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Like, perhaps some added context about how I tend to view Netanyahu, not that anyone gives a poo poo about my opinion yeah?, basically the dude has a messianic complex, he's convinced he's the only real politik mastermind who sees the complexities of the middle eastern reality and thus that letting anyone other than him steer the ship is apriori a disaster, so really old bibs will stoop at nothing to hold on to power, and of course he will also be very quick to turn against his current political allies, he is also not governed at all by ideology, he used to brand himself a free market pro privatization kinda guy but now that he's basically in bed with the ultra orthodox he's more than willing to increase public expenditure on 'social charity' projects. So really, it's hard to believe that Netanyahu is enthused about the fact that he is currently propped to power by a Kahanist who has a 30 year long reputation of being a provocateur, Bibi was more than happy to see the extreme right fail to meet the voting threshold until he believed that they could be a useful tie breaker against the "No Bibi Please" ad-hoc coalition of anyone to the left of Likud, luckily for him Meretz and Avoda were dumb enough to burn 3 electoral seats by not merging before the elections and he actually got his tie breaker, but perhaps it was a bit too much and now dealing with Ben Gvir became more difficult, that drooling moron can now dismiss the Knesset all on his own, this is why Netanyahu is so eager to pull Ganz back into the fold but Ganz has already been burned before so this won't necessarily be simple, there are also some reports that the white house is in contact with Ganz and Lapid and that it was implied that they shouldn't form a coalition with Netanyahu, that this could also turn them into unwanted visitors in Washington, but these are rumors, obviously. Of course there's the whole other side with the Judicial reform and the "Kohelet Forum" which is a think tank in the neo-con style funded billionaires, but I don't know, I'm rambling, but I think they're another part of the story and another alliance Netanyahu is not incredibly comfortable with, maybe I'll write more about it a bit later if anyone cares.
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Mar 29, 2023 17:37
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So is he trying to turn the heat over to Gvir or something Because I don’t see how that would work
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Mar 29, 2023 17:44
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FlamingLiberal posted:So is he trying to turn the heat over to Gvir or something He’s kind of just making decisions on the fly right now
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Mar 29, 2023 17:48
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FlamingLiberal posted:So is he trying to turn the heat over to Gvir or something He needs Ben Gvir to fail miserably but set it up in a way that Ben Gvir and the Kahanists won't blame Netanyahu, and it's kind of shaping up like that, imo.
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Mar 29, 2023 17:52
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This dude asked ChatGPT to come up with an episode of southpark that is an analogy to the 'judicial reform' in Israel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD3U_vgtiKQ It actually got many things spot on, it's not bad.
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Mar 29, 2023 19:15
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From the pro-judidicial-reform demonstration yesterday - https://twitter.com/GoodbeerOssi/status/1641588393065820160/photo/1 Good look, good look.
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Mar 31, 2023 08:12
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emanresu tnuocca posted:From the pro-judidicial-reform demonstration yesterday - Love to see that the us is exporting secessionist symbols. But I'm also a bit confused as to how that translates to Israeli politics.
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Mar 31, 2023 14:27
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jiffypop45 posted:Love to see that the us is exporting secessionist symbols. It's also a segregationist symbol!
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Mar 31, 2023 14:33
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jiffypop45 posted:Love to see that the us is exporting secessionist symbols. I guess it means the same as it means anywhere in the world nowdays: "we are proudly racist"
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Mar 31, 2023 14:38
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jiffypop45 posted:Love to see that the us is exporting secessionist symbols. The same billionaires funding similar think tanks and propaganda orgs rallying a similar demographic by using similar rhetoric, the streams are bound to cross, in the context of Israeli politics these flags mean "I support Trump, and Netanyahu, gently caress Biden, gently caress all the leftists, and their transpeople, and we'll never let them take our guns (which we don't actually have)". There were also "gently caress Biden" flags over there, it's really. the same, exactly the same. the neo-con think tanks are the true globalists.
