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Just negotiate and take whatever they offer. Doesn't sound like you need the offer sweetened.
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Mar 23, 2023 16:34
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Yeah, it's pretty competitive as far as my knowledge goes, and this company has a strong reputation in the community for being good to its employees and doesn't typically lowball them. I might accept as-is as this is already a good deal more than I thought it might be, or I might go for something relatively modest and see if they'll bump it up $2k to get to the nearest round number. Thanks for the feedback!
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Mar 23, 2023 16:39
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I'd probably accept the W myself
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Mar 23, 2023 16:47
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Sometimes you're handed a win and should take it. Congrats!
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Mar 23, 2023 17:03
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Thank you!
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Mar 23, 2023 17:05
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I mean that's 46% more cash compensation and probably another 20% comp with the benefits, PTO, etc. I'm not sure I would even try to negotiate when the offer out of the gate is north of a 65% bump in total compensation. Considering you've been a contractor for 11.5 years, I'd take the offer and get your foot in the door as an FTE. What does a "win" look like for you in this scenario?
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Mar 23, 2023 17:06
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I think you may have found one of those rare unicorn cases where negotiating is the wrong thing to do. Enjoy your giant windfall and be  as gently caress about it.
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Mar 23, 2023 17:41
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Accepted the offer and feeling good about it
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Mar 23, 2023 17:52
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How long to play multiple companies off against each other for? Received an OK offer from company A, told B and C pretty directly that I’d need offer £A+x to consider them - who knows if it’ll work but interview feedback has been amazing so I am confident I’m wanted by all 3. If I receive offer of £A+x from B and C, is it reasonable to go back to A and say they’d need to match the increase? Or is going back and forth like this taking the piss a bit? Offer A is a little less than I’d have liked but as noted in earlier posts it seems my current pay is already quite good so I don’t think I can expect as big a jump as I initially wanted. My own company now wants to discuss options with me - I know this thread is against accepting counter offers from current employers, but I’m in the UK and they can’t just fire me, so I wouldn’t worry about job security if I stayed. I actually like my current company, role, and coworkers. Edit: lol company C came back with improved offer over company A Lady Gaza fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Mar 23, 2023 |
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Mar 23, 2023 18:31
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If you're ok with a company ducking out of a bidding war then you can play them against each other, but I'd go into that with the full understanding they are probably going to balk pretty fast and move on to their next candidate.
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Mar 23, 2023 18:53
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I actually think I’m in a strong position regarding that too - B and C hadn’t even advertised roles so I think I’m the only candidate. People with my experience are rare so companies will basically always find somewhere to put them, there’s always a business need.
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Mar 23, 2023 19:08
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Lady Gaza posted:I actually think I’m in a strong position regarding that too - B and C hadn’t even advertised roles so I think I’m the only candidate. People with my experience are rare so companies will basically always find somewhere to put them, there’s always a business need. I wouldn't give a target to any company more than once. Take A and talk to B and C. Taking C and talking to A to close loop is fair game, but don't go back to C after they met your ask just because A raised up. You can, of course, continually play the companies off one another. But the further you play the game the more likely it is everyone takes their ball and goes home leaving you with nothing.
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Mar 23, 2023 20:11
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leper khan posted:I wouldn't give a target to any company more than once. Take A and talk to B and C. Taking C and talking to A to close loop is fair game, but don't go back to C after they met your ask just because A raised up. Sounds sensible - I may go back to A and say that C are giving me what I originally asked A for, but since C are already giving me a number I’m happy with I wouldn’t try to squeeze more from them.
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Mar 23, 2023 20:22
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spf3million posted:I've been negotiating with a late stage startup (Company B) for the last 3 months.... In hindsight, I probably did myself a negotiating disservice by not putting the mental effort in earlier on whether I'd actually accept the offer or not based on what I knew about the job/position/location/travel prior to receiving the formal offer. It took me a week of hard deliberation just to get to that point that I feel like I gave up some negotiating leverage where maybe I could have come back after a day or two and said I'd take it for +X%. But I honestly wasn't there yet in the decision process and it felt like I was giving up leverage just asking for an extension when the offer was set to expire. Long story short, do yourself a favor and try to go into a negotiation knowing what you need to take the offer.
