
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Mar 31, 2023 22:25
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RE: Tank Armor Discussion. I was reading this thread on my work break, where I currently work in high grade ceramics for everything from consumer electronics to pacemakers to satellites, which replaced my job where I used to work on ceramics that went into things like tanks and armored vehicles. I'm going to be tip-toeing around NDAs, here. When most people imagine a kinetic, solid-shot armor-piercing round striking an armored vehicle, I assume they imagine something like a bullet striking a steel plate but on a larger scale, where the projectile either makes a hole and goes through, or bounces against the surface and ricochets away. This isn't exactly the case anymore. The way modern projectiles work encourages the projectile to dig in and break down as it penetrates. There's a channel on Youtube called SY Simulations that tries to accurately model how certain penetrators will perform against certain armor, and while the channel has flaws in its methodology, they provide a helpful visual tool as to how modern penetrators and even stuff like high explosive rounds work. That said, a modern sabot striking a T-54/55/62 or any basic steel armor is not going to look like a through-and-through hit where the sabot goes through the tank as one mass. It's going to hit the tank, start breaking down the second it hits the rolled steel, then do extremely grisly things to anyone and anything inside the tank, igniting anything it can strike, and striking with enough force to start making the structure of the vehicle itself start to buckle along the welds. Jimmy Smuts posted:Due the lack of an autoloader, are T-54/55s less explodey than T-72s and the like? Not really. The ammo in a T-54/55/62 is no more protected than the autoloader tanks against modern munitions. The T-62 even less so, as its main ammo is stored in the forward fuel tank next to the driver. The logic was that the diesel could douse or slow an ammunition fire, but that's never really been the case ever. They all even have ready racks along the turret wall for the loader, which creates an explosion hazard right next to everyone's head. Autoloaders aren't inherently volatile. In fact, if done right, they can be extremely safe. Israel in particular runs a version of an autoloader in their Merkavas that actually feeds a round to a human loader in an effort to maximize crew safety. The problem is that the T-64/72/80 autoloaders all store live ammo openly in the crew compartment, which is just unacceptable in this day and age. The US never even gave up on autoloaders. They test them every now and again, and even fielded one in the M1128. As for composite armor, a kinetic penetrator will ideally be sheared away as much as possible before it can score a penetrating strike. Simulations have shown that 105mm DU sabots will mostly go through any Soviet/Russian tanks frontally with some exceptions, while a few live fire tests in the '90s showed that less penetrators may have worked than we previously had thought. The Abrams/Leopard 2 120mm will have no problem. I can't speak for the Chal 2, but it seems fine going by the reported engagements they've had. I keep harping on this point in different threads, but modern Russia fields so many different types of its many subvariants of tanks that giving definite answers is hard. Even if you can say, "Well, what about a T-72B3?" And my response would be "How many did they make, how many are in Ukraine, and how many actually have working upgrade components in them?" Just check out the "Operators and variants" section of Wikipedia for the T-72 alone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-72_operators_and_variants and realize that a good number of those are serving on both sides in the war along with 62s, 64s, 80s, 90s, and a smattering of each of their subvariants. It's a nightmare.
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Mar 31, 2023 22:53
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No idea why they'd send that armor to clear that trench instead of two quadcopters with grenades. Best case scenario you've killed a squad of infantry, worst case you lose a fuckin tank. e: holy poo poo that ATGM shot. They got insanely lucky. e: any guesses why they're driving out into the field the original Russian attack came through instead of attacking the trench from what used to be its rear when it was Ukrainian-held? aphid_licker fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Mar 31, 2023 |
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Mar 31, 2023 22:56
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Borscht posted:Also, have y'all seen colors flying from Ukrainian tanks since the first few weeks of the war? I've seen various types of flags painted on, small banners hanging from random parts and yellow/blue ribbons painted on the barrel for quite some time now.
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Mar 31, 2023 23:15
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I wouldnt be suprised if varous different battlegroups have their own variation of FFID on top of the arm bands, very hard to identify through markings alone on an armoured vehicle that you and the enemy use, i found it difficult when doing force on force when its challenger two during exercise, usually if their pointing at you then thats a good indication that they are not friendly but you can quickly become disorientated buttoned down in an armoured vehicle. One think im very curious is the lack of coax MG being used on infantry, id be raking the gently caress out of that trench line after id disorientated with a HESH MonkeyLibFront fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Apr 1, 2023 |
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Apr 1, 2023 00:00
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Coquito Ergo Sum posted:Cool info aphid_licker posted:No idea why they'd send that armor to clear that trench instead of two quadcopters with grenades. Best case scenario you've killed a squad of infantry, worst case you lose a fuckin tank.  edit: I think now when I feel the sadbrains, I'll try to be thankful that I'm not those Russians in that trench Jimmy Smuts fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Apr 1, 2023 |
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Apr 1, 2023 00:37
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I haven't a clue if it was intentional- I highly doubt it was, but that round that fired and hit the ground immediately in front of the tank probably saved their lives by breaking visual, and causing the crew to cover.
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Apr 1, 2023 01:13
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Borscht posted:Well poo poo. I saw similar stuff at the same location unspoilered earlier this week so I thought it was fine. I'll delete the post if needed and eat a ban or probe or whatever if that's what's right. My bad On the topic of the drones, I'd guess that group has multiple on location and the one taking the footage is explicitly reserved for cinematography, rather than providing support to the engagement. But I'm talking completely out of my rear end, so who knows  .