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Mar 31, 2023 14:39
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emanresu tnuocca posted:The same billionaires funding similar think tanks and propaganda orgs rallying a similar demographic by using similar rhetoric, the streams are bound to cross, in the context of Israeli politics these flags mean "I support Trump, and Netanyahu, gently caress Biden, gently caress all the leftists, and their transpeople, and we'll never let them take our guns (which we don't actually have)". Is there a lot of access to US far-right media in Israel? Like TV channels such as Fox News, Newsmax, that sort of thing? A big problem here in Canada is our right wing just consumes the hell out of that stuff thanks to cable/satellite packages which is how, besides their constant use of American symbols like Trump flags and Don't Tread on Me signs, you get poo poo like anti-Trudeau protestors ranting about their "first amendment rights" and the new far right premier of Alberta being shocked that she's not allowed to pardon all those anti-lockdown idiots because she assumed she had the same powers a US governor or President would have. Mr Luxury Yacht fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Mar 31, 2023 |
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Mar 31, 2023 14:57
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Some of this poo poo gets leaked out along the rest of cultural exports. We've got morons with confederate flags walking around here in Central Europe too, and had exactly the same anit-vaxx muh freedumbs protests. I guess you need a couple of extremely online weirdos to adapt the message a bit.
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Mar 31, 2023 15:05
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Yeah it's not the same networks we just got our own localized versions of them over the past decade, Edelson founded "Israel Hayom" which is like, a straight up Netanyahu mouthpiece, the guy who was the editor for the paper for like a decade is now a likud MK, and in recent years a new right wing news outlet was founded and heavily promoted by political actors, and there's a whole bunch of 'freelance pundits' who are basically regurgitating fox news drivel just in hebrew, Galit Distal our minister of propaganda was doing just that in recent years, talking about 'crazy progressives', trans people, the unspoken superiority of the white (jewish) man, all that crap, it was really so blatant as it happened everyone was too busy laughing at these people to notice that they were actually pulling it off, I guess, which is another point of sad similarity.
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Mar 31, 2023 15:09
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i googled how many americans are of israeli origin and the number was surprisingly small. however i'd have to guess that most americans who make aliyah are pretty right wing and probably bring that stuff with them.
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Mar 31, 2023 15:11
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lobster shirt posted:i googled how many americans are of israeli origin and the number was surprisingly small. however i'd have to guess that most americans who make aliyah are pretty right wing and probably bring that stuff with them. immigration tends to be lopsided the other way. there's no American Birthright, for instance
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Mar 31, 2023 15:16
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lobster shirt posted:i googled how many americans are of israeli origin and the number was surprisingly small. however i'd have to guess that most americans who make aliyah are pretty right wing and probably bring that stuff with them. My sister, who is to my left in many ways, did birthright. In fact a lot of diaspora Jews I know did it because it was cheap save aren't right wing.
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Mar 31, 2023 15:18
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jiffypop45 posted:Love to see that the us is exporting secessionist symbols. The Confederate flag is a symbol of an openly racist ethno-state that legally privileged one group over others. That's applicable to current Israeli politics. Politics becoming increasingly online (and increasingly global) has had a particularly large impact on the far right because far-right politics are so heavily influenced by well-funded propaganda networks and conspiracy theories. Both are well-suited to spreading across borders via social media, especially since a lot of people understand some English, so it's easy for English-language right-wing propaganda and narratives to be adopted by other countries.
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Mar 31, 2023 15:29
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The CSA flag gets used worldwide, I think the exact meaning of it tends to vary. The only use I was particularly familiar with before was by the right wing in Germany (because specifically nazi symbols are banned). Allegedly in some parts of the world it sometimes has different connotations, but I don't really know all the details. I can sort of believe that a lot of details would get scrambled by differences of local politics. https://www.businessinsider.com/why-is-the-confederate-flag-flown-outside-the-us-2015-6 I think the fact that America is such a prolific worldwide exporter of media makes a lot of our politics spill over across the world. There's not a whole lot I know of foreign influences percolating back over to America is the whole thing with Viktor Orban's political campaigning over in Hungary using George Soros as a scapegoat for all problems and dogwhistle for antisemitism. It also seems like the sheer amount of friction over the judicial reforms could provoke some kind of civil war, so it seems a bit apt.
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Mar 31, 2023 17:30
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HootTheOwl posted:My sister, who is to my left in many ways, did birthright. In fact a lot of diaspora Jews I know did it because it was cheap save aren't right wing. I signed up for one and backed out last minute after thinking about it for awhile and felt that I didn't have it in me. I make enough money that if I was going to go over there as a vacation I'd prefer it not be 100% "please make aliyah" marketing. I'm queer and reform anyway so I'm not really the person they want over there anyway based on previous posts in this thread. The politics were trending bad then and have only become worse so I feel 110% validated in that decision.