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Mar 24, 2023 03:23
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I've been contracting for several years, as it pays about double from what I'd earn as an FTE (I'm in EU). I'm ok at what I do and never had issues finding new clients. There are a few brokers who list roles and take 3-5 euro per/hour and I usually just reach out whenever I see something interesting for the rate I'm willing to work for. Sometimes I mentioned I need x/hr more and it's either I get it or it's non negotiable in which I can either take it or walk away. Recently an old client reached out directly to me, saying they desperately need someone with my skill set. They were incredibly happy with the work I did and were almost begging me to come contract for them again. Apparently they need some skills that are hard to come by and not having them is hurting them pretty bad. When I worked for them I got paid slightly above my minimum rate (5%). With inflation and stuff I've upped my minimum rate by 10% so they'd be slightly below that. They already let me know a higher rate wouldn't be a problem at all. I currently get paid 5% over my new minimum rate. My minimum rate is not uncommon but on the higher end of the type of work I do. If I'm not picky and search extremely well I might get a role that pays 10-20% more but it usually comes with lovely working conditions. I could take jobs up to 30-35% below my minimum rate and break even, so there's plenty of margin. Now comes the million dollar question. How do I get the most out of this. I don't know what client budget is, but I'm pretty sure asking for 50% more will be too much. I'm pretty sure I could get 10-15% above my minimum rate but feel like 25% is too high. My BATNA is keep doing the current gig that pays 105% of what I want to make. It's ok, but not particularly challenging. Both roles have lots of freedom in terms of what/how I want to work.
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Mar 24, 2023 11:30
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LochNessMonster posted:I've been contracting for several years, as it pays about double from what I'd earn as an FTE (I'm in EU). I'm ok at what I do and never had issues finding new clients. There are a few brokers who list roles and take 3-5 euro per/hour and I usually just reach out whenever I see something interesting for the rate I'm willing to work for. Sometimes I mentioned I need x/hr more and it's either I get it or it's non negotiable in which I can either take it or walk away. Ask them to make an offer, unless your current minimum rate is known to them, in which case that will be a bit hard. Otherwise feel free to ask for 50%+ and wait for their comeback. It doesn't sound like they'd outright reject you, they'll counter.
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Mar 24, 2023 11:59
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Ehh, this is different than a job offer. He's offering a service, if you call a roofer they don't say "make me an offer", they give you a price and if you negotiate you go off that. I also assume you'd like to have this client as a repeat client of possible. Based on what you said, 125% is probably where'd I start (which is about 35% above what you last worked with them, right?), which is assuming you're not burning a bridge with your current gig. If you are or if that's a pain you could go higher.
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Mar 24, 2023 15:03
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I agree, as a service provider you set price. Why do you feel that 25% above your min rate is too high?
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Mar 24, 2023 15:11
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Lockback posted:Ehh, this is different than a job offer. He's offering a service, if you call a roofer they don't say "make me an offer", they give you a price and if you negotiate you go off that. I also assume you'd like to have this client as a repeat client of possible. I understood contracting as in leased employee, which isn't really different from a job offer, just with less commitment and protection.
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Mar 24, 2023 15:14
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SEKCobra posted:I understood contracting as in leased employee, which isn't really different from a job offer, just with less commitment and protection. you understood wrong since the OP is talkin bout rate setting and finding new clients
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Mar 24, 2023 15:19
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My gut says: Ask for the rate you want/feel comfortable they'd accept, but work in project completion bonuses/milestone payments. How long of a term committment they want is something I'd want to know up front too. Whether its short term 'oh god help help help - until we find more full time employees and train them - in 3-6 months' is wildly different than, well* (, leading into below.* I would also make a point to ask why the opening exists. Example: ""I really liked working with (person) and (person) when I was at your company last! what happened to them?" (why is there a job opening, and everything is on fire. was there a mas exodus, did everyone quit to take jobs remote. Or did they drive everyone away that used to be doing the work by witholding raises/bonuses/other stupid stuff. If they alienated the talent pool for a rare skillset that won't come back to work for them for boatmoney, thats a) your leverage and b) a 1-2 year engagement is a diffferent thing altogether. Tldr, find out the scope of the work and timelines involved and look at big picture.