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Apr 1, 2023 01:26
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There was a brief clip of a more useful angle on the trench, so there were at least two drones up.
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Apr 1, 2023 01:30
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I thought it was pretty impressive how much cover the trench provided while being repeatedly shot at by the tank's main gun.
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Apr 1, 2023 06:38
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russian tanks suck at depression
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Apr 1, 2023 06:50
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ded posted:russian tanks suck at depression Odd, since you'd think Russians would be experts at depression.
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Apr 1, 2023 07:05
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ded posted:russian tanks suck at depression more focused on repression
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Apr 1, 2023 07:17
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MonkeyLibFront posted:I wouldnt be suprised if varous different battlegroups have their own variation of FFID on top of the arm bands, very hard to identify through markings alone on an armoured vehicle that you and the enemy use, i found it difficult when doing force on force when its challenger two during exercise, usually if their pointing at you then thats a good indication that they are not friendly but you can quickly become disorientated buttoned down in an armoured vehicle. Traditionally, you always use the most casualty producing weapon first, provided situation dictates. You don't use a pistol when you have a grenade, you don't use a rifle when you have an MG type thing. It's efficient, and it produces a psychological effect. That's also assuming they kept the Coax- they are often removed and reutilized in better roles. It's common in smaller/poorer militaries. I personally would have chosen tanks to prove a point. Drones are a constant buzzing danger that drops fear and fragmentation, but it's a known thing. You have counter measures, ECW, and weapons to counter. If you don't have proper AT weapons, the tank is an impossible beast, unstoppable death. It tells them that they are unimportant, and that you have enough metal monsters to risk 2 to squad wipe. The response it provokes might be part of the planning, too. As always, just throwing poo poo at the wall.
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Apr 1, 2023 13:32
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I'm not a military guy and I'm not even sure of what that tank (72, yeah?) has but I was surprised by the lack of coax. Like bulletsponge13 said it may have been removed and repurposed but while watching that video I just wanted some surpassing fire. Again, I don't know about that situation and maybe a tank idling nearby is "surpressing" enough between firing. I just want to add that I certainly don't enjoy "bloodlust" or seeing people graphically killed but I do appreciate these on the ground combat videos. It reminds me of the humanity of it all. We can look at maps all day and also cheer when the good guys move an inch but sometimes I need and want the reminder that there are people really risking life and limb and sanity for their homeland. I think sometimes we view it as a chess game and choose to ignore the ugliness of it all. I understand it but I'm not sure it helps. I thought about those Russians in that trench. There was a human element. They are invaders and I have no pause in what their outcome was but there is more reality than just daily progress maps. I'm wording this poorly. I've both just woke up and am drunk. Anyhoo, don't probe me.
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Apr 1, 2023 14:05
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RoyKeen posted:I'm not a military guy and I'm not even sure of what that tank (72, yeah?) has but I was surprised by the lack of coax. Like bulletsponge13 said it may have been removed and repurposed but while watching that video I just wanted some surpassing fire. Again, I don't know about that situation and maybe a tank idling nearby is "surpressing" enough between firing. I've had nightmares of being those poor Mobiks since I was a kid. Many- most, in my experience- troops have the same kind of nightmares where you have an enemy coming, and nothing works. They just keep coming, absorbing every hit with no indication of effect. It doesn't stop, and you are left silently screaming in your somatic coma as you plan to fist fight the armored leviathan. In the best dreams, you wake up before the end. In most, you wake up, sweat streaming down a jailbroke lock jaw, as your nerves have a schizophrenic signals of the death you just experienced. It's fun. Wait, unfun. Unfun is the word. E- I'm in an unexpectedly weird mental state with the 20th anniversary of Iraq. bulletsponge13 fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Apr 1, 2023 |
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Apr 1, 2023 14:12
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RoyKeen posted:I'm not a military guy and I'm not even sure of what that tank (72, yeah?) has but I was surprised by the lack of coax. Like bulletsponge13 said it may have been removed and repurposed but while watching that video I just wanted some surpassing fire. Again, I don't know about that situation and maybe a tank idling nearby is "surpressing" enough between firing. A hostile tank pointing its main gun at you has a very suppressing effect on your morale.
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Apr 1, 2023 14:26
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A.o.D. posted:A hostile tank pointing its main gun at you has a very suppressing effect on your morale. I do completely get that but there is a possibility, as in this case, of having some AT capability and taking the tank out. I'm just a civilian who has never been in such a situation and I'm sure I'd poo poo my pants but the tank couldn't assume they'd all be like me and I just guessed there would be more offensive suppression. Again, I totally understand the situation is definitely dynamic and chaotic and I'm just sitting in my chair thousands of miles away. I'm not second guessing people on the ground I just was curious what was doctrine and what not. I don't even know if that tank has or had a machine gun or who would man it or if in this case it would even matter or be used. That's why I appreciate these kinds of videos. I'm honestly not into the tactics of it all. It helps me connect with the humans engaged in it all.
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Apr 1, 2023 15:16
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bulletsponge13 posted:
Man. Remember what our bar for "worst President" used to be?
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Apr 1, 2023 16:44
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RoyKeen posted:I just want to add that I certainly don't enjoy "bloodlust" or seeing people graphically killed but Why do people keep doing this
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Apr 1, 2023 16:50
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Herman Merman posted:Why do people keep doing this Doing what? Editing posts out of context?
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Apr 1, 2023 17:01
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