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Apr 1, 2023 00:16
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Don't they literally use brainwashing techniques like sleep deprivation and long hikes to wear you down and accept what they're telling you on Birthright? EDIT: aw man a mod closed that Israel protest thread in GBS, I really wanted to share that Confederate flag picture in there. Mister Speaker fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Apr 1, 2023 |
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Apr 1, 2023 02:18
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SlothfulCobra posted:The CSA flag gets used worldwide, I think the exact meaning of it tends to vary. The only use I was particularly familiar with before was by the right wing in Germany (because specifically nazi symbols are banned). Allegedly in some parts of the world it sometimes has different connotations, but I don't really know all the details. I can sort of believe that a lot of details would get scrambled by differences of local politics. I think in a lot of places it's like a Che Guevara shirt for the opposite flavour of dickhead. In both cases, you can safely assume that there's some level of sympathy toward the underlying cause as they understand it to be, but a paucity of understanding of any sort of details or nuance.
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Apr 1, 2023 03:11
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it's almost refreshing though. even if they're not aware of the specifics, it's still known as the "i'm a shithead" flag. there's no hemming and hawwing about heritage and states' rights like from the cowards in the US israel and western europe are both places where i've met "hell yeah i'm a racist" types whereas that's extremely rare here, where people are just walking Famous Atwater Quotes i say swears online fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Apr 1, 2023 |
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Apr 1, 2023 03:13
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PT6A posted:I think in a lot of places it's like a Che Guevara shirt for the opposite flavour of dickhead. In both cases, you can safely assume that there's some level of sympathy toward the underlying cause as they understand it to be, but a paucity of understanding of any sort of details or nuance. what did Che ever do that places him on the same category as the confederacy?
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Apr 1, 2023 04:04
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Whether he deserves the comparison I guess depends on your feelings on military tribunals and his adventures in Africa and Bolivia where there was much less public support for his bullshit, but the main thing is that t-shirts with his face are popular for people who want some kind of symbol of rebellion regardless of whether they have any connection to any of the ideological details he supported. Because some people don't really care much about the Confederacy or what it stood for and just use it as some kind of generic symbol of rebellion or anti-authority.
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Apr 1, 2023 15:43
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Putting Che in the same category as the Confederacy is the most "american liberal" thing Ive ever seen
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Apr 1, 2023 15:54
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Elias_Maluco posted:Putting Che in the same category as the Confederacy is the most "american liberal" thing Ive ever seen And completely misreading what the person said to score points on a lib is the most online thing I've ever seen.
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Apr 1, 2023 16:30
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SlothfulCobra posted:Whether he deserves the comparison I guess depends on your feelings on military tribunals and his adventures in Africa and Bolivia where there was much less public support for his bullshit, but the main thing is that t-shirts with his face are popular for people who want some kind of symbol of rebellion regardless of whether they have any connection to any of the ideological details he supported. Is he as bad as the Confederacy? Absolutely not, but he was absolutely a reckless idealist who participated in summary executions, ended up convincing himself that nuclear war would've in fact been revolutionary and good, before giving up on his responsibilities to go play solider across the world in a series of increasingly unsuccessful and pointless adventures that ultimately led to his death. He's a tragic figure in the classical sense, and for whatever good he accomplished (and there was definitely some), he ended up throwing it away, along with his life. He should be remembered as a cautionary tale as much or more than an inspiration, because he encapsulates so much of what can go wrong with revolutionary movements even in their moments of success. There are parts of his life I admire, there are certain views he held that I agree with, but he is no hero, and my point is that his iconography is used in as much ignorance as the stars and bars usually is (outside America) because the actual history is not well-understood. The stars and bars is used by racists, and Che's face is used by well-meaning idiots (and, full confession: I was one of them, at one time!), so I don't think there's an equivalence between the relative badness of the two groups, just the ignorance.