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Mar 24, 2023 15:47
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It’s a bit of a mix between leased employee and smaller projects. I usually have 1 larger / longer term assignment and several smaller clients I consult for. This was one of the long term projects. The long term projects are billed at an hourly rate so no option to set goal based bonusses. The short term / less frequent clients usually pay a premium. I’ve worked for this client for about 2 years. I know them very well, both the people I’d be working with as well as the senior leadership I’d be reporting to. I still speak to some of the folks working there. I know why the role is open and why it’s nearly impossible to fill. I fit the profile they’re looking for, know the company and need very little time to get up to speed. They’ve been looking for the right person for almost half a year now and time is ticking as some of their high profile projects have deadlines that might become difficult to meet. I agree with the idea that I need to mention the rate and anchor as high as possible without being silly. Of course it’s up to them to either negotiate me down or decline the offer. Knowing their predicament I’m fairly certain they’ll counter and not walk away. The reason why I don’t want to name a silly number is because I don’t want to burn this relationship. As for the question why I think a 25% (~35ish compared to when I worked for them previously) is too high. I’m pretty well aware what the common rates are for the work I do. I know a lot of the cheap skate companies max out about 15-20% below my minimum rate. That’s fine, I don’t want those type of roles and refuse to race to the bottom. Most roles I take are at 0-10% of my rate and only very few ever offer more than that. I know the big 4 and other large consultancy companies do bill for 25% more than I do. So it’s not unheard of, but it’s not the rate freelancers get paid normally. That said, I currently have a long term project which is interesting enough (for some more time), pays well enough and has great work/life balance. I’m not sure if I even want to go back but if they pay top dollar it will make it a lot more attractive. I might know someone who knows what they’ve budgetted for the role and see how they react to the +25% price tag.
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Mar 24, 2023 23:07
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I mean, working for a good but not maxed number is also fine if it means having these guys on your good graces and keeping the relationship strong. I see no reason not to start at like +15 but go with what you know.
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Mar 24, 2023 23:18
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LochNessMonster posted:time is ticking as some of their high profile projects have deadlines that might become difficult to meet.
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Mar 24, 2023 23:54
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Arquinsiel posted:This is where you agree that your hourly rate is X until 40 billable hours a week, but your hourly rate after 40 hours is X+Y%, where "Y" is whatever makes you feel happiest. Either this or now you can have X plus completion bonuses, flagging the N major projects you get one for in advance.
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Mar 25, 2023 09:08
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Great ideas, I’ll be able to come up with something that’ll make both the client and me happy with this.
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Mar 25, 2023 11:05
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Hello there, I’m currently a construction supervisor. Due to the nature of prevailing wage, my hourly pay is quite high. My company wants to promote me to a salaried project manager position. They sent me an offer letter and the total compensation is somewhat lower than what I currently make a year, and the base wage is substantially lower. They’re offering me a lot of training and the opportunity to get on a career path that I’m sure will be rewarding in the long term, but it feels weird to be taking a pay cut for more responsibility. I would actually end up making less money annually than the guys I currently supervise. I’m wondering how to approach this. Oh I should probably mention: my current pay is way, way higher than industry standard. There is one other company I’m aware of that pays as much as I currently make at my level, out of many. pencilhands fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Mar 29, 2023 |
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Mar 29, 2023 21:32
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So my boss is a huge dick, but has been dangling a pretty juicy carrot in front of me for years now. He's old as gently caress and due to retire any day now (although he's said that for years, his health is actually starting to decline and I think he really does want to get out soon). It's a very small company, but we do pretty good billings. I know he and his wife (who does no work for the company other than picking the health plan) pull in more than double per year what I make, and I'm the highest-paid employee. He's more of an impediment to the business at this point because he demands control over everything and is a huge bottleneck. Anyway, another co-worker and I started talking succession with him, and he said he was open to a term sheet (nonbinding agreement in principle in preparation for a binding operating agreement). We're looking to take equity (hopefully an equal split) in exchange for a continued salary for him indefinitely for only doing minor sales work and meeting with important clients once in a blue moon, basically semi-retirement. This would also have a major improvement of quality of life of him giving up control of all silos of business outside of sales. Here's a major problem though: He's currently running off our operations manager. The guy has been with us for 6 months and is the best operations manager we've ever had. The boss is demeaning and humiliating him on a weekly basis, causing enormous fights in the office. The operations manager is the only one who has to work in-person with the boss, who treats him like his personal assistant. The rest of us are work from home. This would be the 4th operations manager the boss has chased off in the 5.5 years I've worked for him, and he treated them all like this. My co-worker and I have let the operations manager know about the succession talks and promised to negotiate in proxy for a few concessions for him. But I'm pretty sure even if we can get those concessions, he's going to walk rather than deal with the boss any longer. How do I negotiate to keep the short-term situation from exploding without harming the prospects of the long-term deal?