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Apr 1, 2023 17:57
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I'm far from an expert on anything but when I did my cursory reading of Che's activities I came to a somewhat different conclusion, but this is immaterial because no, people wearing Che shirts are completely different than people with confederacy flags, that's because one group of alleged idiots is as you guys said "well meaning" and the other well, isn't. People don't wear Che shirts to signify they're homophobes or that they support summary executions or whatever, Che never stood for those things as a popular symbol, he's a symbol of anti imperialism, socialism, revolution and other leftist ideals. now, what does the confederacy stand for? what are their ideals? why are we positing innocence and ignorance for people who carry a flag that always meant "white supremacy" and nothing else?
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Apr 1, 2023 18:41
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SlothfulCobra posted:Whether he deserves the comparison I guess depends on your feelings on military tribunals and his adventures in Africa and Bolivia where there was much less public support for his bullshit, but the main thing is that t-shirts with his face are popular for people who want some kind of symbol of rebellion regardless of whether they have any connection to any of the ideological details he supported. Putting Guevara's Bolivia adventure (a poorly-planned and unsuccessful attempt at starting an insurgency against actual, literal Nazi slavers) in anything approaching comparison to the American Confederacy is genuinely obscene, dude. Quit digging a hole for yourself.
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Apr 1, 2023 20:12
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Anyway they should just fly the Ulster flag to compete the circle.
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Apr 1, 2023 21:35
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The main point being that a lot of people who wear Guevara t-shirts don't really know any details about the guy much like how there are theoretically people who don't know details about the civil war with CSA flags. Although the Israeli right wing protestors are apparently making sure to clarify how much they are plugged into right wing American politics with less ambiguous flags. https://twitter.com/NTarnopolsky/status/1641477346178789376
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Apr 1, 2023 22:21
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SlothfulCobra posted:The main point being that a lot of people who wear Guevara t-shirts don't really know any details about the guy much like how there are theoretically people who don't know details about the civil war with CSA flags. Is the Israeli flag a nationalist symbol over there like it is in the US? Outside of Washington D.C., Capitol buildings, or historical areas people waving American flags around here tend to get side eyed as maga chuds.
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Apr 2, 2023 03:01
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it is literally a nationalist symbol, yes
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Apr 2, 2023 03:21
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I want to know more about the cookie poster
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Apr 2, 2023 03:52
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I'd argue there's a difference between national symbols and nationalist symbols and that the demonstrations in Israel are in a sense kind of about making the distinction between the two but honestly all national patriotism inevitably leads to nationalism and chauvinism to the point where if you're ok with the former you should know for a fact you'll eventually get people who demand the latter, that is one of the contradictions in the heart of the old 'jewish and democratic' oxymoron. so w/e?
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Apr 2, 2023 08:27
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Actually there was an interesting bit with the flag in these rounds of protests. Overusing the flag was definitely seen as a right-wing nationalistic thing, and because of that the protesters attempted to "reclaim" it and now the anti government flags are filled with Israeli flags. This is probably a response to the right saying: - The protests aren't about the judiciary, it's just left vs right again. - Furthermore, the left is unpatriotic. - There were Palestinian flags at some protests. The protesters are leftist, traitors, fifth columnists etc. etc. I think it's a pretty weaksauce approach to come and try to out-patriot the right, because I'm sure that the average protester is less chauvinistic on average so who are you fooling. Also it's exclusionary and generally gross. But then again I'm probably just in an anti-nationalistic bubble.
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Apr 2, 2023 10:27
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emanresu tnuocca posted:I'd argue there's a difference between national symbols and nationalist symbols and that the demonstrations in Israel are in a sense kind of about making the distinction between the two but honestly all national patriotism inevitably leads to nationalism and chauvinism to the point where if you're ok with the former you should know for a fact you'll eventually get people who demand the latter, that is one of the contradictions in the heart of the old 'jewish and democratic' oxymoron. so w/e? This is what I was getting at. Nationalist in the sense of "my country is the best and its needs (according to whoever is speaking anyway) outweigh the needs of everyone else" not national in the sense of "an eagle is a symbol of America" or "the menorah or magen david or blue/white is a symbol of Israel"
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Apr 2, 2023 20:40
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HootTheOwl posted:I want to know more about the cookie poster it's a picture of moshe "bogie/boogie" ya'alon with the caption "boogie monster" former likudnik and ex-defense minister under netanyahu, he did the unthinkable sin of agreeing with the protests
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Apr 3, 2023 20:42
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But the cookies.
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Apr 3, 2023 21:12
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Apr 4, 2023 02:02
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