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Mar 31, 2023 21:31
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PostNouveau posted:So my boss is a huge dick, but has been dangling a pretty juicy carrot in front of me for years now. He's old as gently caress and due to retire any day now (although he's said that for years, his health is actually starting to decline and I think he really does want to get out soon). It's a very small company, but we do pretty good billings. I know he and his wife (who does no work for the company other than picking the health plan) pull in more than double per year what I make, and I'm the highest-paid employee. He's more of an impediment to the business at this point because he demands control over everything and is a huge bottleneck. Have you considered that a person who craves control will never cede it? 
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Mar 31, 2023 22:35
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Kinda seems like two separate issues without much interplay. Even if you were an owner, today, doesn't sound like that would give you much leverage to prevent him terrorizing the staff you want to keep.
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Mar 31, 2023 22:44
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Is there a reason you can’t just start your own business? From the way you describe the situation, I can’t imagine the old boomer boss dude ever giving up control. Also, you can’t give the ops manager anything other than empty promises. So it’s not really much of a negotiation.
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Mar 31, 2023 23:47
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Yeah, deep down I fear this
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Apr 1, 2023 02:40
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Dik Hz posted:Also, you can’t give the ops manager anything other than empty promises. So it’s not really much of a negotiation. Yeah, and without knowing this Boss I am guessing the thing he wants the most is a little backroom coup he can point to and use as an excuse why he has to crawl up everyone's rear end and never give in on anything.
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Apr 1, 2023 03:38
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I'm sorry to do this but can anyone please help me out here or am I on my own figuring this out lol
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Apr 1, 2023 03:53
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Why would you take a position with more responsibility and less pay? I don't think anyone has responded because it makes no sense.
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Apr 1, 2023 03:56
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pencilhands posted:Hello there, pencilhands posted:I'm sorry to do this but can anyone please help me out here or am I on my own figuring this out lol Take the lower total comp and try to limit any hours beyond 40/wk. Use that position as a step stone to better positions further on. Or talk to the competitor that can pay similar amounts for your current role. But it's not clear you really have the "don't take the promotion to lower pay and stay with the same org" option. Ask for 20-30% more. 
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Apr 1, 2023 03:58
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I just wanted to make sure my thoughts were in check with reality here, I understand it probably seems stupid to you guys but I have literally never negotiated a salary before. Thank you
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Apr 1, 2023 04:07
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Parallelwoody posted:Why would you take a position with more responsibility and less pay? I don't think anyone has responded because it makes no sense.
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Apr 1, 2023 04:08
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Arquinsiel posted:Yeah, this. I don't see why "do nothing" isn't the obvious choice. Can't they fire me for saying no?
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Apr 1, 2023 04:12
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Dik Hz posted:Is there a reason you can’t just start your own business? From the way you describe the situation, I can’t imagine the old boomer boss dude ever giving up control. They're all his clients. He makes all the sales and account connections. We may steal a few from him to strike out on our own with, but it would be a huge risk. It is very tempting though. There are only four people at the company, and the other two are my boss and this assistant he's hectoring to death. They would fall apart extremely quickly, and all those clients would be out an agency anyway. pencilhands posted:I'm sorry to do this but can anyone please help me out here or am I on my own figuring this out lol Sorry. I am currently being naive in my own career, so I hesitated to comment on yours, but maybe all these things are clearer from the outside and I shouldn't discount my instinct on your story. Is this a natural opening in the company? It's an established role like you know guys who do it now and work with them and generally what they do? Did someone quit or leave for a better job to open it up? Or is the company promoting you to a job that has the same basic functions as what you do but with a better title? Salaried workers don't get OT, so you want to be really sure there is a well-established path forward in your career from there before you agree to it.
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Apr 1, 2023 04:17
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